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A polite discourse amongst friends on the importance of MP-elements in No Man's Sky

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The ethics part was not irrelevant, it just was quickly drowned by the misogyny and hate. But more importantly, TB was involved in the former part.

Anyway, good to hear he is doing better. I do not always agree with him but he is one of the good ones and an important voice for the industry.

TB was also involved in the latter and worked very hard to push it under the rug despite claims of neutrality. For a guy who claims to care about ethics, he is both hypocritical and unethical. The industry deserves better than the likes of him.

And yes, the ethics part was always irrelevant. GamerGate didn't start as an ethical movement that suddenly turned bad; ethics was always the excuse for a harassment campaign, and useful idiots like TB fell for it.
 

dity

Member
The ethics part was not irrelevant, it just was quickly drowned by the misogyny and hate. But more importantly, TB was involved in the former part.

Anyway, good to hear he is doing better. I do not always agree with him but he is one of the good ones and an important voice for the industry.
Some of you really drank the koolaid.
 
CpiIYiOWAAAn4_9.jpg

HAHAHAHA

Why did it have to come down to this?
Developers will never learn. Stop announcing features you can't be 100% sure you can implement.
 

Sevenfold

Member
If I refund the game on Steam, will anything I've named remain?

Edit:
Oooh just thought how that could be abused, I was only thinking it'd be weird naming a species in a game I may hate and it being there for the lifetime of the game.
 

Klyka

Banned
If I refund the game on Steam, will anything I've named remain?

Edit:
Oooh just thought how that could be abused, I was only thinking it'd be weird naming a species in a game I may hate and it being there for the lifetime of the game.

Yes of course, it'll all be in there.
You owning a copy has nothing to do with what you named.
 

DrArchon

Member
HAHAHAHA

Why did it have to come down to this?
Developers will never learn. Stop announcing features you can't be 100% sure you can implement.

Shit happens during development. Not having announced features is annoying but understandable.

The real issue is the fact that they apparently couldn't get this feature in and instead of coming out before launch and saying they couldn't get it in, they just stayed silent and hoped that no one would figure it out.
 
Some of you really drank the koolaid.

As I said, for a few days people were calling out the media because some of the things that were found (like some devs having close relationships with the ones writing about them in gaming media); That chat between Totilo and TB is almost exclusively about that. Yes, the hate campaign was happening at the same time too and quickly became obvious we couldn't keep talking about ethics in game journalism without poisoning the discussion due to the hate campaign towards women. But to say, "hey this guy is part of Gamergate and therefore his criticism about the game I like doesn't count" as if that solves the issues some people have with this game is kind of irrelevant in this discussion.
 

AntChum

Member
TB was also involved in the latter and worked very hard to push it under the rug despite claims of neutrality. For a guy who claims to care about ethics, he is both hypocritical and unethical. The industry deserves better than the likes of him.
It amazing how quickly people have forgotten some of the shitty stuff he said when GG was in full flow a couple years back. I don't think I could ever forget TB dismissing the death threats Anita Sarkeesian received, because 'frankly, she's still breathing'; it's one of the stupidest things I've ever read.
And yes, the ethics part was always irrelevant. GamerGate didn't start as an ethical movement that suddenly turned bad; ethics was always the excuse for a harassment campaign, and useful idiots like TB fell for it.
Yep, #GamerGate was coined by Adam Baldwin, a right wing lunatic who also happens to act; it was only ever about pushing back against progressivism in video games. Some people did get suckered by long-winded YouTube videos — me included! — and they're idiots for allowing themselves to be manipulated in such a way.
 

Gbraga

Member
I reach the center of the universe. It's bright here. Very bright. "Is this a star?" I ask myself. No, that's impossible. Quite literally in this game. Also, why would I want to be on a star? I'd burn up.

Anyway, I get out of my ship.

I spot a twinkle on the horizon and walk towards it. I see someone walking towards me at the same speed.

This is it! This is the moment. The surprise at the center of the universe is another player!? I've found a friend! He was telling the truth this whole time!

As I reach the figure, my mouth falls open in shock. This is not another player, Im just looking into a mirror.

But I know this person.
It's Sean Murray.
His shit-eating grin plastered on my own face.

We are the liars. We've been the liars this whole time.

I swallow deeply and slowly tilt the camera down. I fear what I expect to see. I pan down the body of this fraud to reveal:

Beard...

Flannel shirt...

Jeans...

Barefoot.

