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MercurySteam (CV Lords of Shadow) pitched Metroid FPS to Nintendo for Wii U/3DS
- Thread starter HadesGigas
- Start date
Mithos
Member
What if that was their pitch? ;P :O
Castef
Banned
Duggie_Brown
Member
I'll be one to defend Mercury Steam. Their takes on the Castlevania series were good efforts. I for one enjoyed Lord of Shadows and it was far better than any of the other 3D crap that Konami churned out for that series. Then again I also think Symphony of the Night is over rated with Super Castlevania being the best 2D Castlevania title to date.
With the Big N's guiding hand, I would feel confident that Mercury Steam to create a good 3D and/or 2D Metroid. I don't care what anyone says, Metroid titles are completely different to Castlevania titles in both gameplay and exploration of the environment.
With the Big N's guiding hand, I would feel confident that Mercury Steam to create a good 3D and/or 2D Metroid. I don't care what anyone says, Metroid titles are completely different to Castlevania titles in both gameplay and exploration of the environment.
I never played the Castlevania games they made but they strike me as a studio that does not fit the Nintendo gameplay philosophy so uh... That seems odd. Would be nice for Nintendo to partner with devs that make experiences they themselves do not, but not with Nintendo IPs in my opinion.
It had an unheard of budget for a Castlevania title. Circle of the Moon was indeed 9 years earlier but since it sold in line with LoS with a fraction of it's marketing and budget it doesn't exactly make Lords of Shadows accomplishments look that impressive.
I'm pretty sure when the person you were replying to said LoS killed the series they were talking about the subseries rather than the specific game. Although making it into a AAA series likely doomed it anyway.
Igarashi had a next gen title he was working on prior to Kojima saving LoS from cancelation and having it get the Castlevania name put on it. Since this game was cancelled after Kojima stepped in it likely would have finished development had he not interfered.
Who knows what current day Konami would have done with the series from that point though. I think we would have likely gotten the console title and a couple of handheld games but we really can't do anything other than speculate either way.
More easily replicable, maybe? Though it could also be due to that format having the most room for improvement - there are traditional Metroid games that approach perfection, but Hunters was an unfinished experiment with a couple of interesting ideas.
The only way for Nintendo to benefit from that sort of partnership with MercurySteam would be to absorb the artists who quit during LoS2.
Cosmonaut X
Member
I think the problem is that everyone knows what made Metroid good, but that - given modern game budgets - developing something faithful to that on a modern console might prove too expensive for a relatively small audience.
Alex_Mexico
Member
What? The greatest Metroid game this side of Super Metroid was made by a studio in Texas! Other M's biggest problems came from writhing Nintendo themselves. Team Ninja were just code monkeys at the orders of Sakamoto.
I don't trust Nintendo with Metroid anymore than I do MercurySteam.
Do you have any actual budget numbers? Seems like it's pure conjecture on your part. MercurySteam's comment makes it very clear that it isn't AAA too.
Probably because they all liked Metroid Prime and think it would be better if it was even more like an FPS instead of, you know, just sticking with the Metroidvania-style that Super Metroid pioneered. It would be ironic if Bloodstained actually ends up doing well and shows that people want Metroidvania games despite both Nintendo and Konami basically killing the Metroid and Castlevania games.
I don't think so. The Souls games show very similar level design, atmosphere and environmental storytelling that made Metroid such a great series. Yet, they're created on a very reasonable budget, by a studio that isn't that big. It's just a case of getting the right developers, who know what makes a good Metroid game.
Crab Milk Mickey
Member
After Lords of Shadow, I for one would've been excited to experience a Metroid game with a 7+ hour long tutorial.
Is this normal? I mean, in the industry context, is it normal for a developer to just create a prototype and then show it to the publisher/owner of the IP and wait for approval? I thought it was the other way round (the publisher asks the developer) when it came to established ips.
I know there have been some famous cases of developers just doing exactly that, but I thought it was the exception. It just seems like a case of wasted money even if you can convert that prototype into a new IP.
