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[Cosmonaut X]

I could see where, because they don't need/have to do something like that, they don't have as many collaborative projects because of the NX ecosystem. Right now, they're doing them to help fill in software gaps (along with spin-offs people would never ask for) on their systems, Wii U in particular.

Well, certainly - if you can free up a huge chunk of your workforce and target a single platform/ecosystem, the need to fill gaps with outsourced/collaborative projects eases. I doubt collaborative projects would disappear though, as Nintendo seem to recognise that other developers have talents and specialisms that they don't, and they seem to have built some very solid relationships with other teams over the years.

 

[American Eskimo]

Dreamcast was sold at a steep loss and still sold like crap. It's a bad comparison for this reason.

If the Wii U had retailed as a major loss leader like the Dreamcast and was $200-$250 instead of $300-350, I"m sure they would have sold notably more. Not PS4 levels, but certainly not the levels they are at now.

Nintendo needed to choose between "sell more systems and lose tons of money" and "sell terribly but tread water financially." They chose the latter.

Dreamcast would have done very well had Sega been able to hold on one more year. They sold better than Gamecube and Xbox in Holiday 2001, if my memory is correct.

The 2001 lineup was very, very solid.

I mean just look at this!

Published by Sega alone:

NHL 2K2
90 Minutes: Sega Championship Football (Europe only)
Rez (Europe, Japan)
Shenmue II (Europe, Japan)
Headhunter (Europe)
Fighting Vipers 2 (Europe, Japan)
Bomberman Online
NBA 2K2
Tennis 2K2
Phantasy Star Online Ver. 2
NFL 2K2
Ooga Booga
NCAA College Football 2K2
Sega Bass Fishing 2
Virtua Athlete 2000
Alien Front Online
World Series Baseball 2K2
Floigan Bros. Episode 1
Outtrigger
Sonic Adventure 2
Crazy Taxi 2
18 Wheeler: American Pro Trucker
Confidential Mission
Daytona USA
Sega Smash Pack Vol. 1
Phantasy Star Online
The Typing of the Dead


Thats ALL Sega, ALL 2001 - and doesnt even include the quirky Japan only games like Cosmic Smash, Advanced Daisenryaku 2001, Guruguru Onsen 2, J.League Spectacle Soccer, Hundred Swords and Candy Stripe.

I mean, look at this gem!

Segagaga (セガガガ Segagaga?, Stylized "SGGG") is a role-playing video game developed by Tez Okano of Sega and released solely in Japan for the Sega Dreamcast on March 29, 2001, towards the end of the console lifespan.

Segagaga's storyline parodies the commercially unsuccessful Dreamcast console - the player is recruited by Sega in a last-ditch effort to stop the evil DOGMA company from taking over the console market. The game, interspersed with animated cut scenes, features numerous cameos by Sega characters and games, as well as a variety of gameplay styles.

And don't forget last minute cancellations like Propeller Arena!

Has Nintendo released that many games in three years!?!

And what's even more impressive is that in 2001 they also released third party games!

Super Monkey Ball! Like 20 Xbox games such as Gunvalkyrie, Jet Set Radio Future, and Panzer Dragoon Orta which obviously began production on Dreamcast and came out early 2002 on Xbox.


This is why I am very annoyed at Nintendo. A failing company like Sega was able to pump out 30 games in a single year, and Nintendo struggles with a lineup of, what, 7 games?

 

[Mohonky]

Well yeh, they didn't show a single thing that interested me.

That Metroid game looked like garbage and Star Fox just plain looked terrible by Nintendo standards. I dont think they showed anything even worth mentioning. After all the stellar games they've had on Wii U, this was a complete non-event.

 

[Megidolaon]

It wasn't so bad for me. It was hurt by the lack of Zelda Wii U, though.

I'm hyped for Fire Emblem, and it was nice to see more of #FE and XCX. Star Fox looked cool and and the rest was inoffensive enough. Would have been cool to get a new Mario platformer.

The Metroid game shouldn't have had Prime in the title, it was a bad idea.

 

[kunonabi]

Dreamcast would have done very well had Sega been able to hold on one more year. They sold better than Gamecube and Xbox in Holiday 2001, if my memory is correct.

The 2001 lineup was very, very solid.

I mean just look at this!

