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[LordOfChaos]

Whether or not those leaked slides that AMD denied were real, were real or not, these ones are from AMDs official presentation to tech sites today.

http://techreport.com/review/28228/amd-zen-chips-headed-to-desktops-servers-in-2016

Spoiler

yes yes bad chart is bad, let's move on

First of all, Zen is indeed a new high-performance core intended to compete against Intel's best x86 processors. AMD expects this core to deliver about 40% higher performance per clock cycle than today's Bulldozer variants, as the slide above indicates. Zen looks to be more of a "brainiac" architecture like K8 and Broadwell than a "speed demon" like the Pentium 4 and members of the Bulldozer lineage.

The Zen core will feature simultaneous multithreading (SMT), or the ability to track and execute multiple threads per core. Although SMT can extend beyond this limit, Zen's version of SMT will stop at two threads per core, like today's big Intel cores. The inclusion of dual threads per core follows a proven template for success in big x86 CPUs, and it also should put AMD on more equal footing with Intel from a marketing standpoint.

AMD expects to bring the first Zen-based silicon to market in 2016, and those chips will be based on a chip fabrication process that uses FinFETs, also known as 3D transistors. The use of FinFETs is positive news in the sense that it should allow for faster switching speed and lower voltage operation than traditional planar transitors—and AMD's major competitor will be producing chips on its second or third generation of 3D transistors by 2016. AMD didn't reveal the specific foundry or process on which these chips will be made, but the obvious list of candidates is pretty small, including the 14- and 16-nm FinFET processes at Samsung, GlobalFoundries, and TSMC.

There's some graphics stuff in the article as well, I don't want to quote the entire thing

Edit: one last tidbit about that giant server based APU

This big APU won't just target servers, either. AMD hasn't officially extended its desktop roadmap into 2017, but a source familiar with the firm's plans has indicated to us that a beefy APU of this sort could make its way into client systems like laptops and desktops, as well.

 

[mcrommert]

Cool chart...unfortunately it seems to be missing any numbers on the axis. AMD being amd

 

[LifeIsLife]

40% more per clock yet that graph shows closer to 400% change, oh silly marketing tactics

 

[Stop It]

Poor AMD.

I feel for them, they finally seem to be getting a decent architecture together with this, but releasing in 2016 will mean it'll be after Skylake.

Good luck with that.

 

[LordOfChaos]

Poor AMD.

I feel for them, they finally seem to be getting a decent architecture together with this, but releasing in 2016 will mean it'll be after Skylake.

Good luck with that.

Yeah, that's the tough bit. But at least with the reported gains of each, they should be closer than they ever were with any Bulldozer derivative, or probably Phenom as well.

 

[brochiller]

Cool chart...unfortunately it seems to be missing any numbers on the axis. AMD being amd

40% more per clock yet that graph shows closer to 400% change, oh silly marketing tactics

I'm glad I'm not the only one this jumped out at.

 

[Shambles]

Cool chart...unfortunately it seems to be missing any numbers on the axis. AMD being amd

Why would financial people care about that?

 

[LordOfChaos]

Ooh

This big APU won't just target servers, either. AMD hasn't officially extended its desktop roadmap into 2017, but a source familiar with the firm's plans has indicated to us that a beefy APU of this sort could make its way into client systems like laptops and desktops, as well.

 

[InfYn]

Skylake defence force, aaaaassssssseeeeemmmmbbbbbbblllllllleeeeeeeeee

Zen sounds fantastic though, really

 

[Idempotent Button]

I already own a flagship 5960x, but for some reason I'm excited about this. I imagine I'll build a Zen based system just because I can.

 

[Blanquito]

Sounds exciting for APU-based budget PCs and maybe next gen consoles.

 

[Narroo]

Skylake defence force, aaaaassssssseeeeemmmmbbbbbbblllllllleeeeeeeeee

Zen sounds fantastic though, really

Isn't it called Skylark?

 

[Mad1723]

Isn't it called Skylark?

Nope, Broadwell, then Skylake

 

[AmyS]

Sounds exciting for APU-based budget PCs and maybe next gen consoles.

Next gen APU with Zen+ cores + GCN 2.X + HMB2 on 10nm FinFET process (Globalfoundries, TSMC, Samsung) could feasibly be ready 2018/2019, depending on when Microsoft / Sony want to launch?

 

[InfYn]

Isn't it called Skylark?

Haswell > Broadwell > Skylake > Cannonlake

 

[wachie]

Next gen APU with Zen+ cores + GCN 2.X + HMB2 on 10nm FinFET process (Globalfoundries, TSMC, Samsung) could feasibly be ready 2018/2019, depending on when Microsoft / Sony want to launch?

I can also imagine this being as small as the Wii U.

 

[R1CHO]

Please be good, I want amd back.