I know there have been some famous cases of developers just doing exactly that, but I thought it was the exception. It just seems like a case of wasted money even if you can convert that prototype into a new IP.
Alex_Mexico
Member
I don't trust MercurySteam's writers depicting Samus as she deserves. LoS1's story was okay with a couple of great plot twists at the end but overall bad representations of women and the super overused trope of the damsel in distressed with the dead wife. And the less we talk about MoF's and LoS2's mess of a story the better.
Having said that I don't see them making a worse job than Sakamoto so there's always that positive note, right?
Having said that I don't see them making a worse job than Sakamoto so there's always that positive note, right?
DaSorcerer7
Member
Talk about a false equivalence.
Retro is Nintendo. why are you trying to differentiate the two?
And a company (MercurySteam) with with zero history with the franchise vs the company who's created it and had far hits than misses with franchise (2d portable games included) are somehow on equal standing??
WhiteRabbitEXE
Member
People seriously gotta stop saying this. Every single one of Other M's failings can be attributed directly to Sakamoto. Team Ninja on the other hand questioned many aspects, like Wii Remote-only controls, and pushed for less linear design. Sakamoto also wrote the story and decided to go with an unprofessional actress and "subdued" voice direction. Team Ninja really don't deserve the shit they get for Other M; if they had their way we would have actually gotten a far more traditional Metroid with competent controls and professional acting (who knows if the writing would have been better, but honestly it couldn't have been much worse either).
DodgyTaZombie
Member
Im guessing it's just something that makes the most business sense to, making a shooter with multiplayer and an increased focus on world building makes a lot of sense if your trying to prove the financial validity of the idea.
It also provides an answer as to why they,rather than Nintendo itself, should make it. As the studio could argue it has more experience and talent related to this kind of project than nintendo does.
Although I'm properly talking nonsense.
Cosmonaut X
Member
There are a couple of points that I think differentiate here. I think there's a small point to be made that the camera/gameplay/combat of something like Dark Souls is more approachable to a wider audience than the Metroid Prime style which, though it looks like an FPS, operates in a slightly unusual way.
However, I'd point to the multi-platform nature of something like Dark Souls - PS3/360, then a PC release for DS, and DSII on PS3/360/PC/PS4/X1 - as opposed to Metroid which is tied to a single platform as being a bigger factor.
I'd rephrase my original post as:
I am unable to find a budget for the game and perhaps AAA was the wrong term to use and perhaps I am overestimating the game's development cost. however, I think it's pretty apparent that the game had a much higher budget than any of the other games in the series which lead to higher expectations for sales they couldn't meet even on multiple platforms.
Alex_Mexico
Member
I was referring specifically to Samus' portrayal and treating her with the respect and care that she deserves and lacked in Other M. That's the aspect that I trust MS as much as Nintendo (i.e. Very little).
Werewolf Jones
Gold Member
The Good: OH MY GOD, NEW METROID
The Bad: It's another FPS-styled game
The Ugly: Developed by MercurySteam
Well, I sure am glad it didn't happen.
The Bad: It's another FPS-styled game
The Ugly: Developed by MercurySteam
Well, I sure am glad it didn't happen.
Cosmonaut X
Member
The wording of the piece makes it sound like it was an unsolicited pitch, not something Nintendo is requesting.
Really? You think Sakamoto did that badly with her in the games aside from Other M he worked on? I don't recall people complaining about her characterization prior but I guess if it was a chonic issue from when he got creative control with Super Metroid on I guess I can understand the anger toward him.
All this time I though people were upset over one game rather than all his work on the series.
I'm sure you're right that it cost more than CotM to develop, but there's a generation's gap there and both games launched in very different circumstances. A 1:1 comparison isn't fair and GBA games were cheaper to buy and due to cart prices presumably costlier to ship. Konami referred to LoS' sales as remarkable and greenlit two sequels so it's fair to say it was near or met expectations. LoS also launched on PC much later and MercurySteam commented that it did very well on PC as well.
DaSorcerer7
Member
It was just Other M. Which is why his comparison makes no sense.
