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Nintendo software and hardware sales data from 1983 to present

Apologies for the short response (I'm on mobile and working) but my simplest response here would be... Please read the assasin's creed unity digital foundry thread. Or any recent digital foundry thread. Or any game reveal thread where the game doesn't look as good as infamous or something.
No problem for the short response.

Let me answer you with another scenario. Are you telling me PC gamers with their top of the line rigs that are used to play now above 1080p at 1440p or 4K, wont embrace VR because they'll need to drop the resolution and effects in the more demanding games?

Visual fidelity is pretty much relative. The sacrifices in fidelity will be made across all paltforms that support VR. It's the nature of the technology.

And in the end tit doesn't matter, the jump that the mayority of people will experience in inmersion will nullify the drop in image quality.
 

AniHawk

Member
Wii U is just a notch above Virtual Boy? Daaaaaammmmnnnn

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Where are the Zelda SS numbers from? I always see the ~3.6m number thrown around, but that's just from the first three months. Surely it's sold SOME copies the last three years??
 

TheMoon

Member
Where are the Zelda SS numbers from? I always see the ~3.6m number thrown around, but that's just from the first three months. Surely it's sold SOME copies the last three years??

we don't have more up-to-date numbers. nintendo sadly doesn't update all of their million sellers on the website, just the top 10 it seems. :/
 

Celine

Member
Where are the Zelda SS numbers from? I always see the ~3.6m number thrown around, but that's just from the first three months. Surely it's sold SOME copies the last three years??

For games released on DS, Wii, 3DS, WiiU their LTDs are updated as December 2013 or March 2014 (top selling games are updated as March 2014).

LoZSS:
March 2012 = 3.52M
December 2013 = 3.67M
 
even if ps4 and xb1 are only stagnant over last generation (a big if - i think there's going to be a good 30-40 million drop from that 180 million number at least), that is a bad thing for companies already trying to squeeze every last dollar out of existing customers. and the more barriers they put up, the more people they put off.
Bare minimum this gen is MS loses 15-20 million units. They're going to lose 10-15 from the USA alone. They've totally cratered in other western countries and in Japan they're in a worse position than they were before they even joined the market.

PS4 is all around selling better, but for a six year gen at their current pace they aren't going to hit 100 million units. And I question if anyone reaches the 40 million unit mark in NA this gen.

Very curious about january NPD. I'm starting to think they will not meet the goal. It's sad because they were very conservative with their target.
Given how badly they got hit over the holiday season in Japan, and NA Nov sales being only around 20k units more than the year prior I'd say they likely won't. That's a big ole yikes in itself.
Remember that kinect sold 20+ million units. I don't think all this people will buy a Xbox One.
Yeah, the high end of One sales I can see at the end of this generation are 65 million units. That's with a turnaround in other western markets. One that I don't realistically see happening given how anemic their sales have been in NA barring Nov. Realistically One will end around 45-50 million units. And my pessimistic outlook could have the system ending the gen around 35 million units.

All in all market contraction of 87 million units for Nintendo, anywhere from 20-45 million units for MS, with Sony increasing their share by around 20-30 million units. We will have to go back two generations to the N64 era to see the dedicated console market this small. Around 110 million units lost from the Wii/PS3/360 gen, and around 50 million units under the PS2/GCN/XBX/DC gen.
 
There's no more hope for F-Zero or Advance Wars, is there? :(


I still say F-Zero GX was doomed by it coming out almost concurrently with Kirby Air Ride and Mario Kart: Double Dash. You can't release three first-party racing games in the same holiday season without one getting trampled.

If it had come out in 2004, it would've probably done better.
 

TI82

Banned
Where are the Zelda SS numbers from? I always see the ~3.6m number thrown around, but that's just from the first three months. Surely it's sold SOME copies the last three years??

Anecdotal evidence: everyone I know absolutely hates this Zelda game and traded it in asap. Havent seen a copy in stores in a long time, other than used. So maybe the flood of used titles led to much lower sales.
 
I still say F-Zero GX was doomed by it coming out almost concurrently with Kirby Air Ride and Mario Kart: Double Dash. You can't release three first-party racing games in the same holiday season without one getting trampled.

If it had come out in 2004, it would've probably done better.

F-Zero GX had little to no marketing at all when it came out. Nintendo didn't gave a shit to advertise it in it's release in 2003. Only informed GCN owners, F-Zero aficionados and Nintendo fanboys were aware it was coming. It was really a shame because, unlike some apologysts try to paint it as niche, F-Zero was a big franchise, as it's previous installments were million sellers. After that, the series was thrown into the vault as it wasn't no longer fit into the casual/family direction driven by Iwata's management.
 

maxcriden

Member
Anecdotal evidence: everyone I know absolutely hates this Zelda game and traded it in asap. Havent seen a copy in stores in a long time, other than used. So maybe the flood of used titles led to much lower sales.

