GamingOblivion
Banned
Because it isn't that simple?
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Nintendo DMCAs Project AM2R and 562 smaller fangames
- Thread starter C.Olimar788
- Start date
Because it isn't that simple?
Another Metroid 2 Remake is NOT a damn rom hack. Outside of using the sprites for Zero Missions Samus, the game has almost completely original assets and art work. The core of the game has based around the original Metroid 2 with level design from the original being used often but original content was added into the game that adds a significant amount of game time to the original release of Metroid 2.
Mechanics and elements form Zero Mission & Super Metroid also are used in AM2R but inside the developers own engine, NOT one Nintendo made.
You are right, Nintendo has the right to defend their IP and if people use it, they have to shut it down. But there are other options and Nintendo could have taken them. I'm not upset about the game being offline, as the developer isn't upset the game was taken down, so why should I be?
But the thing I'm really fucking annoyed about if how so many people here are discrediting the great work fans produce using owned IP. The Sonic community is famous for this and some of my favorite Sonic games (Before & After the Sequel) are FAN GAMES. Yet they stand tall next to the Genesis games to me.
Sonic Chrono Adventure is another great case, as it uses assets/music from other games but its core gameplay is an inventive take on Sonic gameplay (Metroidvannia Sonic).
I was going to talk about fan games with Retrospectives for the Sonic side of the series, but with how many people here dislike fan productions, why bother putting them here? When I get around to them, they won't be posted on Gaf.
I swear, this year really showed me how toxic his forum is.......see you all later.
Aaaaannnnd you have no idea how copyright law works lol
You don't have to sell anything either
I know it's not a ROM I said "ROM or whatever" cuz im not familiar with the file type
I know it's not a rom hack. Dude I like fan games and hacks, I played blazeblack and am looking into neo xy. I'm arguing about facts. You can't go around advertising this stuff and then get mad when it gets taken down. It's simple. And good, don't create threads on NeoGAF, a prominent gaming site, where we know executives from major companies keep an eye out, about illegal fan games and hacks, cuz they'll get taken down.
Seems they know perfectly well how copyright law works. You using that avatar is 100% copyright infrigement.
Gotdatmoney
Member
If you have no intention on doing a remake obviously. Nintendo going full Metroid Remake seems unlikely doesn't it?
I think Kyzer just doesn't want anyone to be upset with Nintendo, so he has to turn it around on the fan devs. "The fandevs are the real bad guys here not Ninty, Copyright law is clear guys!"
He's continuously saying these things despite the fact that everyone knows that A) copyright law is a thing, B) Nintendo is within its legal rights to issue C&Ds and that C) none of that is mutually exclusive with being disappointed with Nintendo's decision to proceed with said DMCAs and C&Ds
RealityCheque
Banned
Azure Dream
Member
Actually, I think you're the one who doesn't understand it, especially if you're pretending Fair Use doesn't exist, as you seem to be. So yes, you are in the wrong technically. You are using Nintendo and TPC assets without authorization. End of story.
You just made my point. "lol"
"file type". To use your own words, "Aaaaannnnd you have no idea how game development works lol"
Tye The Czar
Member
This is you guys talking about the legality of A2MR
Lets pretend nothing ive said makes sense and that no one has denied the illegality of A2MR.
Lets pretend ive said fan games and devs are bad guys.
Lalalalalala corporate cheerleader fanboylalala
OK guys. A2MR isnt a problem, cuz look at our avatars! That's not fair use either!
OK.
People just disappointed , obviously im not arguing with you. Of course it's disappointing. Im legit smh at the guy who made the thread and Kotaku making stories about fan games. Ive made some simple points I dont see why you would take it so personally unless somehow you were in your feelings about the game getting taken down but surely such a thing is impossible
Keep coming at me tho
I'm a fanboy for NOT getting unreasonably emotional about something that makes total sense . There are people putting emotions to Nintendo as an entity like it's a human, had intentions, has some sort of spite, but im the one whos just blinded by fanboyism
Lets pretend nothing ive said makes sense and that no one has denied the illegality of A2MR.
