Jonneh3003
Banned
I wonder what lag feels like in VR
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Digital Foundry: Hands-on with DriveClub VR
- Thread starter cyberheater
- Start date
I wonder what lag feels like in VR
I think DC VR is basically DC remade as a true VR game, whereas the PC games are really just games retrofitted with VR. Its a subtle difference but I think thats why.
I dont think the df guys are hardcore racing fans, because they failed to mention VR racing's biggest challenge right now (all current HMDs); Not being able to look ahead properly due to lack of resolution at a distance. It can be rather frustrating to unlearn basic driving techniques.
So when you guys get to play this you'll finally understand why some of us think VR racing is both utterly fantastic fun and complete shit, and at the same time.
So when you guys get to play this you'll finally understand why some of us think VR racing is both utterly fantastic fun and complete shit, and at the same time.
Oppo
Member
certainly not the experience the guy in the OP video had.
cyberheater
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Did you not read the article in the OP or watch the Vid?
ethomaz
Banned
Frozone
Member
Why not? The resolution for VR is not even 4k. If anything, there isn't enough money to be made making a game with such detail only to be run on high end Titan X/1080s. Pretty much every game on console can be run on a PC at VR res @ 95Hz.
fastest finger
Member
You can't blame people for challenging what feels to be relentless pessimism. Some of the criticisms are ridiculous. Some people need to appreciate it's a $400 mass market VR headset, not a fucking Holodeck.
PSVR isn't perfect, but it is a remarkable achievement.
Because you have to render the world twice plus have the utmost minimum lag possible in your rendering, so now you've essentially halved your throughput budget and your time-to-frame budget is also slashed.
Now, I'm not saying the graphics are not acceptable, and will be fine for 90% of people, but looking at these games in detail will make it pretty obvious.
Oppo
Member
it's not quite as straightforward as that. there are efficiencies in rendering that can be had - for instance assets obviously will be shared between the two viewpoints, seeing as they are only eye-width (or slightly higher) apart at any time. and both targets add up to a single 1080p frame in rez.if they can hit 60 then the PSVR box reproduces to 120, it's demanding but not crazy town, not "twice as hard" directly.
Wtf?
N30RYU
Member
yeah... it had no turtle shells nor other shits
VanCityGamer
Member
I disagree, sadly. I thought the poor image quality and very basic graphics of the Heist were quite distracting. I also didn't think it was much fun and felt the shooting was terrible.
I don't understand what you're referring to..
lowhighkang_LHK
Member
I know right? PSVR doing well is the best thing for the tech. Affordable, quality option ready for 50 million people.
This and the positive Tomb Raider PSVR impressions are good to see.
Yeah I've watched a few videos where sim-racers weigh up the pros and cons:in the videos I've watched VR has nudged it even ahead of three screen setups, but again it's a compromise; and we all have slightly different requirements and experiences, so what works for one may not for another.
Jonneh3003
Banned
The video in the article that OP posted
I don't think Driveclub is a simple retrofit. I mean, I'm sure they're reusing assets, etc but it had a lot of work put into it. Enough that they are selling it stand-alone, and not as DLC for the original game.
Both Project Cars and Dirt Rally had VR support patched in for free. Project Cars suffers from poor performance and scale issues. Dirt Rally fares a lot better, but is not without issues of its own. The in game wheel does not sync up correctly with many wheel controllers. It also defaults to a setting that soft locks your view to the horizon,which you can thankfully turn off. I have not tried Assetto Corsa, Live For Speed, or iRacing to make any comparison. But none of these games had VR support added as anything more than an afterthought.
Don't get me wrong, Dirt Rally VR is a fantastic experience,and probably my favorite VR game so far. But it's not too surprising to see a game with more dedicated dev resources put out a more polished VR experience.
I was thinking it wouldn't be allowed since you aren't allowed to add features not in the original ps4 version, but since they are in the original non-vr version, that might be allowed I hope.
Nope. I noted that in the last episode. Was at Gamescom all week so I didn't have time.
Ah shit, I somehow missed that (or blocked it out because I didn't want to hear it haha). And of course, makes sense. Thanks!
many of people here did not read the DF article or YT video of people saying it looks and feels great... they keep repeating old mantra how VR games look a lot worse.
The positive impressions are making you angry? Why?
Spiral Insanity
Banned
Yeah, I actually was most blown away by how well async time warp actually works at 60fps. It feels very much like it's running at a higher frame-rate overall.
It was really just an incredible experience that I didn't expect to be that good.
Would you personally say that Driveclub VR sells the concept of 60fps artifical repreojection for the most part? That would solve a lot of the issues related to having to render at framerates far higher than consoles can handle
eyeball_kid
Member
We see again and again in the tech industry that when as much effort is put into the human-tech interface and experience as is put into the hardware itself, a product with less advanced hardware can match or beat the experience of competing products. UX and art direction really do matter.
I think I'm going to keep my PSVR preorder based on all the positive reports, as I really like vanilla DriveClub. I'm curious though how DC VR will feel with just a DS4 and not a wheel.
I think I'm going to keep my PSVR preorder based on all the positive reports, as I really like vanilla DriveClub. I'm curious though how DC VR will feel with just a DS4 and not a wheel.
It does.
The only time you notice the effect breaking is when looking out of the side window at full speed. It's not so much that it looks bad, per se, but you can see a double image effect. That sounds way worse than it is, though, and weirdly has zero impact on head movement as it doesn't impact the image as a whole. Hard to explain but the overall sensation was 95% of what I'd expect at a native higher refresh. More than adequate.
If the enormous lag was present for the VR viewer, everybody would be puking, and nobody would be talking how immersive DriveClub VR is.