This anecdotal evidence, like all anecdotal evidence, cannot provide any empirical evidence, though. I love SS and I know a lot of people who love it. That does not mean it sold well or poorly after the first three months. I would imagine given the required additional peripheral it was not a supremely high sales mark for the series, but we simply do not know.
 

Celine

Member
F-Zero GX had little to no marketing at all when it came out. Nintendo didn't gave a shit to advertise it in it's release in 2003. Only informed GCN owners, F-Zero aficionados and Nintendo fanboys were aware it was coming. It was really a shame because, unlike some apologysts try to paint it as niche, F-Zero was a big franchise, as it's previous installments were million sellers. After that, the series was thrown into the vault as it wasn't no longer fit into the casual/family direction driven by Iwata's management.
If there was someone in the management or production with an interest in the series and how evolve it or even better if the series proved to be very profitable then we would have got already a new F-Zero game.
The casual/family direction gave us Sin & Punishment sequel, new Excite games, Punch Out etc.
There isn't a conspiracy against F-Zero.

Also don't forget Nintendo tried to expand F-Zero (and Kirby) brand popularity in early '00 with the cartoon TV series.

Signed
a F-Zero fan

EDIT:
I'm not saying we will never get a new F-Zero, actually the chance is high we will get it in the future in some form because Nintendo like to revive their legacy IPs.
What I am saying is that F-Zero as for many other "mid tier"once successful Nintendo IP (just like Pilotwings for example) is in a situation where sales forecast aren't good enough to guarantee a episode each generation and within Nintendo there isn't a producer/team dedicated to continue the series.
If Nintendo ever decide to greenlight a new F-Zero then it will be farmed out to an outside development team.
 

TI82

Banned
This anecdotal evidence, like all anecdotal evidence, cannot provide any empirical evidence, though. I love SS and I know a lot of people who love it. That does not mean it sold well or poorly after the first three months. I would imagine given the required additional peripheral it was not a supremely high sales mark for the series, but we simply do not know.

Just offering the little showing I have. Like my brother for example only plays three game series (at all), elder scrolls animal crossing and Zelda. Skyward Sword is the only one he has actually quit playing because of his dislike for it, and he even liked the (in my opinion) horrible DS games.

But yeah, obviously not an official explanation.
 

maxcriden

Member
Just offering the little showing I have. Like my brother for example only plays three game series (at all), elder scrolls animal crossing and Zelda. Skyward Sword is the only one he has actually quit playing because of his dislike for it, and he even liked the (in my opinion) horrible DS games.

But yeah, obviously not an official explanation.

No, sure, that makes sense. I'll tell you, when my wife and I first tried getting into Skyward Sword we didn't care much for it at all. That was back when it came out. Then this past summer 2014, we tried it again and it took a while to really click for us and get used to the controls. It's an acquired taste with an absurdly high learning curve and it's antithetical to the typical Wii motion control premise of big, exaggerated motions being okay. We ended up loving it, but it took some real time to get into it. I imagine the game has sold alright, but I have to image the peripheral and learning curve alone put plenty of people off.
 

Mael

Member
F-Zero GX had little to no marketing at all when it came out. Nintendo didn't gave a shit to advertise it in it's release in 2003. Only informed GCN owners, F-Zero aficionados and Nintendo fanboys were aware it was coming. It was really a shame because, unlike some apologysts try to paint it as niche, F-Zero was a big franchise, as it's previous installments were million sellers. After that, the series was thrown into the vault as it wasn't no longer fit into the casual/family direction driven by Iwata's management.

Wait what?
Fzero GX was part of the big Triforce initiative with Nintendo partneering with outside companies to make Arcade games.
People were well aware that it was coming out.
Heck Kirby Air Ride managed to do better and I can tell you they did no favor to that one in Europe.
 
F-Zero GX had little to no marketing at all when it came out. Nintendo didn't gave a shit to advertise it in it's release in 2003. Only informed GCN owners, F-Zero aficionados and Nintendo fanboys were aware it was coming. It was really a shame because, unlike some apologysts try to paint it as niche, F-Zero was a big franchise, as it's previous installments were million sellers. After that, the series was thrown into the vault as it wasn't no longer fit into the casual/family direction driven by Iwata's management.
GCN gen was just a clusterfuck though. They'd had modest success tapping into the more casual gaming demos with Melee. But until then no hardcore title had caught on. Closest would have been Rogue Leader. Resident Evil went exclusive for a generation, and aside from getting us an awesome REmake and RE4, what did it do for the RE franchise in general? It went from the top of the 3rd party pile in the prior generation to a modest selling series. By the time F-Zero came out the bulk of that market would have already tried to find an alternative for their itch. On another console if need be.

