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[Tal Shiar Agent]

I'm discussing the topic here.
You are going out of your way to harass me and not discussing the topic. If you continue, I will report you to a mod. You have been warned.

You've trotted out the same nonsense the past 20 pages. Complain that Colin was lying by being extremely pedantic about the definition of "most" and Colin's status in the industry. Get repeatedly told that he wasn't lying and that you are being far too pedantic. Leave the thread for a few pages after losing. Repeat.


I haven't been following you around either, the only discourse I've been having with you is in this thread rebuking your claims that Colin was lying.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

Obviously Sony reads the boards I wonder whats their plans are now with unveiling this, has it changed what they was going to do terms of presentation

Why would it change? Most of the people crying about it now are irrational and just following the trend. They need something to complain about to look like they have insight into this other people don't. These companies have way larger interests to appease than some folks whining on a message board. Besides, when the system is available most of them will go out and buy it regardless.

The disagreement this is causing actually means it's the right thing for them to do.

 

[SpideySenses]

Yep. That's the Arthur Gies strategy and it works very well for him. The key is to build yourself an echo chamber and surround yourself with it.

Does the echo chamber include the person sat next to him on the podcast who vehemently disagreed with him?

 

[DidntKnowJack]

You've trotted out the same nonsense the past 20 pages. Complain that Colin was lying by being extremely pedantic about the definition of "most" and Colin's status in the industry. Get repeatedly told that he wasn't lying and that you are being far too pedantic. Leave the thread for a few pages after losing. Repeat.

You're not adding anything to the conversation with gems like "Did Colin fuck your girlfriend or something?" You're obviously trying to provoke this guy.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Smoother/no transition between gens would be very beneficial to devs. No more dealing with weird architectures and new APIs every 7 years or so.

We are moving to a more unified and uniform system and that's good. It allows developers to focus on making games instead of wrestling with the consoles.

Bingo. All in that games as a service ecosystem.

Multiple devs have spoken here on GAF about this, myself included. Most of the negativity is unfounded. A few valid concerns but those can easily be quelled when a valid roadmap is released if it is real and officially announced. Things can go south but I've picked apart the rumors we know with other devs about implementation and moving forward and we are pretty satisfied.

You will find most who don't listen to dev input will only listen to others for self-validation regardless of the few devs here who have spoken.

If we aren't sweating it yet, consumers shouldn't either. It's our livelihoods on the line if consoles tank due to bad decisions. I'm hopeful for the future of consoles and gaming. And I'm one pessimistic motherfucker.

Great point.

Does the echo chamber include the person sat next to him on the podcast who vehemently disagreed with him?

Makes for more entertaining banter doesn't it? The political-esque/ESPN like Red vs. Blue/Pardon The Interruption (PTI).

 

[Diprosalic]

i wish i had a cool name like Moriarty.

 

[Papacheeks]

He shouldn't be laughing. He should be considering how he will lose developer feedback for fear of added hyperbole on what they may say to him. You don't go out on a limb and speak FOR us without speaking TO us, first.

I'm quite sure he can easily reach out to us, if he wants. His rant on the podcast makes it quite clear he is only interested in self-validation.

Can I ask you a question? Are you under NDA? Do you have the PS4" NEO" dev kit in your hands?

If not why are you acting as though you speak for every developer indie or otherwise? You keep saying just ask us, yet unless you have a kit and can talk about(which I doubt since your on this forum) all I see is you dismissing everyone's discussion with your own narrative as though it's gospel.

People who have info on this like Osiris black have actually backed some fears with information from yesterday that points to possible porting scenario.

People have valid claims, I do agree with you the way Colin handled it was not professional like Greg Jeff or beyond discussion did.

But you telling people like myself to stop, is really one sided if you have the same info as us regardless if your a developer.

If you have seen it in use and how it works with your current setup then shed some light unless your under NDA which I totally understand why you can't.

You talking in absolutes and saying " fucking ask us, only dangles condescending insinuations that you know more than people like Jeff or who ever but unless contacted by them can't share it.

Also dismissing some one like Jeff Gerstmann who broke the story with actual specs and documentation I find a little disingenuous that you would dismiss some one who has been in this industry longer than most of us here.

 

[AmuroChan]

Moriarty is now bitching about PS4K and how Sony will screw up existing userbase.

But he will buy PS4K for sure.

He doesn't need to buy one. Sony will surely send a couple units to him and Greg for free. Sony sent them two of the 20th Anniversaey PS4s.

 

[Bashtee]

He's already discredited.
His source did not speak to most developers.

The context of "most" is unclear, thus the whole discussion blown out of proportion.