Published by Sega alone:

NHL 2K2
90 Minutes: Sega Championship Football (Europe only)
Rez (Europe, Japan)
Shenmue II (Europe, Japan)
Headhunter (Europe)
Fighting Vipers 2 (Europe, Japan)
Bomberman Online
NBA 2K2
Tennis 2K2
Phantasy Star Online Ver. 2
NFL 2K2
Ooga Booga
NCAA College Football 2K2
Sega Bass Fishing 2
Virtua Athlete 2000
Alien Front Online
World Series Baseball 2K2
Floigan Bros. Episode 1
Outtrigger
Sonic Adventure 2
Crazy Taxi 2
18 Wheeler: American Pro Trucker
Confidential Mission
Daytona USA
Sega Smash Pack Vol. 1
Phantasy Star Online
The Typing of the Dead


Thats ALL Sega, ALL 2001 - and doesnt even include the quirky Japan only games like Cosmic Smash, Advanced Daisenryaku 2001, Guruguru Onsen 2, J.League Spectacle Soccer, Hundred Swords and Candy Stripe.

I mean, look at this gem!



And don't forget last minute cancellations like Propeller Arena!

Has Nintendo released that many games in three years!?!

And what's even more impressive is that in 2001 they also released third party games!

Super Monkey Ball! Like 20 Xbox games such as Gunvalkyrie, Jet Set Radio Future, and Panzer Dragoon Orta which obviously began production on Dreamcast and came out early 2002 on Xbox.


This is why I am very annoyed at Nintendo. A failing company like Sega was able to pump out 30 games in a single year, and Nintendo struggles with a lineup of, what, 7 games?

Nintendo actually have a craptonne of studios that do work on 2-3 games at a time. In the last 5 years (2011 to end of 2015), Nintendo have/will have published/funded

36 Wii U Retail titles
10 Wii U Download titles
17 Wii titles
7 DS titles
59 Nintendo 3DS retail titles
30 Nintendo 3DS download titles

That's a total of 159 titles developed or paid for (with those games, Nintendo SPD typically have oversight and aid in development, too) by Nintendo in four years. Care to state they don't do enough again?

Might help to read threads before posting obvious nonsense. A bunch of those SEGA titles also happen to be arcade ports as well.

 

[Entryhazard]

That really isn't the exact same statement.
They can support two platforms. On average, there has been one retail game published by Nintendo each month on both their formats.

Nintendo can support platforms, they just need third party support to fill the gaps. Just because they don't have third parties doesn't mean they cannot support the platforms and that's why this statement of "Nintendo need to drop one of them as they can't support both" is ridiculously erroneous.

But software droughts still happened, and they need to do something about it

 

[purdobol]

This is why I am very annoyed at Nintendo. A failing company like Sega was able to pump out 30 games in a single year, and Nintendo struggles with a lineup of, what, 7 games?

This is not fair comparison. Development cycle now is tad longer than it was in 2001.
Times when developers could pump out game within 1-1,5 year are gone.

 

[Hero of Legend]

I think Nintendo could’ve put on a better show had they not shown so much in advance.

The following is a scenario where Nintendo saved certain things for E3, and tweaked the way they presented other things:

+ Open with Star Fox Zero, but immediately say it’s a collaboration with Platinum Games. And say that the gameplay is the focus right now, targeting 60 fps (according to the IGN article), and the graphics will continue to improve until launch. Split the developer story between Miyamoto and Platinum.

+ Smash logo appears! In this scenario, Smash DLC was NOT shown early. Trailer plays for Roy. Sakurai appears onscreen and quickly explains Roy, and notes Roy and Lucas will be available after the Digital Event. He also quickly notes new stages and Mii Fighter outfits will be available, as well. And I mean quickly: Like all of the Mii Fighter outfits are shown onscreen at once, next to their franchise logos.

- Moving on: Explicit confirmation that The Legend of Zelda is still in the works for WiiU. In the meantime: A look at Triforce Heroes, with immediate confirmation that it has both single-player and online (something they took a while to say). Followed by Hyrule Warriors Legends, which in this scenario, wasn't leaked early by Koei-Tecmo.

- An unexpected bombshell (for English-speaking audiences): Mother 1, fully localized as EarthBound Beginnings, available on the WiiU eShop immediately after the Digital Event.

- Moving on: Metroid Prime: Federation Force, featuring Blast Ball, with the following statement upfront: “We continue to work on ideas for new Metroid games, both 2D and 3D. We hope to have something for you soon. In the meantime, enjoy this new concept inspired by the world of Metroid.”

- An unexpected announcement (for English-speaking audiences): Fatal Frame: Maiden of Black Water, which in this scenario has its localization confirmed at E3, rather than a prior Direct. Follow this up with a new look at Devil’s Third, which in this scenario, wasn't shown a few weeks earlier. And follow this up with Bravely Second End Layer, also saved for E3 in this scenario.

