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[Haly]

This came up in the "To Be Black & Woman & Alive" poetry thread, and the point here is to continue and/or stimulate discussion without derailing that one.

Caveats: I use "Asian" here in the, I admit, ethnically insensitive colloquialism for "East Asian" which really just means China/Korea/Japan. Being Chinese and having grew up around Chinese, these are the groups I am commenting on. I do not and cannot offer any opinion on Southeast Asians (Thai, Viet, Indo, Malay, Filipino), Indians, or Western/Arab Asians. But feel free to comment on these groups if you feel qualified to. I am also American, so I will be talking with an American perspective.

I think there is a slight to moderate aversion to Asian men from Asian women. Going by dating site statistics and personal observation, we, as a dating group, are basically competing head to head with White men on this front. This is especially noticeable in urban centers where you'll as often see a White man/Asian woman combo as you'd see an Asian man/Asian woman combo, especially as you leave the Asian enclaves (which, no surprise, are primarily Asian/Asian).

(Aside: White women/Asian men are distinctly rare and I don't need to comment on White/White.)

The way I understand it, and why it's intrinsically different for what happens between (some) Black men and (some) Black women is generally due to our cultural heritage.

Confucian societies are very patriarchal. A male birth is, historically, a joyous occasion. A female birth is motivation to try again, for a boy. Thanks to Western influences on the homeland, this is becoming less and less true. Nonetheless, we have a long history of rigid social hierarchies where women sit consistently below men and practices like patrilineal inheritance, foot binding, and, well, female infanticde.

And so I think the desire to date "outside" for Asian women is a rebellion against that culture, even in its modern, transplanted, vestigial form. It's not that we, as Asian men, are irrevocably doomed to patronize Asian women, but the closer we are to the first gen immigrants of our family, the more of that culture we internalize and it can be... offputting. Many Asian men grow up in rebellion of their culturally and socially conservative fathers, but there are likely as many that don't, who basically become their fathers but slightly more American.

(Aside: We're not very good at assimilation, as far as I can tell. This may contribute to the proliferation of the negative aspects of our heritage.)

At the same time, there is a racial group that is not only exotic (from the POV of Asian women), but also prestigious (this is mildly racist, actually). This same group seems very enthusiastic about dating Asian women, because of the same streak of exoticization (except in the opposite direction). I'm talking about White men, of course.

It's a no-brainer for many Asian women who seek to escape the grip of Confucian patriarchy.

Finally, I leave these OKCupid snapshots of online dating in 2009 and 2014, which apparently contradict what I think I know, to further incite debate and discourse on this subject.

 

[Sou Da]

Good lord that chart really puts the other thread in perspective.

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

Those men rating black women statistics are confusing and sad

Sorry to derail right off the bat

 

[ezrarh]

What's funny is that part of the reason my Mexican girlfriend is going out with me is that I'm not as patriarchal as Mexican men. I am more Americanized though.

 

[Haly]

What's funny is that part of the reason my Mexican girlfriend is going out with me is that I'm not as patriarchal as Mexican men. I am more Americanized though.

I'm glad you posted this because I think perception plays a big part. Asian men are just so close, culturally, to Asian women that the proximity enough to cause them to seek alternatives. It could be the same for your girlfriend and you.

 

[genjiZERO]

I dunno. I know it's anecdotal, but I'd say over the years at least 40% of all the Asians-Americans I know (including East Asians, South East Asians and Pacific Islanders) ended up in inter-racial marriages evenly split between men and women.

Thinking about it... Of my undergrad male roommates (or close friends) only three and a half married other Asians. A Korean friend married a mixed Korean-white girl, a Thai friend married a Vietnamese girl, a Filipino friend married a Thai girl, and Vietnamese guy is still single. But all the others have ended up with White girls (and one guy married a black girl). Although interestingly when we were in undergrad all of them dated other Asians.

This is also approximately true for the male friends I've made subsequently as an adult - although my sample size has shrunk a bit because I have more South Asian, White and Black friends now. Actually, my friend group now is two Korean guys, a Indian guy and a Pakistani guy. One of the Korean guys and the Pakistani guy married Korean and Pakistani girls, respectively. But my Indian friend married a white girl and the other Korean guy pretty much just dates white girls.

