This kind of attitude is the reason why open development is something that never gets done.
These things, take time.
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Kotaku's 7 month investigation into Star Citizen's development
- Thread starter Widge
- Start date
This kind of attitude is the reason why open development is something that never gets done.
These things, take time.
Spukc
always chasing the next thrill
Sorry for thinking $18150,- is a little bit silly.
and this is coming from a person who is still waiting for rust to finish
Until he puts the same amount of effort into developing his current "game" as he did into disparaging Chris Roberts, I can't give him even the tiniest amount of credit. Literally the only thing he's ever accomplished in the last twenty years has been trolling the internet.
There's nothing wrong with the way they are doing it. The game will be made.
Spukc
always chasing the next thrill
true story starbound was a huge mess and turned out to be great in the end.
ebullientprism
Member
This is some fantastic stuff from Kotaku.
Well I do absolutely hope a fully robust and crazy ass game comes out of this. I really do want people to enjoy this ultimate space sim. It's just very easy to be skeptical when looking at the big picture of this game's history.
StereoVsn
Member
If quality Squadron 42 game comes out (supposedly Part 1 of trilogy with 20+ hours of story gameplay) then I would be fine with ponying up $50 (or was it $60) for it. Anything else is a bonus.
Lets put it this way, Cloud Imperium Games, because they aren't using their money has a responsibility to their backers to create the product that advertised. At this point in development, they shouldn't be in a "learning phase" and should already be familiar with the engine and tools they work with. Practicality is when CIG gets their act together and begins to deliver a quality product to backers. While impressive all this time, money and manpower spent on facial textures and animations doesn't really contribute to the overall product. Yes, it looks nice, but that level of fidelity isn't needed in a game where you spend most your time flying a ship or in 1st person for that matter. You shouldn't be spending resources in a dick wagging contest to see who can create the faces with the best fidelity.
Gabriel_Logan
Member
Didn't Derek Smart have some shocking information on Star Citizen? And then never released it?
Zalusithix
Member
Would you prefer no ships and a meet and greet with Roberts? That'd be even more "insane" since you get nothing for it right? These high tiers are never supposed to be a value for the money. They're to support game development first and foremost. Everything else is a bonus. Welcome to crowdfunding.
Nobody is forced to pledge that much. Until recently you could get in at well under the $60 mark for both games.
CyberPunked
Member
He has shocking information every day that he will release in either two weeks or 90 days.
Both games were always part of the kickstarter.
I'd say crowdfunding a small single player campaign and blowing it out into a full MMO before you release what you promised is absolutely the wrong way to do it.
They may still succeed, because they essentially have infinite money to throw at all of their problems, but it doesn't mean this is a good way to do anything.
So games with development problems never release. Right.
How could you have possibly read the article and come to that conclusion?
What about the ad hoc studio expansion? Or how the release approach of multiple modules simultaneously rather than sequentially is expressly why development has stalled? Or how months and months were wasted due to poor communication? Or how the engine they chose has had to be practically rebuilt and even the FPS components were stripped out?
smfh.
Honestly, this doesn't surprise me in the slightest. I backed the game but until recently didn't pay close attention to the developement (because 3.0 is coming up soon'ish).
With a project this large and with so much going on I'd actually be shocked if everything went according to plan. There will be huge friction, errors will be made. I think it's the nature of the best. Combined with the high pressure to deliver etc.
It also has to be said that it'll always have a negative slant because of the people talking to Kotaku (usually people that left/unhappy) which does colour it, even if Kotaku tries to be as neutral as possible in their reporting.
To me, the last few months they've been showing a lot more and things are slowly starting to come together. I don't think all the systems they hoped will end up in the game initially (or ever). But I do think that the majority will end up in the game. Though I do think with the complexity of it all it'll have a bit of a 'janky' feel to it all.
Roberts is asking a lot, maybe too much and he definitly seemed to have made mistakes, but nothing where I'm like "this project is going horribly off-rails"
What alternative engine could they have used though to start out with besides building their own? (which sorta is the case now). Cry-Engine was used for a lot of huge area games with high fidelity. It seemed like a good engine to start with.
A lot of those issues you list seem like growing pains though, it's a huge game with a huge amount of people from various studios. That's not easy to manage.