- Show off Shin Megami Tensei x Fire Emblem — in this scenario, for the first time. Yes, that means the earlier Direct would’ve been shorter, and yes, the audience reaction would still be mixed. But anything with “Atlus x Intelligent Systems” in the headline would garner interest. Also remember, for several years this game had borderline mythical status, where people weren’t sure it was still in development. It could’ve been a TLG-like payoff if saved for E3 — much smaller in scale, of course, but still buzz-worthy.

- Show off Fire Emblem Fates and confirm the two versions upfront. Not a plus for everyone but still a point of interest.

- Still on Japanese stuff: Yo-kai Watch coming to the west, Xenoblade Chronicles X this Christmas, etc. Show off Monster Hunter X — not sure if it’s confirmed for the West, but if this had been shown here instead of the earlier Direct, it would’ve made waves.

- Merge the Animal Crossing content into one smaller segment: Happy Home Designer, and on a side note, Animal Crossing Amiibo Festival, each with amiibo integration.

- Drastically shorten the Yoshi’s Wooly World segment. Save the developer story for a post-show YouTube release. For the Digital Event, simply have a trailer showing off a huge variety of levels in rapid succession.

- A short segment about Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam. A short segment about Mario Tennis Ultra Smash. The time saved here would help slot in the new additions like Fatal Frame and SMT x FE.

- Ditto for Super Mario Maker. They can have a bit of explanation, but save the philosophy by Shiggy and friends for another time. For the Digital Event, simply have a trailer showing off many crazy levels and enemy combinations.

- “One more thing.” This is where they close by showing Ryu in Smash, with a trailer and explanation. Also show off the accompanying stage, and say Ryu is available alongside Roy and Lucas right after the Digital Event. In this scenario, Nintendo actually managed to keep Ryu and Roy a secret.

Had Nintendo played their cards this way, I think the show would’ve gone a great deal better. Still not Sony level with the TLG/FFVII-R/S3 wombo combo, of course, but still buzz-worthy.

VERY well said. Also add in Mario & Sonic's unveiling here, and you forgot LBX!

Also the amiibo stuff got Yoshi should've also been saved for here since it's pretty special.

So yeah, this could've been so well done if they took what they did show and just saved it all for here and paced it far better.

 

[JoeM86]

But software droughts still happened, and they need to do something about it

Never said they didn't. They need to space titles out better. While it averages to one per console per month, that's certainly not how it was.

 

[Shiggy]

Never said they didn't. They need to space titles out better. While it averages to one per console per month, that's certainly not how it was.

That's what they've been doing in Europe. MM3D and Codename Steam were released almost a year after being localised. They've also been sitting on Art Academy Atelier and Yoshi for a while now.

 

[Azure J]

This is true, the thing holding metroid prime 4 that nintendo no longer has any clue whatsoever, what the factors are, that makes metroid, metroid, to its fan base of 1-3 million.

And Tanabe is NOT helping constantly spouting off about the garbage that caused the loss of focus that ultimately ruined the series, like talking about how we are going to flesh out the federation, and Sylux's complicated relationship with samus, "Theres definately something going on there", It doesnt matter what it is, its not world design, and its not going to make up, for the lack of design metroid has been suffering from. Or another garbage echoes gimmick that seriously crippled the design and pacing of the second game compared to prime (The ONLY way this will not end up being garbage is if it is something that is completely under player control, like a beam or bomb that reverses or advances time in preciely the location the player uses it, skyward sword time stone style, but it will be another bullshit portal set up, which will just be garbage we will have to endure to find the occasional peanuts of metroid goodness still occasionally sprinkled within)...

Instead of instilling confidence by talking about a game world designed around a host of innovative new abilities, which, upon aquiring, changes the players perspective on how he once viewed the places he hass been to, and opens up new venues for critical thinking and problem solving for progression in the game, leading to an immense feeling of triumph and satisfaction upon discovering a new place to go, and the anticipation and excitement that comes with seeing what then lies beyond the next turn or door. IE METROID.

This is the most offensive thing in the thread so far. I can understand dislike for the mechanic but Echoes' complexity of world design and atmosphere is something intrinsically linked to the different dimension ideas and Tanabe has my full support if he intends to basically "do that but bigger/better" for the next Metroid title he directs/supervises.

