It appears they are still fine-tuning the Video player as in HTML5 <video> MSE EME.
Global Internet video Ecosystem
I'm asking how long has PS4 been using PlayReady?
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All Playstation Platforms to use Playready which points to a significant PS3 update
- Thread starter jeff_rigby
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I'm asking how long has PS4 been using PlayReady?
jeff_rigby
Banned
Plan on using, since 2011 for both the PS3 and PS4. Using, I don't think either have used Playready yet. The disclosure mentions Playready and WMDRM. WMDRM is the DTCP-IP protection DRM for streaming DLNA 2 and Vidipath (480i to 1080i)...it hasn't been used yet as I don't think the PS4 Plex app supports DRM.
Playready 3 embedded (from disclosure WMDRM is a part of Playready versions below 3 so mentioning it as a separate component and warning that your console could be blacklisted if you tamper with it) I don't think has been used either (maybe an app like Playstation Vue supports it) as it requires the player, encryption routines, metadata rules and keys as part of a TEE. That comes after " GIVE" and at about the same time HTML5 <video> MSE EME is enabled in the browser as the software stack (Native libraries) are the same and support the C-ENC (common encryption) format that Playready and many other DRMs use. This is why the following in a browser or app is possible; C-ENC via a thin C+ layer allows any DRM that supports the C-ENC format to use the embedded player and routines. Since Playready supports C-ENC, using a Playready porting kit for a Trustzone TEE creates the C-ENC universal embedded part and allows other DRMs to use it and supports the following:
Sony may be using Playready thenselves in an app but I don't think they are allowing anyone else to use it. If they did I'd expect Netflix to drop in size drastically and why do we still have a temporary DLNA and Media player without DRM and why no Miracast?
Norwegian_Imposter
Member
wtf is this thread even saying....
TLZ
Banned
That chips and salsa is the best.
jeff_rigby
Banned
Not dumb but it is a question I can't answer. Playready ND and I think WMDRM requires a connection to a Playready server once every 48 hours and Playready for OTT (Cloud streaming) requires a connection every time. Connection to the PSN will be needed for other services and features; ROVI Guide for DVR for instance and a whole host of other cloud services as well.
PuppetMaster
Member
bodeiseifer
Member
4 and 5 are there
jeff_rigby
Banned
Follow the logic:
All Playstation Platforms to use Playready which points to a significant PS3 update
Why? because Playready embedded is necessary for Vidpath and Sony has sent PDFs to the FCC that have pictures of the PS3 and PS4 as Vidipath clients and DVRs
For the PS3 a PDF on Passage was just released at the latest FCC DSTAC (Downloadable Security Technical Advisory Committee) meeting. Page 12 has a chart showing a PS3 being used as a Vidipath STB.
Second Sony Passage Paper to the FCC DSTAC is about using clear QAM tuners (USB, PC Card and Network tuners) with PCs, PS4, Phones and Tablets as the client using the DSS (Downloadable Security Scheme) (page 10 and 11). A picture of the PS3 labeled PS4 on page 11 is using a Hauppauge USB Tuner. Also on that page is a HD Homerun network tuner feeding a home WiFi router to portables.
HTML5 app written by the Cable company using Sony's passage and network tuners to ?emulate a Vidipath Cable TV DVR?. The Sony job posting makes more sense with this proposal But the HTML5 <video> MSE EME browser routines need to be done as seen in the chart on post # 103 above.
**Edit: For everyone to use HTML5 <video> EME MSE as seen in the chart in post 103, the GIVE project has to create a standard all platforms support in their browsers for HTML5 <video> EME MSE Sony needs this so every platform can support Playstation Vue as do Cable companies for their APP.
What features come with Vidipath? Depends on the version with DLNA2 to DLNA 4. At a minimum with DLNA 2 you get the full DLNA with Push support from handhelds and Playto or Cast to support from Windows 7 through windows 10.
