Twilight Gap
Member
Well I guess we know it wasn't replaced because it sucked.
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Ex-Bungie composer Marty ODonnell wins legal fight (document in the OP)
- Thread starter Steverulez
- Start date
Well I guess we know it wasn't replaced because it sucked.
Not to mention if you read the actual article, Bungie as a whole was against the trailer at first till activision said "Take it", prompting Bungie management to comply minus Marty who wanted Bungie to keep some independence.
I thinks a need for posters like you to shit on everything destiny even if it's justified or not.
HocusPocus
Member
Congrats to Marty! Screw you Bungie for what you are now.
GlamFM
Banned
I work in the "creative industry". As a composer actually. Not games, but commercials and Film.
You mean human and aa video game developer
Geezus hell people... They are and always will be humans
HiredN00bs
Member
It was having a negative effect keeping him on the project as well. Having him remain on the board after firing him given the fact he was divisive while employed doesn't make any kind of sense. That's why I said even if they knew he would eventually win his backpay, profit sharing and stock, this was still a delay tactic that excised him from any involvement on the project for some time.
Microsoft basically was hands-off in regards to Bungie's day-to-day. The problem with Microsoft was: They wanted them to be the "Halo" studio/343i since Halo blew up. Microsoft gave them the ability to do other IP's (though denied them) and allowed them to run the company as they saw fit. Marty and others didn't seem to have a problem under that corporate leadership. It's only when Activison came in (and started to oversee things in the run up to launch) that Bungie's "corporate culture" changed.
I'm sure Jamie is right and there was some dirty dealings going on during Microsoft's tenure of them, but it's hard to say when (outwardly) Microsoft allowed them to stay away from other internal developers (and it's why Microsoft bought some land across from the main Microsoft campus IIRC) and allowed them to "knock down walls" (literally) so their team would work together, something Microsoft at the time didn't do.
Well Diablo 3 was very rough for longest time and I doubt anyone who experienced that denies it. Vanilla inferno, those were some good days
RoS really injected new blood into D3's veins pulling a lot old and new people in, I bet.I have played a lots of Destiny and plan on playing TTK too much. Game was very rough at release with some high points, and it took them 2 DLC's to get quality of life and such into state that many expected to be there day 1. I think recognizing that is acceptable and not really bashing on game.
You don't get it. You say you didn't understand Marty's elevated role. That's because he wasn't just a composer. He was a full time company leader and representative. He influenced decision making in all non-technical aspects of development, such as dialogue, general story stuff, big picture design goals, and more. Audio director was just his formal title.
Just because you write music doesn't mean you understand the organizational structure or operations or personalities of bungie and its current and former leaders.
wanderjahr
Banned
To play devil's advocate, he did play the game. In court. And won.
To the people pointing out Marty's work ethic post-trailer: keep in mind the game was probably pretty close to being completely done before Activision "tweaked" it a month before it's initial release date.
Hence why the main story guy left.
I would have been pretty pissed too if I had conducted an eight-movement masterpiece with Paul McCartney intended to be a ten-year song in everyone's ears and everyone had just messed with the reveal and now asks you to just "you know, do it all again!"
Especially if they want him to work In a way he isn't comfortable with. And ESPECIALLY if he's one of the seven people who founded the company. You know how often bungie made seven references? Always. Shit was clearly important to them at some point, and I don't blame him for getting upset over the loss of artistic integrity.
Glad he got his money, especially since the main reason he didn't sounds like it was because he'd be a bother in board meetings.
Hence why the main story guy left.
I would have been pretty pissed too if I had conducted an eight-movement masterpiece with Paul McCartney intended to be a ten-year song in everyone's ears and everyone had just messed with the reveal and now asks you to just "you know, do it all again!"
Especially if they want him to work In a way he isn't comfortable with. And ESPECIALLY if he's one of the seven people who founded the company. You know how often bungie made seven references? Always. Shit was clearly important to them at some point, and I don't blame him for getting upset over the loss of artistic integrity.
Glad he got his money, especially since the main reason he didn't sounds like it was because he'd be a bother in board meetings.
GlamFM
Banned
I feel like you're jumping in at some point and tying random posts from me together that do not belong together.
