Mostly based on comments from Aonuma.
http://kotaku.com/fans-are-already-trying-to-place-breath-of-the-wild-on-1782089318
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Legend of Zelda - Breath of the Wild: Possible Timeline Convergence? What I know!
- Thread starter Feltrol
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Mostly based on comments from Aonuma.
http://kotaku.com/fans-are-already-trying-to-place-breath-of-the-wild-on-1782089318
Yeah but hmm those comments do seem extremely cryptic and can mean almost anything... let alone possible translation issues as is so often the case. All we know is he's been asleep for 100 years, there was a great battle after which Ganon was sealed in a castle, and both the Sheikah and Ocarina of Time are significant somehow.
Personal preferences:
It seems unlikely, but I hope this isn't another prequel to OoT. OoT is my favorite Zelda game but Nintendo needs to move away from it being this be all end all central piece of the series, from which everything is born and everything must return to.
It had a prequel (Skyward Sword), it had a direct sequel (Majora's Mask) and two games that showed the consequences of the time travel stuff (Wind Waker and Twlight Princess). Let it rest, it's time to start a new era and this game seems the right way to bring something fresh and do away with conventions.
At the same time, I don't want it to be a sequel to Wind Waker. I think the ending in Wind Waker is just perfect the way it is. Sure, you might have smaller sequels but the story of Hyrule, Ganondorf, the Master Sword etc is finished so neatly that I don't think there's anything more to add. Hyrule is the past, it's gone, move on.
It seems unlikely, but I hope this isn't another prequel to OoT. OoT is my favorite Zelda game but Nintendo needs to move away from it being this be all end all central piece of the series, from which everything is born and everything must return to.
It had a prequel (Skyward Sword), it had a direct sequel (Majora's Mask) and two games that showed the consequences of the time travel stuff (Wind Waker and Twlight Princess). Let it rest, it's time to start a new era and this game seems the right way to bring something fresh and do away with conventions.
At the same time, I don't want it to be a sequel to Wind Waker. I think the ending in Wind Waker is just perfect the way it is. Sure, you might have smaller sequels but the story of Hyrule, Ganondorf, the Master Sword etc is finished so neatly that I don't think there's anything more to add. Hyrule is the past, it's gone, move on.
Well it being a prequel to OoT seems very unlikely. Many seem to think it's the OoT sequel equivalent of TP and WW, but in the Fallen Hero timeline. Making a prequel to A Link to the Past.
I have to agree that my personal preference would be to put it after the Adventures of Link, the last game in the Fallen timeline. They definitely need to branch out a bit and start a new path and stop trying to fill in the gaps of the current timeline.
The more I think about it the more I would sort of like a convergence just to end the split timelines and reboot the series' whole continuity into something cohesive and clear but I doubt that would happen.
That or to take place after The Adventures of Link or something where it won't be beholden to anything afterwards.
That or to take place after The Adventures of Link or something where it won't be beholden to anything afterwards.
My theories on the Master Sword...
If it's The Wind Waker timeline, then it's likely it was somehow damaged when it went into Ganondorfs skull and has corroded over the years due to spending an excessive amount of time under water. If it's the Fallen Timeline and this is indeed the Hero of Time resurrected (the more likely possibility) then it could have been damaged in that battle or Link's death could have somehow cause it to lose its power. The sword is connect to the Hero after all, so it's survival may rely on the Hero's survival, too.
If it's The Wind Waker timeline, then it's likely it was somehow damaged when it went into Ganondorfs skull and has corroded over the years due to spending an excessive amount of time under water. If it's the Fallen Timeline and this is indeed the Hero of Time resurrected (the more likely possibility) then it could have been damaged in that battle or Link's death could have somehow cause it to lose its power. The sword is connect to the Hero after all, so it's survival may rely on the Hero's survival, too.
Fourth Storm
Member
I think that some time after OoT, Nintendo just decided to relocate the Temple of Time outside the Castle Town area. We see it in TP to the south of Hyrule Castle (as it is here in BotW) and this is the implied location according to Skyward Sword as well. Death Mountain is to the north of the castle as well, and what appears to be a desert area to the west. Lines up nicely to OoT's Hyrule once we accept the Temple of Time redaction.
It doesn't really make much of a difference anyway. As noted, geography is something that changes slightly w/ each telling of the story in this series.
