I'd probably buy the console and give the handheld a miss. You may think that's Nintendo loses out in system sales but they will make money in software that would be ported to both systems. I have not bought a 3DS or a Wii U as I feel there isn't enough games on each system for me to justify a purchase. Instead I play the gamed I like on my brothers systems. However if the Wii U could play the entire 3DS library I probably would have bought one.
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What we know so far about the Nintendo NX with sources
- Thread starter Hero of Legend
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I'd probably buy the console and give the handheld a miss. You may think that's Nintendo loses out in system sales but they will make money in software that would be ported to both systems. I have not bought a 3DS or a Wii U as I feel there isn't enough games on each system for me to justify a purchase. Instead I play the gamed I like on my brothers systems. However if the Wii U could play the entire 3DS library I probably would have bought one.
If you bought the physical cartridge, my guess would be that you'd get the portable assets only. To play at home you'd have to download extra data or play the portable version if you don't have Internet. Keeps costs for cartridges down.
I did read it. I didn't reread it, which is why clock speed difference came to my mind when I responded. I edited that remark away because I had read the table and remembered that the results were flops/clock.
I still adhere to my point. Obviously, the width of the SIMD unit is not the only factor, so I would not expect the architecture with the widest unit to be on top necessarily. For a detailed discussion we would need to see the code anyway. To the best of my knowledge, I am not expecting matrix multiplication to be a good benchmark at all for the other aspects I mentioned. But I am not an expert. If you can point me to a source that discusses the merits of that specific benchmark that I'd be happy to read it and stand corrected.
Hero of Legend
Member
My god.
This is GENIUS!
I never thought of this, this is brilliant! Don't games that use installs do this anyway and just require the disc inserted to function? Xenoblade Chronicles X all but requires downloadable asset packs for improved performance anyway if you buy the disc (they come with the digital version by default).
Edit: This is a bit difficult for those with poor internet though. But still!
James Scott
Banned
I guess that's feasible, could be a default thing where the game will run regardless of the platform but if the dev wants to put some extra effort they can release the HD pack. Might annoy some consumers, though they could do the PS4 thing where it downloads in the background while you play the base version
Feral Gingy
Banned
I read all these nx threads and my hype and fear for nintendo is real. I'm almost certain that nx will be either a huge success or miserable failure. I know people say that a failure still wouldn't be the end of nintendo consoles but I just can't see it not being exactly that... My wallet is ready no matter what though. What a time to be a nintendo fan.
Iwata's quotes from the Shareholders meeting on June 26th, 2015 on NX also should be included.
Another quote from the same Q&A
Another quote from the same Q&A
Iwata said:
Same here. I will get it on day one, even if it turns out to be an underpowered Luigi-shaped box with a pink smart jacket and an Amiibo butt-plug as controllers.
The only thing I hope is that the concept of the console is focused and makes sense. One of my main issues with the Wii U was that its concept wasn't really sound. For instance, it wanted to appeal to "hardcore" gamers, yet was not technically equipped to allow easy down-ports from the PS4/XBO generation that must have already been on the radar of Nintendo's strategists. I don't really mind whether NX will be less, equally, or more powerful than PS4/XBO, but if it Nintendo choses to make it not powerful enough to run easy ports then its concept and pricing should address the fact that it would be largely ignored by third parties.
That third pillar.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Ok. For a moment you had me wondering there.
Well, the opposite is what you more or less said in one of your previous posts. Nevermind.
That particular benchmark is my own, so perhaps I can explain to you all you might need to know about it. I'm far from the thought it's an all-encompassing, all-telling benchmark - on the contrary, it is clearly focused on SIMD (and not all kinds of SIMD either), but it does show one particular aspect of SIMD code:
As important as SIMD ISAs might be, the underlying uarch can make or break the efficiency of a SIMD ISA. Particularly when an ISA has design deficiencies from the start. Conversely, a smart SIMD ISA combined with a potent uarch can make a CPU top-efficient, even when the ALU count is not the largest.