With a project this large and with so much going on I'd actually be shocked if everything went according to plan. There will be huge friction, errors will be made. I think it's the nature of the best. Combined with the high pressure to deliver etc.
It also has to be said that it'll always have a negative slant because of the people talking to Kotaku (usually people that left/unhappy) which does colour it, even if Kotaku tries to be as neutral as possible in their reporting.
To me, the last few months they've been showing a lot more and things are slowly starting to come together. I don't think all the systems they hoped will end up in the game initially (or ever). But I do think that the majority will end up in the game. Though I do think with the complexity of it all it'll have a bit of a 'janky' feel to it all.
Roberts is asking a lot, maybe too much and he definitly seemed to have made mistakes, but nothing where I'm like "this project is going horribly off-rails"
What alternative engine could they have used though to start out with besides building their own? (which sorta is the case now). Cry-Engine was used for a lot of huge area games with high fidelity. It seemed like a good engine to start with.
A lot of those issues you list seem like growing pains though, it's a huge game with a huge amount of people from various studios. That's not easy to manage.
Did you even read the article. Like a couple of paragraphs after that the author admits that actually Star Citizen was able to implement these ideas and proved the naysayers wrong.
Anyway, for now it seems like a pretty standard major project. You've got problems with communication, scope getting out of control, lots of restructures and redesigns. This is basically the reason why most AAA games aren't announced til they've been in development for several years, due to all kinds of problems like this.
Look at something like Horizon, which was first began back in 2011 and is due to be released 6 years later. It wasn't actually unveiled until several years after. And I know for a fact that the new Deus EX was in development for 3 years before being revealed.
Do you know anything about project management, or business management in general? Nothing in there is particularly unexpected or poorly done. This is simply what happens with mega projects of this scale. Companies hit communication issues and tech changes and expansions issues all the time in every industry.
I would be surprised beyond believe if we see Death Stranding in the next 5 years lol.
Cyberpunk though, who knows.
Anyway, if anyone wants to see some interesting videos on FPS and Character detail:
Current state of FPS
The tech behind the above video
Chris Roberts Q&A about character detail and customization
The single player campaign and the MMO.
Spukc
always chasing the next thrill
BOTH games?
excuse me ?
That's kinda crazy seing how Deus Ex turned out to be a sequel-ass sequel.
Star Citizen
Squadron 42
Spukc
always chasing the next thrill
Did they split the game ? You know never mind.
No?, they are different games.
Zalusithix
Member
Star Citizen is the MMO. Squadron 42 is the single player campaign. This is like Star Citizen 101 stuff here.
This this this. Goddamn it, why is a second freelancer so hard to make?
This was also known from the Day 1 of kickstarter.
Pretty sure that's above The Order detail...
A character model. I think they are referencing the vibrancy and realisation of the world. Which is significantly easier to do in a tight focus 3rd person shooter than it is in a sprawling space opera.
Cyberpunk maybe, but Death Stranding isn't even a game right now.
Squadron 42 and Star Citizen, the story campaign and the MMO.
That is not what the article says. It is very clearly talking about character designs.
😘
I thought Rebel Galaxy would be a decent step in the right direction, then I realized it's braodside combat without three-dimensional space movement.
Also, annoying as hell space trucker music and vibe. Yuck.
No. It was always pitched as a single player experience to be delivered first and the multiplayer stretch goal laden bit afterwards.
I think this bit is a bit risky right now because people don't actually know this and may draw incorrect conclusions when the first part comes out.
My bad misread, assumption & corrected!
I don't know how to feel about this - Roberts actually needing to see his ideas fail in-game before he'll back down seems more than a bit ridiculous. Hopefully now that the machine he's set up is apparently running more smoothly, there is less of this - from both sides. Eventually that money will run out.
Still want Squadron 42, but like DNF, my expectations are now basically so low as to not matter. If it comes out, fantastic, I'll play it. If not, gaming goes on.
Still want Squadron 42, but like DNF, my expectations are now basically so low as to not matter. If it comes out, fantastic, I'll play it. If not, gaming goes on.
apav
Member
Of course a project with this much ambition will be surrounded by controversy. Many of the things theyr'e trying to achieve haven't even been attempted before, let alone accomplished.