Two things I have to say. People keep saying 100 years when referring to Wind Waker or Twilight Princess. These games take place centuries after OoT, 100 years is not that long, even considering medieval lifespans. Remember Spirit Tracks is only about 100 years after Phantom Hourglass, and one of the characters from PH is alive and an old man in ST. It's like 3 generations, tops, not nearly long enough for stories to develop into barely remembered legends.
Secondly, perhaps the Resurrection Towers and Cave of Resurrection aren't referring to Link's resurrection, but rather are a system put in place to resurrect Hyrule, and Link is a part of that system.
Secondly, perhaps the Resurrection Towers and Cave of Resurrection aren't referring to Link's resurrection, but rather are a system put in place to resurrect Hyrule, and Link is a part of that system.
What if they take a page from Anne McCaffery
Details for the above
's Dragonflight novel?
Details for the above
Where the dragon riders faced a period in which they were not needed, and time traveled to the future, making them seem like a dwindling faction for decades and then boom they are prospering again. So the sheikah could have done the same and that would possibly explain why we suddenly go from having only Impa to at least a sheikah hundred monks hiding in the land, and potentially finally let us see a village populated by sheikah .
I would have quoted zeldablue, but I was afraid the context would spoil Dragonflight
I would have quoted zeldablue, but I was afraid the context would spoil Dragonflight
Hmmm.
Reading that Kotaku interview, it says that Link is told it's been 100 years. So we don't necessarily know if it's actually been 100 years, but has Zelda ever done a bait and switch like that before?
What if it is after Wind Waker, but this is the Hero of Time rather than the Hero of Winds?
Hero Of Time pulls the Master Sword, something happens and he is put into stasis. Hyrule is flooded. Flash forward and Hero of Winds takes down Ganon, people leave to find a new land. Korok's do their thing, great sea dries up, Ganon free's his spirit or something, Hero of Time is awakened.
Problems:
-Assuming 100 years is correct, seems like a short time for all of Wind Waker + great sea drying up to happen
-Master Sword placement is strange...but then again it's always moving to wherever the story deems convenient.
Reading that Kotaku interview, it says that Link is told it's been 100 years. So we don't necessarily know if it's actually been 100 years, but has Zelda ever done a bait and switch like that before?
What if it is after Wind Waker, but this is the Hero of Time rather than the Hero of Winds?
Hero Of Time pulls the Master Sword, something happens and he is put into stasis. Hyrule is flooded. Flash forward and Hero of Winds takes down Ganon, people leave to find a new land. Korok's do their thing, great sea dries up, Ganon free's his spirit or something, Hero of Time is awakened.
Problems:
-Assuming 100 years is correct, seems like a short time for all of Wind Waker + great sea drying up to happen
-Master Sword placement is strange...but then again it's always moving to wherever the story deems convenient.
FantasticMrFoxdie
Mumber
Wow.
This would be amazing
Hope it is some sort of convergance. Then the moon face drops in
This would be amazing
Hope it is some sort of convergance. Then the moon face drops in
My personal theory right now is that this takes place many millennia after AoL and the Master Sword is in disrepair because you prevented Ganon's resurrection and no one has needed the Master Sword in so long that they all just forgot it even existed until suddenly Calamity Ganon.
The Sheikah technology everywhere is because, after Ganon was finally defeated for good, Hyrule recovered from its decline under the rule of Zelda and Zelda I (cause, um, there were two Zelda's now), and they somehow encouraged the Sheikah to share their tech with the rest of Hyrule bringing on an age of prosperity, and it was all going well until Ganon showed up. Suddenly they had to scramble to deal with him, and maybe Link failed because he didn't have the Master Sword, so they had to put him in a healing stasis while Zelda, and possibly some new sages, sealed Ganon within Hyrule Castle, until he was ready to try again.
The Sheikah technology everywhere is because, after Ganon was finally defeated for good, Hyrule recovered from its decline under the rule of Zelda and Zelda I (cause, um, there were two Zelda's now), and they somehow encouraged the Sheikah to share their tech with the rest of Hyrule bringing on an age of prosperity, and it was all going well until Ganon showed up. Suddenly they had to scramble to deal with him, and maybe Link failed because he didn't have the Master Sword, so they had to put him in a healing stasis while Zelda, and possibly some new sages, sealed Ganon within Hyrule Castle, until he was ready to try again.
Wait I just had a look at the timeline, how come "the tragedy of Zelda l" is just before the second last game in the fallen hero timeline? I always thought that all Zeldas were named Zelda after Zelda l, outside of Skyward Sword's Zelda who would be a close ancestor or even mother to princess Zelda l. I feel kind of bummed out by having the lore so wrong.