Lets pretend ive said fan games and devs are bad guys.
Lalalalalala corporate cheerleader fanboylalala
OK guys. A2MR isnt a problem, cuz look at our avatars! That's not fair use either!
OK.
People just disappointed , obviously im not arguing with you. Of course it's disappointing. Im legit smh at the guy who made the thread and Kotaku making stories about fan games. Ive made some simple points I dont see why you would take it so personally unless somehow you were in your feelings about the game getting taken down but surely such a thing is impossible
Keep coming at me tho
I'm a fanboy for NOT getting unreasonably emotional about something that makes total sense . There are people putting emotions to Nintendo as an entity like it's a human, had intentions, has some sort of spite, but im the one whos just blinded by fanboyism
Your point is that its still copyright infringement even without selling anything? I thought that was my point
and word, well, ive never made a game so. makes sense. I thought maybe it was some kind of file I had never heard of, ive never developed an indie game nor been a part of developing one.
ok I think you guys are giving me too much credit with technical knowledge i didnt mean literally a repackaged (technical) rom (technical).
I meant a "repackaged" (he put a remake of a game into his own game) "rom or whatever" (I dont know what the game file was)
It "barely uses Nintendo assets" other than its a metroid game...
come on...
you guys are mad at me for disagreeing with you and trying to peg me into a fanboy and stuff but can you please stretch your imagination to see how you're in denial about A2MR being blatant copyright infringement? if you recreate someone elses arrangement with your own instruments and sounds its still not your arrangement.
edit: damnit double post!
Bloodporne
Member
Make a good Metroid game, Nintendo, and I'll purchase it. Give me Other M and nearly a decade of radio silence besides that turd and I welcome illegal fan games, hacks or whatever provides me with a new Metroid experience with open arms.
Dr. Zoidberg
Member
That's not going to happen.
I don't know why people keep expecting Nintendo to act like other companies. They do their own thing, like always, and rarely respond to criticism. If you look at the company and their long history, they have always been very protective and extremely litigious. And while as a gamer I appreciate fan games like AM2R, the creators HAD to know that this would be Nintendo's reaction sooner or later. If they expected otherwise they are, at best, extremely naive.
People are well within their right to complain about Nintendo's actions and nature, but I stopped bothering a long time ago. It's essentially yelling at clouds. They aren't going to react to complaints like Sony or Microsoft. As a gamer, your choice is to either accept them or ignore them from now on. I've resigned myself to put up with their nature, but if enough people abandon them, maybe they will change at a faster-than-glacial pace, but I think they will have to exhaust their warchest and fall on truly hard times before that occurs.
durrrrrrrrrr
Member
I am not completely outraged. I guess I'm just part of the problem
oneofthose
Banned
Why should nintendo work with the guys, people give these fan made developers too much credit they just use nintendo gameplay engine. They couldn't make a good metroid game from the ground up to save their lives.
Dsyndrome
Member
I do, bought it new back in the 90's, even remember the advertising the game got on TV in the US.
What better times those were for Metroid.
Bloodporne
Member
They'll probably hire him, have him move to Japan and then reveal that he'll be in charge of Federation Force 2 as punishment for AM2R.
For me this shows that videogames still don't have reach a level like other mediums and the work of an author should not be respected and protected. That's what i get from your post. Art and music are clearly art and should be protected, but game-play, level-design and mechanics are free to steal. It's not like those designers put any work into them.
It is kind of ironic. Those games, which are supposed to pay respect to the developers and the company, who made them possible, get all the hate, because they are used without asking or permission. Just because you don't like there answer, doesn't make it okay, to complete ignore them, disrespect their opinions and worst hate them for it.
protomouse
Member
Corporate application of copyright law (particularly the DMCA) relies on the fact that it is rarely feasible for an individual to challenge the claims.
Azure Dream
Member
The point is you're being a hypocrite. Hilariously, you could've easily changed it by now, as a "see? it's no big deal" response, but you haven't even done that.