Now this doesn't include the Asian-Asians I know. And there, definitely there is more of an imbalance. Also I find amongst Desi-Americans they tend to mostly stay within group too.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

I'm confused what you're using to prove your point. The most recent shows Asian women preferring Asian men by a decent percentage.

 

[guek]

Yellow Fever is probably my favorite Wong Fu video.

I was born in socal and spent half my life there before moving to Idaho. There was some aversion to Asian men by Asian women but nothing compared to how undesirable Asian men seemed to be to white women. I struggled with that for a long time but then ended up marrying a white woman anyway

 

[Haly]

I'm confused what you're using to prove your point. The most recent shows Asian women preferring Asian men by a decent percentage.

Finally, I leave these OKCupid snapshots of online dating in 2009 and 2014, which apparently contradict what I think I know, to further incite debate and discourse on this subject.

.

 

[kerotan_eater]

I don't understand OP. A rebellion against the patriarchy of Asian conservatism? That's ridiculous

Asian women, like all women simply prefer white men because of Hollywood and the music industry and the white beauty ideal.

White men like Asian women because ... I dunno, why do you like Asian women? They probably can't explain it either.

I don't think a majority of white men have some racist beliefs like 'oh she'll be submissive.'

Not unless you're forty and looking for a mail order bride. White guys dating Asian girls in the teens or 20s are just dudes who think they look hot.

That really all there is to it. There is no schism, I don't feel pain at all when I see a white guy with an Asian girl, as a matter of fact it makes my heart warm seeing more interracial couples and I'm an Asian dude.

 

[Haly]

Asian women, like all women simply prefer white men because of Hollywood and the music industry and the white beauty ideal.

And does this explain how Black women rate White men as well? Or Black men and White women? There are divisions that exists because of other factors that go beyond popular culture. Not that I think you're definitely wrong but I feel it's a bit reductive,

White men like Asian women because ... I dunno, why do you like Asian women? They probably can't explain it either.

I can, but this isn't really the place for it.

I don't think a majority of white men have some racist beliefs like 'oh she'll be submissive.'

Racismn and exoticization/orientalism (which is discrimination but positive), exist along a gradient. I'm not saying these guys think Asian women are this submissive waifu ideal (except those creep anime guys) because, frankly, just breaking away from cultural expectations demands a certain level of individuality which runs counter to "submissiveness". But yellow fever exists, even among young, liberal-minded populations.

Not unless you're forty and looking for a mail order bride.

You bring up an interesting point. My viewpoint on this may be out of date because I'm not factoring in newer waves of immigrants, their background, and their perception of this country as well as this country's evolving perception of them. It may very well be different for the more recent waves. That's part of why I made this thread. I'm interested in hearing what people have to say about this.

 

[YoungHav]

Strictly anectdotal and I'm not Asian, but where I'm at in NYC Asian women/white men are the most common interracial coupling I've seen amongst NY'ers. Every time I leave Chinatown and see a native English speaking Asian couple, I do a double take.

As far as males go, I've found white men to be the least flexible/open about dating outside their race and more concerned about what their circle thinks about their choice of mate. Asian women are considered "acceptable" due to the model minority stuff so if they're going outside white women, it's almost always Asian women.

One of the biggest face palms I had in the last decade was my asian friend drunkingly admitting she dates white guys only.

 

[Guevara]

What I have heard is that many Asian women have a preference for dating outside of their group, because they feel Asian men will have strict old-fashioned views about the role of women in the relationship.

White men represent an escape from tradition.

 

[Rich Uncle Skeleton]

I don't think Asian women prefer white men. I think they like Asian men just as much (actually a little more according to that OKC chart). It's just that there are way more white people in the U.S. I mean, most left-handed people are probably dating righties, yeah? It's not because they find righties irresistible; there are just more of us.

Anecdotally, my wife says she would've preferred a Chinese guy, other things being equal, for the exact reason that you think Asian women are running away from their race: culture. (She was raised in NY but her parents are culturally Chinese so it'd make family stuff easier.)

 

[Divvy]

I don't understand OP. A rebellion against the patriarchy of Asian conservatism? That's ridiculous

Asian women, like all women simply prefer white men because of Hollywood and the music industry and the white beauty ideal.