As about why matrix multiplication - SGEMM and DGEMM tests are considered essential metrics for HPC to this day and age, and are usually the numbers quoted in supecomputing benchmarks. Now, this benchmark is not about large sparse matrices (common in scientific computations) but about small, dense matrices (common in game development).
Dr. Buni
Member
No offense but that's an awful idea. 2~3 years for new releases? God no. Can we go back to console/handhelds lasting at least 5 years, please? Two NX systems sharing a library of games, maybe not ALL games, is an idea I can get behind, but if it has to be the way you said, I'd rather have two completely different systems that will not be replaced in 2 years.
But that's precisely why the idea of the shared library is amazing: You wouldn't need to double dip. If you prefer consoles, buy the console, if you prefer handhelds, buy it instead.
Father_Brain
Banned
Well, that depends on what your definitions of "succeeds," "okay," and "fine" are, I suspect. Best case scenario I envision is around 55M units across both console and handheld, which is still a drop of over 20% from this gen (~70M).
I don't see NX having much luck with AAA titles, but it should be able to get some percentage of the sorts of mid-tier/niche Japanese titles currently being announced mainly for PS4 and Vita. Exactly what percentage, I'm wary of predicting.
Yeah, Nintendo won't get any AAA in the Western sense, at least not at the start. Point was that Nintendo does see (however little) third party support in Japan, but that's currently for handheld which is not what they need for more success in the West. An unified platform will make it easier for everyone involved to leverage the already existing support in Japan internationally.
Not sure about that considering that you'd screw over anyone without a stable internet connection.
Milly Osworth
Member
Those unfortunate people can play on the handheld.
We got a product for those people. It's called NX handheld. .
bytemovies
Member
Am I the only one who interprets the "shared architecture" keystone of NX as a way to recreate the Wii's massive software library? Considering it is stated that the Wii wasn't much of a transition software development-wise from the GC, and the GC was one of the last Nintendo consoles to have actual 3rd party support (as opposed to the Wii's shovelware), could Nintendo be trying to replicate those conditions for their next platform? Games that succeed well on their strong handheld market could be have assets reused due to the shared architecture for expansion of that IP into a larger game (this also fits with their stated intentions of creating new IPs rather than relying so heavily on existing ones). This would also lower the barrier for 3rd parties, building upon the 3DS's success at having strong 3rd party franchises. This would make sense also in the way that Nintendo wants to emulate the iOS/Android software marketplaces.
I see a lot of discussion here where people interpret "industry leading chips" to mean parity with XB1 and PS4. I don't see Nintendo taking that path here. Nintendo will do what they did with the Wii/WiiU era and use their longtime franchises to maintain a stronghold while blue ocean expanding into untapped markets (here they think there is more potential in the mobile market). But I read "industry leading chips" the way Apple says its A9X is the cutting edge, not in the same way that the PS4 has 8GB GDDR5. I doubt Nintendo will try to head to head the already solidly entrenched PS4 and closely following XB1, that would be a recipe to end up in 3rd most assuredly.
The most worrying thing I see here is that mobile is most certainly a market that hasn't been thoroughly explored, but what we have seen so far is that is very much bubble based and fads and trends pass quickly. So far, the only people that have sunk any real stakes in it are huge companies with plenty of cash to blow like Facebook and Activision. Nintendo certainly isn't poor, but they would suffer a lot more if they failed in this venture than companies like FB/Acti.
I see a lot of discussion here where people interpret "industry leading chips" to mean parity with XB1 and PS4. I don't see Nintendo taking that path here. Nintendo will do what they did with the Wii/WiiU era and use their longtime franchises to maintain a stronghold while blue ocean expanding into untapped markets (here they think there is more potential in the mobile market). But I read "industry leading chips" the way Apple says its A9X is the cutting edge, not in the same way that the PS4 has 8GB GDDR5. I doubt Nintendo will try to head to head the already solidly entrenched PS4 and closely following XB1, that would be a recipe to end up in 3rd most assuredly.