Unless you're an insider, get mod-approved and can support your claim, you have no credibility whatsoever. Colin on the other hand has connections to the industry and more cred than most people posting in this thread.

You don't go out on a limb and speak FOR us without speaking TO us, first.

To whom exactly, though? A couple of smaller indie devs on NeoGAF, working mostly on 8 or 16 bit 2D games, without access to the PS4 NEO Devkit? That's a fragment of devs who are probably less affected by a new console iteration, simply because the games aren't as demanding.

Spoiler

Except for games based on Unity3D

 

[DeepEnigma]

The context of "most" is unclear, thus the whole discussion blown out of proportion.

Unless you're an insider, get mod-approved and can support your claim, you have no credibility whatsoever. Colin on the other hand has connections to the industry and more cred than most people posting in this thread.

Which can easily be abused when one wants to frame their bias. Hence we have the disingenuous tweet and hyperbole rants that started this thread.

To whom exactly, though? A couple of smaller indie devs on NeoGAF, working mostly on 8 or 16 bit 2D games, without access to the PS4 NEO Devkit? That's a fragment of devs who are probably less affected by a new console iteration, simply because the games aren't as demanding.

Spoiler

Except for games based on Unity3D

Pretty sure Matt and GopherD are not "small Indie devs", nor that should not matter. It is more Dev-ing than Colin is doing.

Bingo. Colin knew a tweet framed and phrased like that would drive attention. It got picked up by many outlets where a simple google search can find that the outlet interpreted the tweet as being far more representative of the dev community than one source talking to a handful of devs that person knew.

There are a thousand ways that tweet could have been written to make the point without overstating it.

It's the video game equivalent of that senator speaking on the floor with a snowball.

Political comparisons, well I'll be...!

 

[CosmicQueso]

Which can easily be abused when one wants to frame their bias. Hence we have the disingenuous tweet and hyperbole rants that started this thread.

Bingo. Colin knew a tweet framed and phrased like that would drive attention. It got picked up by many outlets where a simple google search can find that the outlet interpreted the tweet as being far more representative of the dev community than one source talking to a handful of devs that person knew.

There are a thousand ways that tweet could have been written to make the point without overstating it.

It's the video game equivalent of that senator speaking on the floor with a snowball.

 

[Armadilo]

I'll just say this. "Most" means a lot, the majority basically. The thing is the source guy that told him this could of just talked to only two devs or three devs and the "Most" comment would still be ok because maybe that's all that the guy knows.

So the "Most" was probably thrown in to solidify the opinion. I believe "Talked to some Developers" would of been better. But it goes back to everything basically, people just want you to believe the Neo/PS4K is a horrible idea and that all the Developers think that it's bad as well.

Just wait guys, E3 is near.

 

[mdubs]

People now talking smack about Colin lol. I bet he's getting a good laugh from this thread, people trying to discredit him.

If this is some evil plan by him to gain publicity, he's playing all the people in this thread like a fiddle. And it's good fun to watch people melting down over this, he's probably laughing so hard

 

[H.Cornerstone]

Do people here understand or even know that Colin M. wants a digital only future with the consoles next gen? He doesnt want there to be anymore physical disc that you buy from Walmart, Best Buy, or Amazon.

He wants games to only be sold on the Playstation network. How consumer friendly is that?

False, he has said multiple times it's inevitable so we should just get it over with and go full digital because then maybe games can get cheaper or whatnot.

He has said multiple times he has no problems with buying physical copies and buying and trading in used games.

 

[Jacksinthe]

Can I ask you a question? Are you under NDA? Do you have the PS4" NEO" dev kit in your hands?

If not why are you acting as though you speak for every developer indie or otherwise? You keep saying just ask us, yet unless you have a kit and can talk about(which I doubt since your on this forum) all I see is you dismissing everyone's discussion with your own narrative as though it's gospel.

People who have info on this like Osiris black have actually backed some fears with information from yesterday that points to possible porting scenario.

People have valid claims, I do agree with you the way Colin handled it was not professional like Greg Jeff or beyond discussion did.

But you telling people like myself to stop, is really one sided if you have the same info as us regardless if your a developer.

If you have seen it in use and how it works with your current setup then shed some light unless your under NDA which I totally understand why you can't.

You talking in absolutes and saying " fucking ask us, only dangles condescending insinuations that you know more than people like Jeff or who ever but unless contacted by them can't share it.

Also dismissing some one like Jeff Gerstmann who broke the story with actual specs and documentation I find a little disingenuous that you would dismiss some one who has been in this industry longer than most of us here.