So I guess that means at some point before LoZ the monarchy was just reset for some reason, and that there probably have been other princesses of Hyrule before not named Zelda until the tragedy of Zelda l cemented the name as an even stronger tradition than before. I might be stretching it, but my world view is falling apart a bit over this discovery.
So I guess that means at some point before LoZ the monarchy was just reset for some reason, and that there probably have been other princesses of Hyrule before not named Zelda until the tragedy of Zelda l cemented the name as an even stronger tradition than before. I might be stretching it, but my world view is falling apart a bit over this discovery.
It's mentioned in one of the demo's cutscenes that Link's been asleep for 100 years. So it is correct.
decoyplatypus
Member
It would be pretty weird for the Hero of Time to come back as a righty. I mean, it was one thing to go right-handed in SS and the Wii version of TP, where Wii-motion controlled Link's sword. Is there a comparable gameplay advantage this time around to justify a retcon?
That's mainly due to what we've heard from Aonuma on the games, often resulting in mistranslations between "100 years" and "a few hundred years" however. Initially, it seemed like he said only 100 years, but later he says it's parallel to TP which is said to be a few hundred years. Also remember that in the Zelda games, 100 years is a long time. Long enough for landscapes to entirely change and history to become myth and legend.
I do believe that it's technically just a retcon since they placed Zelda I and II so far down the timeline. But in the sense of the games now, before those games, naming the Princesses Zelda was in fact just a tradition of the Hyrule family. When the Tragedy of Zelda I occurs, they make a law that actually requires it.
Would the amnesia play a part? I've heard stories of people waking up from comas with skills they never had before, perhaps this could be in the same vein?
Here's the official stance from Aonuma regarding Link being right-handed:
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/why-zelda-breath-of-the-wilds-link-is-right-handed/1100-6440870/
So it's just a design choice and if it is in fact a previously right-handed Link, well... maybe he slept on his arm wrong for the 100 years?
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Yeah, 100 years seems short. No big changes happen in that time. Sure, technology will evolve and stuff, but you won't get a country go into ruin that quickly, at least not from natural causes. And definitely not the whole WW thing. Something like Link having been asleep for 1000 years would be a lot more impactful, I feel. Imagine him waking up to a ruined world, everyone and everything he ever knew dead and crumbled. Ok, so he doesn't remember that, because clearly his stasis has caused amnesia, but there's an indication that he will start remembering stuff over time. And 1000 years having passed would just be cooler in that scenario.
But I guess the ruined state of the world is basically due to Calamity Ganon rather than just time? Or maybe it was already in ruins 100 years back.
Either way, I'm starting to lean more toward this being 100 (or perhaps a few hundred) years after the fallen hero ending of OoT. Just seems like it would fit better. Except for those damn Koroks.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Maybe that text, like those interview answers about the time between OoT and WW (which is apparently actually a vague "centuries" rather than just 100 years), has simply been mistranslated. Lol.
Time doesn't necessarily move or behave the same in the world of Zelda as it does in the real world.
Calamity Ganon wreaks absolute havoc on Hyrule, like, absolutely destroys it, before being trapped by Zelda or whomever else at Hyrule Castle. The Great Deku Tree somehow survives this onslaught and charges the Kokiri to go out and start rebuilding the land of Hyrule. It's possible that the Korok forms they take on are just that, forms, and not proper evolutions of the Kokiri. They take on that form in the WW timeline because of the flood, but more importantly, for the ability to fly with the help of Deku Leaves. Flying would probably be helpful in a ravaged land of Hyrule. (Bonus: Most of the trees are the same height because the Korok planted them at the same time?)
Either way, I still see this being in the Fallen Hero timeline. This game would pretty much give a solid reason for this timeline to exist since before Hyrule Historia, it was never really brought up.
Guys the game takes place in the empty space in OoT Kakariko Village's windmill. Isn't it obvious? That's why Link spends 100 years in there (and of course its OoT Link). The Shiekah Tablet gets given to him in the Child Timline after he finds Navy again. Thats what Navy was trying to tell him when she said that he should listen to her. She was trying to communicate that there was a very important vibration coming from the Windmall (thats why they added the stone of reckoning to ocarina of time it was gonna vibrate but they didnt have time to code ithe windmill section into the game limitations of N64 hardware).