Miracast
Upgraded browser with HTML5 <video> MSE EME
Upgraded app framework
and more
Plan on using, since 2011 for both the PS3 and PS4. Using, I don't think either have used Playready yet. The disclosure mentions Playready and WMDRM. WMDRM is the DTCP-IP protection DRM for streaming DLNA 2 and Vidipath (480i to 1080i)...it hasn't been used yet as I don't think the PS4 Plex app supports DRM.
Playready 3 embedded (from disclosure WMDRM is a part of Playready versions below 3 so mentioning it as a separate component and warning that your console could be blacklisted if you tamper with it) I don't think has been used either (maybe an app like Playstation Vue supports it) as it requires the player, encryption routines, metadata rules and keys as part of a TEE. That comes after " GIVE" and at about the same time HTML5 <video> MSE EME is enabled in the browser as the software stack (Native libraries) are the same and support the C-ENC (common encryption) format that Playready and many other DRMs use. This is why the following in a browser or app is possible; C-ENC via a thin C+ layer allows any DRM that supports the C-ENC format to use the embedded player and routines. Since Playready supports C-ENC, using a Playready porting kit for a Trustzone TEE creates the C-ENC universal embedded part and allows other DRMs to use it and supports the following:
Sony may be using Playready thenselves in an app but I don't think they are allowing anyone else to use it. If they did I'd expect Netflix to drop in size drastically and why do we still have a temporary DLNA and Media player without DRM and why no Miracast?
I think Plex does support DRM because if you try to play a show from the Fox channel in your Chrome web browser on your PC using Plex you get something that says that AES decryption not supported in premium edition but it will play on PS4. Also maybe they are using PlayReady for Vue already.
jeff_rigby
Banned
Do some research on Plex, I don't think it supports DTCP-IP. A post from late 2013 says Plex does not support DTCP-IP and there are no plans to do so.I think Plex does support DRM because if you try to play a show from the Fox channel in your Chrome web browser on your PC using Plex you get something that says that AES decryption not supported in premium edition but it will play on PS4. Also maybe they are using PlayReady for Vue already.
To use WMDRM requires a Playready server that both must connect to and the client must register the owner or domain. With the connection to a server once every 48 hours the Playready embedded core is checked for tampering and the ownership of the domain is checked as well as a blacklisting database.
At this time there is no common DRM for DTCP-IP...that is what is coming with Vidipath. A Windows PC and the PS4 do have Playready DRM in common but suppose Plex is used to stream to a Google Android STB, Phone or Tablet.
DRMtoday.com is a good place to check for DRM.
.
DRM is used by the channels like Fox , ABC , The CW ,CBS ,NBC ,USA & so on, the channels only work with the devices that the channels allow them to work on.
Fox work on PS4 but ABC says "This channel is not supported on Mystery 4"
jeff_rigby
Banned
Antenna TV channels are not encrypted, they have flags that under threat of law are "voluntarily" recognized and honored. A Antenna TV network tuner like HD Homerun converts "clear" RF to "clear" IPTV relying on the network client to honor the flags, it has no DTCP-IP. HD Homerun prime is a Antenna and Cable TV DLNA server with cable card. It can encrypt as DTCP-IP before streaming and will refuse to stream media that has the no copy flag set to platforms that do not support DTCP-IP.
In your example you can have Plex refusing to stream media that has the no copy flag set, that is not the same as supporting WMDRM DTCP-IP. I have no idea what Plex is doing.
Fox added DRM to their channel around June of last year & the only reason PS4 can play the Fox shows from the servers through Plex is because it supports DRM.
jeff_rigby
Banned
The local FOX station here added DRM to SOME of the sub channels but those channels can not be viewed on a standard TV. DRM in sub channels and h.264, NRT and XTV in sub channels is ATSC 2. In my local Fox channel 13 I can detect but can't view StarZ, Showtime and other premium for pay channels. The 13.1 and some of the sub channels 13.2, 13.3 and 13.4 are not encrypted and use mpegTS (Standard TV codec).