It's like that early core demo on the Wii. I bought a lot of Wii titles in those first two years. Some of them great, some not. Then the "it" titles for the platform became apparent and there was an almost immediate flip. The fairly impressive sales of Zelda, RE4, Godfather: Blackhand Edition wouldn't mean much when stuff like Wii Sports and WiiFit were making national news.

Most of that was ranting. I don't think it was just a lack of marketing that was hindering F-Zero. There just wasn't a large market for that kind of title on that platform by then.

They hadn't exactly been watered very much. Extreme G Racing isn't exactly a big market builder.
 

maxcriden

Member
Wait what?
Fzero GX was part of the big Triforce initiative with Nintendo partneering with outside companies to make Arcade games.
People were well aware that it was coming out.
Heck Kirby Air Ride managed to do better and I can tell you they did no favor to that one in Europe.

Unless I'm mistaken, THG is referring to mainstream marketing push. You're referring to something hardcore gamers only would be aware of. I don't think the initiative you're referring to was necessarily filtered out into mainstream consciousness.
 

Celine

Member
Cumulative sales per series with the data in OP (to be considered at least 2 games in the series had to be in the million-seller list)

Mario all: 498,3
Super Mario 2D: 237,14 (include Super Luigi Bros and Mario Bros)
Kart: 103
Super Mario 3D: 59,92
Party: 37,78
Adventure: 2,14 + 9,47 + 10,46 = 22,07 (RPG + Paper + M&L)
Dr Mario: 10,19
Tennis: 4,71
Strikers: 4,15

Pokemon: 235
Wii Sports/Fit/Play/Party/Music: 201,6
Zelda: 78,26
Donkey Kong: 56,49
Brain: 43,38
Tetris: 41,7
Kirby: 30,89
Nintendogs: 27,46
Animal Crossing: 25,94
Smash Bros: 25,1
Wario: 18,05
Yoshi: 17,85
Metroid: 13,84
Layton (Outside Japan): 9,82
Starfox: 8,81
Luigi’s Mansion: 7,3
Tomodachi: 5,61
F-Zero: 5
Punch Out: 4,16
Style Boutique: 4,01
Game & Watch Gallery: 3,44
Kid Icarus: 2,99
Golden Sun: 2,77
Pikmin: 2,71
Pilotwings: 2,26
 
If there was someone in the management or production with an interest in the series and how evolve it or even better if the series proved to be very profitable then we would have got already a new F-Zero game.
The casual/family direction gave us Sin & Punishment sequel, new Excite games, Punch Out etc.
There isn't a conspiracy against F-Zero.

Also don't forget Nintendo tried to expand F-Zero (and Kirby) brand popularity in early '00 with the cartoon TV series.

Signed
a F-Zero fan

EDIT:
I'm not saying we will never get a new F-Zero, actually the chance is high we will get it in the future in some form because Nintendo like to revive their legacy IPs.
What I am saying is that F-Zero as for many other "mid tier"once successful Nintendo IP (just like Pilotwings for example) is in a situation where sales forecast aren't good enough to guarantee a episode each generation and within Nintendo there isn't a producer/team dedicated to continue the series.
If Nintendo ever decide to greenlight a new F-Zero then it will be farmed out to an outside development team.

Read the own data you provided here. It lists the first three F-Zero games for SNES, N64 and GBA as million sellers, before Nintendo's change of management in 2002.

It's not that was "a conspiracy against F-Zero", it simply couldn't fit the direction Nintendo was heading. F-Zero GX core orientated appeal, especially difficulty, wasn't appealing to the new audience Nintendo was after, they weren't worried about advertising at all and prefered to invested on games with better appeal to their direction like Pikmin 2 and Mario Kart Double Dash in the same year (2003).

They tried to give a more "family" appeal with that TV show but that didn't work as expected, it actually took a blow into the franchise, as GP Legend and Climax, two games made after GX, got lukewarm reception and sales. There was no room for F-Zero anymore under such direction.

Yes, I got your point, Nintendo had many non-family/casual games under such managament and many of them were among Nintendo finest titles ever, but still, their priorities were... family/casual games. Those games were secondaries and more like a "bonus" than treated as the top-tier titles to carry on the system userbase. Punch-Out, Excite and Sin & Punishment would never receive the same Wii Sports, Wii Fit, Wii Play, Wii Music, Big Brain Academy treatment.

F-Zero can be profitable, it's past numbers shows it, there's potential on it. There were skeptical people (even cynical) about Retro's Metroid and DK and Sora's Kid Icarus, but guess what? Nintendo did it. Star Fox probably will be revived under Miyamoto's supervision. So can be F-Zero if properly managed. Who can be trusted for this? Debatable.

Most of that was ranting. I don't think it was just a lack of marketing that was hindering F-Zero. There just wasn't a large market for that kind of title on that platform by then.