But Aonuma told my uncle who works for nintendo that apparently its supposed to be a portal what was suppoed to go in the windmill and that's why he wakes up in the care chamber. Because its a portal so its like Narnia. So at the end of the day this game takes place before the timeline split DURING OCARINA of time.
SPOIELRS:
I won't say any more
~ugly
But Aonuma told my uncle who works for nintendo that apparently its supposed to be a portal what was suppoed to go in the windmill and that's why he wakes up in the care chamber. Because its a portal so its like Narnia. So at the end of the day this game takes place before the timeline split DURING OCARINA of time.
SPOIELRS:
In this game the mystery of the Rain song from the windmill man is explained in full details but I won't say more than that. Truth is my uncle hasn't told me but I know he knows. I could do some reconaissance for GAF if certain conditions are met.
I won't say any more
~ugly
(mat)
Member
Oh, that would be neat if it wasn't Zelda's voice we've been hearing, but Navi's. As much as people hated her back then, it would be nice to be reintroduced to our old friend if this does turn out to be the hero of time. That's not to say I want her to follow me around and shout "listen!" at me for the entirety of the game... It would just be cool to see an old friend.
decoyplatypus
Member
Even if amnesia were a plausible explanation (or just a gesture in the direction of an explanation) for the hero of time becoming right-handed, it would presumably stop making sense if/when Link recovers his memories.
That can't be the real explanation. The sword button has been on the right this whole time!
TheNormalMan
Member
My conspiracy theory is that the Zelda asleep in AoL is actually Princess Zelda from OoT and she was put to sleep just like Link is in BotW. Doesn't explain how she's awake and talking to Link in BotW, but we don't know if that's her anyway
See, that's what I've read, but I remember reading before Wind Waker came out that it was 1000 years after OoT, and in the opening of WW itself (at least in the original NA localization), it says it's been hundreds of years since the great flood, so I always thought that the 100 years meant that the great flood happened 100 years after OoT, but that WW took place centuries after that. I had never heard of anyone taking the idea of WW being 100 years after OoT seriously until this thread.
Lord_Byron28
Member
Yeah I have a similar theory. Although my guess is that OoT Zelda is asleep like SS Zelda and Hylia when sealing Demise away. I'm thinking if OoT Zelda is the same one in AoL, then they could also have another Zelda in this game as well that could help.My conspiracy theory is that the Zelda asleep in AoL is actually Princess Zelda from OoT and she was put to sleep just like Link is in BotW. Doesn't explain how she's awake and talking to Link in BotW, but we don't know if that's her anyway
brownfedora
Member
The twist is obvious. He's been sent back from the future.
Why is there suddenly all this advanced technology only a 100 years after OOT?
Why is there suddenly all this advanced technology only a 100 years after OOT?
Inquisitive_Ghost
Member
Don't see why not. It's not electricity and transistors and computer programming, it's magic tech. Powered by and defined by magic.
Dagobert Duck
Member
Go back a hundred years back, and what would you have?
RoadHazard
Gold Member
You're right, it flows 60x faster! So those 100 in-game years are just around 1.7 of our Earth years.
Galactic Fork
A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
Well, it would require Zelda in OoT to have a brother, but if the timeline happens because it never started the time loop (because Link failed to reach the temple of time), Ganondorf wouldn't have shown his hand and taken over the castle when he did. He'd have cozied up to the King and was the Wizard mentioned in the AoL story. Now, the King, knowing his son wasn't worthy of the whole triforce, removed the triforce courage and put it in the valley of death. So, after the King was dead (having told Zelda what he had done), and Prince only got part of the triforce, he tried to get Zelda to tell what she knew. She would refuse and Ganondorf would put her to sleep. Now the legend says he died, too, but eh, it could be he faked that since he knew the Prince wouldn't forgive him. In addition to sealing Zelda away, the prince could have seen what his desire for the complete triforce would have done, so locked the triforce of power away in the Golden Land. Ganondorf finds the triforce of power. And the imprisoning war happens just like it did in the LttP instructions. With 7 Hylean wise men instead of the 7 sages (since zelda couldn't perform her role).My conspiracy theory is that the Zelda asleep in AoL is actually Princess Zelda from OoT and she was put to sleep just like Link is in BotW. Doesn't explain how she's awake and talking to Link in BotW, but we don't know if that's her anyway
So this requires
A) Zelda to have had a brother in OOT.