It's not just about the avatar though. Other companies have worked with their fans to clear the way for legitimate fan work. This is Nintendo slamming another wall between them and their fans, one that doesn't have to be there. Other companies have found ways to make it work. It's Nintendo's loss that they can't or won't.
Also, there are arguments that
transformative works like AM2R and other fan games could fall under Fair Use, which is right now too vaguely defined for matters like this.
Coffee Dog
Banned
A filmmaker can't claim ownership of slow mo, dutch angles, or other filmmaking techniques. Gameplay, level design motifs, mechanics, and other game making techniques are similar.
Case in point, Stardew Valley is not a Harvest Moon game. It is inspired and iterates on gameplay concepts and ideas in Harvest Moon, but it is in no way a Harvest Moon game nor is it using Harvest Moon assets.
Horsemama1956
Member
Not surprised. Nintendo has been out of touch with reality since the N64.
I really guess I have no place commenting on this issue, as I'm on the wrong side of this augment. Fan games are great pieces of software but they have such a legal issue, just talking about them.
Authors or this case, developers should have their work be protected. But paying homage and being respectful to those mechanics by being faithful to them is wrong.
Not going to comment on fan games on this forum anymore.
How am I being hypocritical? When did I say I dont like fan games? Im arguing for people keeping it underground and not being idiots putting it up everywhere, and also that once its taken down tough titties thats what was gonna happen from day 1. The creator of A2MR knew that the whole time, and even pleaded for people to stop hating on Nintendo.
Also, avatars are not gonna win a court case for infringement and while its not exactly fair use its much closer than A2MR, by LEAGUES. That would lose a court case, mine would get thrown out. Thats a terrible comparison anyways but whatever.
And no, A2MR is not even close to fair use. Fan games are not fair use. At all. Being transformative is not enough, and this isnt transformative enough anyways.
Nah, its not fair use. Its not fair use because its a self stated remake and could affect Nintendo financially, and quite frankly blatantly uses Nintendo's copyright as its main focus, and in a very copied way. That being said, if he kept this game to himself privately (ie kept it from getting to Nintendo's business lawyers, executives, or investors desks), it wouldnt have been a problem. He also could have given Samus a party hat and named her Lamus or something, and made a bunch of tweaks so that its a knock off/fair use instead of a straight up Metroid game.
...
you do realize that art, music, books, all have the component of fan works and the creators don't usually go after them, right? Surely you know this?
ty for sharing, Nintendo is on your own right.
Except AM2R did make a good metroid game from the ground up. They didn't use a single bit of Metroid code, and they didn't use "nintendo gameplay engine" to make the game either. Holy shit, at least look things up before shitposting.
Dreamwriter
Member
What would they hire him to do? Take like 8 years to make Game Maker games that are basically taking existing games and mixing them with other existing games? I mean, sure, we got a great end product here, but it's definitely a hobby project, not the kind of thing to get someone hired.
He might be able to use the project to get an entry level associate designer job or something....
NCR Redslayer
NeoGAF's Vegeta
Rom hackers and original project workers be like, when they get a letter from Nintendo:
Linkstrikesback
Member
I'm curious to hear what you think 'nintendo gameplay engine' is. This should be good.
Pop-O-Matic
Banned
You just described Nintendo's entire creative process for the past 15 years...
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
I get protecting their IP, but they'd really be smart with good ones like AM2R to just go in and hire the guy.
Give him support to polish up the game and put it out. Fans have been begging for a new 2D Metroid game for ages and this would be a way for them to get a quality one out for pretty cheap. While also adding a talented developer to their team--which they need all the help they can get as the NX will fail or succeed on the strength of it's first party lineup.
Give him support to polish up the game and put it out. Fans have been begging for a new 2D Metroid game for ages and this would be a way for them to get a quality one out for pretty cheap. While also adding a talented developer to their team--which they need all the help they can get as the NX will fail or succeed on the strength of it's first party lineup.
Kyzer, AM2R is copyright infringement but it is ultimately harmless for Nintendo. The reason the game exists is that Metroid 2 is extremely dated by modern standards. The audience for the game is either serious Metroid fans who either already own the game and want a better version or people who think Metroid 2 is dated enough that they don't want to buy the original version. Nintendo ultimately doesn't gain that much by going full bore against the game.
