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[ashecitism]

http://www.engadget.com/2015/10/30/htc-q3-2015/

A few months ago, we suggested that HTC could be the first really big Android manufacturer to go to the wall. In the wake of the firm's most recent update on its financial health, we're not really able to say anything different. The firm has posted a $138.6 million loss for the last three months, which is better than the $265 million it ate in the previous quarter, but still a loss. That may not, however, be the most troubling issue for the firm since, during its investors call, it announced that it would no longer publish guidance on its future performance.

In stock market business-speak, guidance is a pencilled-in target of how much money a company expects to make (or lose) in the next quarter. It's normally pretty easy to work out, since you know how much of the product you have, how much you've got the capacity to make and what the demand is likely to be. Unfortunately, investors don't like it when you fail to meet this target and respond by punishing the firm by not hanging around. That was a problem back in August, when HTC's declining share price fell beneath its valuation -- effectively saying that the business was worthless.

blog post by the above person

http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2015/10/30/after-loss-htc-no-longer-to-give-earnings-guidance/

Fresh off falling again into a quarterly loss, the Taiwanese smartphone maker announced it would no longer give guidance for future quarters.

“Given the dynamic nature of this business, we have decided not to provide that sort of detailed financial forecast,” said HTC’s Chief Financial Officer and sales head Chialin Chang, on an earnings call Friday.

It means HTC has turned from one of Taiwan’s most transparent public companies into one of the island’s most opaque.

“It’s now worse than Hon Hai,” said Daiwa analyst Kylie Huang, comparing it to the Taiwanese contract manufacturer also known as Foxconn that shuns forecasts to avoid leaking secrets of Apple’s iPhone planning.

Mr. Chang said on the call that the move was aimed at avoiding “side effects.” He reminded listeners of the detailed earnings warning that HTC gave ahead of its third quarter loss as an example of the company’s transparency.

Ms. Huang said HTC actually has no obligation to give guidance, and it previously volunteered a more specific forecast than many companies. “It was not so usual for a company in Taiwan to give such specific guidance as HTC did. Most companies will just give you a direction, such as saying the margin is trending up or down.”

 

[Humidex]

Uh oh.

 

[Enter the Dragon Punch]

well you can't report earnings if you don't make any

 

[FZZ]

I will say HTC eSports makes some damn good content.

As for their phones, well my M7 has become my go to mp3 device and it functions well at that. But I don't think I'll be buying another HTC phone anytime soon based on their recent output.

 

[family_guy]

Poor HTC. They had some great phones back when Android was finding its place in the phone world. Hero, Evo, One X. Much better than Samsung's offerings back then. Shame to see what happened to them.

 

[ArtHands]

Not surprising at what's happening. They've been falling along with almost all android manufacturers like Sony, Samsung, LG, Lenovo etc in recent years.

 

[btrboyev]

Not surprising at what's happening. They've been falling along with almost all android manufacturers like Sony, Samsung, LG, Lenovo etc in recent years.

I blame Google and carriers and manufacturers for this. Google should have absolutely mandated that Android be vanilla on every handset made. So many shitty phones due to poor skins and shit branding on devices.

 

[soundahfekz]

yeah its a wrap dizzle for htc. Shame.

 

[Lumination]

I blame Google and carriers and manufacturers for this. Google should have absolutely mandated that Android be vanilla on every handset made. So many shitty phones due to poor skins and shit branding on devices.

Wasn't the whole point of Android that it was open to modification by third parties? Honest question.

 

[Kysen]

Android is a race to the bottom.

 

[Frustrated_me]

Nokia knew, made 8 billion. Got out a sweet and went full enterprise.

 

[Reallink]

Vive canceled.

 

[Slayer-33]

well you can't report earnings if you don't make any

7.1/10 because of the lack of capitalized sentence.

Would be more impactful if it was.

 

[Turin Turambar]

I blame Google and carriers and manufacturers for this. Google should have absolutely mandated that Android be vanilla on every handset made. So many shitty phones due to poor skins and shit branding on devices.

Lol, HTC and other always could have done Android vanilla, if they wanted. The just chose not to. If they fail because their decision, how is Google's fault?

 

[Enter the Dragon Punch]

7.1/10 because of the lack of capitalized sentence.

Would be more impactful if it was.

gee i must really be htc if i don't have capital

 

[ArtHands]

Wasn't the whole point of Android that it was open to modification by third parties? Honest question.