White men like Asian women because ... I dunno, why do you like Asian women? They probably can't explain it either.

I don't think a majority of white men have some racist beliefs like 'oh she'll be submissive.'

Not unless you're forty and looking for a mail order bride. White guys dating Asian girls in the teens or 20s are just dudes who think they look hot.

That really all there is to it. There is no schism, I don't feel pain at all when I see a white guy with an Asian girl, as a matter of fact it makes my heart warm seeing more interracial couples and I'm an Asian dude.

No it's not ridiculous. A lot of westernized Asian women are reluctant to marry into another Chinese family because that adds an entire second family of patriarchal pressure to them. There is still a culture of "women should be good, submissive and tend to their husbands, it's traditional" in some families that is at odds with the attitudes a lot of Asian women who grey up in western society. Some women see marrying a white guy a way to get out of that kind of pressure.

What I have heard is that many Asian women have a preference for dating outside of their group, because they feel Asian men will have strict old-fashioned views about the role of women in the relationship.

White men represent an escape from tradition.

It's not just the men, it's their families as well. The family unit is very important in most Asian cultures, and you would definitely be marrying into the family and all the baggage that it comes with

 

[norm9]

I'm Asian and I'm not opposed to dating Asian women. Cool is cool. However, they tend to remind me of my mom and I'm not trying to date my mom so I generally look outside my race first.

Maybe that's how some Asian women feel in regards to Asian guys.

 

[not psycho]

From 2009 to 2014, women all increased ratings for dating someone of the same race, while ratings for Black men from women of other races went significantly down.

10% -> 24% for Asian women rating Asian men
16% -> 23% for Black women rating Black men
11% -> 18% for Latina women rating Latino men
17% -> 19% for White women rating White men

-14% -> -27% for Asian women rating Black men
-4% -> -16% for Latina women rating Black men
-6% -> -8% for White women rating Black men

Women's racial preferences also appear to be stronger than men's in general.

Could be that women are more likely to feel an obligation to their racial community and immediate family when it comes to dating, while men feel more free to do whatever they want. That doesn't explain the recent shift though.

 

[linsivvi]

Finally, I leave these OKCupid snapshots of online dating in 2009 and 2014, which apparently contradict what I think I know, to further incite debate and discourse on this subject.

From what I've observed, OKCupid wasn't very popular in Asian countries in 2009. It became much more popular once the mobile app launched and everyone owns a smartphone.

I think that's why you see a huge discrepancy in their data.

 

[Syriel]

As far as males go, I've found white men to be the least flexible/open about dating outside their race and more concerned about what their circle thinks about their choice of mate. Asian women are considered "acceptable" due to the model minority stuff so if they're going outside white women, it's almost always Asian women.

One of the biggest face palms I had in the last decade was my asian friend drunkingly admitting she dates white guys only.

Women's racial preferences also appear to be stronger than men's in general.

Could be that women are more likely to feel an obligation to their racial community and immediate family when it comes to dating, while men feel more free to do whatever they want. That doesn't explain the recent shift though.

White boys will date women of any race. They're like the Type O- of the dating pool.

I don't know any guys who exclusively date one race of women. I have known more than a few women who restrict dating preferences by race though.

 

[FLAguy954]

White boys will date women of any race. They're like the Type O- of the dating pool.

I don't know any guys who exclusively date one race of women. I have known more than a few women who restrict dating preferences by race though.

This.

I don't think this is fair, especially as a black guy with no preferences when it comes to race.

On topic - I feel like the primary wall is that many women are still scared date outside their race because of what their friends/family think.

 

[Cagey]

Anecdotally, the most exclusive group in dating I've seen (NYC NJ) is Jewish Americans.

 

[not psycho]

White boys will date women of any race. They're like the Type O- of the dating pool.

I don't know any guys who exclusively date one race of women. I have known more than a few women who restrict dating preferences by race though.

From those numbers, Black men have by far the least racial preference.

White men and Latino men are about tied for the second least, then White women and Asian men I think.

 

[CrocMother]

Strictly anectdotal and I'm not Asian, but where I'm at in NYC Asian women/white men are the most common interracial coupling I've seen amongst NY'ers. Every time I leave Chinatown and see a native English speaking Asian couple, I do a double take.