It really doesn't. It wouldn't surprise me if the sales for Metroid 2 on the eShop INCREASED based on the additional exposure that AM2R gave the game.
It really doesn't. It wouldn't surprise me if the sales for Metroid 2 on the eShop INCREASED based on the additional exposure that AM2R gave the game.
Mother 4 I can sort of understand because of Shigesato Itoi's passive approval of them using the name might give them pause before they go attacking it.
I also didn't think MKF was still going.
See this would make sense if AM2R was "complementary" to the original, in the way that a lot of fan works are sort of "extended takes" on the original property.
But AM2R was a literal replacement. A drop in "If you play this you don't need to play Metroid 2" experience. It was the same game, brought into the modern day. So no, I highly doubt it would've increased sales. I'm personally on the side that it would've siphoned whatever remaining sales of Metroid 2 that Nintendo was getting.
This is the difference between the comparisons of Nintendo with other companies in terms of IP use. If I make some sort of Star Wars fan film, I'm complementing the original source of the property. It adds interest to the films.
AM2R wasn't complementary. It was a replacement.
I'm willing to bet if you tried to make a full feature film replacement of SW Episode 4, updating it for the "modern age", Disney would not be nearly as kind as they typically are to "fan projects". And even films are an entire different ballgame of comparison to video games.
This comparison doesn't mean much for some of the smaller fan projects that I'd argue lie closer to the "complementary" camp, but AM2R definitely wasn't.
*Raises hand*
Own both the VC and the original Gameboy version (though that one's lost somewhere).
Fucking Nintendo fanboys.
I can attest to not owning a copy of Metroid 2 on any platform, but downloading AM2R. I can't say I'd ever have played the original otherwise, but it can reasonably count as a lost sale.
You didn't know the entire Metroid series was made in Game Maker?
Taking down AM2R might not have been the best move PR-wise, but actually legitimising it would probably be a mistake; it'd damage the public perception of Nintendo IP as a whole and set a dangerous precedent in terms of its unofficial use. They also have less than nothing to gain from hiring the main developer - they have a surplus of talented staff, hiring a foreigner with no applicable technical experience for the kinds of games they produce would probably not go too well, to say the least.
You didn't know the entire Metroid series was made in Game Maker?
Taking down AM2R might not have been the best move PR-wise, but actually legitimising it would probably be a mistake; it'd damage the public perception of Nintendo IP as a whole and set a dangerous precedent in terms of its unofficial use. They also have less than nothing to gain from hiring the main developer - they have a surplus of talented staff, hiring a foreigner with no applicable technical experience for the kinds of games they produce would probably not go too well, to say the least.
It was as if Nintendo picked up a rifle and went to town. The casualties are staggering! Mother 4 quickly and quietly continues training. Upon hearing of the slaughter of his fellow fangames he breaks into a cold sweat, redoubling his efforts to finish his training. Will he be ready when Nintendo knocks on his door? Will Nintendo show mercy and let him get a head start? Its anyone's game now...
But Seriously, is this apart of Nintendo's rebranding? Do they want to reinvent themselves as the type of company that does not allow fan works thrive to anymore? Does this have to do with the change in CEO?
but my fight money...
Alex_Mexico
Member
Did he really did that? Did he even get any response from Nintendo at all? Whatever he did or didn't get Im sure it wasn't a positive one but I'm really curious to see if Nintendo even bothered giving him the time of day.
Alex_Mexico
Member
You guys will shit up, buy Federation Force, and you'll like it!
Icedburden
Member
Gotta love copyright and trademark trolls. Either you enforce them or the courts will bulldoze you.
lmao is this for real? Go read up on how much work and creativity went into AM2R before rushing to show off your ignorance.
they made AMR2 from the ground up.
People still buy and play Resident Evil Director's Cut even though REmake is a thing that exists. Remakes never fully eliminate the appreciation for the original project, and in many cases they revitalize interest in it.