I am wondering the same thing too.

 

[Onion_Relish]

gee i must really be htc if i don't have capital

DAMN. That is tag worthy, kudos.

 

[IchigoSharingan]

Android is a race to the bottom.

No, but the Android hate certainly is.

 

[squeakywheel]

The only people I see gloating about the death of these companies are those that moved onto Apple's overpriced (IMO) ecosystem.
Actually I do hope that Apple gets over 50% of smartphone sales in the US. That way the DOJ can go after them too for their draconian practices.

 

[Damaniel]

Android is a race to the bottom.

Nah. It's just like anything else - there's a high end and a low end. The low end is often garbage, but there's plenty of companies out there making high quality Android products - Samsung, Motorola, even Huawei and LG, if the latest Nexus phones are anything to go by.

 

[345triangle]

I blame Google and carriers and manufacturers for this. Google should have absolutely mandated that Android be vanilla on every handset made. So many shitty phones due to poor skins and shit branding on devices.

android would never have taken off then. the whole reason it gained traction was because carriers could do what they wanted to it, so were happy to push those devices.

your proposed scenario would've led to another windows phone.

Nah. It's just like anything else - there's a high end and a low end. The low end is often garbage, but there's plenty of companies out there making high quality Android products - Samsung, Motorola, even Huawei and LG, if the latest Nexus phones are anything to go by.

yeah, but only samsung is capable of making any real money on the devices themselves.

 

[Palladium]

The only people I see gloating about the death of these companies are those that moved onto Apple's overpriced (IMO) ecosystem.
Actually I do hope that Apple gets over 50% of smartphone sales in the US. That way the DOJ can go after them too for their draconian practices.

The only people I see who says Apple is a monopoly don't know the exact definition of a monopoly. Apple haters can't wrap around their heads that Apple is nowhere even near one like Wintel did in 90s/00s with PCs yet they are taking almost all the profits with pitiful marketshare.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Android is a race to the bottom.

Android is Windows for phones.

There are good Windows PCs and bad ones. Cheap ones and fancy ones. Same with Android phones.

Spoiler

Windows Phone is OS/2 for phones.

 

[Japanmanx3]

Android is Windows for phones.

There are good Windows PCs and bad ones. Cheap ones and fancy ones. Same with Android phones.

Spoiler

Windows Phone is OS/2 for phones.

Spoiler made me cry.

Spoiler

Posting from my 1520

 

[freenudemacusers]

gee i must really be htc if i don't have capital

10/10 recovery

 

[ArtHands]

android would never have taken off then. the whole reason it gained traction was because carriers could do what they wanted to it, so were happy to push those devices.

your proposed scenario would've led to another windows phone.



yeah, but only samsung is capable of making any real money on the devices themselves.

Nah. It's just like anything else - there's a high end and a low end. The low end is often garbage, but there's plenty of companies out there making high quality Android products - Samsung, Motorola, even Huawei and LG, if the latest Nexus phones are anything to go by.

In terms of sales they are dropping though except maybe huawei.

 

[diffusionx]

No, but the Android hate certainly is.

Android absolutely is a race to the bottom. It's the PC market all over again. A gazillion faceless companies all competing on margins. The only companies making any money are Samsung and Apple. Samsung was doing ok for a while because they spent so much on advertising to get their name out there but even now they're getting squeezed on both ends.

 

[1st Course]

No, but the Android hate certainly is.

When it come to profit/margins it def is. Most Android vendors are losing money (HTC, LG, Sony, Motorola/Lenovo, others). Only Samsung make anything significant I believe.

 

[Warxard]

gee i must really be htc if i don't have capital

That wake up DP

 

[FStubbs]

The only people I see gloating about the death of these companies are those that moved onto Apple's overpriced (IMO) ecosystem.
Actually I do hope that Apple gets over 50% of smartphone sales in the US. That way the DOJ can go after them too for their draconian practices.

Apple is well liked so that's doubtful. People like their iPhones.

Though what happens in a few years when Apple is the only smartphone maker left?

 

[Fatalah]

Apple is well liked so that's doubtful. People like their iPhones.

Though what happens in a few years when Apple is the only smartphone maker left?

... maybe there's a new Apple emoticon to respond to this jokester.

 

[Palladium]

Though what happens in a few years when Apple is the only smartphone maker left?

