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Sony was nervous about Horizon's female protagonist, did lots of focus testing
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
It all comes down to sales and how much money Sony wants to invest. This will be the testament to see how much a AAA game starring a female will sell.
It's why it baffles me MS is releasing Tomb Raider on the same fucking day as Fallout 4. It's like they don't even want to try and make it a big seller compared to Halo 4.
Blops III?
It's why it baffles me MS is releasing Tomb Raider on the same fucking day as Fallout 4. It's like they don't even want to try and make it a big seller compared to Halo 4.
Blops III?
SatelliteOfLove
Member
"You mean we won't burn in eternal fire of extremist hate for this? Perhaps we can have tasteful sexy clothing with the same good result..."
The other important thing we learned is ROBODINOS ARE COOL AND FOR FIGHTING.
This too. "Shut uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuup."
The other important thing we learned is ROBODINOS ARE COOL AND FOR FIGHTING.
This too. "Shut uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuup."
entremet
Member
From a purely business perspective, and that's how these companies think, Sony wasn't wrong thinking that.
Remember Me: bombed
Heavenly Sword: Underperformed
Mirror's Edge: Underperformed
It may be facile reasoning, but that's how many business decisions are made.
Luckily, they have another game a chance.
Remember Me: bombed
Heavenly Sword: Underperformed
Mirror's Edge: Underperformed
It may be facile reasoning, but that's how many business decisions are made.
Luckily, they have another game a chance.
Emperor_Uriel
Member
This is the assumption, but there's no statistical data to prove that a majority of male gamers will overlook a well marketed, critically acclaimed AAA game because the protagonist is female.
Then you have people like me, who will pay far more attention to a game simply because it has a female protagonist.
All of these had metacritic scores in the 70s. A male protagonist wouldn't have helped them.
Are Tomb Raider and Portal the only successful franchises with female protagonists? Outside of visual novels and adventure games.
How do you know that?
Beatboxtaun
Member
It's not that they're nervous about having a female protagonist, but rather will she appeal to the player. Will she be a character that someone will want to play as? This is where this subject gets touchy.
Remember the whole box art thing for The Last of Us where they wanted Ellie to be in front of Joel and went through that struggle?
Well, it's usually a female with appeal, which is sad to say. It is what it is. We loved Beyond's Jodi. She was a bad ass and didn't have to be sexy. Ellie is a young teen. So, the trend may be leading in that direction, but think of Kat, Nariko, Lara Croft,and Bayonetta have that sexual appeal. The character for Horizon does not. The first thing my husband even said was,"Eww, she's ugly." As sad as it is, that's the sad truth that was the first thing that came out of his mouth. We'll see where it goes from here.
Remember the whole box art thing for The Last of Us where they wanted Ellie to be in front of Joel and went through that struggle?
Well, it's usually a female with appeal, which is sad to say. It is what it is. We loved Beyond's Jodi. She was a bad ass and didn't have to be sexy. Ellie is a young teen. So, the trend may be leading in that direction, but think of Kat, Nariko, Lara Croft,and Bayonetta have that sexual appeal. The character for Horizon does not. The first thing my husband even said was,"Eww, she's ugly." As sad as it is, that's the sad truth that was the first thing that came out of his mouth. We'll see where it goes from here.
entremet
Member
The only data they have and use is sales.
When they see multiple games with female protags bombing, that's all the data they need to make a business decision.
For reference, I'm not saying that is right, just explaining the reasoning.
Tomb Raider does well, for example.
FF Seraphim
Member
Unless we count the Last of Us... but we mostly just play as Joel so I cannot think of any other high performing AA-AAA game where you are a female protag other than Mass Effect, but you get a choice if you want to be male or female in that...
entremet
Member
I assure you that's not how executives analyze it.
Dr. Kitty Muffins
Member
Well, she is ugly and slightly masculine. Not overtly, but I can definitely see it.
Lets make that decision after assassin's creed syndicate results , maybe fifth times the charm.
Applesauce
Boom! Bitch-slapped!
Hmm, a robot dino-hunting archer with a close resemblance to Ygritte set in a post-post apocalyptic setting?
Yeah, there isn't any way I'm not buying this day 1.
Yeah, there isn't any way I'm not buying this day 1.
Emperor_Uriel
Member
But again, those "bombs" all received weak review scores.
When a poorly reviewed game with a male protagonist bombs, it's because it wasn't a good game. When a poorly reviewed game with a female protagonist bombs, it's because the protagonist was female.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
The only thing that matters is if she's interesting and well written. Everything else is just noise. Her design is interesting, but I have to wait and play to her to find out more about her. Don't think I want to know any more before playing the game myself though...
We only had Tomb Raider so far. And that was succesful.
boredandlazy
Member
I really would love a minority female lead in a AAA title. I can't think of any female lead that wasn't white in a AAA title.
Remember me, perhaps?
Pai Pai Master
Banned
Lol in what world is this an ugly person?
When the few female protagonist that exists bombs is when publishers have an issue i would think.
Ghost Slayer
Member
FFXIII (not talk about quality i think sale is very good)
Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep (still count, Aqua is one of the main character)
Resident Evil 1, 3 (Jill)
Maybe it bombed because the game sucked.
It's like saying that since Catwoman was a bad movie, it's impossible to make movies with female leads.
Rats Off To Ya
Banned
Lol in what world is this an ugly person?
2/10 elbows too sharp
TatteredHat
Member
I don't frequent social media much, but here and on reddit I've seen nothing but positivity regarding Aloy so far, it seems like the reception has been overwhelmingly positive.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
No, not even close.