I drop the controller.

"I can't do this anymore, Sean. I'm sorry. There aren't any sharks eating birds, by the way."

lmao
 
It's many big skyboxes, each with several planets in it and one image of the sun on the side which you can never reach. It's no seamless space. Manual travel between solar systems is not possible. Need to load/warp from a menu.


No he didn't. Not at all. Those tweets were completely independent. That's just what some interpreted into them.

One universe, many galaxies linked by a "hyperwarp" method located at the center of each galaxy. Each galaxy has many solar systems that can be warped to and from each other from a menu, but each solar system is just planets, moons, and asteroids surrounded by a skybox at infinity, where a sun is painted at one end, but is not reachable. There is gravity on each planet, but the gravity at each planet is the same, which is odd. No heavy or bouncy planet gravity, which could have been really nice, and incredibly easy to implement. You cannot throw your ship in orbit. If you don't keep your thrusters on, you stop, so you can't maintain a high speed without burning fuel. This game is more exploration than space simulation.

Ah, thanks for that. Well, I'll pass then. I was under the assumption this was one big galaxy you could move freely in and that you could visit the stars, etc. As the game stands it's much less interesting to me now.
 

Sevenfold

Member
Yes of course, it'll all be in there.
You owning a copy has nothing to do with what you named.

I'm so conflicted.
This staggered release has been a God send and has really tempered my expectations, and more than anything, the ceilings and auto docking and arcade controls in space (I wasn't expecting to plug my (cheap ass) hotas in but the transition from space to land was what tickled my balls in the trailer/hype) and the already discovered starter planets have almost killed NMS for me. Deflated in a couple of days after so much build up, bit of a gut punch, so I understand the disdain and radio silence smacks of Simcity and is instant shields up for a lot of potential customers, damn don't these people spend any time online?
So blind hope and a bit of something I can't explain that makes me desperate to try it, and the RPS PS4 impressions haven't helped. It's quite fascinating as far as a video game release goes and I'm sure it will be talked about for years.
 

Klyka

Banned
I'm so conflicted.
This staggered release has been a God send and has really tempered my expectations, and more than anything, the ceilings and auto docking and arcade controls in space (I wasn't expecting to plug my (cheap ass) hotas in but the transition from space to land was what tickled my balls in the trailer/hype) and the already discovered starter planets have almost killed NMS for me. Deflated in a couple of days after so much build up, bit of a gut punch, so I understand the disdain and radio silence smacks of Simcity and is instant shields up for a lot of potential customers, damn don't these people spend any time online?
So blind hope and a bit of something I can't explain that makes me desperate to try it, and the RPS PS4 impressions haven't helped. It's quite fascinating as far as a video game release goes and I'm sure it will be talked about for years.

The PC version won't have anything discovered today, cause the PS4 and PC verson are seperate.
 

SomTervo

Member
But the game doesn't have true "regions", every system is boxed off, you can't roam freely in space.

People really have no idea what they're talking about.

The entire galaxy is one huge region, full of billions of star systems, which are each regions.

You can travel between each and every star systems freely. With hyperdrive - yes, there is technically no 'space' in-between each star system - but you can travel to each and every system in the sky. Players move from dot-to-dot through the galaxy, each dot being one of billions of star systems.

So the center of the galaxy is point, say coordinates [0, 0, 0] for the universe. Everybody starts at some a coordinate (for instance) like [23382957,43243,78929298], but by the time you're nearer the center, the coords will be more like (again for instance) [1732,200,89742].

Basically all the numbers will get closer to 0 as you get closer to center. Imagine thousands of players near the center - there's a high chance they'll reacht the same 'dots' because there are fewer 'dots' immediately around the center of the galaxy. There's less space between everyone.

Wait, can you walk all the way around planets or not?

Yeah, I would really love an answer to this!

Yes. Obviously. Anything really big like that that they promised is in the game, contrary to the noises people are making ITT.

I've flown all the way around a planet (it took ages and I had to leave atmo to get more speed) but I could have easily parked my ship, climbed out and just walked.
 
So each Solar System is "independent" of the other?

They could've made lobbies out of that I guess.

If people where in the same Solar System, than they would be in the same instance.

Or something.
 

King_Moc

Banned
So each Solar System is "independent" of the other?

They could've made lobbies out of that I guess.

If people where in the same Solar System, than they would be in the same instance.

Or something.

That's the only way i think it's work, with it only created the same instance when two players register as being in the same system.

