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Digital Foundry: Spec Analysis: Xbox Project Scorpio
- Thread starter Theorry
- Start date
Raven117
Member
I mean, while I like "power" and new fancy consoles and all, but conventional wisdom supports this.
It is usually this time in the cycle that we start to get some truly awesome games. Developers have taken a crack at the new hardware, have a feel for it, and then can focus on the games themselves instead of making them graphical powerhouses.
Now, developers are going to have to learn the new hardware again (maybe not from scratch, but there will be a learning curve and a focus on what they can get out of the specs). We will get remakes of remakes!
The industry has been saying for awhile that things are going to change...I think, with this announcement of Scorpio, we are going to start to see real change in all this going forward.
By that logic 720p graphics should look crazy good. So many bash 720p, but the pixel difference isn't that big of a jump to 1080p.
720p = 921,600 pixels
1080p = 2,073,600 pixels
While the leap to 4k is a massive 8,294,400 pixel difference.
I'm glad Microsoft is pushing 4k because Its time for hardware to make that jump. Most folks are walking around with 5" smartphones in their pocket with resolutions of 1080p or greater. No reason for the livingroom/bedroom tv resolution to stay stagnant.
You can pick up a cheap 43" 4k tv from Walmart for $249. Its pretty much been that price all year.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Sceptre-U435CV-U-43-4K-Ultra-HD-2160p-60Hz-LED-HDTV-4K-x-2K/46867816
Interesting.
Green Yoshi
Member
And with 60 fps.
4K + 60 fps requires a very expensive PC, so I don't think that Scorpio will be able to reach this target in AAA-productions.
So you think Sony wants to sell Playstation VR and Playstation 4 Neo this holiday season?
Why not waint until 2017 to match the specs of Scorpio?
Green Yoshi
Member
Nothing.
Not really because 720p looks bad on 40+" TV.
If it can't reach 60 then it might as well be 30... Which makes the extra power not that important as developers will still be developing for ps4/xone so wouldn't expect to much extra work done on using a Scorpio max power
mavericktopgun
Member
I just want 1080P with 60fps and unbelievable graphics. 4K is NES graphics...
Katze mit Hut
Member
I´m not buying a 4k TV in the next few years so this Scorpio/Neo stuff is not for me, if they aim for 4k native.
But i don´t think it will be. They will use that power to make better visuals. Doing so alongside a x4 increase of pixels (and a push from 30 to 60 fps) will take more raw power than these consoles will offer. 4-6 TFlops are way too weak to achieve 4k/60fps AND better graphics.
But i don´t think it will be. They will use that power to make better visuals. Doing so alongside a x4 increase of pixels (and a push from 30 to 60 fps) will take more raw power than these consoles will offer. 4-6 TFlops are way too weak to achieve 4k/60fps AND better graphics.
Uncompressed pixels. The most beautiful pixels you've ever seen.
Katze mit Hut
Member
Thats what you will likely get. The installbase of 4k-TVs is tiny. Even in 2017.
ethomaz
Banned
Neo was created due PS4 not having enough power to VR experience.
Yeap Neo and PSVR are a complement of each other.
I have a 980ti which is close to 6 teraflops, you are only looking at 30fps with that power at 4k for current games with slightly better settings over ps4/xone, but you can max out eye candy at 1080 with 60fps in most games. This is the route I see most developers taking, and in this route there would not be much difference between a 4.5 to card to a 6
ethomaz
Banned
Scorpio power is measured in AMD FLOPs... not nVidia.
It is 6TFs like RX 480.
GTX 980ti has more raw power than RX 480 or Scorpio.
Said that you will see low/mid settings 4k 30fps games in Scorpio but it is not enough for high/ultra settings or 60fps in 4k.
The 480 will be 5.5, the 1070 6.5. So it'll rather be 490. My point is that I just don't see a reasonable prseeling price for a 6 tlops console...
sturgboski
Member
I can't wait to go from a console release where a 40% performance advantage doesn't matter to one where a 40% performance advantage suddenly matter a whole lot.
ethomaz
Banned
RX 480 at 1266Mhz (the rumored clock) is a 5.84TFs GPU.
nVidia 6.5 TFs is more like over AMD 8 TFs.
capylikesgames
Banned
Let them have this. Sony will always have a solid exclusives lineup, always. Not to dismiss MS's exclusives, I think they've been doing a pretty good job this generation, but it isn't going to hurt Sony if MS gains the hardware advantage. As long as Sony doesn't do anything stupid, and keeps their first party/third party lineup healthy, I don't think they have anything to fear with Scorpio. Sony's built a good relationship through software over the years, and I doubt they will suffer a big hit in their audience solely over specs.