Alright dude. Here it comes and I don't give a fuck.

I don't have a kit and I don't even know if it's fucking real. But let me tell you something, development is a small pool. It's a large industry but a small fucking world and we talk to one another. We speculate. We lament. We cheer. We despise. We do all these things from BOTH perspectives as developers and consumers. It's not this one sided bullshit you talk about.

How fucking dare you.

This isn't just our hobby. For many of us it's our livelihoods. It's our way to put food on the table. Feed our families. We all hope for a healthy fucking industry and we look for ways to offset costs, improve productivity and all around waste less time figuring out "how" so we can DO MORE without wasting fucking time.

We see from BOTH fucking sides of the coin and not just one.

Why do I keep repeating ask us? Because we will tell you our fucking opinions on how it should be handled, the benefits, the pitfalls.

If an iterative future tanks - WE TANK as devs, YOU DON'T as a consumer. So spare me your bullshit rhetoric on what we can and can't say. About what input we are allowed to have because the powers in control of all this need to sort this bullshit out. You get to sit back and watch it all play out. We get to bite our nails, walk on eggshells and pray that our feedback reaches those in charge so they don't fuck it up, regardless of whether or not we have kits or even have the knowledge if this thing actually exists.

I keep saying this has to be executed flawlessly because IT DOES. I keep saying if it doesn't shit will hit the fan because IT WILL. By all counts right now everything SEEMS OK - that's all we have to go on.

This affects me since my game is releasing next year so IF this turns out to be a thing then it will affect me. Just because of these rumors I have to restructure and think ahead. I can't just coast and play a "wait and see" approach because it's MY ASS on the line. It's EVERY DEV'S ASS on the line.

Is YOUR ass on the line? Are you on the hook if the console industry goes boom? Can you still feed your family if the console space crashes?

You don't think we read all the negative shit being said because of a simple fucking hyperbole-laden tweet that has fuck all backing it up? You don't think studios RIGHT NOW are shifting "in case shit"?

Spare me. There's a LOT riding on this going well and we will speak our fucking minds if we want.

 

[Jacksinthe]

To whom exactly, though? A couple of smaller indie devs on NeoGAF, working mostly on 8 or 16 bit 2D games, without access to the PS4 NEO Devkit? That's a fragment of devs who are probably less affected by a new console iteration, simply because the games aren't as demanding.

Spoiler

Except for games based on Unity3D

Every dev. AAA or indie doesn't matter. Not just here. The guy can easily reach out to devs if he wants actual views instead of self-serving validation of his beliefs.

 

[Papacheeks]

Alright dude. Here it comes and I don't give a fuck.

I don't have a kit and I don't even know if it's fucking real. But let me tell you something, development is a small pool. It's a large industry but a small fucking world and we talk to one another. We speculate. We lament. We cheer. We despise. We do all these things from BOTH perspectives as developers and consumers. It's not this one sided bullshit you talk about.

How fucking dare you.
This isn't just our hobby. For many of us it's our livelihoods. It's our way to put food on the table. Feed our families. We all hope for a healthy fucking industry and we look for ways to offset costs, improve productivity and all around waste less time figuring out "how" so we can DO MORE without wasting fucking time.

We see from BOTH fucking sides of the coin and not just one.
Why do I keep repeating ask us? Because we will tell you our fucking opinions on how it should be handled, the benefits, the pitfalls.
If an iterative future tanks - WE TANK as devs, YOU DON'T as a consumer. So spare me your bullshit rhetoric on what we can and can't say. About what input we are allowed to have because the powers in control of all this need to sort this bullshit out. You get to sit back and watch it all play out. We get to bite our nails, walk on eggshells and pray that our feedback reaches those in charge so they don't fuck it up, regardless of whether or not we have kits or even have the knowledge if this thing actually exists.

I keep saying this has to be executed flawlessly because IT DOES. I keep saying if it doesn't shit will hit the fan because IT WILL. By all counts right now everything SEEMS OK - that's all we have to go on.
This affects me since my game is releasing next year so IF this turns out to be a thing then it will affect me. Just because of these rumors I have to restructure and think ahead. I can't just coast and play a "wait and see" approach because it's MY ASS on the line. It's EVERY DEV'S ASS on the line.
Is YOUR ass on the line? Are you on the hook if the console industry goes boom? Can you still feed your family if the console space crashes?

You don't think we read all the negative shit being said because of a simple fucking hyperbole-laden tweet that has fuck all backing it up? You don't think studios RIGHT NOW are shifting "in case shit"?
Spare me. There's a LOT riding on this going well and we will speak our fucking minds if we want.

