Isn't it? It sure looked like it in the stream. If not then...carry on, ignore me. I am a fool.
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Nintendo explains why you can't play as a woman in Zelda: Tri Force Heroes
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
Linkstrikesback
Member
I don't think so, but we were specifically talking about skyward sword, where they were kinda responsible for populating Hyrule and having to have descendants to be cursed by Demise. The following children could go anywhere, and are of course under no requirement to be related to both current Zelda/Link at whichever point in the timeline you're looking at
But both skyward sword Link and Zelda had to have children and they quite blatantly had them together.
A Black Falcon
Member
So basically, the 'explanation' is the usual one from Nintendo -- they are sexist and don't understand gender equality. They made a few good steps in the right direction a few years ago, when they added female playable characters to Mario 3D World, Donkey Kong Country Returns: Tropical Freeze, Pikmin 3, and more, but it's frustrating to see some backsliding here. Nintendo just doesn't get the concept of gender equality; they're very traditional in that respect, and not in a good way. I love Nintendo, but this might be the worst thing about them. 'If we make a game where you play as a male but women also like playing the game too that's fine', seriously? That's not good enough.
On a related note, for instance, Nintendo showed almost no major titles in their E3 Digital Event with playable female main characters -- I think that the Animal Crossing games, Xenoblade Chronicles X, Mario Tennis Wii U, Fire Emblem IF, and Hyrule Warriors 3DS are the only ones. That's pretty sad... because very few were shown in the major titles, none from EAD games unless they're making the Animal Crossing boardgame thing -- not Star Fox Zero (we're back to Star Fox 64's cast), not Mario Maker (unless you count those Amiibo costumes, but aren't those supposed to be just outfits?), not Yoshi (seriously, this one makes no sense, but Nintendo has never said Yoshis are anything other than male), not Zelda: Triforce Heroes, not the SMTxFE game, not Paper Mario... etc. It's hard to tell in Metroid Prime Federation Force, but most are probably male I'd guess. Note how the major first-party 'tentpole' games are male only -- Star Fox, Mario, Yoshi, Zelda; only the party games, games by outside teams (ie not EAD), and such have female leads available.
On a related note, for instance, Nintendo showed almost no major titles in their E3 Digital Event with playable female main characters -- I think that the Animal Crossing games, Xenoblade Chronicles X, Mario Tennis Wii U, Fire Emblem IF, and Hyrule Warriors 3DS are the only ones. That's pretty sad... because very few were shown in the major titles, none from EAD games unless they're making the Animal Crossing boardgame thing -- not Star Fox Zero (we're back to Star Fox 64's cast), not Mario Maker (unless you count those Amiibo costumes, but aren't those supposed to be just outfits?), not Yoshi (seriously, this one makes no sense, but Nintendo has never said Yoshis are anything other than male), not Zelda: Triforce Heroes, not the SMTxFE game, not Paper Mario... etc. It's hard to tell in Metroid Prime Federation Force, but most are probably male I'd guess. Note how the major first-party 'tentpole' games are male only -- Star Fox, Mario, Yoshi, Zelda; only the party games, games by outside teams (ie not EAD), and such have female leads available.
WrenchNinja
Member
It's shitty writing apparently to have people with different skin colour
I'm sorry am I in a Witcher 3 topic? What is the internal logic here? Other skin colours can't exist because reasons?
Mango The Magician
Banned
Blaze the cat started as a female counterpart to Sonic, there's no reason Zelda can't do the same thing or something similar, there's no reason why the issue with the lack of playable female characters has to fall solely on the series most popular male character's shoulders.
That's not all they've done. Expressions are part of the character building. They have their own thoughts and emotions and relationships that build up fairly strong characters without the need for explicit dialogue.
Jimnymebob
Member
I agree with you here. There isn't really any reason why a female hero shouldn't be playable, but it's a straight up colour swap. There's no real need for people to be so outraged over this particular case.