As far as males go, I've found white men to be the least flexible/open about dating outside their race and more concerned about what their circle thinks about their choice of mate. Asian women are considered "acceptable" due to the model minority stuff so if they're going outside white women, it's almost always Asian women.

One of the biggest face palms I had in the last decade was my asian friend drunkingly admitting she dates white guys only.

Really? I would have thought that Asians in general would be the least flexible, as shown in the OP's graph. I see white guys dating everybody. Marrying on the other hand, is a whole different story I imagine.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

That chart really shows how hard black women have it. Everyone else wins some and loses some basically.

 

[WalkMan]

They talk about this a lot over in reddit.com/r/asianmasculinity. The whole concept that asian girls will seek white dudes until they're ready to settle down with some asian male provider.

 

[titiklabingapat]

Anecdotal but I have increasingly seen asian men with women that belong to other races.

 

[Otakumegane]

They talk about this a lot over in reddit.com/r/asianmasculinity. The whole concept that asian girls will seek white dudes until they're ready to settle down with some asian male provider.

Well isn't that some redpill type bullshit.

Also, I live in one of the most heavily concentrated areas of Asians in Michigan. I've seen Asian men with White women before. Asian women and White men do feel a lot more common though.

 

[CapNBritain]

Some of the implications that Asian women want to break free of their culture rub me the wrong way. It sort of assumes that a vast majority of Asian women feel that "Asian" culture is overly patriarchal and must be escaped, when that imposes a limited and slightly racist thought that is in reality different depending on the type of Asian you mean (Chinese vs Vietnamese vs Japanese, etc). It assumes a sort of monolithic cultural prison that Asian people must escape when they're in America.

Truthfully, only a small percentage of the Asian people I know have felt the kind of cultural and familial pressure that would cause such rebellion. And in all of those cases, the reaction was actually not to rebel and date white guys. It was to double down and date within their specific Asian ethnicity in order to maintain the peace. Of course, that is all anecdotal.

I do think there is an asymmetrical representation of asian men vs women, which has been talked about already, but I think it's effects are actually seen on the dateability of both asian genders by non-asians.

 

[HarryKS]

Americano-asian and Europo-asian. Not real ones.

 

[Miletius]

I haven't really seen it myself, but I do know that there are some Asian men out there who complain that it's harder to get girls in general to notice them. Among those though, I feel like they still have the most success with Asian women.

My own personal story, as a mixed (Asian/Latino) man who looks more Asian than Latin is that I get most attention from Asian girls, but I've had some luck with both white and Latin girls noticing me. Currently with a white girl, so I guess I'm one of the rare ones.

I actually feel as though one of the rarer combinations is East Asian man/woman with somebody of Indian/Pakistan Near East couples. Maybe Asian/Asian couples are rarer because we subdivide even within our own category.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

Some of the implications that Asian women want to break free of their culture rub me the wrong way. It sort of assumes that a vast majority of Asian women feel that "Asian" culture is overly patriarchal and must be escaped, when that imposes a limited and slightly racist thought that is in reality different depending on the type of Asian you mean (Chinese vs Vietnamese vs Japanese, etc). It assumes a sort of monolithic cultural prison that Asian people must escape when they're in America.

Truthfully, only a small percentage of the Asian people I know have felt the kind of cultural and familial pressure that would cause such rebellion. And in all of those cases, the reaction was actually not to rebel and date white guys. It was to double down and date within their specific Asian ethnicity in order to maintain the peace. Of course, that is all anecdotal.

I do think there is an asymmetrical representation of asian men vs women, which has been talked about already, but I think it's effects are actually seen on the dateability of both asian genders by non-asians.

Maintain the peace? Isn't that just another way to say they date in their race to avoid conflict?

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

I have to say I preferred Western dudes over Asian dudes when I was younger (past tense on 'preferred', as you can see). It was partly due to wanting to rebel against my parents' wishes / codes and partly cuz I felt as if Asian men were not as secure in their self regard as some Western men. I felt Asian men were somewhat espousing 'traditional' Asian values (which I was rebelling against) or overcompensating in their attempt to be as manly as the White Men.

Naturally, as I grow older, I saw that my perspectives were too simplified and unjust. But it took a while to realise thingies.