Well when there have been some devs before this document Austin walker discovered and Jeff talked about on The lobby, Patrick Klepek had talked to some. And none even knew about it for one. And others didn't seem so thrilled about. To what extent he asked them and their response I have no clue. I want progression for the better of this industry. I went to school for this industry have a friend who's a concept artist for gearbox, the other worked on assassins Creed 3 who then switched to work for Google.

I know you all talk to one another that's how partnerships, studios and ideas come about.
But your talking in your response like you represent a Majority of devs. Which you don't.
Let's wait and see how this pans out. But people with concerns have valid concerns and just because you think this is great for developers and are connected to the industry doesn't invalidate people's views.
Iv never seen any dev talk the way you do in dismissing people's concerns and discussion. You told me to " Stop it" and basically were trying to dismiss my concerns just because your a dev.

I think it'd awesome developers like your self are on gaf and part of the conversation. But it does not give you the right to try and shoe horn a narrative just because.
Go look back at some of your responses. You talk in almost absolutes. And I'm not saying your wrong, but I'm also saying you don't know how this will play out either. Which is why we have discussions to begin with on things like these.

And seriously " How fucking dare you" comment. Go read how you responded to people in this thread.
Your getting emotional when I was asking you a question. And your a acting like I'm attacking you when your responses have harsh emotional responses.
I'm not attacking your livelihood no one here is, but the way your responding is like people who are against it are shitting on your lawn. It's all conjecture but some with valid concerns.
I see it from your perspective how this can be great, but I also acknowledge how it can be bad and gave reasons for it. I am not the one in this thread saying: " just bought a ps4. Fuck U SONY". I would say I'm being very rational on what we have so far for info.

 

[HarryKS]

Are you on the same site as the rest of us? NX threads were getting so crazy they have been getting closed.

As for SONY think they should be a bit worried that their system hasn't even been announced yet and they is already a bunch of negativety around it. Which is probably a first for a SONY console.

Yes.

There's none anymore. They started off baseless rumours. Now, nothing. There's a lot more PS4k threads.

 

[Movalpolos]

The context of "most" is unclear, thus the whole discussion blown out of proportion.

Unless you're an insider, get mod-approved and can support your claim, you have no credibility whatsoever. Colin on the other hand has connections to the industry and more cred than most people posting in this thread.



To whom exactly, though? A couple of smaller indie devs on NeoGAF, working mostly on 8 or 16 bit 2D games, without access to the PS4 NEO Devkit? That's a fragment of devs who are probably less affected by a new console iteration, simply because the games aren't as demanding.

Spoiler

Except for games based on Unity3D

I have worked at Activision, EA and SE. Worked at 2 E3s, been to 8. I have friends who work as devs in the industry. People I grew up and went to school with. I'm under no obligation to reveal that info to you or anyone else on this board. I'm not claiming to have inside info. When I do, IF I do, I will go through the proper channels.

 

[timmyp53]

But your talking in your response like you represent a Majority of devs. Which you don't.

You still don't get it.
Unless Colin reiterates that he isn't just talking about a couple of indie developer friends then theres no reason to just jump to some weird conclusion like "most" developers don't like the idea. I don't see how you can be so dense about it. Do you think he was engaged and entrenched in some investigative journalism? Lets just leave it as: he got some opinions from some friends but they don't represent every developer.

 

[The_Lump]

He's already discredited.
His source did not speak to most developers.

Still going with this huh? smh.

So even if you're right and he was trying to decieve us all; do we just dismiss the opinions of the (however many) devs his source did speak to?

Your argument is bordering on playground tactics. It's semantics, and you cannot use that to sweep opinions you don't like under the rug.

 

[timmyp53]

Still going with this huh? smh.

So even if you're right and he was trying to decieve us all; do we just dismiss the opinions of the (however many) devs his source did speak to?

You don't discredit it but say it's only two sources opinions out of the thousands of devs then his tweet's purpose is kinda called into question.

 

[The_Lump]

You don't discredit it but say it's only two sources opinions out of the thousands of devs then his tweet's purpose is kinda called into question.

But that requires us to jump to a conclusion aswell. We don't know if it's 2, 3, 10 devs or whatever. But we do know he wasn't trying to imply "most devs in the world" as Movalpolos has been trying to peddle for the majority of this thread, in a thinly veiled attempt to validate ignoring opinions he doesn't agree with.

 

[timmyp53]

But that requires us to jump to a conclusion aswell. We don't know if it's 2, 3, 10 devs or whatever. But we do know he wasn't trying to imply "most devs in the world" as the guy I'm replying to has been trying to peddle for the majority of this thread.