"PS4 can play the Fox shows from the servers through Plex is because it supports DRM." It's more likely that Plex server and dedicated Plex app talk to each other and support the Flags which is a form of DRM but not embedded platform DTCP-IP. Legally DTCP-IP is not required but protecting the content is. Some form of encryption
I haven't checked but the Plex Web APP looks like it can only be supported in Browsers that have the EME MSE DRM hooks enabled.
So your first post is likely partially correct and mine partly wrong. DRM is occurring in Plex with programming that has the proper flags but it's likely not embedded WMDRM10 and not because the TV channel encrypts it unless it's a premium for pay channel..
jeff_rigby
Banned
Sony patents loosely show what future plans are, they show the internal work that may or may not have future use. When you tie the following to contracts with ROVI (TV guide, Gemstar, Metadata patents and services) as well as a 12/15 publish OF A FILED IN 2009 PATENT, it supports their use:
Information processing apparatus and method, and recording media DVR, EPG (Electronic Program Guide) also cataloging local media on Hard Disk, Disk (DVD or Blu-ray) and Flash memory.
Sony has announced that they are going to support DVR features in Europe with USB hard disks attached to their UHD Android TVs. Those TVs do not have DVDs and Blu-ray players. So the patent is possibly for the PS4 or a future blu-ray player with hard disk supporting the Blu-ray digital bridge and or TVs connected to a home network with PS4 or Network connected Blu-ray players with digital bridge.
Automatically presenting rights protected content on previously unauthorized device Example was a phone gaining rights to DRM media from a IPTV Setop box or TV and transferring limited rights to it'self or another device.
Game apparatus, game interruption program, storage medium stored with game interruption program Game suspend and restore
Method and system for altering the presentation of broadcast content Methods for eliminating commercials
Reception apparatus, reception method, program and information processing system ATSC 2 XTV trigger mechanism
Image processing apparatus, image processing method, and image communication system Face recognition/head tracking while the user is wearing 3D glasses (active Shutter or passive 3D) including LED lights attached to the glasses.
And there is more.
Information processing apparatus and method, and recording media DVR, EPG (Electronic Program Guide) also cataloging local media on Hard Disk, Disk (DVD or Blu-ray) and Flash memory.
Sony has announced that they are going to support DVR features in Europe with USB hard disks attached to their UHD Android TVs. Those TVs do not have DVDs and Blu-ray players. So the patent is possibly for the PS4 or a future blu-ray player with hard disk supporting the Blu-ray digital bridge and or TVs connected to a home network with PS4 or Network connected Blu-ray players with digital bridge.
Automatically presenting rights protected content on previously unauthorized device Example was a phone gaining rights to DRM media from a IPTV Setop box or TV and transferring limited rights to it'self or another device.
Game apparatus, game interruption program, storage medium stored with game interruption program Game suspend and restore
Method and system for altering the presentation of broadcast content Methods for eliminating commercials
Reception apparatus, reception method, program and information processing system ATSC 2 XTV trigger mechanism
Image processing apparatus, image processing method, and image communication system Face recognition/head tracking while the user is wearing 3D glasses (active Shutter or passive 3D) including LED lights attached to the glasses.
And there is more.
I'm not sure if this has anything to do with PlayReady but the live game broadcasts in Live from PlayStation now have interactive ads that play before the videos. I'm thinking that the last update was for HTML5 videos & how they can input the interactive ads in the videos.
also I think the patent about the ads in the middle of gameplay is actually about Live from PlayStation because you can also interact with The PlayRoom stream when you are watching someone stream from the PlayRoom so I think that's just a test for other games that will let the viewers join in & interact with the games so the patent was most likely for the ads that will pop up in the middle of the Live From PlayStation stream while people are interacting with the stream.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=475431
also I think the patent about the ads in the middle of gameplay is actually about Live from PlayStation because you can also interact with The PlayRoom stream when you are watching someone stream from the PlayRoom so I think that's just a test for other games that will let the viewers join in & interact with the games so the patent was most likely for the ads that will pop up in the middle of the Live From PlayStation stream while people are interacting with the stream.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=475431
jeff_rigby
Banned
As far as I am concerned, this thread is about:
1) A significant update to the browser and WebMAF framework is coming with Playready
2) The PS3 is not end of life and we will see the PS3 as a Vidipath STB with all that implies.