Metroid
Final Fantasy
Streetfighter
The Elder Scrolls
Mass Effect
Saints Row
World Of Warcraft
League Of Legends
Cilization
I mean, I could go on, but to imply having female playable characters actively harms a games success starts leading into huge amounts of disclaimers about "except for games like this, despte our only evidence being mediocre titles versus good titles" territory.
That was anything but AAA.
In the comic book direct sales market (which sells to 18+ males primarily) - female led books have not done well. At all. It's an incredibly pervasive pattern, and one where there's no real ability to try and beat around the issue. What's helping the female-led titles today is the existence of direct downloads via the internet, which is giving them access to demographics they didn't have previously. Video games have the same type of male-dominated demographics that comics do, and the fears of executives re: female leads and sales aren't irrational in the least.
90TilInfinity
Member
It's worth acknowledging Shuhei Yoshida has a history of greenlighting games with female leads, black leads, and so on. For perspective.
depths20XX
Member
The character being female wasn't even a thing I thought about when I watched the gameplay. I just thought, "damn this looks good."
Tomb Raider had awful writing. Especially the characters.
The Reboot did well because: I. it's an Established franchise. II. It hit all the right notes (in terms of being an action/adventure game like Uncharted) III. It had great marketing (besides the PR blunders, but I don't think the mainstream cared about those blunders). IV. The game actually reviewed well, and was seen as a good game. I think your point about well written characters is a valid point. But I think in general, this also showed that, a game that is actually good (not shite), and has a really big push marketing wise, actually has a chance.
Problem is, a lot of games that fail with female leads are: I. Shite games. II. Have bad marketing, or non-existent marketing.
It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy where they believe the marketing Research shows female leads won't appeal to males, and because x games failed, it must be true. Problem is, they themselves are playing a factor in these games failing (especially in the case of not marketing them, or giving them the same budget as a male lead game). I'm not saying that the Marketing research isn't right. Maybe it is. I'm pretty cynical, and am losing hope. Maybe our society as it stands now, males overall really don't want to play a female lead in most titles. Maybe that is true. I don't know. But a lot of the cases where female lead games failed, they weren't good games to begin with, and also weren't even given a proper chance at doing well.
If Horizon ends up being a great game, and it still fails and flops in sales, I will be so devastated. I mean, the game has the best demo/trailer you could possibly want. It has a concept with fuckin Robo Dinosaurs. It has everything you could want. I assume it will have stellar marketing and a full budget for that. If it ends up being a great game and still flops, then I don't know. It's going to really suck. It will only add fuel to the fire with the narrative that female lead games don't do as well as male lead games, so it's not worth the risk and budget throwing a massive AAA budget into a title with a female protagonist. How depressing.
KimonoNoNo
Member
Easy; pack the cover full of Robo-Dinos, because Robo-Dinos are cool.
I suppose being as Sony is investing a fuck-ton of money and resources, they were nervous of everything and anything and just wanted a second opinion.
Emperor_Uriel
Member
Lol in what world is this an ugly person?
In a post-Furiosa world, I see Alloy and other tough, capable, tomboyish women as being far more attractive than the traditional feminine types.
And again, I hope that if they have any intention of including romance in the story, they don't shy away from it because "guys don't want their playable female character kissing a dude because it makes them second-hand gay or something."
In the world of videogames apparently, because she looks like a normal person.
â Narayan
Member
I'm really digging the main character. She is awesome.
Comics in general are doing badly. The flood of movies and TV-series didn't help much.
I haven't read the entirety of the thread, so I don't know how much they're getting slammed for this overall, but it actually makes a lot of sense to me.
They want to cultivate a successful game and a potential franchise, and by the looks of it it seems like they're putting a significant backing financially into it. It only makes sense that they want to be sure that a game starting a female protagonist of the scale will be a worthwhile financial investment. Focus testing in ensuring that having a female protagonist won't negatively impact their sales (I doubt it would) seems like a perfectly natural step.
That said, bring it on, the main character has a very cool look so far, though not much to go on with the personality.
They want to cultivate a successful game and a potential franchise, and by the looks of it it seems like they're putting a significant backing financially into it. It only makes sense that they want to be sure that a game starting a female protagonist of the scale will be a worthwhile financial investment. Focus testing in ensuring that having a female protagonist won't negatively impact their sales (I doubt it would) seems like a perfectly natural step.
That said, bring it on, the main character has a very cool look so far, though not much to go on with the personality.
It annoys me so much that they even had to ask "Is it risky to do a female character?"
I welcome more games with female characters. And hedgehogs, bandicoots, whatever. This industry has got to stop being so 16-34 male centric. It's ridiculous and the business will never grow only focusing on that segment.
It's as if industry decision makers are assuming that anybody outside of that group will only be interested in smartphone/tablet games. Well of course they are, because there's so little aimed at them on console. Chicken and egg.
I welcome more games with female characters. And hedgehogs, bandicoots, whatever. This industry has got to stop being so 16-34 male centric. It's ridiculous and the business will never grow only focusing on that segment.
It's as if industry decision makers are assuming that anybody outside of that group will only be interested in smartphone/tablet games. Well of course they are, because there's so little aimed at them on console. Chicken and egg.
JimmyRustler
Gold Member
Not that, but perhaps prefer an other game over this.
Dunno why it's hard for people to believe that the gender of the protagonist does make a difference. Especially in gaming or to be more precise AAA gaming. Most of the people that buy these games are male. For a male it's easier to identify with a male protagist. So yeah, naturally most males will prefer games with male protagists.
Agreed. Bald white guy is boring when EVERY GAME has that as the main character. The main character in Horizon looks amazing. Imagine how boring it would be if you insert bald white guy. It would have ruined the game.
It's really weird that Sony thought it was a "risk" to have a female main character. Lara Croft has been very successful.
how many main female comic book movies have we had since then. All i can think of is Elektra and that did terrible as well. I think its been like 10 years since then