As for flying between starts without hyperspace (which is what i think people are getting at?), it would take light from our sun 6 years to get to the closest star, and the pulse drive is slower than that.

Not sure if this was the thread where people wondered if big creatures were in, but somebody found some darn big creatures:

https://youtu.be/6wJNThkdetI?t=4372

They reeeealllly need to sort out the temperatures. That makes no sense, lol.
 
I just can't reconcile taking "we want people to have a sense of that" (others playing in the same universe) with anyone expecting that to mean "We can play together". To me, that's a huge leap.

I've followed the game since its announcement, and I never at all had the expectation that we'd be playing together like people play together in an MMO (i.e., being in the same place, same instance, and either interacting or exploring or whatever together), and have been continually baffled by people expecting that kind of gameplay.

I totally agree at this point that clarification is important, but I really do feel like most of the things Sean Murray has directly said himself (rather than clumsily agreeing with something an interviewer said, which he does seem to have a problem with) have indicated clearly what the "multiplayer" component of this game *isn't*, even if he's been bad at/unwilling to explain what it *is*.

Sorry, I was also unclear. I didn't mean in the sense of co-op. I meant in the sense of seeing other players like you mentioned you do in Journey and Dark Souls - synchronously, but with no real communication and not necessarily working or traveling together. I fully agree that it is clear that there is no traditional co-op element. What I think isn't clear is, as your last point alludes to, whether you can have any synchronous encounters with other players at all.
 
D

Deleted member 10571

Unconfirmed Member
Yes. Obviously. Anything really big like that that they promised is in the game, contrary to the noises people are making ITT.

big like all the stars and suns being mere skyboxes you can't actually fly to?
big like all the systems being small systems of a few planets that don'T really interconnect physically like promised?
big like all the stuff about real time orbits are apparently (?) bull?
Or big like no sandworms, no huge dinosaurs, and lots of other animals from screenshots not yet documented at all?
And yes, the option of meeting people is fucking big too.

IDK if any of this "hides" in parts of the game nobody saw yet, but personally I think it's highly unlikely it does. As a huge supporter of the game for the last years I think it's super offensive and demeaning to call the criticism about legit points "noise people make".
 

Seiniyta

Member
That's the only way i think it's work, with it only created the same instance when two players register as being in the same system.

As for flying between starts without hyperspace (which is what i think people are getting at?), it would take light from our sun 6 years to get to the closest star, and the pulse drive is slower than that.



They reeeealllly need to sort out the temperatures. That makes no sense, lol.

on PC you KNOW there is going to be a mod called "RealTemperatures" or something :p
 
If you buy a game based on anything but the content explicitly present, I don't know what to tell you.
I'm not buying the game for multiplayer myself, but I can understand the disappointment.

You can't blame people for expecting a feature in the game that the developer talked about multiple times and has been vague about around release and even after release now. That is not on the buyer, that is on the seller. It's just misleading, nothing less.
 
I'm not buying the game for multiplayer myself, but I can understand the disappointment.

You can't blame people for expecting a feature in the game that the developer talked about multiple times and has been vague about around release and even after release now. That is not on the buyer, that is on the seller. It's just misleading, nothing else.

I can blame them, absolutely. If you're uncertain at all, you should not buy a game until you know what's in it. It's really that simple.

If you pre-order and/or buy games sight unseen, that's on you. I do it myself constantly, and I don't blame anyone but myself when I get a game that doesn't turn out to be what I thought/hoped it would be because I was too impatient to wait and see what reviews said of the finished product.
 
I can blame them, absolutely. If you're uncertain at all, you should not buy a game until you know what's in it. It's really that simple.

If you pre-order and/or buy games sight unseen, that's on you. I do it myself constantly, and I don't blame anyone but myself when I get a game that doesn't turn out to be what I thought/hoped it would be because I was too impatient to wait and see what reviews said of the finished product.
So we should now ignore all comments made by developers before a game is released and just be OK when the game is missing features talked about multiple times over the years, including just before release? That is just strange.
 
I feel like the players not seeing each other is by design.

My theory is that players not only begin at a randomized position or space in the universe, but they also begin at a randomized time in the universe. Building off that theory, as you get closer to the center of the universe, this dynamic is revealed.
 
So we should now ignore all comments made by developers before a game is released and just be OK when the game is missing features talked about multiple times over the years, including just before release? That is just strange.