I was talking about the creative industry in general.
Diablohead
Member
I did wonder how bungie were going to get new music at the tier of destiny's OST for their sequels, so... they already have all the music they need from martey before he was fired?
*edit* ok so they still need some more for gameplay but they have a poole of music in reserve still.
*edit* ok so they still need some more for gameplay but they have a poole of music in reserve still.
Just a composer, eh? Smh
Perhaps he felt the stewardship of his companies art and reputation transcended his job title... He was afterall - a co-founder...
Seth Enosh
Member
It doesn't sound like they were asking him to redo Music of the Spheres - according to the document only 20% of his time was devoted to music composition and not all of that was the Music of the Spheres, some of it was the game-specific music rather than the overarching theme for the series.
There was still plenty of work to do according to the document, Destiny clearly had a very troubled development. I doubt it was really in a good state to release in August 2013 either. I preordered it before it came out and there was only 1 delay that I recall. The beta was announced in October 2013; it was originally supposed to be early 2014 and was pushed to mid 2014. Any delays before that were early enough in the process that Activision hadn't started setting up pre-orders and stuff yet, if the game was actually on track to release in Sept 2013 then preorders and betas would have happened months before that. By E3 2013 they would have known the game wasn't coming out in September or preorders would have been up shortly afterward.
GlamFM
Banned
Ok, gotta go now.
Since I feel like I'm the force or the annoyance that keeps this thread going I run down what I think one more time.
Activision wanted different music for the first trailer of the game they payed for and had every right to do so.
Marty became a problem, stood between the team and getting the game done and was fired - rightfully so.
Bungee tried to take his stock - dick move.
He got it back - rightfully so.
Game came out and was amazing.
Since I feel like I'm the force or the annoyance that keeps this thread going I run down what I think one more time.
Activision wanted different music for the first trailer of the game they payed for and had every right to do so.
Marty became a problem, stood between the team and getting the game done and was fired - rightfully so.
Bungee tried to take his stock - dick move.
He got it back - rightfully so.
Game came out and was amazing.
RadicalVelocity
Member
The original company was founded by Alex Seropian and Jason Jones several decades back, the only two employees that I know of.
Marty was one of 7 founders of the new Bungie company created when they left Microsoft around Halo 3's release.
This news is of course fantastic for Marty, and I am very happy to see him get his dues. His behavior was far from exemplary, though.
Activision being run by shitheads proving they have all the power not explicitly limited by contracts is no surprise. One of the most disgusting companies in videogame development.
Bungie looks really terrible here. What a disappointment.
Will look at the court documents later.
Marty was one of 7 founders of the new Bungie company created when they left Microsoft around Halo 3's release.
This news is of course fantastic for Marty, and I am very happy to see him get his dues. His behavior was far from exemplary, though.
Activision being run by shitheads proving they have all the power not explicitly limited by contracts is no surprise. One of the most disgusting companies in videogame development.
Bungie looks really terrible here. What a disappointment.
Will look at the court documents later.
My 400+ hours and counting in Destiny laugh at you. I love the game.
Those are based on claims from Bungie's defense. Which is extremely weird because well, we have proof that his work was completed because we have the soundtrack and the music for the game that he composed. Part of the reasoning he couldn't continue with his part in placing the music in the game was because the game wasn't in a playable state.
Which is kind of important if you want to set up audio cues based on what the player is looking at, where they are on the map, which story beat they're going through....that was the complaint with the audio team about him not being "engaged" enough in his work.
You can't set that up reliably unless you can play the game in a relatively stable build, and going by the court documents the entire story was redone a few months before he was fired.
So there goes all that previous sound design that was done to set the atmosphere and mood for the story that doesn't exist anymore.
They only mention his soundtrack one time a year before he was fired and he was angry because Activision didnt give a shit about anything he did, and at the last minute stepped in and ripped out his music for a really big trailer for E3. As an audio director, and shareholder that's fuckin annoying and all the other Bungie heads agreed enough to send a letter to Activision, that Activision saw and instead of acknowledging they then decided to literally ignore their request for "reasons".