My first (and only bf) was white though (it was during my rebellious days). After that, I met my current gf at uni and that's that :>

 

[jerry113]

This came up in the "To Be Black & Woman & Alive" poetry thread, and the point here is to continue and/or stimulate discussion without derailing that one.

Caveats: I use "Asian" here in the, I admit, ethnically insensitive colloquialism for "East Asian" which really just means China/Korea/Japan. Being Chinese and having grew up around Chinese, these are the groups I am commenting on. I do not and cannot offer any opinion on Southeast Asians (Thai, Viet, Indo, Malay, Filipino), Indians, or Western/Arab Asians. But feel free to comment on these groups if you feel qualified to. I am also American, so I will be talking with an American perspective.

I think there is a slight to moderate aversion to Asian men from Asian women. Going by dating site statistics and personal observation, we, as a dating group, are basically competing head to head with White men on this front. This is especially noticeable in urban centers where you'll as often see a White man/Asian woman combo as you'd see an Asian man/Asian woman combo, especially as you leave the Asian enclaves (which, no surprise, are primarily Asian/Asian).

(Aside: White women/Asian men are distinctly rare and I don't need to comment on White/White.)

The way I understand it, and why it's intrinsically different for what happens between (some) Black men and (some) Black women is generally due to our cultural heritage.

Confucian societies are very patriarchal. A male birth is, historically, a joyous occasion. A female birth is motivation to try again, for a boy. Thanks to Western influences on the homeland, this is becoming less and less true. Nonetheless, we have a long history of rigid social hierarchies where women sit consistently below men and practices like patrilineal inheritance, foot binding, and, well, female infanticde.

And so I think the desire to date "outside" for Asian women is a rebellion against that culture, even in its modern, transplanted, vestigial form. It's not that we, as Asian men, are irrevocably doomed to patronize Asian women, but the closer we are to the first gen immigrants of our family, the more of that culture we internalize and it can be... offputting. Many Asian men grow up in rebellion of their culturally and socially conservative fathers, but there are likely as many that don't, who basically become their fathers but slightly more American.

(Aside: We're not very good at assimilation, as far as I can tell. This may contribute to the proliferation of the negative aspects of our heritage.)

At the same time, there is a racial group that is not only exotic (from the POV of Asian women), but also prestigious (this is mildly racist, actually). This same group seems very enthusiastic about dating Asian women, because of the same streak of exoticization (except in the opposite direction). I'm talking about White men, of course.

It's a no-brainer for many Asian women who seek to escape the grip of Confucian patriarchy.

Finally, I leave these OKCupid snapshots of online dating in 2009 and 2014, which apparently contradict what I think I know, to further incite debate and discourse on this subject.

There's a flaw with just using okcupid statistics. There are other dating websites out there that are almost exclusively used by black people to meet and date other black people, asian people to meet and date other asian people, etc...

Okcupid doesn't include that demographic of X race people seeking to date only other X race people.

 

[CapNBritain]

I haven't really seen it myself, but I do know that there are some Asian men out there who complain that it's harder to get girls in general to notice them. Among those though, I feel like they still have the most success with Asian women.

My own personal story, as a mixed (Asian/Latino) man who looks more Asian than Latin is that I get most attention from Asian girls, but I've had some luck with both white and Latin girls noticing me. Currently with a white girl, so I guess I'm one of the rare ones.

I actually feel as though one of the rarer combinations is East Asian man/woman with somebody of Indian/Pakistan Near East couples. Maybe Asian/Asian couples are rarer because we subdivide even within our own category.

For the longest time I assumed only Asian girls would be interested in me. Was legit weirded out the first few times white girls flirted with me. It did not compute.

Maintain the peace? Isn't that just another way to say they date in their race to avoid conflict?

It depends. One girl I know loves black guys but says she will have to settle down with a Chinese guy for her family. Others (like bunny) are strongly influenced by their family and want to settle down with people that they have a lot in common with. And for them that means same race/culture.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

Yeah, sometimes.

I would say that is sad if I wasn't so aware how important family is to a lot of immigrants.

Black guy but personally speaking no one in my family is gonna say shit about who I date but I def know that it is a thing in many other families in my culture.