Wii U is basically the console of "What could have been". Exclusive Rayman, SimCity, F-Zero, Metroid, Metro Last Light port and probably more stuff that we don't know about yet. Still love all the first party games Nintendo has released for it and the indie support is also helping out.
Why do people insist Other M ruined the Metroid franchise?
Sidescrolling Metroid was doomed anyway because metroidvania is deader than 2D platformers. The structure itself is not acceptable anymore, even Iga was experimenting with his last two Castlevanias with ideas that streamline the level design. There was still a castle type level for tradition but other than that the progression was linear, sort of level based with backtracking elements instead of this one big interconnected world. In other words casuals would get lost and loose interest.
That leaves us with 3D home console Metroid. It's simply too expensive to make it for a niche audience. Hence Other M, this game was supposed to be a typical AAA high paced action title to reach non Metroid fans, they just slapped the universe onto it. It failed to meet the sales expectations and that was the end of it.
Sidescrolling Metroid was doomed anyway because metroidvania is deader than 2D platformers. The structure itself is not acceptable anymore, even Iga was experimenting with his last two Castlevanias with ideas that streamline the level design. There was still a castle type level for tradition but other than that the progression was linear, sort of level based with backtracking elements instead of this one big interconnected world. In other words casuals would get lost and loose interest.
That leaves us with 3D home console Metroid. It's simply too expensive to make it for a niche audience. Hence Other M, this game was supposed to be a typical AAA high paced action title to reach non Metroid fans, they just slapped the universe onto it. It failed to meet the sales expectations and that was the end of it.
Metroidvania is dead? Since when? So many kickstarter and indie games adopt that style and many are successful or was Guacamelee a failure aswell? If Metroidvania is dead then why is Iga's Kickstarter the 2nd most successful one? And Other M was just a bad game.
RPGCrazied
Member
I didn't think Lords of Shadow 2 was that bad, except that end boss & ending. the first game was all sorts of awesome though! I'd much rather have a game from them, then what Next Level is doing with Metroid, Federation Force.
Oh I see. I just watched the video and Tamaki speculates it could be reworked into a new IP now.
Anyway, as this is reported by Tamaki, it must be a lie, right?
Ein Bear
Member
I wonder how often Nintendo get studios pitching them games using their IPs? Be interesting to know if MercuryStream are an outlier here, or if this sort of thing happens all the time.
I'm imagining a dusty room in Nintendo HQ, filled with piles of rejected concept art for c-list studios' various takes on classic Nintendo franchises.
I'm imagining a dusty room in Nintendo HQ, filled with piles of rejected concept art for c-list studios' various takes on classic Nintendo franchises.
sixteen-bit
Member
Did LoS rip that twist off Aria? Lol?
After playing Mirror of Fate I would prefer it if MercurySteam keep far away from all Nintendo IP, urgh that game was just uninspired.
They paid for Lego City Uncover to be developed, hence why it's still a Wii U exclusive. There's also Retro Studio work on Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze.
They paid for Lego City Uncover to be developed, hence why it's still a Wii U exclusive. There's also Retro Studio work on Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze.
I see it this way too but AAA publishers do not. They are not interested in merely profit, they want to maximize it by chasing the mass market. Metroidvania has its niche but is no longer a relevant game style for companies like Nintendo.
Other M was Nintendo's attempt at making a PS3/360 style core game that is cutscene heavy, linear and has fast paced, flashy combat. It was not meant to be a Metroid game just like how Lords of Shadow was not really a Castlevania game, it's just the name they kept but other than that they are chasing other demographics than the series' respective fanbase.
JasonUresti
Member
Retro Studio is Nintendo. They didnt partner with them, DKCTF is a Nintendo game.
vagabondarts
Member
Yo we dodged a bullet here
Krusenstern
Banned
I'm 100% sure now that I've played completely different games from all of you here. It's ridiculous how LoS is deeply hated here.
I could spice my chips with the salt in this thread.
I could spice my chips with the salt in this thread.