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Nvidia past generation GPUs aging terribly

W

wachie

Member
I wasnt aware of this until mkenyon (credit to Crisium) brought it up in this thread here.

GTX 780Ti
Lead over 290X = +9.7% (Nov 7, 2013)
Lead now = +4.2%
Lead over 290X decreased over 50%.

GTX 780
Lead over 290X = -7% (Oct 23, 2013)
Lead now = -16.3%
290X lead increased over 100%.

GTX 760
Lead over 270X = +12% (Oct 7, 2013
Lead now = +4.6%
Lead over 270X decreased over 60%.

So you can see across the board - big Kepler, performance Kepler and mainstream Kepler all have seen their performance age not too well. Really hoping this is an isolated case and does not repeat with Maxwell. You can also read the comparison by Crisium.

Who keeps their cards over a year anyway, right? RIGHT!!!1
 
B

bomblord1

Banned
I'm a bit confused here are we saying that Radeon GPU's get more powerful over time? Or even weirder are we saying that Nvidia GPU's get weaker over time?
 
S

Serick

Married Member
Yeahhhh, if the 980 ends up in the same boat I may switch to the red team (simply because I want to get off the upgrade every year cycle that I'm currently on.)
 
S

Septimus

Member
bomblord1 said:
I'm a bit confused here are we saying that Radeon GPU's get more powerful over time? Or even weirder are we saying that Nvidia GPU's get weaker over time?
Click to expand...

I think what is implied is that they don't continue to get optimized in hopes that people keep buying newer cards.
 
Z

zon

Member
bomblord1 said:
I'm a bit confused here are we saying that Radeon GPU's get more powerful over time? Or even weirder are we saying that Nvidia GPU's get weaker over time?
Click to expand...

More like AMD takes much longer to make good drivers than Nvidia.
 
K

kabel

Member
bomblord1 said:
I'm a bit confused here are we saying that Radeon GPU's get more powerful over time? Or even weirder are we saying that Nvidia GPU's get weaker over time?
Click to expand...

I actually think that Nvidia applied the Apple OS update strategy on their GPU drivers.

Maxwell has to look more powerfull.
 
G

GhostTrick

Banned
Are we comparing with the same games at least ? Also which games ?
Because if its to compare a game where your GPU scores 180fps and another one scores 150fps...
 
L

LilJoka

Member
Its been known to me since the 970 debacle, and why i was so vocal about the 3.5GB issue. NVidia dropped optimisation or the new games are taking advantage of architecture that is more prevalent on AMD cards and Maxwell compared to Kepler. If its the former, i fear for the 970.
 
S

Serick

Married Member
Napalm_Frank said:
Don't Nvidia cards suffer from RAM rot over time?
Click to expand...

Ram rot? No idea what that is, explain/link?

But no, it's just driver support. AMD benefits from using the same architecture (GCN) for longer so their cards see better optimization over time.

Stevey said:
This is either a contradiction or I've forgotten how to read.
Click to expand...

Those are negatives. The 780 was 7% slower now it's 16.3% slower.
 
1

10k

Banned
My 780 is struggling to hit 1440p60 on multiple games unless I turn down shadows and AF and sometimes even texture detail (3GB is not enough). That's why I bought the super clocked 980Ti. I'm hoping it doesn't become subpar in 2-3 years like the 780 did.
 
O

orochi91

Member
NVIDIA probably wants to make upgrading as appealing as possible.

Pretty scummy approach, and I hope AMD doesn't go down this path :/

kabel said:
I actually think that Nvidia applied the Apple OS update strategy on their GPU drivers.

Maxwell has to look more powerfull.
Click to expand...

+1

Exactly what I was thinking.
 
I

Ivan Amiibo

Banned
speaking of, is there an inexpensive, less power hungry card to upgrade my 570 to? I don't even mind if it's around the same level of horsepower, just less power consumption would be great.

edit: should prob ask in the pc parts thread, sry
 
A

Akai__

Member
Still on my 780Ti and I plan on keeping it until Pascal hits. Can't complain either, because all I do is 1080p @60FPS and it's awesome.
 
M

Mrbob

Member
Crazy results. Wonder if this will catch on and more investigative digging is done.

Maybe I'll stay with the red time after all for my home theater PC.
 
D

Dictator93

Member
It is not surprising that Maxwell is much better than Kepler at a lot of things.

Still, it sucks to have a kepler card which appears to be "under-performing".
 
D

DarthWoo

I'm glad Grandpa porked a Chinese Muslim
TC McQueen said:
GTX 750 Ti or GTX 960 4GB.
Click to expand...

I've got to second the 750 Ti. I bought a cheapy Dell system (Inspiron 3847 w/ i5-4460 for $250+tax) earlier this year that had a 300W PSU and no included GPU. I put the 750 Ti in, and it only requires the PCIe slot and no extra connectors from the PSU, and it runs wonderfully. I don't have any of the newest games to test on it, but it runs stuff like BF3, SC2, Star Trek Online and whatever just fine.