Read the whole thread, im not angry moreso others getting crazy becoz i expressed an opinion that no weather and 8 cars was a change i felt unhappy with. That is all.
Posting opinions on a public forum whoa people lets make sure we understand this concept ok? Before we get our knickers in a twist..
/peace
Just a note, reprojection != async time warp. The former is used by Vive and PSVR, but the latter is only on the Rift and Gear VR. The purpose is the same, but the implementation is a bit different.
I was just trying to find out what he was referring to in my post, because his post doesn't correlate with what I was trying to describe.
Let me try again; To sit inside a car in VR feels very natural and totally awesome. However, what low distance resolution does when you actually drive is to force your eyes away (because distance is muddy from low res) from the natural "looking ahead" point (a basic driving technique that everyone should know) and further angled down on the road and closer to the car. And this leads to what was my core point; that interestingly enough this makes VR racing utterly awesome and utterly disappointing at the same time.
HMDs with eyetracking and foveated rendering can't come soon enough.
When used as pure framerate doubling there's not much difference to the user. Same advantages and disadvantages in framerate and image quality (of course 90Hz on the Vive and Rift makes it different in itself)
Edit: To clarify: Reprojection and Timewarp is the same, but doing it async (like the PS4) is the difference. The disadvantage of this with the Vive is that the framerate doubles 45 to 90 when below 90 native (async is coming says the rumors). I usually turn reprojection off as an incentive to make everything run at native because I don't like the ghosting artifacts on the trackside objects (and on the other cars)
cyberheater
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That sounds great. Sony look like they have really nailed great VR straight out of the gate.
Saying it this way is like saying "if you cap the FPS of a flat screen PC game at 60 there is no difference to the user between using a g-sync monitor and simply using vsync on a traditional monitor." What you say is true, but the advantage of async time warp is that you aren't forced to halve the rendering Hz from that of the display.
cyberheater
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Yes. bj00rn_ knows the difference. He knows the tech.
Bear Force One
Banned
Twenty7KVN
Member
I agree with this %100 i demoed psvr for the first time yesterday at best buy,and I played eve valkryie and although the graphics looked like shit i had a fucking blast,I was ready to buy a HTC vive when I was done. Vr is a game changer and has rocketed back up to the top of my mustv have gadget list,go to start saving to get one.
For a technical breakdown, the descriptions seems to keep dipping into colorful, subjective descriptions.
I'm not getting swept up in the hype. This may be a title that convinces me to take the PSVR leap but they have to pull it off right. I'd rather try it for myself because quotes like
make me wonder if that is supposed to be a good thing in a game like this. I'd argue that the lack of detail is pretty crucial when you are speeding along at 90 MPH trying to distinguish between things on a curve several hundred feet up ahead that you have to start preparing for now before you actually get there.
And what is this this quote even trying to tell me or anyone who has little context of what this technical mumbo jumbo means in terms of real world performance?
With my hands on time with the PSVR, I find the SDE pretty pronounced in certain games (The Heist, certain elements of Eve Valkyrie) and after spending some time with the Gear VR using an s7 Edge, it's diamond sub-pixel layout actually made more of an effect than the PSVR's RGB layout to minimize that effect to me, but I find the resolution to be a much bigger determining factor of how bad the SDE can appear. That quote almost sounds like it's trying to justify how the image actually looks better to them on the PSVR despite having a lower resolution, without coming out and trying to claim that.
I do believe that PSVR can achieve better results than what has been produced for the more advanced Vive and Occulus on the software/game side that can make the experience more polished and feeling better, especially with the amount of money and the caliber of developers that will be coming to the PS4/PSVR. Publishers/developers have a reputation to uphold and IPs that they want VR to provide more revenue for them going forward, so I think the experiences have a lot of potential on the PS4 that they won't have on PC in the short term future. That being said, they still have to show and prove that is the case and they have even more hurdles and limitations to work around on the platform and the hardware, so I know I'm still very skeptical about what the experience will be.
I'm not getting swept up in the hype. This may be a title that convinces me to take the PSVR leap but they have to pull it off right. I'd rather try it for myself because quotes like
make me wonder if that is supposed to be a good thing in a game like this. I'd argue that the lack of detail is pretty crucial when you are speeding along at 90 MPH trying to distinguish between things on a curve several hundred feet up ahead that you have to start preparing for now before you actually get there.
And what is this this quote even trying to tell me or anyone who has little context of what this technical mumbo jumbo means in terms of real world performance?
With my hands on time with the PSVR, I find the SDE pretty pronounced in certain games (The Heist, certain elements of Eve Valkyrie) and after spending some time with the Gear VR using an s7 Edge, it's diamond sub-pixel layout actually made more of an effect than the PSVR's RGB layout to minimize that effect to me, but I find the resolution to be a much bigger determining factor of how bad the SDE can appear. That quote almost sounds like it's trying to justify how the image actually looks better to them on the PSVR despite having a lower resolution, without coming out and trying to claim that.
I do believe that PSVR can achieve better results than what has been produced for the more advanced Vive and Occulus on the software/game side that can make the experience more polished and feeling better, especially with the amount of money and the caliber of developers that will be coming to the PS4/PSVR. Publishers/developers have a reputation to uphold and IPs that they want VR to provide more revenue for them going forward, so I think the experiences have a lot of potential on the PS4 that they won't have on PC in the short term future. That being said, they still have to show and prove that is the case and they have even more hurdles and limitations to work around on the platform and the hardware, so I know I'm still very skeptical about what the experience will be.
gamingPotato7
Member
Its absolutely incredible what they managed to achieve here. And it definitely sold me on PSVR, both this article and that amazing video from Playstation Access. What a time to be alive!
Ah, I've been using the two interchangeably without actually looking into the differences. Thanks for the heads up!
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