The most worrying thing I see here is that mobile is most certainly a market that hasn't been thoroughly explored, but what we have seen so far is that is very much bubble based and fads and trends pass quickly. So far, the only people that have sunk any real stakes in it are huge companies with plenty of cash to blow like Facebook and Activision. Nintendo certainly isn't poor, but they would suffer a lot more if they failed in this venture than companies like FB/Acti.
Milly Osworth
Member
I know, but for something like a gaming console, I think not having an internet connection good enough to download a game, even if it would take a day or something, it just tough luck.
I think the point of all of this is that the success of the box that plays the game becomes less relevant. So long as one of them is successful, the success of all the other boxes becomes essentially a bonus.
Nintendo knows that it's able to sell software in relatively high numbers even on an unsuccessful device on the market. So instead of being forced to count those sales as separate SKUs, they want to count them as a single SKU and the "Nintendo family of products" doesn't become some way to hide poor sales in an NPD press release, it becomes an singular platform much in the same way "iOS devices" are.
Then don't. As long as Nintendo is selling that single software SKU, there's no lost sale except for the superfluous extra piece of hardware, and the money they make on a hardware sale itself is a pittance compared to what they make in software sales in the first place.
This guy gets it.
Cartridges, depending on how you make them, don't have the kind of astronomical costs people think they do, nor are discs mere pennies to produce like they were before the Blu-Ray era.
Are they more expensive? Yes, absolutely, and I won't dispute that.
But what you propose basically makes purchasing a physical copy "worthless" in the eyes of people who value physical copies in the first place, if all its features are locked behind an internet connection. Think about all the people who groan about "day one patches" or the Xbox One's original vision for game authentication, and you'll see why Nintendo would really want this to be an internet-independent approach.
Insane Metal
Member
I just want a SNES 2, Nintendo ,_,
Please 😛
Please 😛
EA used for NFS Undercover Wii the engine of an elder Cube game. So in a sense, probably. Although I'll assume the main inspiration really did come from mobile platforms. Wii's massive library came from the massive user base first and foremost, I reckon. Also SD development was cheaper.
mikefrails
Banned
That's how they develop games anyway. For example Luigi's Mansion 2 started without the devs even knowing what system it'd end up on. Also 3D Land being expanded into 3D World since the concept was already there ready to be used.
I would be ok with this.
You realize that a lot of people either have data caps or shitty connections, right? You're literally asking Nintendo to end up getting rekt by Sony like what happened with Microsoft (& for good reason).
-Pyromaniac-
Member
Shared library is all I need to buy in. Not the idea that games can be easier to port between consoles. I want it said flat out that there will only be 1 version of every game and it will be playable on all our devices. Period.
Being easier to port doesn't mean they'll do it and I don't trust em to do it for all the games I may end up wanting.
Being easier to port doesn't mean they'll do it and I don't trust em to do it for all the games I may end up wanting.
If we're interpreting Sources 8 & 9 correctly, I wouldn't worry as much about Nintendo not getting their games on both as I would on the off chance that third parties come back. But again, off chance.
Linkstrikesback
Member
At some point soon this has to stop being a valid excuse. Most games from big publishers are already hindered in the console space if you don't have a good enough internet connection to download data for patches so I'd argue we're actually at that point already.
If you don't have a good connection or don't want to download things then they'll just have you make do with the lower res version in this theoretical case. It's not going to include two sets of data on any type of medium that can reasonably be shared between a handheld and home console.
PeakPointMatrix
Member
It will be once America gets their shit together in terms of providing internet for the masses. Until then, anyone that requires an internet connection in a significant way beyond online multiplayer (like what happened with the Xbox One early on) will end up getting destroyed by the masses & the competition.
Linkstrikesback
Member
Then they'll have to make do with the lower res textures. Wii U games already go over 10GB quite often. No affordable hardware format exists that Nintendo will use that can work in both handhelds and consoles AND could realistically come with two sets of all the graphical stuff.
To be fair, the Wii U has 720p (or 1080p in the case of Smash 4 & Wind Waker HD) assets. In theory, the NX Handheld would be 540p (going by the "higher than you'd expect, lower than you'd hope" hint from one of the GAF insiders). I get that the OP decided against including posts from GAF insiders, but I recall the GAFer being reliable.