I love Sony, and I'm happy for the PS4's success, but it's exciting to see the playing field possibly evened out again. This generation was a bit depressing in that regard, and I know it was MS's own bad decisions to blame, but I recall another company making similarly stupid launch decisions a gen before, and hardly anyone refused to forgive them when they attoned for it. If Sony just leaves their specs alone and focuses on the software support, this next wave of hardware could be very interesting. I know saying this might piss some people off, but it's healthy competition. Everyone wins here, honestly.
Also I want to note, as someone who plays on PC, I don't think Scorpio is in danger over a hardware focus. I understand why many dismiss a Scorpio purchase. However, not everyone has the time or patience for a PC. I feel there's still a big audience for plug-and-play boxes, and although consoles are a bit more complicated nowadays, they're still a lot better about it than a PC. Not to mention affordability; consoles will always have that price advantage thanks to software. I think the price difference between a Scorpio-level PC and Scorpio will be big enough to turn some heads. Not to say Scorpio will be a cheap console, but I think MS will make a pretty good offer.
All in all, I don't see any negatives, here. People looking for a richer library of exclusive experiences will always have Sony. Specs really don't make a console, just look at the PS2. And those who care more about third party games and visual fidelity seem to have MS to fall back on, now. I think that's lovely, as it evens it all out among the audience. I've seen so many people on the fence to buy a One and reconsider because their 4 does so much more. Now people finally have a reason to consider both and, blows to our wallets aside, I think that's fantastic to see again. I'm probably not going to get across to anyone when I say this, but let's not be pessimists about this development, let the competitors have their fun, and hell, consider jumping along for the ride.
...now I'm just waiting for Ninty to fix their mess. I'd love to see that happen one of these days.
I love Sony, and I'm happy for the PS4's success, but it's exciting to see the playing field possibly evened out again. This generation was a bit depressing in that regard, and I know it was MS's own bad decisions to blame, but I recall another company making similarly stupid launch decisions a gen before, and hardly anyone refused to forgive them when they attoned for it. If Sony just leaves their specs alone and focuses on the software support, this next wave of hardware could be very interesting. I know saying this might piss some people off, but it's healthy competition. Everyone wins here, honestly.
Also I want to note, as someone who plays on PC, I don't think Scorpio is in danger over a hardware focus. I understand why many dismiss a Scorpio purchase. However, not everyone has the time or patience for a PC. I feel there's still a big audience for plug-and-play boxes, and although consoles are a bit more complicated nowadays, they're still a lot better about it than a PC. Not to mention affordability; consoles will always have that price advantage thanks to software. I think the price difference between a Scorpio-level PC and Scorpio will be big enough to turn some heads. Not to say Scorpio will be a cheap console, but I think MS will make a pretty good offer.
All in all, I don't see any negatives, here. People looking for a richer library of exclusive experiences will always have Sony. Specs really don't make a console, just look at the PS2. And those who care more about third party games and visual fidelity seem to have MS to fall back on, now. I think that's lovely, as it evens it all out among the audience. I've seen so many people on the fence to buy a One and reconsider because their 4 does so much more. Now people finally have a reason to consider both and, blows to our wallets aside, I think that's fantastic to see again. I'm probably not going to get across to anyone when I say this, but let's not be pessimists about this development, let the competitors have their fun, and hell, consider jumping along for the ride.
...now I'm just waiting for Ninty to fix their mess. I'd love to see that happen one of these days.
Abilidebob
Member
You don't really need a 4k TV to take advantage of 4k resolution though. Downsampling has been a thing on PC for ages, I can't see why Sony and Microsoft wouldn't use it.