While I don't see why they couldn't have modelled a ponytail and eyelashes on the model to provide a female alternative, I don't think that's really achieving anything. A female protagonist in the main series would though.
SkeptiMism
Member
Ah I see what you mean. Thank you. Had to read the OP again.
So basically in multi you aren't playing as Link then. You're just playing as a random hero. I somehow read it as if it was similar to how Assassin's Creed handled it (that everyone is playing as the main character, but other players see other players differently).
Then I think the question was even better to ask. Like, I can see why they have just 3 similar characters there, but still.
I don't think anyone is that outraged about this particular case. Like, people do wonder why it couldn't be done otherwise, but I don't think anyone's that outraged.
I think the bigger thing for people here is that ridiculous answer.
If link is a different person from game to game, how is it implausible for link to be female? I mean at least half of the link lineage would have to be female, right?
And if we're so averse to giving link a darker skin, then how about making a half Hylian/Gerdudo mix? That'd be really interesting. Seems like they didn't have a problem making a Sheika in OOT/SS dark, so why not Hylien/Sheika mix? Or even Hylien/Gerduo/Sheika mix! So many possibilities? Where's the imagination in some people?
Hey, why does a boy with Link lineage have to be the hero? Wait a sec, is Wind Waker link related? I was always under the impression that he wasn't. Though it could of easily ended up being a, 'yep he was a descendant all along" type of thing.
And if we're so averse to giving link a darker skin, then how about making a half Hylian/Gerdudo mix? That'd be really interesting. Seems like they didn't have a problem making a Sheika in OOT/SS dark, so why not Hylien/Sheika mix? Or even Hylien/Gerduo/Sheika mix! So many possibilities? Where's the imagination in some people?
Hey, why does a boy with Link lineage have to be the hero? Wait a sec, is Wind Waker link related? I was always under the impression that he wasn't. Though it could of easily ended up being a, 'yep he was a descendant all along" type of thing.
FiddyShadeJ
Banned
I misread the title as "Nintendo Won't Explain Why You Can't Play as A Woman In Triforce Heroes" lol
RichiRamjag
Member
Because the gaming community needs something to complain about. If it isn't gender diversity, then it's racial diversity or something else.
GiantEnemyGoomba
Member
Just say that Link is a guy and you want to continue representing him as such. It's not the best excuse, but it's better than the terrible answers they usually give about this subject.
I think you could play as a female character in pretty much every game Nintendo had at E3 2014, so it's kinda surprising.
He probably won't.
LegendofLex
Member
I'm sorry but did we play the same game?
There's a reason I said "plot moment" and not "scene." Neither of these images are in fact part of the "plot," i.e. the narrative sequence. Even the competitiveness between Link and Groose is mostly just Link cockblocking Groose, which isn't dependent on Link being male.
SS didn't have a problem introducing non-white Hylians.
I said recent Zelda games, so that would leave out OoT's marriage thread.
TP has no romance plot. The closest thing is Ilia, and even that involves some projection on the part of the player since she only really refers to Link's long and lasting friendship with her. The script would require very little change outside of gender pronoun usage to accommodate a female character.
SS obviously offers romantic undertones, but since the game stops short of an actual romance plot, most of the tender moments between Link and Zelda (including the hand-holding scene shown above but probably not including the "Imma play the tease in your face" scene) could have been sister-like.
Wind Waker Link was not related.
But if you play this game multiplayer (the way it's meant to be played) none of you are Link.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
IIRC Gerudo are usually born female, the one male that's born every hundred years=Ganondorf.
Let me put my fanfic googles and give you a plot line that would more or less make sense.