Wholesale memory cards are dirt cheap, even into the 64GB size range, and that's when buying them through 3rd-party companies. 3DS carts suffered from still being tethered to a ROM solution for the purpose of DS backwards compatibility, but even ROM pricing has gotten cheaper since the glory days of carts. ROM suffers most from capacity limitations, so you stop using ROMs and use write-restricted NAND RAM chips, instead.
Given the volume that a company like Nintendo would need to buy and the kind of contract negotiations they can leverage, I think it's safe to say that there's not much to be concerned about price-wise in getting a write-protected NAND RAM cartridge that matches Blu-Ray capacity while also providing the added benefit of faster load times across all devices in the NX ecosystem.
Again, it will still be more expensive than a disc, but not the astronomical cost that you think it is.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
I think they should be making these consoles under the assumption that they'll never get third party support ever again. That way any that come will be a bonus.
While some games may be compatible with the handeld and the home system, each system also needs exclusive games :
1/ to use each system's specifics at their best
2/ to make each system worthwhile (cross buy/better on TV/on the road is not enough for everyone to get both system)
3/ 1 game cross compatible out of 2 would be enough to fill up the calendar and give them time for more ambitious games.
And if ios is something nintendo's looked at, there are ios games, iphone games and ipad games.
1/ to use each system's specifics at their best
2/ to make each system worthwhile (cross buy/better on TV/on the road is not enough for everyone to get both system)
3/ 1 game cross compatible out of 2 would be enough to fill up the calendar and give them time for more ambitious games.
And if ios is something nintendo's looked at, there are ios games, iphone games and ipad games.
But most iPhone games can be played on the iPad, while a select few iPad games (a sizable number, but not the majority) are exclusive to the iPad. If we're interpreting the sources correctly & Nintendo wants to unify their console & handheld as much as possible, the differences in controls would be minimal.
if the scd thing is what the platform is going to include, i think i'll double back on some speculation that was presented a while ago and incorporate some of kobun heat's challenges to the whole hybrid idea.
i think we can all agree that a handheld is going to be just that. nintendo needs it for a worldwide market where it's popular. however, i can see them pushing a 'console' model which would be the handheld plus the scd, where your games now play on television too. this is where i suspect any wii u backwards compatibilty would kick in, though it would have to be done on the digital side. something like zelda nx could be redone in time (18 months isn't too bad) to make it playable on a single screen like the new handheld form factor.
as far as the multiple kinds of form factors, this is where i think it's a lot closer to 3ds. at launch there might just be nx and nx + scd, and a few months later, nx xl and nx xl + scd. the scd could also be sold separately for those who want to 'upgrade.'
the real problem for nintendo is going to be a cost of goods thing. if they can keep them down by producing a lot of units, they can pass those savings to consumers too. that way nintendo's not making multiple controllers. they might for console gaming, but in essence i think this could be nintendo retreating to the safety of the handheld space and playing to their strengths there while still trying to have a presence in the console market.
i think we can all agree that a handheld is going to be just that. nintendo needs it for a worldwide market where it's popular. however, i can see them pushing a 'console' model which would be the handheld plus the scd, where your games now play on television too. this is where i suspect any wii u backwards compatibilty would kick in, though it would have to be done on the digital side. something like zelda nx could be redone in time (18 months isn't too bad) to make it playable on a single screen like the new handheld form factor.
as far as the multiple kinds of form factors, this is where i think it's a lot closer to 3ds. at launch there might just be nx and nx + scd, and a few months later, nx xl and nx xl + scd. the scd could also be sold separately for those who want to 'upgrade.'
the real problem for nintendo is going to be a cost of goods thing. if they can keep them down by producing a lot of units, they can pass those savings to consumers too. that way nintendo's not making multiple controllers. they might for console gaming, but in essence i think this could be nintendo retreating to the safety of the handheld space and playing to their strengths there while still trying to have a presence in the console market.
If the NX Console uses cartridges like the handheld, Nintendo would have fewer moving parts to worry about. The money they save could be allocated to not only production of said cartridges, but also improving the specs of the NX Console since there's no disc slot taking up space.