They hadn't exactly been watered very much. Extreme G Racing isn't exactly a big market builder.

Yep, you got a point. GCN kiddy image and how Nintendo was advertising and directing it's audience probably took a hit into it's performance. SNES and N64 had a strong Teen/Mature audience, where F-Zero games were million sellers, something Nintendo lost with the GCN. So, yes,, no audience/market may had a contribution.
 

Celine

Member
Read the own data you provided here. It lists the first three F-Zero games for SNES, N64 and GBA as million sellers, before Nintendo's change of management in 2002.
You should read the data I posted more carefully.
Looks the downward trend:
with the first one (released 25 years ago) which is by far the biggest seller at 3M, X and MV that barely made to 1M and the rest under it.
Saying that past game were "million seller" doesn't really mean much as you think especially with rising costs and no one to manage the series within Nintendo.

It's no surprise Nintendo put the series to sleep and it has very little to do with the company direction.
Again I'm not saying we will never get a new F-Zero.

Yes, I got your point, Nintendo had many non-family/casual games under such managament and many of them were among Nintendo finest titles ever, but still, their priorities were... family/casual games. Those games were secondaries and more like a "bonus" than treated as the top-tier titles to carry on the system userbase. Punch-Out, Excite and Sin & Punishment would never receive the same Wii Sports, Wii Fit, Wii Play, Wii Music, Big Brain Academy treatment.

F-Zero can be profitable, it's past numbers shows it, there's potential on it. There were skeptical people (even cynical) about Retro's Metroid and DK and Sora's Kid Icarus, but guess what? Nintendo did it. Star Fox probably will be revived under Miyamoto's supervision. So can be F-Zero if properly managed. Who can be trusted for this? Debatable.
I seriously don't understand how you can think something like Wii Sports impacted on the making of a new F-Zero as you are claiming.
Yes, Wii Sports was heavily marketed and was what propelled Wii sales but by no means it prevented games like F-Zero to be made on the contrary Wii success is what let Nintendo to fund improbable sequels like S&P2 and Punch Out !!.
You lament F-Zero GX never got the same treatment like Wii Sports etc. (I assume for marketing dollars since I think GX production values are superior) but that's obvious why it did.
Those games earned the right to buy more marketing by booming in sales.
Now how much marketing have you seen for Brain Training 3ds? Surely much less than the DS games and that's because the game flopped at retail.

F-Zero suffers from rising development costs coupled with a shrinking addressable market which render a new project financially not so desirable.
Not just that but within Nintendo there isn't a team or producer focused on the series (like for example Kirby which is however a much more successful IP with not so high production values).
 
Anecdotal evidence: everyone I know absolutely hates this Zelda game and traded it in asap. Havent seen a copy in stores in a long time, other than used. So maybe the flood of used titles led to much lower sales.
This anecdotal evidence, like all anecdotal evidence, cannot provide any empirical evidence, though. I love SS and I know a lot of people who love it. That does not mean it sold well or poorly after the first three months. I would imagine given the required additional peripheral it was not a supremely high sales mark for the series, but we simply do not know.
One of the key reasons for the type of performace Skyward enjoyed is somewhat typical:

It came late in the system's life.

In fact i think it was Nintendo's last relevant release on the Wii and it was at a time when it was quite clear the support for the platform was getting sterile. If we swapped release dates with Twilight you can be asured Skyward would have put better numbers.
 

Yoshi

Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
Metroid could easily be as big as Bioshock, but Nintendo would have to embrace dual analog as a control mechanism for that to happen. Letting the series branch out into more extravagant sci-fi without being tethered to the (now) mangled story of the main series would probably help as well. A spiritual reboot is probably in order.

Considering Metroid Prime was not a shooter, but an Action-Adventure, it seems logical to not use Dual Analog, but a more comfortable way of controling (using left stick and buttons primarily, d-pad and C-stick in order to prevent the need to go into a menu). Dual Analog makes sense for shooters, provided there is no pointer (which is the obviously supreme way of aiming), but Metroid Prime is no shooter.
I would bet most original Prime buyers were duped into thinking it was a Halo type game for GameCube. It was a time where FPS started to gain a lot of traction in the console scene. Most people probably never actually enjoyed the game... It's not really casual friendly like say a Halo or CoD is.

I thought so too and therefore only bought Metroid Prime more than a year later, after a friend has used extensive time to convince me I should play it, even though I think first person shooters are the plague. Needless to say, he was completely right, I loved Metroid Prime and bought 2 and 3 at their respecitve launch dates.
-Zero GX core orientated appeal, especially difficulty, wasn't appealing to the new audience Nintendo was after, they weren't worried about advertising at all and prefered to invested on games with better appeal to their direction like Pikmin 2 and Mario Kart Double Dash in the same year (2003).
Pikmin 2 was a2004 game. One year after GX.
 