 

[CapNBritain]

I would say that is sad if I wasn't so aware how important family is to a lot of immigrants.

Black guy but personally speaking no one in my family is gonna say shit about who I date but I def know that it is a thing in many other families in my culture.

I think I'm in the minority, but I have very few Asian who are controlled by their families. Just 3 Vietnamese girls and one Chinese (HK) girl. The whole family pressure thing must be a big deal since so many Asian posters have mentioned it, but it seems weird to me.

It seems that a few posters here have also mentioned buying into or at least hearing about the controlling Asian man stereotype, which supposedly keeps Asian women from dating them. What's funny about this is that it seems to be the opposite of the effeminate, wimpy stereotype, which keeps non-Asian women from dating them. So Asian men have two opposing stereotypes that make them undesirable to women of all colors?

 

[Gotdatmoney]

I think I'm in the minority, but I have very few Asian who are controlled by their families. Just 3 Vietnamese girls and one Chinese (HK) girl. The whole family pressure thing must be a big deal since so many Asian posters have mentioned it, but it seems weird to me.

It seems that a few posters here have also mentioned buying into or at least hearing about the controlling Asian man stereotype, which supposedly keeps Asian women from dating them. What's funny about this is that it seems to be the opposite of the effeminate, wimpy stereotype, which keeps non-Asian women from dating them. So Asian men have two opposing stereotypes that make them undesirable to women of all colors?

I didn't mention asian specifically. Just immigrants. It's a different set of rules when your parents immigrate from a country to the west in my experience. Not with dating but a lot of other things all my friends with immigrant parents got it waaaay tough

I live in Canada but in terms of dating I think a lot of my immigrant family friends parents accepted that we realistically were going to date outside our race given our population vs the mass.

 

[Shai-Tan]

It seems to me growing up in an area with many Chinese is that the girls who date white guys tend to be second generation who maybe don't know Mandarin or Cantonese. It seems like there is less assimilation when there's a large community. One of my mom's friends is a white woman married to a Chinese man though. It's funny hearing her speak Cantonese.

 

[PassiveObserver]

It seems that a few posters here have also mentioned buying into or at least hearing about the controlling Asian man stereotype, which supposedly keeps Asian women from dating them. What's funny about this is that it seems to be the opposite of the effeminate, wimpy stereotype, which keeps non-Asian women from dating them. So Asian men have two opposing stereotypes that make them undesirable to women of all colors?

Some immigrant Asians I know are still very much in the "woman belongs in the kitchen" mindset. Becoming Americanized means becoming meeker and less misogynistic, at least in my experience. It's really only the native Asian-Americans who have to contend with the meek Asian stereotype, because immigrant Asians aren't even looking to interact with non-Asians, much less date them.

 

[Miletius]

I think I'm in the minority, but I have very few Asian who are controlled by their families. Just 3 Vietnamese girls and one Chinese (HK) girl. The whole family pressure thing must be a big deal since so many Asian posters have mentioned it, but it seems weird to me.

It seems that a few posters here have also mentioned buying into or at least hearing about the controlling Asian man stereotype, which supposedly keeps Asian women from dating them. What's funny about this is that it seems to be the opposite of the effeminate, wimpy stereotype, which keeps non-Asian women from dating them. So Asian men have two opposing stereotypes that make them undesirable to women of all colors?

It's I think a combination of being inflexible in your family life while being too flexible outside the family. Traditional masculinity/femininity dichotomy is harder to pin down in the same way I think to certain Asian Culture -- the stereotype is that they are dominating at home while being too wimpy outside (in their job, or in a confrontation with strangers, for example).

So insiders view it as too constricting while outsiders view it as too flexible -- worst of two worlds I guess.

 

[CapNBritain]

I didn't mention asian specifically. Just immigrants. It's a different set of rules when your parents immigrate from a country to the west in my experience. Not with dating but a lot of other things all my friends with immigrant parents got it waaaay tough

I live in Canada but in terms of dating I think a lot of my immigrant family friends parents accepted that we realistically were going to date outside our race given our population vs the mass.

I think the circumstances of immigration also matter. My parents came over in the 70s. So did the parents of many of my friends. There wasn't a lot of controlling there.