Well if you look at Colin's phrasing he does kinda just throw a broad blanket and say most devs are not happy. He could have easily just said a trusted source tells me most developers he knows are not happy. Semantics change everything. If that was the way he said it this thread more than likely wouldn't be this huge.

 

[The_Lump]

Well if you look at Colin's phrasing he does kinda just throw a broad blanket and say most devs are not happy. He could have easily just said a trusted source tells me most developers he knows are not happy. Semantics change everything. If that was the way he said it this thread more than likely wouldn't be this huge.

"Source says: most devs not happy".

The most logical assumption is he means most developers that the source spoke to. Unless his source is the NSA he's unlikely to have access to every debelopers opinion.

Common sense has to play a part here. And whether you read it another way or not doesn't mean we can dismiss his comment completely. That's the only point I'm debating here.

 

[Gamer @ Heart]

This thread wouldn't be so huge if you guys didn't feel the need to correct someone on the internet about a thing you're looking forward too.

How enjoyable is going around in circles like this? Just let the thread die.

Edit: gah, on mobile and forgot to quote. But seriously people, look at what you are literally arguig about. This is not a discussion, it's bickering

 

[CosmicQueso]

"Source says: most devs not happy".

The most logical assumption is he means most developers that the source spoke to. Unless his source is the NSA he's unlikely to have access to every debelopers opinion.

Common sense has to play a part here. And whether you read it another way or not doesn't mean we can dismiss his comment completely. That's the only point I'm debating here.

That's not how it was said.

What if the "source" was from within Sony, someone who was tasked with polling developers? And that person said "most"???

That's FAR different that a random developer acquaintance source that spoke with other acquaintances,

Why is this so hard to get heads around?

It's insincere at best.

 

[Papacheeks]

You still don't get it.
Unless Colin reiterates that he isn't just talking about a couple of indie developer friends then there is no reason to just jump to some weird conclusion like "most" developers don't like the idea. I don't see how you can be so dense about it. Do you think he was engaged and entrenched in some investigative journalism? Lets just leave it as: he got some opinions from some friends but they don't represent every developer.

Getting sick of your dumb gifs. Where did I say most developers don't like it? I brought up couple things that came up when patrick klepek broke the story and asked around foe developer input.

All I ever said in this thread that colin was not alone in his opinion on where this console may or may not lead.

I brought up The lobby video that has to me the best discussion so far on the matter by Jeff and Danny O'dyer who lament similar concerns but do so in a professional manner.

Where in this thread did I talk about definitively all developers dont like this? I said that Jack doesn't' represent everyone or the entire industry for that matter.

 

[Neuromancer]

I bet Phil Spencer and Reggie Filsaime can't wait for the great exodus of developers who are going to be leaving the PlayStation ecosystem in droves.

 

[Alucrid]

Can I ask you a question? Are you under NDA? Do you have the PS4" NEO" dev kit in your hands?

If not why are you acting as though you speak for every developer indie or otherwise? You keep saying just ask us, yet unless you have a kit and can talk about(which I doubt since your on this forum) all I see is you dismissing everyone's discussion with your own narrative as though it's gospel.

People who have info on this like Osiris black have actually backed some fears with information from yesterday that points to possible porting scenario.

People have valid claims, I do agree with you the way Colin handled it was not professional like Greg Jeff or beyond discussion did.

But you telling people like myself to stop, is really one sided if you have the same info as us regardless if your a developer.

If you have seen it in use and how it works with your current setup then shed some light unless your under NDA which I totally understand why you can't.

You talking in absolutes and saying " fucking ask us, only dangles condescending insinuations that you know more than people like Jeff or who ever but unless contacted by them can't share it.

Also dismissing some one like Jeff Gerstmann who broke the story with actual specs and documentation I find a little disingenuous that you would dismiss some one who has been in this industry longer than most of us here.

Austin Walker broke the story.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I bet Phil Spencer and Reggie Filsaime can't wait for the great exodus of developers who are going to be leaving the PlayStation ecosystem in droves.

Until they come out with their own versions of this? Personally speaking, even if Sony were the only ones doing it, i don't think its a big enough deal that devs would abstain or boycott sony for it, especially considering publishers are the ones with that leverage, not the devs they own

 

[DeepEnigma]

I bet Phil Spencer and Reggie Filsaime can't wait for the great exodus of developers who are going to be leaving the PlayStation ecosystem in droves.

 

[tuxfool]

Well when there have been some devs before this document Jeff discovered, Patrick kleptivk had talked to some.