You can't determine a motive as to why he decided to slowly be less active in his work at the company, but it seems at that same time since he was on a sabbatical they started to conspire about how to get rid of him. Before the other people in the audio department felt like he wasn't working as hard as he should. Which is a weird coincidence to me. No problems from his supervisor and the people under him until Bungie decides that they have to find reasons to fire him, which then gives way to his bad performance review just being a "fuck you" based on his attitude. While also giving them the legal leeway to deny him even more benefits after they fire him. Weird HUH?!
The point is Activision and Bungie both tried to pull some strings to boot a shareholding founder out while also trying to steal his wages, benefits, and shares in a company that he helped start. Just because you stopped liking going to work with the composer because he felt like his music wasn't getting the promotion he was initially promised; doesn't mean all the work he had done before doesn't belong to him after you decide to kick him out of the club.
Nothing he did leading up to this was illegal or something malicious. He was consistently (whether or not you agree with his methods) acting in Bungie's and his own artistic interests from what he saw as Activision encroaching into their company's ideals. Reading the actual court documents Bungie has testified to trying to blame a lot of superficial things that they probably caused themselves, like the negative online discussion, did to hurt their company while at the same time providing no proof of their claims that anything he did actually did harm to the company.
Well Marty is his current boss so...
Sabotaging your own product over a trailer of said product is not professional. Game music doesn't need to be featured in every trailer or any trailer. It's not his decision and he should understand that.
...Scatter...
Banned
400- pshhhhhh... newb
To be clear, Marty was not an actual co-founder of Bungie. As I understand it he started working with them on Myth II.
When we say "co-founder" its more business semantics, though not to downplay his importance to the company,
When the composer is as renowned as Marty, the music damn well should be featured in the trailers. That's like saying it would be cool for a Star Wars movie trailer not to feature the music of its own composer.
I knew someone was going to do this. =)
tattooed_dwarf
Member
Please, finish the sentence, I'm curious.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
Based on everything I read, it does sound like there was definitely some wrong on both sides, but Bungie does potentially come off appearing the most wrong in the whole equation, seeing as how they were trying to go back and deny him things that he clearly had a right to. Now I guess it's possible for someone to so badly burn bridges that they may have deemed he was no longer deserving of those things, but that's not an easy thing to dig into and solve without experiencing the whole situation firsthand.
And even if he was no longer deserving in a basic right and wrong scenario, perhaps Bungie went about the entire thing in too heavy handed a manner and simply overreached.
And even if he was no longer deserving in a basic right and wrong scenario, perhaps Bungie went about the entire thing in too heavy handed a manner and simply overreached.
We are talking about something it is unlikely anyone in this thread experienced first hand. Its unfair to reduce complicated decisions to "corporate Activision" versus "artistic genuis Marty" without actually knowing what happened:
I think they're partners
I think keeping Music of the Spheres under lock and key had more to do with it.
Yes he is, one of the seven founding members of BUNGIE, LLC., which was formed in 2007 after they bought themselves from Microsoft.
He is for all legal intents and purposes a co-founder of the independent limited liability game company Bungie as we know it today.
Game music doesn't belong in a game trailer? I don't think you understand how important Marty's music has been to Bungie's games and every piece of media. Ignoring your weird projection that he demanded his music be in every trailer, or your misunderstanding of how important the music is for a videogame trailer that's supposed to invoke the actual tone of the very game in said trailer (they're first E3 trailer mind you, he wasn't suddenly demanding all his music be the only thing in every game trailer they release). The point is it was supposed to be partly his decision, his position in Bungie (and Bungie's status as an independent developer) granted him that, that was the whole point. When Activision stepped in at the last minute and decided to take creative control over something that everyone at Bungie deemed extremely important to the future of their intellectual property; for their own undoubtable "reasons" Activision takes out the content produced by the audio director of the game that the trailer is for...then well what's more professional? Sticking up for the artistic work you spent months creating and writing to be specifically evoke the emotions and tone of the universe that your company has been building for years now? Or rolling over for a big faceless corporation not knowing what they're going to decide to change next? Nothing he did was outside of his position, he might not have been the most tactful in how he did it, but since we don't actually know what Bungie considers threatening when it comes actually providing examples or proof of the behavior.
