it's CIG Cloud Imperium Games
I genuinely commend you for not doing with your stories what The Escapist just did, though.
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Escapist runs piece on Star Citizen employee woes. Disputed sources.
- Thread starter Mad Season
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it's CIG Cloud Imperium Games
I genuinely commend you for not doing with your stories what The Escapist just did, though.
DrROBschiz
Member
Its an interesting model
I do worry about burnout before the game launches though
Minecraft and many other early access games were pretty open ended, creation influenced, moddable, and could potentially be endlessly replayable (dayz)
What is your take on Star Citizens model?
You should take a look at some of the gawker pieces then. Or better yet, what about that old rape fiasco piece on kotaku about cards against humanity? Or stardock.
Glass houses and all.
The latest wave of attacks on the project are following the absolutely incredible gameplay demos at Gamescom. No amount of progress will stop the attacks. Even the finished game will be picked apart and criticized, regardless of how it compares to projects of similar budget and talent.
Even if someone was the type of asshole who wanted to do that, I find it hard to believe they'd have the balls to actually say that stuff in 2015. One person with an iphone could ruin them.
Which begs the question, if it was bad enough to affect their health, why DIDN'T these multiple people make recordings? The toxicity sounds so pervasive that you couldn't swing an office chair without hitting it.
Last Hearth
Member
Of course they don't realize this.
People who follow the development and watch as the game becomes more mature and complete are not worried about its current status. However, it will be 2-3 years before everything promised is completed, that much is clear.
Let's say this is all true, at their current burn rate are they going to have money to last another 2-3 years?
If the 261 employee number is accurate, and assuming average cost of an employee is $60k+20k in benefits and payroll taxes. That's about $21 million per year, and I haven't factored the cost of the office and utilities, and marketing (such as E3 and other conventions etc).
If there is only $8 Million left. Which I don't see refuted, how are they going to last 2-3 years?
QuixoticNeutral
Member
Reading comprehension, please. He's not saying he thinks so, he's saying the reporter for The Escapist thinks so (which I think she would happily admit) and that it's hypocritical for her to claim an ethical high ground.
I'm a distant bystander to all things Star Citizen, but it might be worth noting that while Derek Smart doesn't have a very good record when it comes to getting things shipped, he is a pretty credible expert on all the reasons things don't get shipped. And the warning signs that this would be a project devoured by its own scope creep were there ever since the money started pouring in.
Disgruntlement, as Roberts says, is normal and not newsworthy. But a project like this creates unique conditions for amplifying it.
joecanada
Member
this doesn't help in the long run unless you are meeting some specific target, in this case, the game doesn't even appear to have a target. So you could spend forever fixing bugs, but you need a complete game at some point as well. you can have the best process but what's the end goal?
There's so many red flags here it's pretty interesting. How much more expense is racked up for every month the game is in development? 100 million isn't even much money if it's going to be 5-6 years.
Obliterator
Member
I've had bad vibes about this project for a while now. I'm willing to bet the final release will be nowhere near what they've been selling it as
br0ken_shad0w
Member
And we finally find out David Braben orchestrated the entire thing. He's playing the long game.
Shining Sunshine
Banned
It's pretty obvious for those who worked in the industry.
The more features a game has, the worse development gets.
The more features a game has, the worse development gets.
It is essential for the biggest crowd funded project of all time, and has only contributed to Star Citizen becoming that big.
This is more complicated than the question implies.
As more gameplay is released, including the singleplayer campaign "Squadron 42," more people may buy the game, thus funding further development.
If the worst case comes to pass, they can release the game at a milestone and continue working off the sales revenue, albeit at a slower pace.
MrJoobJoob
Member
Saw this on Reddit... bad reporting. Before the article was published the Escapist had email correspondence with Roberts that gave him the chance to respond to some of the things in the article, which was deliberately kept in mostly vague and general language. Then they applied his responses to SPECIFIC quotes about supposed racism, homophobic slurs, etc. Just horrible brown-water-trash journalism.
Newsflash, companies spend forever fixing bugs, its a nature of software. Having large pool of testers in hand with good reporting system is a big win, especially when You start early and not few weeks before launch.
They earn more than $2m per month and before PU is fully out, the Squadron 42 will be out which will generate tons of sales, they also said that they have enough money to finish the project.
Dictator93
Member
There is no conspiracy about gamer gate and derek smart if you follow derek smarts posts across social media and the numerous raids gamergate has done on SC stuff. There was a massive GG bombardment on the SC subreddit just a few days ago.
David Swanson is part of the e-mail CCs. He is the PR guy.
Yeah, the GamerGate angle here is really confusing.
It's not to stop the people making the attacks - it's just to give supporters some recent progress to point to in response.
I love how both you and Roberts referred to GG as being about ethics in journalism.
DrROBschiz
Member
Yeah if anything you would WANT to vett a story this hotly charged
TO make damn sure you didnt fuck something up
Metroidvania
People called Romanes they go the house?
Roberts' long-winded rant on Derek Smart feels less 'I'm trying to explain' and more 'I'm discrediting you via expose'
The rebuttals are important to post, considering the accusations, but hooooly crap, that first part just kept going, and does not make Robert look 'better' than Smart.
Shouldn't need to be said, but the article is also terrible. The rationale for 'needing' to get it posted ASAP (before a reasonable chance for rebuttal, especially after they took the time to 'ask' for it) is one of the biggest pieces of shit I've heard in a while.
The rebuttals are important to post, considering the accusations, but hooooly crap, that first part just kept going, and does not make Robert look 'better' than Smart.