You could at least get the people right. The document was leaked to Austin Walker.

Also Patrick's surname is Klepek. Also from the description of Patrick's article you can't infer their opinions at all, other than they were interested in it.

 

[tuxfool]

"Source says: most devs not happy".

The most logical assumption is he means most developers that the source spoke to. Unless his source is the NSA he's unlikely to have access to every debelopers opinion.

Common sense has to play a part here. And whether you read it another way or not doesn't mean we can dismiss his comment completely. That's the only point I'm debating here.

Source says: Most developers I've spoken to are not happy.

This is clear. And more exact. Something that somebody that was previously of the press should be able to communicate clearly.

 

[Cipherr]

Why would it change? Most of the people crying about it now are irrational and just following the trend. They need something to complain about to look like they have insight into this other people don't. These companies have way larger interests to appease than some folks whining on a message board. Besides, when the system is available most of them will go out and buy it regardless.

The disagreement this is causing actually means it's the right thing for them to do.

Well now.... Thats some.. interesting logic there I suppose.

That's not how it was said.

What if the "source" was from within Sony, someone who was tasked with polling developers? And that person said "most"???

That's FAR different that a random developer acquaintance source that spoke with other acquaintances,

Why is this so hard to get heads around?

It's insincere at best.

I dunno, to me this seems like you have issues. Like.... you dont understand the way language works at times. There's no reason for you to assume he spoke to every developer in existence even IF his source was within Sony, due to the number of them in general. You are kind of acting like that guy in Guardians of the Galaxy who takes everything super literal and misses context and whatnot repeatedly.

Any reasonable person would assume he meant 'of those he reached out to, the majority felt a certain way'. Of the people who somehow DIDN'T understand it initially, at least half of those people would understand the context of the statement once explained; leaving.... you and a handful of others still arguing the absolute literal definition of a few words looking for something to be upset about.

I'm so hungry I could eat a horse. (Don't PeTA me bro.)

 

[EventHorizon]

This affects me since my game is releasing next year so IF this turns out to be a thing then it will affect me. Just because of these rumors I have to restructure and think ahead. I can't just coast and play a "wait and see" approach because it's MY ASS on the line. It's EVERY DEV'S ASS on the line.

I know you don't have any actual information about the Neo, but right now what do you think would be the absolute minimum you would have to do to support it? My impression is that you'd have to make sure your game ran at 1080p and that the increased hardware specs didn't screw up your game somehow. For example if some gameplay feature were directly tied to the CPU clock speed, that'd be a problem. I assume that the extra horsepower of the Neo would make hitting 1080p pretty straightforward for any game that is lower rez but playable on the PS4. The biggest hurdle I'd see would be testing since you'd have to confirm that the game worked both for the PS4 and the Neo. However that seems like even that would be a fraction of the testing needed to make sure the game worked on numerous component configurations on the PCs.

Does that sound about right? Am I missing something?

 

[timmyp53]

Where did I say most developers don't like it?.

Where did I say that you said that friend? I thought we were talking about what Colin said.

 

[...Scatter...]

Oooh man, you guys are in your feelings today. As a consumer that's only concerned with the final product and doesn't need know how the meat gets to my plate I hope everything works out the same reason devs do: I want this industry to be healthy so we'll continue to get great games with good budgets. That won't happen if games/systems don't sell because of a lack of engagement.

 

[CosmicQueso]

I dunno, to me this seems like you have issues. Like.... you dont understand the way language works at times. There's no reason for you to assume he spoke to every developer in existence even IF his source was within Sony, due to the number of them in general. You are kind of acting like that guy in Guardians of the Galaxy who takes everything super literal and misses context and whatnot repeatedly.

Any reasonable person would assume he meant 'of those he reached out to, the majority felt a certain way'. Of the people who somehow DIDN'T understand it initially, at least half of those people would understand the context of the statement once explained; leaving.... you and a handful of others still arguing the absolute literal definition of a few words looking for something to be upset about.

I'm so hungry I could eat a horse. (Don't PeTA me bro.)

Colin is in a position where he knows people at Sony that could, quite literally, know if an honest majority of developers were against it.

This isn't just some Youtuber or random blogger. This is a guy with the most popular, most listened to PlayStation podcast on the Internet.

He has a very special position amongst people covering PlayStation so that he speaks from a position of knowledge and authority.

If you want to throw personal insults and passive aggressively say I have some kind of mental disability, well good for you I guess. One way of avoiding the issue I guess.

 

[timmyp53]

This isn't just some Youtuber or random blogger. This is a guy with the most popular, most listened to PlayStation podcast on the Internet.