Zelda game that takes place in a Hyrule similar to the ocarina of time version of Hyrule, Link this time is born as a Gerudo, in fact, he's Ganondorf's twin brother in the first ever ocassion of the millenial male Gerudo actually being twins. At first they're working together to take over the kingdom in the name of the Gerudo race, but Link figures out Ganondorf will bring ruin to the entire kingdom when he becomes Ganon after Zelda gives him a vision while he was supposed to kidnap her, instead they both run away together and Link must embark into an adventure to stop his brother from turning Hyrule to Darkness.
Youy can call it "The legend of Zelda: The two Kings" or something.
Boom, Black link that makes sense-ish.
That's the thing, Zelda has such flexible lore that they can write this shit and not make it "feel like a token".
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
Another ridiculous answer to a ridiculous question.
The main villain in ALBW is female.
balladofwindfishes
Member
The hero of Time's life is fascinating and full of emotion and character development across the three games he's appeared in.
This is the proper way to make a female Zelda game. Just making Link a woman is the worst possible way to do it when the other options are so much better and fit better within the world.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
Because it assumes that just because it's fantasy every single world should be endlessly mutable regardless of the world the creator developed.
People who make this argument strike me as people who only pay attention to it when it intersects their own interests and never pay attention to it otherwise. They seem to think the genre in of itself is worthless. Their understanding of the genre begins and ends at "LOL magic!!!!" and they call it good.
mentallyinept
Banned
Oh man that reminds me, how cool would it be to have a Zelda + Impa focused game where Zelda is being trained to become a Sheikah?
Combine that concept with some crazy PoP/Assassins Creed like parkour movement...
So good.
Mango The Magician
Banned
Alternatively just have a game where we play as a gerudo who isn't link, boom diverse protsg and no controversy.
Finale Fireworker
Member
That's a rather deep reading of a skin-deep character. Not denying that some emotional stuff is going on in Majora's Mask, or that Wind Waker Link doesn't miss his grandma, but Link is like most Nintendo characters: paper thin and one (maybe 1.5) dimensional.
Also it feels like you and I have been going head to head a lot in this thread and I wanted to take a moment to say I mean you no disrespect. I hope we can make our arguments to one another without breeding animosity towards each other.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
The biggest plot twist of Skyward Sword.
And ofc
Their romance is part of the plot.
Ah, my mistake. I didn't bother finishing SS.
I would actually love a game where you play as Zelda. But I don't want it to be a traditional dungeon solving action adventure. I want it to be a Hyrule grand startegy where you manage politics and oversee day to day ruling of Hyrule. Nintendo's take on that genre could be awesome.
I have absolutely no qualms with a female Hero of _____. It's something I actively want in the series. I think Zelda & Impa in HW are BAMF and would love to see something of the sort extended into the mainline games. My issue is primarily that people are demanding hamburger (female Link) when they should be demanding steak (playable Zelda/Impa; new awesome female character). I just feel taking Link, widening his hips and slapping some breasts on him is creatively bankrupt and "weak" to be honest if your aim is representation. Of course I'll still support any Zelda game that does this because most Zelda games are still great but I'm going to be grumpy that Nintendo would choose that path over actual Zelda or an actual new character they had to devote some actual resources to making. That and, as I've said before, I don't view Link as me/an avatar similar to how I didn't view Crono or Serge or 99% of silent protagonists as myself though I recognize not everybody shares that opinion.
One shitty interview with a very shitty answer doesn't mean they are back sliding you silly goose. Then again you've often demonstrated you have a very rudimentary understanding of feminism so I can't say I'm surprised at your post
(You're also wrong about SMTxFE)
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
If it hasn't ever been presented as such, then yes, you'd have to do a lot of heavy lifting to justify such a change in an established world.
It's not impossible, but it certainly can't be handwaved if you want the change to be acceptable to the fans of the existing continuity.
WrenchNinja
Member
What thoughts? "I must be the hero" is not a thought. Emotions like
:'( . That's not deep. Relationships like every girl calling you cute or everyone else calling you a punk kid? But hey the Groose is loose! He went from asshole to hero and it was all thanks to the relationship with Link! Zelda and Ilia are doe eyed for him, because reasons! Fi understands what it means to be human at the very end, some how!