Chill Penguin
Member
I don't understand why so many people seem negative about Scorpio. It seems like it's going to be a beast of a console, similar to what Xbox and 360 were at the time of their release. I love the Xbox live ecosystem, and after learning their lesson from an underpowered xbone they seem to be delivering big time. I can't wait to get my hands on this thing!
diffusionx
Gold Member
The fact that the Scorpio is so much more powerful than the Neo is really interesting. But so is the fact that the Neo is almost certainly going to beat it to launch. Is it going to be XO vs. Neo for a year? Or six months? That will make a big difference IMO.
Also - we haven't heard Scorpio in terms of "profiles" and the like the way Sony has, right? I would bet MS will release patches for Halo 5, Forza, etc., but maybe they aren't emphasizing it as much as Sony will be.
Also - we haven't heard Scorpio in terms of "profiles" and the like the way Sony has, right? I would bet MS will release patches for Halo 5, Forza, etc., but maybe they aren't emphasizing it as much as Sony will be.
Katze mit Hut
Member
Yeah, most likely. You could see this gen, that we didn´t get 1080/60fps as a standart. Devs want to deliver eyecandy. Its the easiest way to sell games to the masses.
Also: 6 AMD-TFlops aren´t the same as Nvidia TFlops if you translate them into visual performance. AMD always has a way higher TFlop count but can´t perform like their Nvidia counterparts. So your 980ti should as of today outperform a AMD 6 Tflop-system. And keep in mind, that dx12 might on day allow your CPU´s iGPU to work side by side your GPU to even enchance your systems Flops. But comparing a PC even to a future Console 1,5 years away is unfair.
metareferential
Member
Interesting they speculate on 12gb ram for Scorpio.
Damn.
Damn.
No, you can't even see uncompressed pixels for they are so beautiful in their uncompressed form that they fall outside of the visible light range. That's. How. Beautiful. They. Are.
rokkerkory
Member
Yeah no less than 12GB for sure
Katze mit Hut
Member
If they aim for 4k they will need more. Especially since it is shared RAM.
pottymouth
Member
More like 9 TFs considering 980ti/TitanX perform slightly better than Fury X which I believe is 8.6TF
Nice summary. This business is just getting weird. I really wonder how will the consumers react to this constant tug of power between both companies. And then there are the developers. PS4K is one thing, it's just twice as powerful as the PS4, downporting games focused for PS4K it's probably not big a deal, but this Scorpio monster is four times as powerful as the Xbone. What are Scorpio games gonna look like on the Xbone? Like Call of Duty on the Wii? 
ethomaz
Banned
Yeap... I changed to over AMD 8TFs but I don't think there is a direct conversion between them.
It is not going to be jaguar/puma. Both fall way below the minimum spec for both Oculus and Vive. The Scorpio is going to support VR and MS is not making the head set so that leaves the Oculus and Vive. Also if was the Jaguar/puma it would be ready for launch this winter at the latest. I think we are looking at 4 core/8thread Zen.
Freeman
Banned
They can look crazy good at 720p, with tons of AA. Movies still look damn fine in 720p.
CyberPunked
Member
That's not the same at all. They're not filmed in 720p.
Movies are downsampled from real life and not native 720p.
This time maybe PS neo will have the power of the cloud to keep up with Ms, maybe that's why they haven't announced neo yet, it's not very cloudy out right now
A secret part of me wishes that some PS folk start with their secret sauce talk...
Just so I can enjoy the irony. Wait, what? Is this true? I'm interested in seeing what they look like. Got a link?
A secret part of me wishes that some PS folk start with their secret sauce talk...
You'll have to wait. We're currently in the "maybe they can overclock to close the gap" phase.
shinjimimura
Member
Will this have exclusive games (without Xbone version I mean)? If it will, I'll definetly buy. If not, maybe I'll just get a regular xbone when it's dirt cheap
Netherscourge
Banned
Not to dismiss what they're saying - but they would say that. They don't want to commit yet to a new console every 2-3 years as it would further devalue scorpio. They need to stick to the message about upgrading when the time is right and not going any further just yet.
A i7-5960k is about 768 GFlops, a 5930k should not be far behind.
https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/hpc/Linpack-performance-Haswell-E-Core-i7-5960X-and-5930K-594/
But you are correct that it is not the metric one would use for graphical performance.
Do they? The last time I checked, virtually every major Xbox "exclusive" is also coming to PC.