Theres no reason to just accept anecdotal passed down opinions though. Every time I've heard Colin bring up something about rumors or something they've heard about he always referred to them as rumblings. Whos to say that these rumblings/hearsay aren't just coming from here. On their last gamescast they talk about industry/gaming secrets that were hard to keep --and they literally throw out nothing. That's not to say they don't have any knowledge or connection of whats happening but to just blindly accept a tweet like this is silly imo.

 

[lynux3]

Couldn't even listen to this weeks podcast because Colin's disgusting rant on a product he admittedly is going to buy, but is looking out for poor kids. The guy has been super negative lately or he's tired. Greg just had that look on his face like dude, stfu.

 

[CosmicQueso]

Theres no reason to just accept anecdotal passed down opinions though. Every time I've heard Colin bring up something about rumors or something they've heard about he always referred to them as rumblings. Whos to say that these rumblings/hearsay aren't just coming from here. On their last gamescast they talk about industry/gaming secrets that were hard to keep --and they literally throw out nothing. That's not to say they don't have any knowledge or connection of whats happening but to just blindly accept a tweet like this is silly imo.

Absolutely.

 

[Papacheeks]

Where did I say that you said that friend? I thought we were talking about what Colin said.

I must have misread your post then?

My bad friend.

 

[Jacksinthe]

I know you don't have any actual information about the Neo, but right now what do you think would be the absolute minimum you would have to do to support it? My impression is that you'd have to make sure your game ran at 1080p and that the increased hardware specs didn't screw up your game somehow. For example if some gameplay feature were directly tied to the CPU clock speed, that'd be a problem. I assume that the extra horsepower of the Neo would make hitting 1080p pretty straightforward for any game that is lower rez but playable on the PS4. The biggest hurdle I'd see would be testing since you'd have to confirm that the game worked both for the PS4 and the Neo. However that seems like even that would be a fraction of the testing needed to make sure the game worked on numerous component configurations on the PCs.

Does that sound about right? Am I missing something?

Engine wise we use Unity (gasp!). Performance wise we are a few hundred FPS unlocked on PS4 so we have no issues there.

I am the only programmer, however. This means I need to make sure all of my custom tools work (I don't use 3rd party Unity extensions, I roll my own), anything integrated on a system level works, any possible new bugs, etc.

As is I use conditionals when I code and heavily compartmentalize (I'm OCD) so this will make bug tracking easier. Its a lot more testing in the end and that's fine. As long as any changes to my custom tools aren't a typical generation-style change I'll be good. By all accounts the transitions should be smooth. I won't be affected by resolution or framerate requirements as I'm rock solid with performance and time to frame. I actually prefer PS4 development over PC due to how I can write everything for the smoothest experience.

I imagine there will be some changes but I've been developing our game on PS4 for over a year and I'm fairly comfortable with the environment at this point. I expect a few hiccups but nothing major.

I think the biggest hit would be to my wallet for kits. I can't be the only one programing and playing - we aren't kick-starting and don't have a publisher so I work 2 jobs to afford gamedev and for the rest of my team.

I'm expecting some leeway for indie devs. Sony has been great to work with so I don't think they will change. I will be happy to move forward if this thing is real as I see it as a benefit for me as a dev and a consumer if they do this right. A lot can change for the worse to make this a no-go but right now I'm satisfied and not worried for the extra bit of legwork. Once I get my tools up to snuff I'll be golden.

 

[Cipherr]

If you want to throw personal insults and passive aggressively say I have some kind of mental disability, well good for you I guess. One way of avoiding the issue I guess.

Really? I'm the one avoiding the issue? I'm in a thread where a guy says a lot of devs may not be happy with 4.5; and you are here to take issue with the way in which he articulated that idea as opposed to the actual topic about whether or not console developers may or may not be fond of mid generation hardware splinters.

But yeah, I'm the one looking to avoid discourse on the 'issue' at hand. Changing the subject if you will.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Really? I'm the one avoiding the issue? I'm in a thread where a guy says a lot of devs may not be happy with 4.5; and you are here to take issue with the way in which he articulated that idea as opposed to the actual topic about whether or not console developers may or may not be fond of mid generation hardware splinters.

But yeah, I'm the one looking to avoid discourse on the 'issue' at hand. Changing the subject if you will.

Let's not get too coy, he said MOST. But hey, he played the semantics game too.

Couldn't even listen to this weeks podcast because Colin's disgusting rant on a product he admittedly is going to buy, but is looking out for poor kids. The guy has been super negative lately or he's tired. Greg just had that look on his face like dude, stfu.