Despite all the controversies, delays, challenges and pitfalls, there has been one thing that has kept me in high hopes for the game. That is results. People claimed 2.0 was a tech demo which we wouldn't even get in 2016. We got it in 2015 and the features and gameplay were exactly what was described. Chris Roberts said in 2015 that seamless space to ground/ground to space transitions and fully explorable planets would come after release. A year later, we got the 3.0 demo and will possibly get 3.0 by the end of the year. The planet shown in the demo has more surface area than the entire United States, and that is just a small planetoid in one system, in a game that is confirmed to have 100 systems at release. We recently got a teaser for the new video stabilization technology, which is a vast improvement to the camera and for the first time ever FPS gameplay actually looks good.
Maybe Chris Roberts is a horrible boss, maybe working at CIG is hell, and maybe their development process is inefficient. They're making huge strides that show that this is possible, and doable. And even if they somehow fail, their attempt was still good for the industry.
I'm normally a skeptic, so I would've jumped ship a long time if this was your traditional Triple-A game with the same sort of controversies. But we have multiple new development videos every week, and we're able to play every publicly released version of the game before it releases. It's very clear the game is coming together, but due to it's massive scale and scope it will take time.
Despite all the controversies, delays, challenges and pitfalls, there has been one thing that has kept me in high hopes for the game. That is results. People claimed 2.0 was a tech demo which we wouldn't even get in 2016. We got it in 2015 and the features and gameplay were exactly what was described. Chris Roberts said in 2015 that seamless space to ground/ground to space transitions and fully explorable planets would come after release. A year later, we got the 3.0 demo and will possibly get 3.0 by the end of the year. The planet shown in the demo has more surface area than the entire United States, and that is just a small planetoid in one system, in a game that is confirmed to have 100 systems at release. We recently got a teaser for the new video stabilization technology, which is a vast improvement to the camera and for the first time ever FPS gameplay actually looks good.
Maybe Chris Roberts is a horrible boss, maybe working at CIG is hell, and maybe their development process is inefficient. They're making huge strides that show that this is possible, and doable. And even if they somehow fail, their attempt was still good for the industry.
I'm normally a skeptic, so I would've jumped ship a long time if this was your traditional Triple-A game with the same sort of controversies. But we have multiple new development videos every week, and we're able to play every publicly released version of the game before it releases. It's very clear the game is coming together, but due to it's massive scale and scope it will take time.
Abstrusity
Member
It's okay, when Christ Roberts ascends to a higher plane, you will be the first blasphemers to defy the will of our new God! From His heavenly host shall descend an army of the Faithful to purge all who dare doubt Him!.
/s
And then Star Citizen will release, 2020 or so.
Really, it's no surprise. I just want S42.
/s
And then Star Citizen will release, 2020 or so.
Really, it's no surprise. I just want S42.
Plenty. Do you? When your project drastically changes you respec your engine requirements. You research the best locations for your industry rather than arbitrarily migrating across an ocean because you worked there 20 years ago. You have workflow processes in place beforehand so everyone knows what project they're working on. You don't use simultaneous releases for the exact reasons their own goddamn developers gave. You don't needlessly start up a whole bunch of satellite studios for the exact reason that it can result in months and months of work being scrapped due to not everyone working on the same page.
Who reads a massive infodump like one in the OP and has their opinion completely unchanged? Are you so majorly invested you're going to dismiss anything negative?
How could you read the article and come to the conclusion that it's the end of the world? Nothing in it was suprising or really that negative but it seems like you have a bone to pick and just want to shit on anything.
My opinion is completely unchanged.
Yeah I think the confusion is real. I know this is basic for the hardcore backers that follow everything about this game. But for the rest of us it's way too confusing.
Personally I follow a lot of video games. I read gaming sites daily, and have seen SC since its kickstarter. I know that it has various modules released, and there will be an FPS portion of the game. But I don't keep up on things enough to know the name of each of the parts and definitely don't know what is going to be together as a package and what will be sold separately. Hell, I just went to the RSI store and I don't even really know how to pre-order "the game". I think if you buy the squadron 42 package for about $55 then you get a game when it comes out but sounds like you don't get the MP portion? I am not big on pre-ordering games any way, but if I was then in this case I'd still be inclined to wait until it's all finished so I can see what's actually available and how much it costs then decide if I want to buy it.
Open, development.
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