See, if anything, I saw the SCD thing as Nintendo finding a way around the hardware cycle, much like the ecosystem approach.
You buy the first NX console. Nintendo then decides to do an updated version in 3 years to keep pace with Sony and Microsoft. But for those who want the benefits that updated hardware would bring, they can buy an SCD instead of an entirely new hardware unit.
And this is even assuming that patent makes it into the picture with the first round of NX hardware in the first place.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
I just want the committment of a shared library. I'm ok with the home console getting the better version in terms of visuals but I want nintendo to either say A) there will only be 1 of every game released and it will work on all our systems or B) Every game will come out on both but the home console version will be scaled up.
This is of course there is a traditional home console component here....which I'm doubtful of myself.
I wonder how is this is going to effect game design if Nintendo decided that NX is going to be handheld and home console. In handheld titles, games size seem smaller/tighter in scale. (i.e. Super Mario 3D Land on the 3DS vs Super Mario 3D World on the Wii U or Mario Kart 7 3DS vs Mario Kart 8 on Wii U) Also, developers can get away from having high production values when it comes to making handheld games. However, I doubt these types efforts would scale well to a home console. (On another note, this depends on the pricing level of the software as well)
i don't know , nintendo being nintendo.... i can't see them going full crossbuy.
The pricing might be a problem too, how much do you sell an handeld game that runs on your TV?or a massive Zelda game that's better on the TV but you'll play on your handeld? will they charge everyone for the full package or do you sell it ala smash dlc? (solo versions or both with discount)
A sizable number of exclusive titles would be enough imo.
"you own NXgo, buy NXhome to play your games on TV, use WiiU bw compatibility and play the latest and gorgeous Zelda game, exclusive to NXhome" --> bought !
Controls are one thing, but some games are meant to play on the go, others in front of the big screen, while some games work for both, its not always the case.
edit : sorry for the double post, clicking too fast :3
So, speaking of access to older titles, what to do re: the 3DS library? Assuming 3DS BC is out (it's possible that the NX Handheld could have two slots like the original DS did and allow for physical BC that way, I guess), do we slowly but surely get a 3DS VC? Is 3DS VC possible in the short term given how weird the hardware is? Does the fact that many of its titles are already available for digital download help facilitate this process? If the NX Handheld only has one screen, would BC still be possible?
Presumably the NX Handheld would not have a Wii motion sensor included so access to original Wii VC stuff would be disabled on it. Would the Home Console have a motion sensor and Wiimote support for Wii VC titles? Would it still support Wiimode for people who want to use the old Wii eShop because it's the only way to get old WiiWare titles? (A fair amount of quality stuff would disappear forever if the old Wii eShop went down permanently)
Nintendo seems to have a real interest in the Virtual Console (even if it sometimes seems like dozens of terrible NES games no one would ever willingly play let alone pay five dollars for), so I'm interested to see how they deal with it. Actually, given SNK/Playmore's renewed interest in...video games, period...it might be at least possible that the next system has the Wii's old NeoGeo VC back in action, which would be a great lineup of titles to have available. Sadly, the Turbografx-16 VC will probably never return.
Presumably the NX Handheld would not have a Wii motion sensor included so access to original Wii VC stuff would be disabled on it. Would the Home Console have a motion sensor and Wiimote support for Wii VC titles? Would it still support Wiimode for people who want to use the old Wii eShop because it's the only way to get old WiiWare titles? (A fair amount of quality stuff would disappear forever if the old Wii eShop went down permanently)
Nintendo seems to have a real interest in the Virtual Console (even if it sometimes seems like dozens of terrible NES games no one would ever willingly play let alone pay five dollars for), so I'm interested to see how they deal with it. Actually, given SNK/Playmore's renewed interest in...video games, period...it might be at least possible that the next system has the Wii's old NeoGeo VC back in action, which would be a great lineup of titles to have available. Sadly, the Turbografx-16 VC will probably never return.
I feel like some games will still be exclusive to one or the other based on the devs choice.
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