 

[Blanquito]

Next gen APU with Zen+ cores + GCN 2.X + HMB2 on 10nm FinFET process (Globalfoundries, TSMC, Samsung) could feasibly be ready 2018/2019, depending on when Microsoft / Sony want to launch?

After reading the article, it almost sounds as if they think that AMD could put a pretty powerful apu out (of course, not as good as going discreet the whole way, but much better than the APUs now available) with big increases in both CPU and GPU.

 

[McHuj]

Next gen APU with Zen+ cores + GCN 2.X + HMB2 on 10nm FinFET process (Globalfoundries, TSMC, Samsung) could feasibly be ready 2018/2019, depending on when Microsoft / Sony want to launch?

I think 10nm and HMB is pretty much a given for next gen consoles. I think any smaller process will be much further out than a potential 2018-2020 launch time frame and HMB will take over all graphics memory in the coming years.

 

[AmyS]

I can also imagine this being as small as the Wii U.

Yet, if the next-gen Xbox and PS5 are afforded a higher TDP than Wii U and more in line with PS4/Xbone, we might get a decent leap in performance.

While Zen/Zen+ most likely won't give Intel a run for its money, they should be a big improvement over the anemic Jaguar cores in current consoles.

 

[Dictator93]

As I mentioned in the other thread.. this is great. Just sad that it will take so long.

AMD will be putting really old chips against Skylake come fall time.

 

[DieH@rd]

Next gen APU with Zen+ cores + GCN 2.X + HMB2 on 10nm FinFET process (Globalfoundries, TSMC, Samsung) could feasibly be ready 2018/2019, depending on when Microsoft / Sony want to launch?

I'm thinking that by 2019-2020 console manufacturers will be able to get sub-200W APU designs with 500Gflops CPU, 7-8Gflops GPU and access to 32GB of HBM. That would be enough for a very nice bump in visuals.

 

[Reallink]

What is Haswell's approximate IPC advantage over AMD's current FX 8350 line?

 

[Dictator93]

I'm thinking that by 2019-2020 console manufacturers will be able to get sub-200W APU designs with 500Gflops CPU, 7-8Gflops GPU and access to 32GB of HBM. That would be enough for a very nice bump in visuals.

I am not sure about a 500Gflop CPU... but the GPU stuff doesnt sound that fishy.

 

[Saintruski]

Isn't it called Skylark?

you mean the interviewer from the interview played by James Franco, Dave skylark from skylark tonight, from inside your processor bringing you live feed of north Korea.

 

[etta]

you mean the interviewer from the interview played by James Franco, Dave skylark from skylark tonight, from inside your processor bringing you live feed of north Korea.

Hahah goddamn you, I just washed this shirt

 

[Theonik]

But will the top-dog run better than a Skylake i3.

 

[Xeroblade]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIlNIVXpIns

this fits nicely now.

But it does seem they are always a step behind. I loved my phenom II though.

 

[Kysen]

These are numbers in a vacuum and so doesn't mean much. If they were truly confident in their product they'd put that graph up against intels numbers. Otherwise its just 40% more on their already weak offering. Also that 2016 timeline isn't helping things.

 

[Reallink]

These are numbers in a vacuum and so doesn't mean much. If they were truly confident in their product they'd put that graph up against intels numbers. Otherwise its just 40% more on their already weak offering. Also that 2016 timeline isn't helping things.

Going along with my earlier question, dug up some benchmarks and the 5Ghz FX-9590 gets stomped by the 3.9Ghz 4770k. Factoring in the frequency differences and scores, some of the single core metrics suggest Intel holds way more than a 40% IPC advantage.

 

[anexanhume]

I am not sure about a 500Gflop CPU... but the GPU stuff doesnt sound that fishy.

You mean a CPU that matches a quad core Haswell is unrealistic in 2018/2019?

Excavator has AVX2 and AVX-512 has already been roadmapped by Intel.

 

[Hazaro]

What is Haswell's approximate IPC advantage over AMD's current FX 8350 line?

40-55% roughly

 

[brain_stew]

Going along with my earlier question, dug up some benchmarks and the 5Ghz FX-9590 gets stomped by the 3.9Ghz 4770k. Factoring in the frequency differences and scores, some of the single core metrics suggest Intel holds way more than a 40% IPC advantage.

It's 40% higher IPC than Excavator not the Piledriver based FX chips. Excavator already offers ~15-20% higher IPC than Piledriver.

If Intel only held a 40% IPC advantage over Piledriver then Zen would be on course to beat Skylake.

 

[Joezie]

So I'm assuming based on the slides that only the FX lineup will contain Zen cores and the APU's will just be redone excavators/carrizo and will have to wait till 2017 to get Zen?

