Support NeoGAF

[Yoshi]

Having enjoyed the luxurious amount of extra time that comes with a NeoGAF ban, I had to find another way of wasting said times instead of being productive and what better way to waste ones time than to play a Warriors game? Well, not exactly my thoughts, but the same effect, anyway. So, I have played through Hyrule Warriors Legends on Nintendo 3DS (yes, old model, yes, framerate is shit, but the map screen is lag free and almost all enemies can be defeated by (B-B-B-A)* anyway), including the five new missions based around Linkle, the new female Link-look-alike. However, even though I am notoriously not one to beg for a female Link (and please, I don't intend to discuss the importance of one either way in this thread; hard to keep out of ones own threads ), I was insulted by Linkle's writing. Of course, if you are interested in Hyrule Warriors Legends' story and don't want to be spoiled, do not read on and leave the thread.

The whole story about Linkle is
(1) Even though she runs around with a map and a compass, she is completely incapable of finding her way,
(2) Obviously, even though she's given numerous options, fighting alongside Hyrule's warriors, she's also unwilling to ask for the way, so either she does not even recognise she has no orientation whatsoever, or she is to proud to ask - neither is particularly clever
(3) The only other thing we get to know of her is that she is convinced she is someone special. In a prickish way. While Link always seemed quite humble about being told he's the legendary hero, Linkle cannot get herself to stop shouting to the world she is the legendary hero because her granny told her so. Maybe she is, the game doesn't exactly say either way, but she certainly is outspoken about it.

I think her very victory animation is a culmination of her whole story line:
https://youtu.be/oXYx7Zxt310?t=502
After every mission (bar the final one, where she somehow reaches Hyrule Castle) she has won, she looks at her map, making strange (and rather stupid sounding) noises, then points in the wrong direction and runs with a convinced "josh" into said direction. Even if we take the signpost just as a visual cue that she is running into the wrong direction and not an actual signpost, this is rather annoying. I'm not quick to complain about sexist depiction of characters in games, but Linkle is... well, I hope I'll never see her again. And if we do, then make it a labyrinth game. A hard one.

 

[Escalario]

That victory sequence is so moe~

 

[Neuromancer]

Is poking fun at a female character who gets lost and won't ask for directions sexist? Because in the US that is stereotypically a very 'male' thing to do and be made fun of for.

 

[Dystify]

It's probably why I wouldn't like a female version of Link in a mainline game. Japan just does something... weird with women. You see this in anime all the time. No real (Edit: Most) woman behaves like that...

 

[HawthorneKitty]

Sounds anime.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

She sounds like Groose.

 

[SirPenguin]

Arrogance and refusal to ask directions when lost are predominantly male stereotypes

It sort of feels like you were looking for something to be offended over and sort of missed the whole point altogether

 

[Jay Sosa]

It's probably why I wouldn't like a female version of Link in a mainline game. Japan just does something... weird with women. You see this in anime all the time,, No real woman behaves like that...

It's not like any characters in anime are behaving like real persons.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

Do female characters have to be perfect and not have personality faults now? Because she sounds like Zoro from One Piece with the getting lost thing

 

[CronoShot]

I think she's meant to be a sort of parody to Link. Female instead of male, goofy and outgoing instead of quiet and serious.

 

[ponpo]

She really is just the elf from Dragon's Crown isn't she.

 

[SOLDIER]

 

[Yoshi]

Is poking fun at a female character who gets lost and won't ask for directions sexist? Because in the US that is stereotypically a very 'male' thing to do and be made fun of for.

It's not just that, look at the sequence, no one would depict a male not knowing where to go like this. Well, normally I wouldn't expect it for a female either, but well, here it is.

 

[LegendofLex]

I, too, am a bit frustrated by how they squandered their chance to debut a female equivalent to Link who's at least as competent as he is.

I kinda like the whole "she's just an ordinary village girl who heard there were monsters and, inspired by her grandmother's stories about the legendary hero, decided to join in the fighting" backstory idea, but there's something very off about the implementation.

 

[Dystify]

It's not like any characters in anime are behaving like real persons.

Well that's true. It's just even more obnoxious with how women behave there compared to men.

 

[Kayo Police]

Welp that kills the little desire I had for a alternative female Link. Male Link is just perfection in comparison.

 

[Zero-ELEC]

That's not a woman thing that's an anime thing. The fool that thinks they know where they're going. It's a trope. (Warning: TV Tropes link.)

 

[Sylas]

Representation is having people of all ethnicity and genders displayed in any form, so long as it's no bigoted.

A female character does not inherently have to be "good" or without flaws. It's ass-backwards thinking to be insulted when the character does not invoke any offensive stereotypes for laughs. You're free to not like the character, but she is--by definition--an inclusive character. Getting offended is hilariously dumb. Also she does freaking gun-kata.