You should read the data I posted more carefully.
Looks the downward trend:
with the first one (released 25 years ago) which is by far the biggest seller at 3M, X and MV that barely made to 1M and the rest under it.
Saying that past game were "million seller" doesn't really mean much as you think especially with rising costs and no one to manage the series within Nintendo.

It's no surprise Nintendo put the series to sleep and it has very little to do with the company direction.
Again I'm not saying we will never get a new F-Zero.

I want you to provide a source as confirmation for Nintendo shafting F-Zero were because of rising costs or any statement about the series being financially risky. Which I honestly doubt since Miyamoto made statements about not being happy with the results from outsourcing and how he thought the series could no longer improve, he never mention anything like development costs being reasons.

I seriously don't understand how you can think something like Wii Sports impacted on the making of a new F-Zero as you are claiming.
Yes, Wii Sports was heavily marketed and was what propelled Wii sales but by no means it prevented games like F-Zero to be made on the contrary Wii success is what let Nintendo to fund improbable sequels like S&P2 and Punch Out !!.
You lament F-Zero GX never got the same treatment like Wii Sports etc. (I assume for marketing dollars since I think GX production values are superior) but that's obvious why it did.
Those games earned the right to buy more marketing by booming in sales.
Now how much marketing have you seen for Brain Training 3ds? Surely much less than the DS games and that's because the game flopped at retail.

F-Zero suffers from rising development costs coupled with a shrinking addressable market which render a new project financially not so desirable.
Not just that but within Nintendo there isn't a team or producer focused on the series (like for example Kirby which is however a much more successful IP with not so high production values).

Not just Wii Sports, but the entire casual Wii line-up. Third-parties were also following this same direction. I may even quote a fantastic post from Amir0x that explain everything we're talking right now:

Well I suppose the data don't lie. It's an issue that is continually being cultivated by the very narrow dominate focus of Nintendo's overall game lineup - that is, the games they develop and publish - as family-friendly titles for all ages. The exceptions such as them publishing Fatal Frame don't even make sense when they're not going to publish it in Europe or the USA. They need to aggressively expand the percentage of risk taking titles where they leave their comfort zone. And they can do this while retaining the very personality that makes them so charming in the first place.

So for me the problem remains Nintendo's fault. It's necessary imo to start with a primer on Wii for illustrative purposes, so bare with me if you plan on wasting any time reading my post (I apologize in advance, and every shred of this post is just my opinion. Nothing is meant as me thinking it's a fact):

Nintendo's consoles have traditionally been more fun-for-all-ages oriented, not that there's anything wrong with that. The problem is as demographics continue to shift, it's not possible to be able to razor focus on one group 90% of the time and still expect mass market penetration. As a console manufacturer, it is your job to create an environment conducive to the type of experiences you most want on your platforms and perhaps encourage gaps to be filled by being willing to spend some cash to get third parties to create in the genres/themes you're not comfortable with (Note: Iwata has continually said they don't pay third parties like MS and Sony do. So hey if you don't compete, you automatically lose. Don't complain later Iwata!).

Some companies try to cast a wide net, others a more nuanced approach. People always tried to say developers didn't try on Wii, but the truth is many did try. They just didn't try with what people in the hardcore gaming community wanted them to. Stuff like Just Dance, Carnival Games, Boom Blox, Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Games, Michael Jackson: The Experience, Sonic and the Secret Rings, Deca Sports, Game Party, EA Sports Active, We Skit, etc. represented many developers grasping what the Wii market was about, and making millions because of it. But how many forum members would say that was 'no effort' at all? I can tell you it's tons of people, because I've discussed this subject on many occasions in the past. They always blamed developers, when it was clear developers were just following Nintendo's leads (and being rather successful primarily only when they did, unless a major franchise name was attached to the title).

The disconnect exists imo because there is some stigma associated with these types of titles in hardcore gaming community. I personally feel because most of these games are shallow low-effort cash grabs (my personal view makes me feel perfectly comfortable including Wii Sports/Resorts in this group, as I've detailed at length before how problematic they were as quality sports games), but whatever I feel they weren't always well received, and they usually came with a hefty dose of associated traits that people generally assumed came along for the ride. It didn't matter that these games represented developers "trying" by responding to the actual market as it existed on Wii due to Nintendo's efforts. It just wasn't the latest Metal Gear or the new iteration of Final Fantasy, so obviously devs weren't trying in the eyes of many gamers.