And yes, some of the updates are to the HTML5<video> EME MSE player with W3C extensions and that includes ads and ad insertion to video streams with all that implies including interactive XTV games as ads which is another thread you started.
You do know that ads have been a part of Twitch and Google for a long time now. It's difficult to determine if what they are doing is custom in an App or Industry standard W3C that we will see everyone support as part of the browser framework that will be in every STB in the living room.
Yes I know ads have been apart of Twitch & Ustream I just don't remember them being clickable ads in Live From PlayStation.
Also if you think about what the patent was about it matches what we have with Live From PlayStation when you can interact with the broadcaster as you view them playing the games & ads will interrupt your interactions to play in the middle of a broadcast.
By the way Live From PlayStation is basically a custom browser.
Crackle has been updated on PS4 with always on using Adobe Primetime.
http://www.adobe.com/marketing-cloud/primetime-tv-platform.html
http://www.adobe.com/marketing-cloud/primetime-tv-platform.html
AuthenticM
Member
Damn, I hope this is true. The current DLNA player on PS4 is not what it should be.
jeff_rigby
Banned
So you are saying that the Sony Crackle app follows Adobe Prime Time formats like the 2010 PS3 framework/player in Firmware 3.5 supporting the HuLu player APP for instance using the Flash server 3.5 format.
Adobe Primetime supports the servers ( broadcasters, cable networks and service providers) with a format the players written by everyone must follow. Possible, someone has to set standards. To this point I assumed the W3C was doing this.
The PS4 Console Bootlog has this:
This looks like Sony's commercial app framework uses Mono calling webkit native libraries.<118>[Syscore App] calling add process
<118>[Syscore App] processSpawn(pid, 0xb0c0101, 0x10101031, appParam, processParam, 0, 0, 0, param, debug, 0)
<118>[Syscore App] appParam: appType = 0x5, rootPath = /mnt/sandbox/NPXS20001_0000, titleId = NPXS20001
<118>[Syscore App] processParam: elfPath = /4VrE1TCMrg/common/lib/MonoCompiler.elf, fullPath = /system/common/lib/MonoCompiler.elf
<118>[PSM] PsmFramework::Initailize() 452 msec. elapsed
<118>W:\Build\J00739822\vsh\cdlg\np_commerce_dialog\server\np_commerce_server_wrapper.cpp(309) initializeCSharp:
<118>MSG AbstractStorageWrapper(int sce::vsh:rbis::abstract_storage::InitializeCSharp() 223):
Some points; the Final apps should be very small not 247 MB so I don't think it's being used for commercial apps yet. They probably are using a stand alone version similar to what should eventually be supported by the OS.
This was just the last thread I remember talking about the TV apps in so I posted here about the Crackle update.
You sure that's not just the Mono implementation for games that use C#? The PSM mention there probably refers to Playstation Mobile, which used C#. Sony was probably considering putting PSM games on PS4 before they decided to ditch the program. I think some PS4 indie games might be straight C# without being compiled down to a native executable, so they kept it in.
jeff_rigby
Banned
With the term "np_commerce_server_wrapper".I think it's a lock. It makes sense; which would you rather use, Javascript or Mono considering security vulnerability and size. Both call the same native libraries that support Webkit.
Did you see the DISPLAY OF USER SELECTED ADVERTISING CONTENT IN A DIGITAL ENVIRONMENT patent I posted last week?
It looks to show MediaCon/Aeolia
jeff_rigby
Banned
Good catch, it's outlining the XTV and HbbTV functions and some of the security. ARM's TEE recommendations have all that inside the TEE on a ARM Trustzone managed bus. Pictures too as they can be used to confirm to the user that the app transaction is secure.Did you see the DISPLAY OF USER SELECTED ADVERTISING CONTENT IN A DIGITAL ENVIRONMENT patent I posted last week?
It looks to show MediaCon/Aeolia
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