 

[KingBroly]

I think she's meant to be a sort of parody to Link. Female instead of male, goofy and outgoing instead of quiet and serious.

See, that's what I thought.

She's also super afraid of Tingle instead of accepting his...weirdness. If you consider her cut story stuff to be canon.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

Most male heroes in manga are as dumb as bricks. If you have heroes that are too perfect in every way it's like some crappy fan fiction. Nobody likes it because it feels phoney.

 

[MuddyDonut]

The whole story about Linkle is
(1) Even though she runs around with a map and a compass, she is completely incapable of finding her way,
(2) Obviously, even though she's given numerous options, fighting alongside Hyrule's warriors, she's also unwilling to ask for the way, so either she does not even recognise she has no orientation whatsoever, or she is to proud to ask - neither is particularly clever
(3) The only other thing we get to know of her is that she is convinced she is someone special. In a prickish way. While Link always seemed quite humble about being told he's the legendary hero, Linkle cannot get herself to stop shouting to the world she is the legendary hero because her granny told her so. Maybe she is, the game doesn't exactly say either way, but she certainly is outspoken about it.

Sounds like a play on some male stereotypes and Link himself. Link is humble and Linkle is the opposite. Link, or the player, can use the map and compass efficiently and Linkle can not. Seems like all they are doing is making an opposite Link? Could be worse in game though, but what you wrote is nothing terrible.

 

[butalala]

She sounds (from the video you linked) like a stereotypical dumb blonde. Disappointing.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

It's not just that, look at the sequence, no one would depict a male not knowing where to go like this. Well, normally I wouldn't expect it for a female either, but well, here it is.

This is selection vision at its finest. You're literally seeing what you want to, because this is so common it's a trope

 

[hupla]

It's not just that, look at the sequence, no one would depict a male not knowing where to go like this. Well, normally I wouldn't expect it for a female either, but well, here it is.

she sounds like a Shounen protag

 

[Zero-ELEC]

It's not just that, look at the sequence, no one would depict a male not knowing where to go like this. Well, normally I wouldn't expect it for a female either, but well, here it is.

Look one post above yours.

 

[Corpekata]

Looks like a ton of generic anime girl tropes. They have to give them some sort of trait like being clumsy, being a piggish eater, or being bad at cooking to make them seem "normal."

It always ends up sort of dominating their personality by the end though. See Chie and her love for meat.

 

[Caydel]

It's not just that, look at the sequence, no one would depict a male not knowing where to go like this. Well, normally I wouldn't expect it for a female either, but well, here it is.

Do you watch anime? It's a trope that quite a bit of both male and female characters have.

 

[pinkurocket]

Is it that bad that she's dumb / can't read a map?
Link himself also isn't the smartest cookie. He has courage, sure, but yeah. Usually needs a companion to guide him along.

 

[Magnet_Man]

Having enjoyed the luxurious amount of extra time that comes with a NeoGAF ban, I had to find another way of wasting said times instead of being productive and what better way to waste ones time than to play a Warriors game? Well, not exactly my thoughts, but the same effect, anyway. So, I have played through Hyrule Warriors Legends on Nintendo 3DS (yes, old model, yes, framerate is shit, but the map screen is lag free and almost all enemies can be defeated by (B-B-B-A)* anyway), including the five new missions based around Linkle, the new female Link-look-alike. However, even though I am notoriously not one to beg for a female Link (and please, I don't intend to discuss the importance of one either way in this thread; hard to keep out of ones own threads ), I was insulted by Linkle's writing. Of course, if you are interested in Hyrule Warriors Legends' story and don't want to be spoiled, do not read on and leave the thread.

The whole story about Linkle is
(1) Even though she runs around with a map and a compass, she is completely incapable of finding her way,
(2) Obviously, even though she's given numerous options, fighting alongside Hyrule's warriors, she's also unwilling to ask for the way, so either she does not even recognise she has no orientation whatsoever, or she is to proud to ask - neither is particularly clever
(3) The only other thing we get to know of her is that she is convinced she is someone special. In a prickish way. While Link always seemed quite humble about being told he's the legendary hero, Linkle cannot get herself to stop shouting to the world she is the legendary hero because her granny told her so. Maybe she is, the game doesn't exactly say either way, but she certainly is outspoken about it.

I think her very victory animation is a culmination of her whole story line:
https://youtu.be/oXYx7Zxt310?t=502
After every mission (bar the final one, where she somehow reaches Hyrule Castle) she has won, she looks at her map, making strange (and rather stupid sounding) noises, then points in the wrong direction and runs with a convinced "josh" into said direction. Even if we take the signpost just as a visual cue that she is running into the wrong direction and not an actual signpost, this is rather annoying. I'm not quick to complain about sexist depiction of characters in games, but Linkle is... well, I hope I'll never see her again. And if we do, then make it a labyrinth game. A hard one.