I did not listen to the podcast this week just by the feedback others have given. I would not want to go on a rant, seeing Colin polish his iPhone in the beginning of every show, then going on a tangent of interim upgrades on another closed ecosystem.

 

[CosmicQueso]

Really? I'm the one avoiding the issue? I'm in a thread where a guy says a lot of devs may not be happy with 4.5; and you are here to take issue with the way in which he articulated that idea as opposed to the actual topic about whether or not console developers may or may not be fond of mid generation hardware splinters.

But yeah, I'm the one looking to avoid discourse on the 'issue' at hand. Changing the subject if you will.

Still at it.

The point of the whole fucking discussion is precisely to gauge just how many developers are unhappy with this.

His tweet says *most*. That's a majority. If a majority of the developers out there are not happy with this, we have a big problem. All of us. Gamers, developers, publishers. This would be tremendously bad. A change of course would be called for immediately.

If *some* developers don't like it, then we have a different thing entirely. Then it becomes more understanding why, looking to make better, or changing course if it turns out that it is warranted.

You accuse me of playing semantics. It's not semantics at all. It's actually trying to understand what is being said.

It was a stupid tweet. There's nothing anyone can take from it. It has no real meaning or explanation of the context of what the tweet refers to. He could have avoided this a number of different ways.

That's my whole point. Even if you 100% align with his viewpoint, any rational person would say it could have been expressed much better.

I'm not saying he's a bad person, I love the guy. I respect his viewpoint. But it was a dumb tweet.

 

[tiredheadcrab]

The problem with the tweet was that it can be it can be interpreted in a way that can be misleading. I don't think Sony or Microsoft are stupid enough to go against their 3rd parties and just release this without their input. I am sure developers like EA, Activision, Ubisoft all knew this was a thing long before the rumors came out. I don't think either company is that stupid really.

I like Colin and will still listen to the podcast all the time. But he needs to sit back and understand the situation a little bit more. The whole argument of sticking up for the guy that just bought the ps4 isn't really that big of a deal. That won't be a long sticking point and overtime the argument will weaken itself out.

 

[mckmas8808]

Engine wise we use Unity (gasp!). Performance wise we are a few hundred FPS unlocked on PS4 so we have no issues there.

I am the only programmer, however. This means I need to make sure all of my custom tools work (I don't use 3rd party Unity extensions, I roll my own), anything integrated on a system level works, any possible new bugs, etc.

As is I use conditionals when I code and heavily compartmentalize (I'm OCD) so this will make bug tracking easier. Its a lot more testing in the end and that's fine. As long as any changes to my custom tools aren't a typical generation-style change I'll be good. By all accounts the transitions should be smooth. I won't be affected by resolution or framerate requirements as I'm rock solid with performance and time to frame. I actually prefer PS4 development over PC due to how I can write everything for the smoothest experience.

I imagine there will be some changes but I've been developing our game on PS4 for over a year and I'm fairly comfortable with the environment at this point. I expect a few hiccups but nothing major.

I think the biggest hit would be to my wallet for kits. I can't be the only one programing and playing - we aren't kick-starting and don't have a publisher so I work 2 jobs to afford gamedev and for the rest of my team.

I'm expecting some leeway for indie devs. Sony has been great to work with so I don't think they will change. I will be happy to move forward if this thing is real as I see it as a benefit for me as a dev and a consumer if they do this right. A lot can change for the worse to make this a no-go but right now I'm satisfied and not worried for the extra bit of legwork. Once I get my tools up to snuff I'll be golden.

I swear I wish more people would read what you are saying as a developer on the PS4 as we speak.

Like you are literally programming a video game on the system that we are discussing about, but most would rather pay attention to a talking head on a podcast (no hate because I like Colin) about what he "heard" for some devs with no names or companies attached.

 

[DeepEnigma]

The problem with the tweet was that it can be it can be interpreted in a way that can be misleading. I don't think Sony or Microsoft are stupid enough to go against their 3rd parties and just release this without their input. I am sure developers like EA, Activision, Ubisoft all knew this was a thing long before the rumors came out. I don't think either company is that stupid really.

I like Colin and will still listen to the podcast all the time. But he needs to sit back and understand the situation a little bit more. The whole argument of sticking up for the guy that just bought the ps4 isn't really that big of a deal. That won't be a long sticking point and overtime the argument will weaken itself out.

I swear I wish more people would read what you are saying as a developer on the PS4 as we speak.

Like you are literally programming a video game on the system that we are discussing about, but most would rather pay attention to a talking head on a podcast (no hate because I like Colin) about what he "heard" for some devs with no names or companies attached.

.