As much as Apple wants the entire pie of the profits to themselves, they can't sell to the low end without destroying their sky high margins of the premium devices at the same time. And we know the end result of Android OEMs cutting prices to compete for marketshare.

 

[Amory]

I don't understand how they've continued to operate, tbh.

 

[SmartBase]

gee i must really be htc if i don't have capital

Bravo.gif

 

[VoxPop]

Just die already. Should have been done after the disastrous M8.

 

[cebri.one]

I think Valve may regret chossing HTC to build the Vive.

 

[……forgetit]

Really wondering how long the company will last, I give it till the end of next year honestly.

 

[Nikodemos]

It's a shame, since HTC were among the first to champion Android, but some of their recent design decisions were extremely bad. And I'm saying this as somebody who likes the M8 (bad camera notwithstanding) and wants to own one (not an M9, though, too many caveats while much more expensive).

I wonder if HTC sliding will allow Sony to edge forwards past LG in the small space below Samsung.

 

[Enter the Dragon Punch]

Just die already. Should have been done after the disastrous M8.

see, they had a great concept with the m8 and it did well financially. it was as if they thought about and perfected apple's model then modelS formula. but they just kept releasing the m7 over and over again

I think Valve may regret chossing HTC to build the Vive.

been saying that for a while... can't see htc building a sturdy piece of hardware without issues here either

 

[darkwing]

but Vive means life

 

[Bartholomuse]

I think Valve may regret chossing HTC to build the Vive.

Gabe will build the headsets in his garage if he has to. He's not going to let his baby have some sort of a half-lived life, he wants it to live forever.

 

[Ahasverus]

In terms of sales they are dropping though except maybe huawei.

Maybe Android works just fine and people are not buying a new phone every year for societal pressure. A saturated market, yes, but for all the right reasons.

 

[ArtHands]

When it come to profit/margins it def is. Most Android vendors are losing money (HTC, LG, Sony, Motorola/Lenovo, others). Only Samsung make anything significant I believe.

Samsung has been suffering from the same thing in the recent years, but they are taking longer to fall as they were significantly bigger in the first place. They have been price cutting their phones to prop up the sales volume, but at the same time it is affecting their profit.

Ironically their declining phone sales is offset by the improving component division, which supply the parts for Apple iphone.

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015...y-from-chips-and-screens-but-not-from-phones/

Maybe Android works just fine and people are not buying a new phone every year for societal pressure. A saturated market, yes, but for all the right reasons.

Well maybe thats the case, i have no idea.

 

[numble]

Maybe Android works just fine and people are not buying a new phone every year for societal pressure. A saturated market, yes, but for all the right reasons.

Is IDC saying the market is stagnant or only Apple is growing? I believe it is still a growing market, all the old players are just getting eaten up by cheap Chinese manufacturers like Huawei. A saturated market means new players don't gain traction, but that's actually the opposite of the case, especially with newcomers like Xiaomi.

 

[sometimes i game]

Oh HTC, how the mighty have fallen. They are never going to figure this out. They're over soon.

 

[nilbog21]

Didn't they make windows phones? Rip...but what were you thinking??

Vive will make HTC though

 

[freenudemacusers]

Is IDC saying the market is stagnant or only Apple is growing? I believe it is still a growing market, all the old players are just getting eaten up by cheap Chinese manufacturers like Huawei. A saturated market means new players don't gain traction, but that's actually the opposite of the case, especially with newcomers like Xiaomi.

additionally

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/8e68...profit-sinks-smartphone-business-suffers-loss

http://www.androidauthority.com/sony-q2-2015-results-652731/

http://www.hpcwire.com/off-the-wire/lenovo-reports-first-quarter-2015-financial-results/

so who is actually going to be make money on high end android 5 years? I can't imagine any of these companies see any value in this as a loss leader, since there is nothing tying any consumer into an ecosystem/brand like with ios/apple.

 

[Your Entertainer]

Just die already. Should have been done after the disastrous M8.

The M8 was an excellent phone, the M9 was the real turning point

 

[TapeDispenser1000]

I currently have an htc phone

 

[BlastProcessing]

Wasn't the whole point of Android that it was open to modification by third parties? Honest question.

The core OS is open source and you can do whatever you want with it, but none of the Google services and apps are. So if you want your phone to have Gmail and Maps and the App store, you have to kiss the ring.

Google is pretty great at looking like the Open Source cool guy, while still exerting 90's-Microsoft-style pressure on its partners.