Nintendo fostered an environment on the Wii that was illustrated by their casual fare, and supplemented by the hundredth version of Mario, Zelda, Metroid and Donkey Kong. Those franchise always come, so the differetiation is emphasized in the new approaches NIntendo takes. And as they 'led the way', the developed a consumer base that hungered for that very same (in my view garbage bin) mini-game compilation gimmickry parade. I disliked them from the second I tried Wii Sports. I tried too - got my whole family together, they laughed and seemed to adore it and played it for about a week and never touched the Wii again, emblematic of many people's experiences. (As an aside: In general, you can't turn people who do not have an interest in gaming into long-term gamers; they're more for the quick fix, and the emergent mobile gaming market covers much of that.) And those games sold extremely well, customers wanted them, The ones I listed above sold millions a piece! The few exceptions to the rule on Wii were generally those in well established franchises that typically sell anywhere, like Call or Duty or Resident Evil. But everybody knew what the focus of the platform was.

What did NIntendo choose to illustrate for the Wii U? Their advertisements once again focused on fun-for-all concepts that people were fast getting tired of by that point (and because Nintendo all but completely abandoned Wii in the last years of its life, so they felt forgotten and many moved on). They at least tried a little bit more obviously by helping push ZombiU, but the systems were packed in with NintendoLand with commercials like this - yet another mini-game compilation - another New Super Mario Bros. title, and Sing Party with commercials like this. They had Rabbids Party from Ubi, Scribblenauts, Skylanders, Your Shape Fitness Evolved, Sonic All-Star Racing, Game Party Champions.

Every major videogame system always gets the sports releases like FIFA and Madden (although not much longer for Wii U, illustrating how dire things are), so that's not going to demonstrate the system was going to be focused on more than the traditional Nintendo console content. They had way past relevancy ports of Batman and Mass Effect 3. a late port of Darksiders II, and a few other niche titles that were also old news by the time they hit Wii U. If it weren't for Zombie U, people were to get the impression that the system consisted of old ports that were either better elsewhere or so ancient that few cared to play a version with upgrades so infinitesimal that they barely registered.

Then we got many many more months of the same type of casual fare mixed with more ancient ports, and the next big title was Lego City Underground - yet another fun-for-all-ages romp that continued to fine tradition of the console being exactly what everyone expects, and were frankly bored with by that point. At least Wii, many thought, had a gimmick that could spice these experiences up. On my Wii U I mostly get map/inventory screens and lame off screen mini-games that I would rather have died than play anyway. Not exactly a compelling reason to jump on board here versus the other platforms.

And it's not like Nintendo shouldn't have realized the problem. They have reams of colorful platforms on Wii U. Endless family friendly outings. There's nothing wrong with those types of games, but diversification is the key. But Hell, even a year after Wii U was out they were saying they were having trouble figuring out compelling ways to sell the Gamepad concept! This is insanity! You can't simply keep coming up with a new gameplay idea and then yet again stick fuckin' Mario in it because you're so risk averse you believe that's the only way it'll sell. They should have confidence that the ideas themselves would sell the product, but they don't. For me this very frequently means the ideas themselves simply aren't particularly compelling, and many times this is correct as far as I'm concerned.

Yarn Kirby was disastrously easy, a glorified collection game without a single bit of compelling level design, obstacle navigation or enemy progression. It was cloying to the extreme. They probably realized nobody wanted to play this gameplay, and that it'd be even harder to sell if it was headed by a no-name character like "Prince Fluff." But then they added Kirby, and voila! Your game sells, despite the quality of the actual content which might as well have played itself for how insultingly easy it was. Shit, it wasn't even a decent scavenger hunt. It's not like they were trying to sell some impressive story. These games live and die on their gameplay, and the gameplay was a mind numbing cake walk surrounded by a gorgeous art style. I'm surprised I even lasted as long as I did without falling asleep at the wheel. Point is, you can insert your own view on many of their concepts, but they keep diluting the strength of their brands by continually thinking the way to success is to make a cool new gameplay idea (or sometimes not-so-cool) and then bury it beneath Yoshi's asscrack.

I like my Wii U a fair amount now. It came into its own a year after its launch, delivered Pikmin 3, Wonderful 101 and a slew of really good indie titles. I'm getting Splatoon, Xenoblade Chronciles X, Bayonetta 2. Super Mario 3D World was pretty good. Zelda U in the future looks mouthwatering. They are going to get some great titles.

But it's too little too late at this point to meaningfully change the systems trajectory, and that's a shame. It's a system that had a lot of potential to bring back Nintendo at their most boldly focused, hardcore gamers once again taking center stage in their productions.

The essential point to this long-winded narrative about what I feel keeps happening is that Nintendo has got to start leading the way. It is time they cast off all preconceived notions about they must do as a company who has always done this or that, and started diving headfirst out of their comfort zone. They have to make partnerships with third parties willing to create games that are not "mature" in the sense of blood and gore and sex (although if appropriate, they should), but 'mature' in terms of the careful handling of adult themes and experimental gameplay that speaks to the importance of sometimes focusing more directly on specific niche demographics.