 

[Chaos17]

You know, I still think Nintendo had an overall excellent showing this E3...except for the Digital Event, which was unfortunately the only thing that mattered. I mean, if we look at this entire week, we had a Smash Direct that revealed 2 returning members of Smash plus an all new character and new stages, the NWC which was one of the best advertising campaigns I've seen for a video game since the last NWC, and three days of Nintendo Treeehouse Streaming that, asides from the one game that shall not be mentioned, was generally well received. It was a shame that the one thing that mattered was the one where they dropped the ball on most because that blemish is the only thing people are talking about.

It's because most of the people don't watch anything beside those big conferences. You can easely see that in the ranking EA conferences thread (that got buried though).

 

[Toxi]

It's because most of the people don't watch anything beside those big conferences. You can easely see that in the ranking EA conferences thread (that got buried though).

The E3 conference thread is talking about the E3 conferences? Say it isn't so!

 

[Solid SOAP]

I find it funny to see people posting their DREAM E3 conference from Nintendo... that shows all the games they already announced just... a bit different. What are these types of people in this hobby for? The games were announced, they're coming out VERY soon... what difference does it make how they were revealed? You're all gonna buy em anyway.

 

[megabytecr]

I was disappointed in this E3, more the Digital Event, but the whole thing too.

I admit that my disappointment has to do with expectations, but they missed a great chance to show support for Wii U. I understand that it is a business and that 3DS is doing better, but also 3DS needs less help, it has a bigger library and more 3rd party support. The ones who bought a Wii U need to feel supported, and I think this was the biggest issue with this E3.

The Starfox reveal was pretty disappointing, I am about gameplay, but man those graphics scream budget title, I hope it is improved, they still have some time. I have watched more gameplay and it does look like fun, and runs smooth, 60fps helps a lot, even with the visuals, but I hope the game improves, I will give it the benefit of the doubt. This reveal coupled with a lack of a great surprise on Wii U pretty much sealed the disappointment.

I need to see more from Mario Tennis, but I don't think it is my kind of game.

For the rest of the year, we have a solid lineup on Wii U, I have to catch up on some other games, but Yoshi, Super Mario Maker, Xenoblade, Fatal Frame look like great games. Devil's Third could be a case of stupid fun so will check how that ends up. Like I said have to see how Starfox ends up, but Platinum is a good developer so we will see. Considering we got Splatoon also this year, I consider the lineup this year very Solid.

I watched the Treehouse segment for SMT x FE and I am not into those kinds of games but it looked good. For the ones that like these titles how was the gameplay for this game???

I find it funny to see people posting their DREAM E3 conference from Nintendo... that shows all the games they already announced just... a bit different. What are these types of people in this hobby for? The games were announced, they're coming out VERY soon... what difference does it make how they were revealed? You're all gonna buy em anyway.

Conferences are for perception and promises, I also think the immediate games are more important, but this is something Nintendo needs to address, as it affects the image of the company.

 

[RK128]

Everything Nintendo did pushed me into making a video summing up my thoughts about all the stuff they did at the convention. Here is a link to the video here (please mind the so-so quality and the audio issues I plan on fixing in future videos I upload).

I feel that there E3 was fine overall (like I mentioned a few times in the many Nintendo threads this week), but they did a horrible job ensuring people that the Wii U is fine despite it having a solid line up for the remainder of the year :l.

I'm sure they will have a better E3 next year but a lot of people are upset sadly .

 

[American Eskimo]

This is not fair comparison. Development cycle now is tad longer than it was in 2001.
Times when developers could pump out game within 1-1,5 year are gone.

I disagree.

Does a game like Zelda take longer to make than Zelda 64? Absolutely.

But do you really think Animal Crossing Amiibo world has a long development cycle? The game literally looks like they picked up the assets from the Wii version and stuck on tiles. Summer interns could have done that during their 3 month project cycle. It's no more work than the annual Mario Party release, which be definition has a cycle of elss than 12 months.

How about Mario Tennis? Im excited, but again, it looks identical to the Wii game. From what they showed, development could have started in January.

Im not saying thats a bad thing: Im saying if Nintendo is struggling to get out big titles due to 3 year development cycles, they need more of these 11 month cycle games.

The problem is that they came to E3 with 5 rush jobs...and 1 game with a lengthy cycle (Star Fox).

If you're going to try and distract us with rush jobs, at least have one of them a month.

Hell, throw in Yoshi Puyo Puyo World, Nintendo Carp Fishing, and Bomberman Generations 4. Now your lineup actually looks and feels full, even though each budget is like $100,000.

Might help to read threads before posting obvious nonsense. A bunch of those SEGA titles also happen to be arcade ports as well.

Uh, excluding $2 download games, that's less than 24 titles a year across two platforms.

I showed you a list where Sega did 35 games in 1 year, when they were in financial ruin.