I'm sure the circumstances of the immigration and the culture from which they came from also plays a heavy factor. My parents came over for college and while not well off, they weren't penniless. I assume coming over with less creates more of an incentive to be controlling over your kids.

I mean, I've dated other people outside of Chinese-American and outside of Asian-American. Not exposed to a lot of nonAsian Americans outside of where I live, though...

My fiancee has ruined Stitch for me.

And don't you live in SoCal? I mean, there are tons of non-Asians out there!

Spoiler

I also interact mainly with fellow Asians, but it's not a conscious choice I swear!

It seems to me growing up in an area with many Chinese is that the girls who date white guys tend to be second generation who maybe don't know Mandarin or Cantonese. It seems like there is less assimilation when there's a large community. One of my mom's friends is a white woman married to a Chinese man though. It's funny hearing her speak Cantonese.

Interesting. Maybe there is a huge enough split between Asian-Americans who grew up in the 80s & 90s and ones that were sent over in the early 2000s to make applying dating preferences to all of them useless. At least culturally, there is a huge gap between twinkies and Fobs.

Some immigrant Asians I know are still very much in the "woman belongs in the kitchen" mindset. Becoming Americanized means becoming meeker and less misogynistic, at least in my experience. It's really only the native Asian-Americans who have to contend with the meek Asian stereotype, because immigrant Asians aren't even looking to interact with non-Asians, much less date them.

I guess I don't know a lot of immigrant Asians (Fobs?) so I'm not sure what their mentality would be. But not interacting with non-Asians at all seems like a red flag.

It's I think a combination of being inflexible in your family life while being too flexible outside the family. Traditional masculinity/femininity dichotomy is harder to pin down in the same way I think to certain Asian Culture -- the stereotype is that they are dominating at home while being too wimpy outside (in their job, or in a confrontation with strangers, for example).

So insiders view it as too constricting while outsiders view it as too flexible -- worst of two worlds I guess.

Worst of two worlds, sounds about right.

On the other hand, do Asian women have it better or worse than non-Asian women (exclusding black women, who apparently have it worse than everyone). I know Asian women get perved on with the whole yellow fever fetish thing, but is it to a greater degree than all women get perved on? I mean, maybe it just allows the same creepy guys to hit on them, just with a very specific opening line.

 

[Bleepey]

I talked to a cohort of Asian girls about their dating preferences:

British Vietnamese girl: Doesn't date Vietnamese dudes. Thought they reminded her of her brother.
British Chinese: Only dates black dudes. Can't recall her reasons. My vietnamese friend was not amused.
Canadian Filipino: Said Asian men were too controlling
Mainland Chinese Girl: See above
British Chinese girl: Asian dudes never talked to her
Two British Chinese girls: Not attracted to them, but Koreans are apparently sexy

That said there were a couple who didn't give two shits and others who only dated Asian dudes.

 

[kirblar]

Women's racial preferences also appear to be stronger than men's in general.

Probably related to a combo of women being more attuned to social status and related issues, alongside guys just having stronger differences between ethnicities. I'm curious how those rates compare to gay guys and lesbians, actually, given that there's definitely a lot of frustration with race and dating in the gay community. Would help to have additional reference points.

 

[see5harp]

Anecdotal but I have increasingly seen asian men with women that belong to other races.

This, especially so in states like California where the Asian population is somewhat high versus the national average.

 

[CapNBritain]

That makes sense, I guess?

When I was younger I remember a phase when I didn't want to date Asian American men because I felt like a lot of them were influenced by their families and the "Asian culture." I was worried about never being able to live up to some arbitrary standard the family had for me. However, I've never felt like Asian men were too controlling or dominating (then again, if an Asian guy was blatantly misogynistic I'd probably not even be very close to them or give them a chance, so maybe I preemptively filtered out this trait). I was always more worried about the rest of their family (namely, their parents.)



My parents came over in the 80s! They also came over for graduate school, but were pretty poor. & come on, you've seen the demographics of my city. It's like 50% white, 50% Asian... and we self-segregate pretty hard as a city haha.

I wouldn't say we have it better or worse than anyone, but I have no idea because I've never lived anywhere where being Asian was special or different. I'd guess that your ethnicity or color matters much more when you grow up as a localized minority. Other westernized Asian women (looking at you, YesNo!), please contribute .