Their ideas keep getting more and more like they just want to double down. Amiibos for example do not change Nintendo's reputation in this regard, if anything they reinforce it. Splatoon looks like a heck of a lot of fun and I want it, but thematically and artistically it eschews anything but the same fun-for-all-ages vibes the vast majority of all their releases have. I'm not asking them to stop making those, because I love those games more often than not. But I am saying that if Nintendo means to be relevant into the future, they have to be willing to change the focus a bit. Maybe push a larger fraction of their overall game releases to be a bit more risky and focusing on the 18-32 male demographic. Perhaps if they're too scared of that, they can form more meaningful partnerships. They are trying now a little bit, but Wii U is clearly too late to salvage. So I hope they begin to apply lessons learned in things like Bayonetta 2 partnership and Devil's Third agreement that they need to have these titles available on day one, they need to push them just as hard as any Mario game, and they need to be willing to prop up indie devs that cast nets into experimental waters and give them the budgets to make AA titles, like Sony keeps increasingly doing with titles such as The Tomorrow Children and Rime.

I love Nintendo. I want them to maintain the character they have always had

BTW...

You lament F-Zero GX never got the same treatment like Wii Sports etc. (I assume for marketing dollars since I think GX production values are superior) but that's obvious why it did.

Ah, the crux of the argument. You're making a claim you aren't so sure of it. Unless you have a solid info to base this statement, it'll be a mere guess.
 

Celine

Member
There is enough data to consider F-Zero a low priority series for Nintendo.
The rest is done by the decade long absence.

But it's not just a question of sales or else S&P2 wouldn't be greenlit either...

Are you really surprised F-Zero isn't a generational franchise anymore?

Ah, the crux of the argument. You're making a claim you aren't so sure of it. Unless you have a solid info to base this statement, it'll be a mere guess.
Ok, what's not a guess is that F-Zero on consoles went from 3M in 1990 to 1M in 1998 to less than 1M in 2003.
Now between that consideration and your "after that, the series was thrown into the vault as it wasn't no longer fit into the casual/family direction driven by Iwata's management" I know what I choose when thinking why the series had a decade long hiatus (actually it's not just that, as I've written a few lines above).
 
Ok, what's not a guess is that F-Zero on consoles went from 3M in 1990 to 1M in 1998 to less than 1M in 2003.
Now between that consideration and your "after that, the series was thrown into the vault as it wasn't no longer fit into the casual/family direction driven by Iwata's management" I know what I choose when thinking why the series had a decade long hiatus (actually it's not just that, as I've written a few of lines above).
Not even Nintendo understands how to properly sell F-Zero, when in reality is quite simple.

To maximize the sales of this type of game Nintendo needs to make it a launch title with a console. Have a beautiful, fast and tight playing game and people will jump to it at launch.

Infact, this a good formula to resurrect fan favorites that don't perform to the level of the big properties. Nintendo for example could have a new Metroid ready for the next portable console and an Fzero entry for the home platform as launch titles. It would be the less risky way to produce these properties again.
 

Wendler

Banned
F-Zero GX had a huge budget compared to F-Zero X, because Miyamoto believed that the franchise could get bigger than it was on the N64. But what really happend is that the game that cost way more than its predecessor to develop sold not even half as well. Since then, Miyamoto has rightfully given up on greenlighting another standard futuristic hardcore-only racer and that's why you hear him constantly saying they don't have any new ideas for a new one. Because the old one sold like complete shit even though they put a lot of effort and money into it and they would love to make a new one but some newfounded goodwill won't save the sameold F-Zero formular from selling like shit again.
 
There is enough data to consider F-Zero a low priority series for Nintendo.
The rest is done by the decade long absence.

But it's not just a question of sales or else S&P2 wouldn't be greenlit either...

Are you really surprised F-Zero isn't a generational franchise anymore?


Ok, what's not a guess is that F-Zero on consoles went from 3M in 1990 to 1M in 1998 to less than 1M in 2003.
Now between that consideration and your "after that, the series was thrown into the vault as it wasn't no longer fit into the casual/family direction driven by Iwata's management" I know what I choose when thinking why the series had a decade long hiatus (actually it's not just that, as I've written a few of lines above).

F-Zero was a very important franchise before Nintendo shift of command in 2002. Why do you think Maximum Velocity was a GBA launch title if wasn't a title Nintendo wouldn't rely on it? It was Nintendo's new management shift of direction and mismanagement of the franchise that killed it. GX's lack of advertising and being on a system clearly targeted at young audience (GCN), a terrible TV show plus two poorly received GBA games took a blow on the franchise. Sales decline were such mismanagement's reflection.

I suggest you read this article from Dromble, it's a very interesting info about Nintendo's unability to manage it's IPs and how many of them (F-Zero included) became irrevelevant thanks to this direction.
 