She doesn't ask for directions because to her she...isn't...lost. That's the joke.

Look at this insult to men:

Or this:

Edit: All these Zoro posts. Brofists all around!

 

[Yoshi]

Arrogance and refusal to ask directions when lost are predominantly male stereotypes

It sort of feels like you were looking for something to be offended over and sort of missed the whole point altogether

Naivity in the way she is depicted is not exactly a typical male stereotype. And no I am not looking for something to be offended with, in fact, other than the waifu shit in Fire Emblem this is the first time I have been offended with Nintendo's stuff. Hero rescuing the pretty girl in order to keep the story short & simple? Fine by me. Samus Aran in Metroid Other M? Not exactly flattering maybe, but overall fine (the game itself is shit though). But Linkle? I cringed my way through her campaign.

Do female characters have to be perfect and not have personality faults now? Because she sounds like Zoro from One Piece with the getting lost thing

No, certainly not what I am saying. I don't know who Zoro is, but from what I have experienced with One Piece, I wouldn't exactly put that on a pedestral for good writing.

 

[Frozenprince]

It's not just that, look at the sequence, no one would depict a male not knowing where to go like this. Well, normally I wouldn't expect it for a female either, but well, here it is.

This is a stereotype for a reason.

I mean hell it's a stupidly common trope in Japan, look at all the Zoro stuff that's been posted (which never stops being funny).

 

[SirPenguin]

It's not just that, look at the sequence, no one would depict a male not knowing where to go like this. Well, normally I wouldn't expect it for a female either, but well, here it is.

...what

What a strange opinion. Have you never consumed any other piece of media? Probably the first thing I thought of in reading this is Michael Scott from The Office being so incompetent he drives his car into a lake

 

[Mesoian]

Having enjoyed the luxurious amount of extra time that comes with a NeoGAF ban, I had to find another way of wasting said times instead of being productive and what better way to waste ones time than to play a Warriors game? Well, not exactly my thoughts, but the same effect, anyway. So, I have played through Hyrule Warriors Legends on Nintendo 3DS (yes, old model, yes, framerate is shit, but the map screen is lag free and almost all enemies can be defeated by (B-B-B-A)* anyway), including the five new missions based around Linkle, the new female Link-look-alike. However, even though I am notoriously not one to beg for a female Link (and please, I don't intend to discuss the importance of one either way in this thread; hard to keep out of ones own threads ), I was insulted by Linkle's writing. Of course, if you are interested in Hyrule Warriors Legends' story and don't want to be spoiled, do not read on and leave the thread.

The whole story about Linkle is
(1) Even though she runs around with a map and a compass, she is completely incapable of finding her way,
(2) Obviously, even though she's given numerous options, fighting alongside Hyrule's warriors, she's also unwilling to ask for the way, so either she does not even recognise she has no orientation whatsoever, or she is to proud to ask - neither is particularly clever
(3) The only other thing we get to know of her is that she is convinced she is someone special. In a prickish way. While Link always seemed quite humble about being told he's the legendary hero, Linkle cannot get herself to stop shouting to the world she is the legendary hero because her granny told her so. Maybe she is, the game doesn't exactly say either way, but she certainly is outspoken about it.

I think her very victory animation is a culmination of her whole story line:
https://youtu.be/oXYx7Zxt310?t=502
After every mission (bar the final one, where she somehow reaches Hyrule Castle) she has won, she looks at her map, making strange (and rather stupid sounding) noises, then points in the wrong direction and runs with a convinced "josh" into said direction. Even if we take the signpost just as a visual cue that she is running into the wrong direction and not an actual signpost, this is rather annoying. I'm not quick to complain about sexist depiction of characters in games, but Linkle is... well, I hope I'll never see her again. And if we do, then make it a labyrinth game. A hard one.

...so she's Ryoga?

The stubborn person who refuses to ask for directions and gets constantly lost is a pretty old trope dude.

It's not just that, look at the sequence, no one would depict a male not knowing where to go like this. Well, normally I wouldn't expect it for a female either, but well, here it is.

...are you serious?

 

[Astral Dog]

You put too much thought into this.

 

[Dr. Black Jack]

Seriously, she's very purposely a tongue-in-cheek parody of Link. Instead of being the humble, silent chosen one that goes on the hero's path almost by accident to saving the land she is loud, narcissistic and confidently runs off in the exact wrong direction on baseless delusions of grandeur.

 

[Calamari41]

It's not just that, look at the sequence, no one would depict a male not knowing where to go like this. Well, normally I wouldn't expect it for a female either, but well, here it is.