I'm not saying "ignore all comments". I'm saying that if you're being a conscientious consumer, you wouldn't give someone money for a product until you're certain of what it is.

But it seems like people are selectively ignoring newer comments in favor of older ones. All of the most recent things that Sean Murray has said point to any MP being a minor feature at best, whatever it is.

If the developers outright lied about their product in advance of its release, that's a problem, but it's also a separate issue from whether you should buy a game based on prelease talk versus the finished product, reviewed by (hopefully) professionals who take their jobs seriously.
 

gtabmx

Neo Member
I feel like the players not seeing each other is by design.

My theory is that players not only begin at a randomized position or space in the universe, but they also begin at a randomized time in the universe. Building off that theory, I feel like as you get closer to the center of the universe, this dynamic is revealed.

When you go to the second galaxy, its indicated that that galaxy is in the Hibert dimension. If they took time dilation and dimensions into account in this game (even inaccurately), and that fits into how players can see each other, all would be forgiven.
 
I'm not saying "ignore all comments". I'm saying that if you're being a conscientious consumer, you wouldn't give someone money for a product until you're certain of what it is.

But it seems like people are selectively ignoring newer comments in favor of older ones. All of the most recent things that Sean Murray has said point to any MP being a minor feature at best, whatever it is.

If the developers outright lied about their product in advance of its release, that's a problem, but it's also a separate issue from whether you should buy a game based on prelease talk versus the finished product, reviewed by (hopefully) professionals who take their jobs seriously.
Even the recent things he said aren't clear, and that is the problem. If it is there, but he doesn't want to spoil it, he can say so. If it isn't there, he can also just say so. I don't know if I'd call it lying, but it is certainly misleading I think.

I get things change during development, and that sometimes things don't make it to the final product. I get graphics are downgraded. But actual game features seemingly not being there and refusing to clear up if that is true or not is a new one to me.
 
HAHAHAHA

Why did it have to come down to this?
Developers will never learn. Stop announcing features you can't be 100% sure you can implement.

the problem is they are creative people and creative people like to dream big. it's how you even get concepts like NMS in the first place.

we live in an era of unprecedented access. these creative people now have a public outlet to test their ideas, to air their curiosities, to make the act of creating into a more public experience.

and yet you want this to end? to make it so everything announced is first run through the budget, passed off to the lawyers, and doled out in the legal definitions perfectly-worded PR person.

what you want is impossible, thank god, because it would be a horrible world with no transparency and a million more gatekeepers that all have an allegiance towards legal liability rather than game making.

hilarious people want creatives to DREAM BIG and yet get EXTREMELY MAD when those dreams fall short. you can't have one without the other and yet some people convince themselves that absurdity is possible.
 

Griss

Member
I'm not saying "ignore all comments". I'm saying that if you're being a conscientious consumer, you wouldn't give someone money for a product until you're certain of what it is.

But it seems like people are selectively ignoring newer comments in favor of older ones. All of the most recent things that Sean Murray has said point to any MP being a minor feature at best, whatever it is.

If the developers outright lied about their product in advance of its release, that's a problem, but it's also a separate issue from whether you should buy a game based on prelease talk versus the finished product, reviewed by (hopefully) professionals who take their jobs seriously.

I bought the game two days after release - didn't preorder - after initial reviews were already out, and it was still impossible to know if that feature was supposed to be there or not. That's pretty outrageous. And this is when the main developer has been tweeting nonstop for a month until this one specific question is raised and then radio silence rather than informing his potential consumers. Obviously I was informed and decided I was okay either way, but I can 100% see how other people could be misinformed, confused or misled.

And there's a reason we have laws against inducing people into a contract via misleading representations. People are entitled to trust the words of the person selling them something. That's a pretty basic premise.
 
the problem is they are creative people and creative people like to dream big. it's how you even get concepts like NMS in the first place.

we live in an era of unprecedented access. these creative people now have a public outlet to test their ideas, to air their curiosities, to make the act of creating into a more public experience.

and yet you want this to end? to make it so everything announced is first run through the budget, passed off to the lawyers, and doled out in the legal definitions perfectly-worded PR person.

what you want is impossible, thank god, because it would be a horrible world with no transparency and a million more gatekeepers that all have an allegiance towards legal liability rather than game making.

hilarious people want creatives to DREAM BIG and yet get EXTREMELY MAD when those dreams fall short. you can't have one without the other and yet some people convince themselves that absurdity is possible.

You think that what we are getting now is transparency?...
 
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