Shouldn't need to be said, but the article is also terrible. The rationale for 'needing' to get it posted ASAP (before a reasonable chance for rebuttal, especially after they took the time to 'ask' for it) is one of the biggest pieces of shit I've heard in a while.
I think they both understand that GG has been so perverted to the point where it's not about ethics in journalism at all anymore, but that ideally that's what it was supposed to be about.
Makes perfect sense if you read it as "Revenue is down this month we need clicks stat!"
But there is already a mountain of progress to point to, including the multiple weekly "shows" and a damn magazine CIG produces for the benefit of their backers.
hobblygobbly
Member
No, he says that about the reporter/writer (who herself is a Gamer Gate supporter). Yeah it's weird how the Gamer Gate involved here but the Escapist is pro GG and the writer herself as well.
Any ways, there is a lot worrying about Star Citizen but that article is shameful, a lot of allegations with zero to back it up. CR's response is also pathetic to quite an extent with Derek Smart. CR does raise some very damning and valid shady shit about escapist and the article (and the writer). Terrible article, massive allegations with only anonymous sources backing it - you can't make such allegations with anonymous sources, it is atrocious reporting.
Also I can't understand what Derek Smart and others have with "proving" that Sandi and Chris are married? What the shit does that have to do with anyone, that's personal wtf.
ScatheZombie
Member
So... it was a game studio.
Yeah, but its mostly due to Chris really holding back for months on commenting on Smart's attacks and probably this article was the last straw for his patience and politically correct respons.
The TOS changes are weird and the game is a year overdue. AND the amount of money being spent on the single player HOLLYWOOD EXTRAVAGANZA is a bit disturbing (would make more sense to me if they made the sandbox game first and then focus on the single player within it). But Derek Smart and anonymous sources are Derek Smart and anonymous sources. Anyways I'm not a backer so I'm content to see where we are another year from now.
WonderCheese
Banned
You work for Gawker, you can't be quite as shocked as you claim.
You can get a loooot of money through tax incentives -just ask Curt Schilling.
ScatheZombie
Member
You called George Kamitani a 14-year-old boy because you didn't like his art style...
Glass houses, man.
Dictator93
Member
If anyone wants to know about Derek Smarts conenction to gamer gate... just check out his twitter responses regarding a certain feminist.
Read here
He also tried to rope in GG to fight his fight against CIG in june or july... I cannot remember
Contact their customer service as per the website instructions.
Read here
He also tried to rope in GG to fight his fight against CIG in june or july... I cannot remember
Contact their customer service as per the website instructions.
diffusionx
Gold Member
That response makes Chris Roberts sound like a crazy person.
You sound like a Gamergater! I'm not going to derail this thread by getting into random stories Kotaku has reported in the past, but I will say that we have never and would never publish anything like this. Look at this sentence again:
"It was also claimed that Gardiner used race as a determining factor in selecting employees, allegedly once saying 'We aren't hiring her. We aren't hiring a black girl.'"
Where is the sourcing here? The first part of the sentence uses passive language -- "It was also claimed" -- which is awful, cowardly writing that presents a horrible accusation about a real person without explaining where it came from or why the author believes it's true. Earlier in the graf the author cites someone named CS1 -- I guess codenames are fun -- which could imply that the accusation came from them, but that's thin sourcing by any definition of the word, and no responsible reporter would ever allege that someone said something this horrible with such flimsy evidence backing them up.
Nailed it, dude
Reads like a FUD hit piece. Roberts shouldn't even be responding, particularly not through the Escapist. If he wanted to respond he should have done it through his own forum/website.
I have no doubt there are some issues at the studio, as with most game studios, but this article seems like junk. The whole Derek Smart+GG involvement makes me even less inclined to believe most of this.
I have no doubt there are some issues at the studio, as with most game studios, but this article seems like junk. The whole Derek Smart+GG involvement makes me even less inclined to believe most of this.
hobblygobbly
Member
He's apologised repeatedly in the past and admitted he was wrong, there's no need to always bring it up especially when it's only brought up to help invalidate his argument/opinion.
Davey Cakes
Member
People need to start demanding the base game then, and NOT just with Star Citizen.
Even crowd-funded games will have issues if everybody starts drooling over the possibilities too soon.
Like, just get a game out. Make it good. If people want extra, they'll up their contribution but that should be saved for after it's assured that the base game will release as a complete product.
It's frustrating seeing developers get in over their heads. Ambition is great but giving your backers a game should come first.
Irobot82
Member
He did respond through his website, then Escapist updated their article.
Last Hearth
Member
And that worked out so well for him.
This is not new, its been happening for a while. Derek Smart has been gaining far too much traction on this and the guy doesn't know when to shut up about it. He even shows up in comment sections of articles written about Star Citizen just to troll.
These attacks have only gotten worse despite how much information there is about the game. The focus on Sandy Gardiner is very disturbing as well, though not surprising with GG involved.
I don't think many in this thread understand how completely unhinged Derek Smart is or how long this has been building.
Obliterator
Member
Listen Kotaku has run some amazingly shit opinion pieces in the past but when they run a news story they try and vet things and get the story right.
That and Jason is a good guy and a real gaming journalist. He tries to present the facts when doing a hard news piece. I would not compare his writing to something like this at all.
That and Jason is a good guy and a real gaming journalist. He tries to present the facts when doing a hard news piece. I would not compare his writing to something like this at all.
MrJoobJoob
Member
They "updated" their article by misapplying his responses to specific quotes within the article.
backers be like
I'm a backer and I'm unphased by this.
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