Are you kidding? "Lost and won't ask for directions" is THE male stereotype.

 

[Xeteh]

It's not just that, look at the sequence, no one would depict a male not knowing where to go like this. Well, normally I wouldn't expect it for a female either, but well, here it is.

Or like the above linked examples of Zoro who gets lost going in a straight line.

 

[AlucardGV]

...so she's Ryoga?

The stubborn person who refuses to ask for directions and gets constantly lost is a pretty old trope dude.

damn, anticipated

+1 for ryouga

 

[-Horizon-]

Most male heroes in manga are as dumb as bricks. If you have heroes that are too perfect in every way it's like some crappy fan fiction. Nobody likes it because it feels phoney.

If she was perfect you can be sure someone here would be making a thread calling her a wish fulfillment Mary Sue.

 

[Enduin]

Traits themselves like that aren't a problem, it's how they're depicted that will make the character great or stink.

 

[Frozenprince]

Are you kidding? "Lost and won't ask for directions" is THE male stereotype.

I can't remember a car commercial, especially from the 90's that had a couple driving that DOESN'T involve this in one way or another.

 

[TwEE-N-Toast]

She's like the Scrappy Doo of the Zelda franchise.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

...what

What a strange opinion. Have you never consumed any other piece of media? Probably the first thing I thought of in reading this is Michael Scott from The Office being so incompetent he drives his car into a lake

You forgot the part about him doing so simply because the GPS told him to. Dumb male characters without a sense of direction (or with other dumb traits) is INCREDIBLY common. Look at nearly EVERY sitcom in the US and if there's a dumb character chances are overwhelmingly so that he's male

 

[OricWindstar]

It's not just that, look at the sequence, no one would depict a male not knowing where to go like this. Well, normally I wouldn't expect it for a female either, but well, here it is.

What? That is one of the biggest stereotypes to depict a male doing. Even the way that is shot is similar to the male (usually a father figure) saying he doesn't need to ask for directions, and then the camera pans out to show a sign suggesting he's going the wrong way.

Your grasping at straws here. She's got plenty of talents and charms. And if her biggest fault is that she has an extremely bad sense of direction, I think it's going to be okay. I'd argue she's actually exactly the type of female gaming character we need more of, because her main character trait isn't that "she's the girl." She's a goofy, fun character that can kick your ass with crossbows.

 

[AcademicSaucer]

This is selection vision at its finest. You're literally seeing what you want to, because this is so common it's a trope

Yes, its a trope

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NoSenseOfDirection

 

[MrChom]

...so she's Ryoga?

The stubborn person who refuses to ask for directions and gets constantly lost is a pretty old trope dude.



...are you serious?

You have no idea where you're going do you, eh, P-Chan.....

 

[Calamari41]

I can't remember a car commercial, especially from the 90's that had a couple driving that DOESN'T involve this in one way or another.

There's a Geico commercial running right now where Tarzan is lost and won't let Jane ask for directions.

 

[Kyou]

I can't believe she has a character flaw, how unrealistic and insulting.

 

[akidnamededdy]

The dialogue surrounding Hyrule Warriors has always been hilarious to me. Early on people were all proud of Nintendo for including so many female characters in the cast, but then that turned into people calling it some kind of Link's Harem Fantasy. Then the Linkle concept art was shown and that started off the whole WE NEED A FEMALE LINK movement that infects nearly every Zelda thread now, and now here we are with "Linkle is fucking stupid and this is awful."

neogaf.gif

Not saying that everyone feels this way because obviously it's not true. It's just funny.

At least she's a freaking force of nature on the actual battlefield.

 

[Sylas]

Naivity in the way she is depicted is not exactly a typical male stereotype. And no I am not looking for something to be offended with, in fact, other than the waifu shit in Fire Emblem this is the first time I have been offended with Nintendo's stuff. Hero rescuing the pretty girl in order to keep the story short & simple? Fine by me. Samus Aran in Metroid Other M? Not exactly flattering maybe, but overall fine (the game itself is shit though). But Linkle? I cringed my way through her campaign.

No, certainly not what I am saying. I don't know who Zoro is, but from what I have experienced with One Piece, I wouldn't exactly put that on a pedestral for good writing.

You seem to be conflating not liking the character with being offended by it. How is she, in any way, offensive? Does she fail at things because she's a girl, or is she simply brash? Does she get belittled by the male characters in the story because she's a girl? Are her negative traits because of her gender--or are they simply dumb character flaws that any number of characters have.

You say you aren't asking for perfection, but you literally are. You're asking for someone that doesn't have these character flaws because you, yourself, don't like them. They fit precisely the same on a male character as they do a female character. They are gender-agnostic.