Biker19

Banned
WiiU won't reach Gamecube numbers.
Going from the Wii (best selling Nintendo home console) to the Wii U (worst selling Nintendo home console) is quite an interesting disaster.

Very much so. And so is going from DS to the 3DS (while the 3DS isn't quite a disaster, it's very impossible for them to reach the install base numbers of the DS, let alone either PSP's or GBA's install base numbers like Jigorath had mentioned).

3DS at only 44m three years after launch is pretty low. At this rate it won't touch PSP or GBA lifetime sales. Does not bode well for the future of gaming handhelds.
 

ZSaberLink

Media Create Maven
F-Zero was a very important franchise before Nintendo shift of command in 2002. Why do you think Maximum Velocity was a GBA launch title if wasn't a title Nintendo wouldn't rely on it? It was Nintendo's new management shift of direction and mismanagement of the franchise that killed it. GX's lack of advertising and being on a system clearly targeted at young audience (GCN), a terrible TV show plus two poorly received GBA games took a blow on the franchise. Sales decline were such mismanagement's reflection.

I suggest you read this article from Dromble, it's a very interesting info about Nintendo's unability to manage it's IPs and how many of them (F-Zero included) became irrevelevant thanks to this direction.

While I agree Nintendo relied on Mario way too much early in the Wii U life cycle (and Smash Bros isn't popular because of Mario.... it just happens to star Mario), you have to realize that they did release quite a few titles that they completely failed to market.

They seemed to think Wii game sequels (Fit/Party) + Mario + mini game collections + 3rd party ports would be sufficient to keep things going. Or maybe those were just the games that were able to release on time (Wii Fit was supposed to release a lot earlier iirc). Aka they started with their historically highest sellers, and that backfired pretty heavily. However, if you look at their 2015 lineup for Wii U (and end of 2014), in theory I finally think a bit of that variety is finally coming to the system.

2012:
Nintendo Land
NSMBU

2013:
Lego City Undercover (was different, sold decently)
Game & Wario
Pikmin 3 (was different, sold alright all things considered)
Wind Waker HD
Wii Party U (minigames)
Wonderful 101 (different, but not marketed at all...)
Super Mario 3D World (big Mario title)

2014:
Wii Fit U (retail)
DKC: TF (platformer, underperformed a lot)
Mario Kart 8 (yay)
Hyrule Warriors (good)
Fatal Frame V (JP) (horror for once)
Bayonetta 2 (nice)
Super Smash Bros. Wii U (yay)
Captain Toad (cute puzzler and cheap for filling gaps)

2015:
Kirby Rainbow Curse (kind of different platformer?)
Yoshi's Wooly World (platformer...)
Mario Maker (platform level creator? somewhat different)
Xenoblade X (different and ambitious)
Splatoon (looks promising)
Mario Party 10 (well why not, but it's been a while lol)
Devil's Third (different)
Star Fox U
Zelda U (different take)
 
Very much so. And so is going from DS to the 3DS (while the 3DS isn't quite a disaster, it's very impossible for them to reach the install base numbers of the DS, let alone either PSP's or GBA's install base numbers like Jigorath had mentioned).
It's because gaming as we know it was given its first legitimate outside competitor.

The question this gen has always been how many were going to leave. It's hitting the less dedicated and budget oriented gamer first. They've already got a phone and it's giving them their fix. Where does it end though? And does it mean they can't be reached again? Or that the products focused on them were lacking? We could potentially see bleed over in this contraction to other less dedicated markets as well. Call of Duty could be just such a sign. Series is seeing unit sales contraction release to release.

This is a very different market. Realities for games have changed drastically in such a short span of time. In the course of three years we've watched the dedicated handheld market in NA all but vanish. From around 70 million units to unlikely to clear 18 million units.

I'm thinking home consoles are going to be hit as well. If we're lucky by year six both will be at least closing in on 30 million units sold. We'll probably end the gen at a little more than 70 million units total, only losing 30-40 million players from the gen prior.

But what's the tipping point? My question for the last couple of years.
 
Wii U gon end up with one of Nintendo's strongest exclusive line-ups...and its gonna fail to reach 15 million worldwide by the five year mark
 

Celine

Member
is it data that can be replicated from copying the stuff from the pics in the OP? or were the sheets more complex?
Data isn't the problem (I have the sources from which the data came from).
Recompiling the whole datasheet is very long though (there was also Capcom, Square, Enix, Tecmo software million sellers in it) and I'm not sure I have the will now to do all over again from scratch.

In the evening I will check if I have a backup.
 

Celine

Member
sörine;152906366 said:
Sad news, hope everything works out. :(

But thanks again for everything you've already contributed. Good stuff.
Problem solved!
I've found an old backup.
Data isn't up to date but the majority of the entries are already there which means the changes are quick.
 
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