If Link is supposed to be a fairly strong character, then other games that have your character actually express their thoughts and opinions and undergo a character arc must blow your damn mind
mentallyinept
Banned
Oh man... I like this. I like this a lot.
Hmmm... can Ganandorf sex up other races?
'I...am your father, Link!'
'NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!' <if link had dialog...or maybe he'd have like a big-no-face?>
ActuallyHulk
Banned
That's the kind of thing I want to see. I want to see those 7 years she was on the run in OoT. Zelda just interests me like that. The fact that she's a girl doesn't play into it for me. There's just a mystery about her concerning some things and I find that kind of thing irresistible and I want to know more.
SkeptiMism
Member
Yes, people asking for a thing that could be done just fine (as none of the characters in multiplayer aren't Link) is completely ridiculous.
No but seriously, why is it a ridiculous question? Asking it doesn't mean everything has to have women in it.
edit: I'll admit though that the way he asked it is a bit ridiculous.
Yes, gamers just complain about it. There's no point to it, they just complain and complain.
/s
Finale Fireworker
Member
This is the best idea for black Link I've ever heard. So good, great conception from within the established lore and makes for really awesome drama. I love it.
stopthenadness
Neo Member
So.. is everything going to become a gender issue now?
balladofwindfishes
Member
A hero who saved two different worlds, and yet nobody knew about it. He's lived two entire life times, as well. He feels deeply troubled by this, and in a way, a little bitter that he was never considered the hero (which seems uncharacteristic of Link on the surface, but really does make a lot of sense considering the two full lives he's lived). Before he can find rest, he only wishes that he could pass on the knowledge of being a hero.
Majora's Mask developed him further, but Twilight Princess just went above and beyond establishing the Hero of Time as one of the most developed Link's ever. He actually has a personality, we know his life's goals and we know what he's been through and why he can't rest in death.
Nobody can seriously play Ocarina, Majora's Mask and Twilight Princess and then tell me that the Hero of Time was not developed as an actual character.
Well of course, but more than diversity, this was more of an argument for using the inherent flexibility of Link as a mantle kind of character to shape him up.
It's easy to mold Link, like Female link (Windwaker where ganon kidnaps the boys instead of would be zelda girls and as such it's the sister who embarks in an adventure to rescue her brother), Old link (Evil awakens when Link is in his 30s instead of his teens), even customizable link (Link comes from a faraway land where it could be argued people look different), it's more like people are a bit bored with default link when the character is a blank check of possibilities.
Does that mean what I think it means? Ganondorf has the sole responsibility to continue the Gerudo race?
To an extent, it does. I'm in the "would love to see a female Link" camp, and pretending that gender makes no difference at all weakens the case for making that change. You can't completely remove gender from its social and cultural context, or act like it has no affect on our interactions or how we perceive each other. It's almost always part of the story.
In this case, chances are those scenes would have less a romantic tinge, and be more a celebration of female camaraderie. Other layers of meaning may change a bit. I haven't played more than a few hours of Skyward Sword, so I don't actually know, but it's the subtle ways in which a female Link would change the story that make the idea so exciting to me.
Mango The Magician
Banned
Shit you can have two playable protags Zelda and a female gerudo, just don't change Zelda or Link, it's not fucking hard or anything.
SkeptiMism
Member
Asking about it doesn't mean it's a big issue.
But yes, to be honest, there's no reason for why they couldn't have had a female character in the multiplayer.
Asking questions isn't a bad thing either.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
It's been asked before in the same disgenuine way as it has been here.
It's becoming politically correct quota grasping by now instead of respecting the vision of game developers.
Nintendo already has strong female characters in games and will in all likelihood put them into games where they see fit.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
He usually doesn't get a chance to, considering he's born evil and is all about world domination.
No.