There's also no proof that he "sabotaged" Destiny either. Everything that was negative about Destiny had zero to do with the parts Marty was a part of. Hell, most of this stuff was completely in the dark until these court documents detailing the entire fuckin story came out.
He is the founding member of 2007-era Bungie,.
Right, but he didnt actually found Bungie proper, is all Im saying. I just wanted to clear up the language in case anyone from this thread thought they had fired a literal co-founder of the company - someone who had been there from the very beginning.
Twilight Gap
Member
Marty had just spent 2 years composing 10 years' worth of audio for Destiny and he wanted to release it.
Activision says "lolnope", probably because they'd rather release that 10 times and make 10x more money off of it.
And then "shorty before E3", they take over production of the trailer, removing Marty's music and using generic stock music so they wont have to pay royalties.
I'm pissed for Marty just reading that, and I'm even more upset because the best tracks from the game exist in full within Music of the Spheres.
If we evaluated how good things are based on how many people buy it, 50 Shades of Grey must be the greatest novel ever written.
Exactly, so he's not exactly an impartial observer in this whole situation.
If they do that Marty's gonna make 10x more money off it too though.
charlequin
Banned
If Marty's your boss but you want to keep a good relationship with your other former co-workers you tweet something like "glad to see this is resolved and Marty got what he deserved for his years of stellar hard work." Whatever the core reason, this is the comment of someone with their own grudge against Bungie's management.
The conclusion of the arbitration document is pretty much that Marty did some things in breach of contract (especially distributing Music of the Spheres without authorization) but that the board of directors failed in its obligation to deal with him in good faith, full-stop. Their misbehavior in this scenario is unquestionably much worse.
HiredN00bs
Member
We all are. So was Bungie, according to the article.
To be fair, I thought the music goes well with the trailer. I had just assumed the Bungie composers had composed it, as it sounded like it could be on the variation on the main theme.
I would love to see the trailer with the music Bungie originally wanted for it.
Does he need to have founded "Bungie proper" to be emotionally invested in the reputation of Bungie, LLC, as it pertains to their overall artistic output?
That's what we're getting at when someone says "he was just a composer"... He cared about Destiny deeply, not just how a trailer sounded, but also how Bungie fans would respond to misrepresentative marketing, and Activision's interference with artistic integrity.
They are co-ownwers
My understanding is that he never distributed Music of the Spheres... Activision/Bungie just claimed that his possession of a CD with the music, and the chance that he could distribute it, somehow gave them leverage to behave in this manner... He then gave them the CD, without distributing anything, and they still didn't pay him....
Twilight Gap
Member
It sounds like something Two Steps From Hell would compose. I didn't say it was bad, but it's no where near the level of Marty's work for the game.
Seems like he was trying to sell Destiny ahead of its release. Releasing the soundtrack would have helped paint a picture of what the game was and fueled the hype machine (more than it already was - even following this fiasco).
tattooed_dwarf
Member
So you think he's lying?
Oh of course, I'm not saying he should be denied what is his, legally it is, I'm just saying as a human being, sounds like he is being a brat, I know what it's like to work with someone the team who acts like that, it's very distracting...
Bungie should have just let him go, gave him what he deserved and owed to him but just told him 'listen, you got to go'
Twilight Gap
Member
I need The Union in 320 kb. I'm dying here.
Flying Toaster
Member
The sad part is in this entire situation. I want to believe it would have not been this way if Activision wasn't part of the equation.
No I am not saying Activision is an Evil bastard but their track record shows they are cut throat. The entire situation sucks for all parties involved.
Also Devil brings up a good point. Bratty co-workers are a pain in the ass when it comes to team environments. Marty could have handled himself with more professionalism.
Heavy_D206
Member
Good for Marty
Bungie bent over and let Activision violate the shit out of them just for a paycheck. Marty had a problem with it and spoke his mind. It's pretty clear now why Destiny launched in the shape it did, and it's because of shitty business practices.
Bungie bent over and let Activision violate the shit out of them just for a paycheck. Marty had a problem with it and spoke his mind. It's pretty clear now why Destiny launched in the shape it did, and it's because of shitty business practices.
Someone else at Bungie should have also taken a look at who was no longer at Bungie, and thought about why they weren't there anymore and asked themselves, "What the hell are we doing?"