There was some weird Taiwanese immigration wave in the late 70s/80s. No idea what that was all about. I want to say that all those 80s babies turned out pretty chill, so all the talk of controlling Asian men seems weird, but what do I know?

Also, I never knew there was a large Taiwanese community where you lived. I thought it was mostly Vietnamese. I also didn't know that such a community self-segregated so hard. Definitely different from my childhood.

Canadian Filipino: Said Asian men were too controlling
Mainland Chinese Girl: See above

So rough that this stereotype apparently transcends multiple Asian ethnicities. Man, if I could choose only one stereotype between being too controlling and being meek stereotype, I'm not sure which one I would prefer.

 

[freeofgreed]

It seems that a few posters here have also mentioned buying into or at least hearing about the controlling Asian man stereotype, which supposedly keeps Asian women from dating them. What's funny about this is that it seems to be the opposite of the effeminate, wimpy stereotype, which keeps non-Asian women from dating them. So Asian men have two opposing stereotypes that make them undesirable to women of all colors?

I have noticed this among some of my asian friends, quite the catch 22 huh?

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

That makes sense, I guess?

When I was younger I remember a phase when I didn't want to date Asian American men because I felt like a lot of them were influenced by their families and the "Asian culture." I was worried about never being able to live up to some arbitrary standard the family had for me. However, I've never felt like Asian men were too controlling or dominating (then again, if an Asian guy was blatantly misogynistic I'd probably not even be very close to them or give them a chance, so maybe I preemptively filtered out this trait). I was always more worried about the rest of their family (namely, their parents.)



My parents came over in the 80s! They also came over for graduate school, but were pretty poor. & come on, you've seen the demographics of my city. It's like 50% white, 50% Asian... and we self-segregate pretty hard as a city haha.

I wouldn't say we have it better or worse than anyone, but I have no idea because I've never lived anywhere where being Asian was special or different. I'd guess that your ethnicity or color matters much more when you grow up as a localized minority. Other westernized Asian women (looking at you, YesNo!), please contribute .

Bu-but I did... A lil.

I love bunnies amg. They so fluffy whyyyyyy

...

Oh erm. Yeah, I guess I've had that experience of being the rare and exotic person in my high school here in Australia, when I came over (I'm first generation. My parents are still overseas). I was the only one out of...3 fellow Asians in a class of 26. I think the ratio is much more even now, but idk. I went to catholic high school as well, so not sure how it's like in a public institution.

For me... It was weird. I can't say that I wholly understand the layers of it, even to this day. They treated me well, no doubt. But also very, very stereotypically. But I don't blame them for anything, cuz I hardly comprehend what was going on myself. From the very biased opinion that Asians were good at math (they allowed me to skip two years ahead of math :x) to the jokes about how I was having trouble not seeing people in the eyes when I spoke (some implied that this behavior denoted that I was as submissive as an Asian girl should be), everything was pretty stereotypical but not malicious.

IDK

I guess I feel pretty fortunate for having had nice encounters upon my entry to Australia. Even if those niceness are based on stereotyping my ethnicity.

Is that bad?

I don't really feel comfortable speaking about my experiences sometimes... 😂 cuz I tend to be guilty as charged on some things. Like preferring white men (during my rebellious years) and all that. Haha. iBad

😶

 

[Lone_Prodigy]

.

 

[neojubei]

Yellow Fever is probably my favorite Wong Fu video.

I was born in socal and spent half my life there before moving to Idaho. There was some aversion to Asian men by Asian women but nothing compared to how undesirable Asian men seemed to be to white women. I struggled with that for a long time but then ended up marrying a white woman anyway

So did you marry her because she is white?

 

[Shai-Tan]

Interesting. Maybe there is a huge enough split between Asian-Americans who grew up in the 80s & 90s and ones that were sent over in the early 2000s to make applying dating preferences to all of them useless. At least culturally, there is a huge gap between twinkies and Fobs.

Maybe it's just peculiar to my area/generation. When I was in high school 50% of my class was from HK. It might be different for kids who were a lot younger when they came. But the area I live in (Markham/Richmond Hill is ~50% Chinese) with Asian shopping areas everywhere. In university clubs were also segregated east asian / everyone else