Edit: Mind you that I got the EVGA factory-OC'd version, but that doesn't really impact the power requirement at all. They do make an extra large version that I believe does require one of the 6-pins, but that one was actually physically too large to fit in this Dell's case anyway. The standard 750 Ti is dual slot but less than 7 inches long, so it's a pretty tiny thing for what it does.
 
F

FunkyLounge

Member
DieH@rd said:
Post-release performance increases via driver updates. Seems like AMD upgrades their performance more than Nvidia.
Click to expand...

As stated above - AMD takes more time to complete the drivers. Nvidia cards are not aging at all, this has nothing to do with Nvidia, what a misleading title!

AMD just aren't ready on launch
 
W

wachie

Member
DarthWoo said:
I've got to second the 750 Ti. I bought a cheapy Dell system (Inspiron 3847 w/ i5-4460 for $250+tax) earlier this year that had a 300W PSU and no included GPU. I put the 750 Ti in, and it only requires the PCIe slot and no extra connectors from the PSU, and it runs wonderfully. I don't have any of the newest games to test on it, but it runs stuff like BF3, SC2, Star Trek Online and whatever just fine.
Click to expand...
Another plus point about that little 750Ti is it's actually Maxwell GPU despite the 700 series sticker.
 
D

Dictator93

Member
wachie said:
Yes, the iPhone 6 is also much better than the iPhone 5. Yes, indeed.

I dont get your point.
Click to expand...

I mean, the maxwell architecture does things like tessellation and compute a lot better. So if a game uses those things, it will skew the performance to be more lopsided.

I don't mean it in terms of linear peformance like: 760 is worse than 780 Ti.
 
B

BlazinAm

Junior Member
I guess you have to have strong long term driver support if your going to keep revising the same chipset and releasing it over and over.
 
Amey

Amey

Member
Benchmark suite probably isn't same in both cases as it's a span of over 1.5 years.
If you throw a few games in there that favor AMD or Nvidia hardware then surely the average will change accordingly.

Basically you can't rely on TPU's average graph. You need to collect only those benchmarks that are common in both tests i.e 2013 and 2015 and then take their average. Need to exclude all other benches.
 
W

wachie

Member
Dictator93 said:
I mean, the maxwell architecture does things like tessellation and compute a lot better. So if a game uses those things, it will skew the performance to be more lopsided.
Click to expand...
Well obviously Maxwell would be better than Kepler, its a new architecture. The comparison point isnt between Maxwell and Kepler here, it's between Kepler and the AMD counterparts.
 
F

FunkyLounge

Member
AMD releases Project Cars drivers 1 month after launch of the game, which improves performance.

"Nvidia GPUs aged really bad during the last month compared to AMD"

That's basically what I see, am I missing something here?
 
C

CypherSignal

Member
Why the heck is anyone looking at relative performance for this sort of thing?! Are the older GPUs actually becoming slower in absolute numbers as drivers are updated, or (far more likely) nVidia is focusing their efforts on optimizing various things on their newest cards, causing them to become faster in absolute numbers?
 
E

ezodagrom

Member
Relative performance numbers... maybe they just used different games for the more recent reviews which ended favouring AMD more than the older reviews?
 
P

PumpkinSpice

Banned
CypherSignal said:
Why the heck is anyone looking at relative performance for this sort of thing?! Are the older GPUs actually becoming slower in absolute numbers as drivers are updated, or (far more likely) nVidia is focusing their efforts on optimizing various things on their newest cards, causing them to become faster in absolute numbers?
Click to expand...

Seems like the newest games are getting way more attention in terms of optimizing on the driver side on the latest generation of cards, and older cards aren't. This isn't happening as quickly on the AMD side.
 
R

Rur0ni

Member
FunkyLounge said:
AMD releases Project Cars drivers 1 month after launch of the game, which improves performance.

"Nvidia GPUs aged really bad during the last month compared to AMD"

That's basically what I see, am I missing something here?
Click to expand...
You're onto something.
 
J

jwhit28

Member
Don't own a Kepler GPU, but I noticed a lot of complaining about this issue from Kepler owners trying to optimize Witcher 3.
 
D

Dictator93

Member
wachie said:
Well obviously Maxwell would be better than Kepler, its a new architecture. The comparison point isnt between Maxwell and Kepler here, it's between Kepler and the AMD counterparts.
Click to expand...

I think everyone knew that GCN was better at a number of things than kepler. It was present also at release.

As more games take advantage of core DX11 features... it suffers on kepler and does better on GCN. Especially since games are gears toward the GCN consoles.... hence how they will use these methods more often as a base.

I just do not find anything very surprising.
 
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