B) The split to occur because Link failed before being sealed away for 7 years. Thus the original timeline without any time travel.
C) "the Wizard" to have faked his death and gone back to theivery.
See exactly! Haha, I didn't even think of that.
Additionally, it would require the timeline in Hyrule Historia to be wrong. (This is possible, but...)
The Tragedy of Princess Zelda I occurs after ALttP, the Oracle Games, and Link's Awakening. So for OoT Zelda to be the Zelda that falls asleep for many years, she'd have to still live through the Imprisoning War, ALttP, Oracle Games, Link's Awakening (those three games have the same Link), three eras, and then still have a brother and be put under a spell.
Yeah, no. I don't think this is likely.
After Link defeats Ganon, the Zelda in the future uses the Ocarina of Time to send Link back 7 years to his childhood.
LegendofLex
Member
You're thinking of what happened to his body during those seven years.
But it's his soul that was traveling through time, not his body. His body didn't simply disappear and then reappear in the future. It was kept in the Sacred Realm, where he aged while his body slept.
At the end of Ocarina of Time, though, it's clear that when Zelda sends him back in time, he disappears, body and soul. That's why the Hero of Time is completely absent in the TWW prologue.
At this point, they should just say this takes place in the "Fallen Hero" timeline and end the other two. It's time for a timeline reboot. The reason the Zelda timeline is so screwy because Nintendo doesn't really care about the "canon." Time for a clean break and a fresh start.
Plus the SNES/NES Zelda era story is the best, anyways
Why get rid of the split timeline when it allows them more freedom and versatility in their games? What if they decide they want to make a TP sequel in the future? Or explore New Hyrule?
Aonuma seems to particularly care about Zelda's canon and timeline, otherwise we wouldn't have the timeline in Hyrule Historia in the first place. Each game has its reason to exist in the Zelda timeline, its own story to tell. Nothing wrong with having a split timeline.
The split timeline is great, I don't know why people are so obsessed with the idea of just having one timeline to make it "clearer" or "less confusing", it's fine as is and allows them to have different takes on a similar formula.
I think TP and WW are both better for being direct sequels to OoT but with wildly different outcomes due to the events in OoT, as opposed to say TP being a direct sequel to OoT and then WW happening 1000s of years after that and Ganondorf just being another reincarnation.
I think TP and WW are both better for being direct sequels to OoT but with wildly different outcomes due to the events in OoT, as opposed to say TP being a direct sequel to OoT and then WW happening 1000s of years after that and Ganondorf just being another reincarnation.
This timeline talk makes me want to go and play all of the games but that's probably a fools errand at this point. I've only played wind Waker, oot, and a bit of lttp.
If one wanted to do this, release order or timeline order? I'll probably never do this but damn I kind of want to. I feel like I've been missing out.
If one wanted to do this, release order or timeline order? I'll probably never do this but damn I kind of want to. I feel like I've been missing out.
Release order.
Pokemaniac
Member
The order doesn't really matter all that much. The thing I'd recommend though, is that, generally speaking, the games which feature the same Link should be played in chronological order, since those are usually fairly direct sequels.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
I've never heard of anyone playing the Zelda in chronological order.
One of my bigger gaming shames that's for sure. Just a series I never got to really.
It was just a thought since there is an actual order to some of them.
It was just a thought since there is an actual order to some of them.
Fourth Storm
Member
Speaking of which, it would be nice if Nintendo found a way to allow us to enjoy Four Swords Adventures. I've heard it was great, but the requirements to play are just completely ridiculous. We've never gotten a rerelease of this supposedly excellent game.
Trivia: FSA was originally meant to center around the Imprisoning War and there is still text buried within the ROM which reveals this dropped storyline.
Trivia: FSA was originally meant to center around the Imprisoning War and there is still text buried within the ROM which reveals this dropped storyline.
(mat)
Member
Wasn't it available for free on 3DS for a bit?
Order doesn't matter one bit. The Zelda games are self-contained enough that you can jump into just about any game and play them in any order. ALttP and OoT are good starting points, since they are the most heavily referenced, but otherwise you are good.
If you wanted to follow a specific order, I would recommend against timeline chronological order, since it might result in deceptive expectations. For a good chunk of the Zelda games, fans had absolutely no idea where they were placed in the timeline until very recently. The timeline connections tend to be very weak. Release order is better in that regard, since it lets you see how the recurring elements of the franchise evolved over the years, which is much more significant.
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