So might help to do the math before posting obvious nonsense

 

[Empyrean Heaven]

I find it funny to see people posting their DREAM E3 conference from Nintendo... that shows all the games they already announced just... a bit different. What are these types of people in this hobby for? The games were announced, they're coming out VERY soon... what difference does it make how they were revealed? You're all gonna buy em anyway.

Because presentation and marketing is everything. The iPhone, despite being inferior specs-wise to many competing devices on the market, is still the most dominant single smartphone in the world. Why? Because Apple has marketed it at the right demographic, the 15-30 year olds who have tons of money, as a device that will be befitting your social status, or possibly increase it.

Abercrombie and Fitch CEO Mike Jeffries said it best.

In every school there are the cool and popular kids, and then there are the not-so-cool kids...Candidly, we go after the cool kids. We go after the attractive all-American kid with a great attitude and a lot of friends. A lot of people don’t belong [in our clothes], and they can’t belong. Are we exclusionary? Absolutely.

Right now, Sony, Microsoft - they're the cool kids, while Nintendo is seen as the dork that gets bullied on the bus, thrown in their locker, and robbed of their lunch money. Unfortunately, Nintendo themselves seems to be oblivious to, and even sometimes corroborate his fact. And while a Nintendo fan may look at it objectively and say that there's plenty of games coming out that should be great - and there are - to the average consumer they're that kid that lives in their parents basement collecting My Little Ponies. People want to belong, they want to be cool, and that's what Apple, Sony and Microsoft promise. Whether they say it or not, they are trying to be exclusionary, but in a way to make people say "I want this product so I can be cool!"

 

[Exile20]

wrong thread

 

[purdobol]

Hell, throw in Yoshi Puyo Puyo World, Nintendo Carp Fishing, and Bomberman Generations 4. Now your lineup actually looks and feels full, even though each budget is like $100,000.

This still would not make people happy though. More cheap cash ins would get things worse. People would complain "why they are making so much shovelware? they should focus on something bigger..."

There are 3 games I can think of that people want that could be done relatively quickly (and that's wild guess).
Mario Strikers, Rhythm Heaven Fever and Animal Crossing. Maybe Harvest Moon.
But the likes of Paper Mario, Metroid, Kirby etc takes long time to develop to be any good.

I agree that they missed the mark with Amiibo Animal Crossing and Mario Tennis. Strikers and regular Animal Crossing would be so much better.

 

[American Eskimo]

This still would not make people happy though. More cheap cash ins would get things worse. People would complain "why they are making so much shovelware? they should focus on something bigger..."

There are 3 games I can think of that people want that could be done relatively quickly (and that's wild guess).
Mario Strikers, Rhythm Heaven Fever and Animal Crossing. Maybe Harvest Moon.
But the likes of Paper Mario, Metroid, Kirby etc takes long time to develop to be any good.

I agree that they missed the mark with Amiibo Animal Crossing and Mario Tennis. Strikers and regular Animal Crossing would be so much better.

I disagree. If you only have cheap cash ins, it's a problem, but as fillers, theyre perfect. Nintendo has always used games like Mario Party and Pokemon Stadium to plug in gaps. Minimal dev time, but big sales.

Fuck, where the hell is Pokemon Stadium?

What was the last good fishing game we got on any platform?

Everybody loves Puyo Puyo.

Everybody loves 12 player Bomberman.

And a cheap budget doesnt mean a cheap experience.

 

[Version 3.0]

That really isn't the exact same statement.
They can support two platforms. On average, there has been one retail game published by Nintendo each month on both their formats.

Nintendo can support platforms, they just need third party support to fill the gaps. Just because they don't have third parties doesn't mean they cannot support the platforms and that's why this statement of "Nintendo need to drop one of them as they can't support both" is ridiculously erroneous.

That's quite a head-in-the-sand view. Two games per month is, indeed, a large output for a publisher. But it's a completely unacceptable, dead-in-the-water schedule for a platform. And for Nintendo's platforms (the Wii U in particular), those are too close to being the same thing.

Let's re-word the statement, then, to this: Nintendo's platforms (again, the Wii U in particular) do not receive enough games. And then let's acknowledge that it's Nintendo's responsibility to ensure that they do. Whether that comes from their own studios, outsourced projects or licensed 3rd parties is a secondary consideration. People only point to Nintendo's own output because 3rd party support is clearly quite low, and the only solution under Nintendo's direct control would be their own output.

But Nintendo has not made sufficient progress in providing support for their platforms by any means available to them. Having a significantly smaller game library than their competition has been their primary problem for the last 20 years.