Edit: NVM. Article says yes 2017 for Zen APU and I missed it while skimming.

 

[LordOfChaos]

Haswell > Broadwell > Skylake > Cannonlake

I think you're thinking of Haslark > Broadlark > Skylark > Cannonlark

 

[TouchMyBox]

40-55% roughly

I guess I'd be satisfied with Haswell-level performance from AMD so long as the price is right. It would be rad to be able to build cheap "best bang for your buck" AMD PCs for people again.

Then again, if they're going to compete by having more cores than Intel, and with DX12 being out soon to help with utilizing those cores, it could be alright for more higher-end builds as well.

 

[LordOfChaos]

40-55% roughly

Bear in mind, this 40% from AMD is on top of the 20% Excavator is supposed to bring. Should be 1.68x Piledriver performance, stacked. So if Haswell is 40-55%, it should be a pretty close one.
Just spitballing.

 

[Dictator93]

You mean a CPU that matches a quad core Haswell is unrealistic in 2018/2019?

Excavator has AVX2 and AVX-512 has already been roadmapped by Intel.

I think it is just unrealistic given the power profile and chip type these consoles have gone with this gen.

I am not sure if I see an APU (which has die-space to compete for) with that profile in 2018/2019.

 

[OmegaDL50]

I think it is just unrealistic given the power profile and chip type these consoles have gone with this gen.

I am not sure if I see an APU (which has die-space to compete for) with that profile in 2018/2019.

Even if we factor moore's law being considered, as well as trends of maintaining a TDP expected from a console in terms of heat / power generation?

I would think by then even whatever Nvidia SoC offering, like a Tegra K3 based on possibly on Pascal architecture or perhaps it's successor (whatever will be the codename for the GTX 1100 series GPUs but the mobile derivative?)

Of course this entirely depends if console manufacturers are willing to pay Nvidia's asking price to use such a SoC in their system for it's graphics option.

Although that Zen+ APU sounds nice too, if it lives up to the numbers it actually claims.

 

[anexanhume]

I think it is just unrealistic given the power profile and chip type these consoles have gone with this gen.

I am not sure if I see an APU (which has die-space to compete for) with that profile in 2018/2019.

IIRC, 8 core Jaguar is north of 100 GF and that's just AVX. I don't think it's unrealistic to export a fourfold increase when given 5 to 6 years and at least AVX2. They will probably have more advanced power-gating and thermal solutions as well, meaning they could go a little more power hungry on their parts.

 

[mkenyon]

If they can get a chip on par with Haswell (or even Sandy Bridge for that matter), then that's a huge win for AMD. DDR4 compatibility too!

Color me hopeful.

Even if we factor moore's law being considered, as well as trends of maintaining a TDP expected from a console in terms of heat / power generation?

I would think by then even whatever Nvidia SoC offering, like a Tegra K3 based on possibly on Pascal architecture or perhaps it's successor (whatever will be the codename for the GTX 1100 series GPUs but the mobile derivative?)

Of course this entirely depends if console manufacturers are willing to pay Nvidia's asking price to use such a SoC in their system for it's graphics option.

Although that Zen+ APU sounds nice too, if it lives up to the numbers it actually claims.

Moore's Law is dead.

 

[AmyS]

I would think by then even whatever Nvidia SoC offering, like a Tegra K3 based on possibly on Pascal architecture[ or perhaps it's successor (whatever will be the codename for the GTX 1100 series GPUs but the mobile derivative?)

Volta

 

[KillaKalz347]

This chip is also using SMT, so it'll be competitive with Skylake.

 

[Kieli]

Volta

The implications in this graph are so scary.

It seems to be an exponential increase in power.

What are devs going to be doing with infinite power a few gens down the line!?!?

 

[Easy_D]

Keep the price advantage and I'm there

 

[Metalingus5150]

The implications in this graph are so scary.

It seems to be an exponential increase in power.

What are devs going to be doing with infinite power a few gens down the line!?!?

Emulate even more camera imperfections?

 

[Josman]

Great, great news. I mean we don't actually know real world performance, that graph is also shaddy, but at least I'm glad AMD tackles the biggest issue with their CPU's.

Now, about that TDP...

 

[alf717]

I'd rather see the real world performance numbers but AMD probably isn't at that stage yet. 2016 is going to be a long wait for AMD. Hope it turns out well for them.

 

[UnrealEck]

It seems to be an exponential increase in power.

What are devs going to be doing with infinite power a few gens down the line!?!?

Console games ported to PC with extra strands in hairworks. Many, many more strands.

 

[Irobot82]

AMD is keeping the FX line. I wonder if will be an 8 core 16 thread chip. How much is intel's 8 core? Could you imagine getting one for like $150 and it OC'ing to like 4.5-5. Maybe all fantasy but that's what I hope to see.