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New 3D Mario game shown in Nintendo Switch trailer
- Thread starter amnesiac
- Start date
Labrynian Rebel
Member
Have to wait and see, but I have a good feeling about this one.
Because the phrasing was created to be and still is dismissive and aggressive. It was created to say "Not only do I dislike this apporch it is wrong and shold not be done." Look at the words often used "Not a real 3d Mario." It looks at the (surface level*) play style that does ask yo to be able to navigate a 3d enverment but declares it not "real" because what you're doing in that 3d space is different so every other element of the game that is 3d is thrown aside as not counting. The amount of bellyfeel it takes to think that the term "Not a real 3d Mario." is not both wrong and inherently dismissive is mind boggling.
*I'll be getting back to this, my big post is still in the works.
Jonneh3003
Banned
Much cheaper just to get an N64
Aldric
Member
Or maybe you're just being melodramatic and people use these words because it conveys their opinion in a more concise way than pointing out the myriad of differences between 3D World and its predecessors everytime?
The fact this outrages so many people will never stop being funny.
Going from Galaxy to 3D Land & World isn't that crazy of a jump in direction to me, but it's definitely the moment these 3D Mario games started to feel different from their Mario 64 roots to the point they felt more like 2D Mario in terms of design philosophy, agreed. And I don't even think that's necessarily a bad thing, I'm saying this as someone who loved 3d Land and especially World. I simply liked these games for different reasons.
That said I definitely miss the Mario 64 / Sunshine / Galaxy style of 3D Mario, so I'm pleased this 3D Mario is seemingly closer to those. I don't care much for the linearity discussion with such limited footage, but even with a majority of linear levels the change in camera control, movement (I love you, triple jump), NPCs and going by that heart, health will do a whole lot to bring that feeling back.
As for the 3D Land style, I really liked it but I'm good if they move away from it. To me a really inventive 2D Mario would scratch the same itch, so I'm just hoping for that to return.
I wouldn't ever use the words "not a real 3D Mario" though, obviously 3D Land and World are Mario games that are 3D platformers... But I do understand that when people use these words they're trying to refer to a very specific style of 3D platforming.
I don't think people wouldn't have been divided if Mario had gone straight up Banjo Kazooie collectathon style with its 3D Mario games either, you know? 3D Mario has always felt a little more reserved than that. (Sunshine did come close though... those damn blue coins.)
That said I definitely miss the Mario 64 / Sunshine / Galaxy style of 3D Mario, so I'm pleased this 3D Mario is seemingly closer to those. I don't care much for the linearity discussion with such limited footage, but even with a majority of linear levels the change in camera control, movement (I love you, triple jump), NPCs and going by that heart, health will do a whole lot to bring that feeling back.
As for the 3D Land style, I really liked it but I'm good if they move away from it. To me a really inventive 2D Mario would scratch the same itch, so I'm just hoping for that to return.
I wouldn't ever use the words "not a real 3D Mario" though, obviously 3D Land and World are Mario games that are 3D platformers... But I do understand that when people use these words they're trying to refer to a very specific style of 3D platforming.
I don't think people wouldn't have been divided if Mario had gone straight up Banjo Kazooie collectathon style with its 3D Mario games either, you know? 3D Mario has always felt a little more reserved than that. (Sunshine did come close though... those damn blue coins.)
If it's going back to fully open world ala 64, having more than one person playing on the screen could be troublesome, unless there's going to be a camera split down the middle of the screen.
Let's take it from the top then:
Excuse me, but what? You're going to have to go in-depth here. How does any of this make it "play like a 2D game"?
3D Land/World just take standard Mario features and use them. For the game. They don't play at all like 2D games. The argument is especially garbage since it works just as well in the other direction. NSMBU shares too many features, pacing, structure, powerups with 3D Land, it plays too much like a 3D game, I'm disliking this direction for the series. Spoiler alert: it's how Mario games work most of the time.
I hope this new one finds a cool (get it because ice) balance between traditional/experimental/explorational Mario, given it's launching on a hybrid system.
Aldric
Member
Good post.
l don't even particularly dislike the hybrid formula. l had fun with 3D Land. l just don't want it to be the unique future of 3D Mario, but that was never Nintendo's intention anyway.
pre-alpha footage
I am guessing that this game is already extremely far along, if not already mostly done. The Switch doesn't seem to have any control gimmicks, and from their marketing looks focused mostly on traditional gaming and adult gamers.
It makes sense that they are returning to a more "hardcore" experience with Mario, and going back to the Mario 64 / Sunshine formula. Galaxy has already been done, and then 3D Land and World kinda fully explored the whole "Linear, 2D / 3D hybrid" thing. It seems natural that the developers would want to go back to the 64 mold and rebuild it with modern technology.
My guess is that this is a launch game, and will be a big, substantial showpiece for the system.
It makes sense that they are returning to a more "hardcore" experience with Mario, and going back to the Mario 64 / Sunshine formula. Galaxy has already been done, and then 3D Land and World kinda fully explored the whole "Linear, 2D / 3D hybrid" thing. It seems natural that the developers would want to go back to the 64 mold and rebuild it with modern technology.
My guess is that this is a launch game, and will be a big, substantial showpiece for the system.
Solid SOAP
Member
It's great to see that Mario is actually athletic again for the first time since Sunshine. Even in Galaxy, the long jump brought him to a dead stop once completed. Now it seems to speed him up again like in 64. Great!
Davey Cakes
Member
Yeah. He seems to carry the momentum, which is nice.
I bet the game will be a wonder to control.
Neff
Member
It looks so good so far. All I'm wanting to see to really seal the deal is a SM64-style backflip which actually moves Mario back as well as up.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
you're just wasting your time with this one, Aldric don't care. Source: been here done this
MrSaturn99
Member
Great post. This is pretty much where I'm at.
paradox121
Member
I do wonder if it'll just end up being called Super Mario Switch with some sort of switching mechanic at that heart of it.
I could totally seeing it being the case that you need to 'switch' to another version of the level for certain things in the level (such as the crystal mountain things) to become solid. Maybe even a night time spooky Day of the Dead style aesthetic in this case when you do.
It would definitely open up a range of possibilities for completing levels and switching mid-jump etc. Plus they can finally steal something back from the Giana sisters
I could totally seeing it being the case that you need to 'switch' to another version of the level for certain things in the level (such as the crystal mountain things) to become solid. Maybe even a night time spooky Day of the Dead style aesthetic in this case when you do.
It would definitely open up a range of possibilities for completing levels and switching mid-jump etc. Plus they can finally steal something back from the Giana sisters
You're query to go in-depth immediately following it up by preemptively calling it garbage doesn't particularly invite going in depth.
2D Mario's and 3D world fall into a different aesthetics category than Mario 64 thru Galaxy 1 (challenge vs expression).
You can also see this in how Mario 64 had the inverse level design process as opposed to Mario Bros.
Aldric
Member
So let me get this straight: you think l'm being unreasonable when l state that 3D Land/World play more like classic 2D Mario sidescrollers than the other 3D Mario games... despite the fact Nintendo designers themselves stated the 3D Land formula was born out of their desire to mix the two styles together.
This is particularly absurd because 3D World fans essentially say the same thing when they praise the game for finally getting 3D Mario right, being a more faithful adaptation of classic Mario gameplay by cutting down all the "fluff" from Galaxy and others and focusing on "pure" platforming. This is ridiculous.
I'd wager some NOE source, as NOE seems to be a leaky ship as of late. All leaks seem to come from that region of the world this year.
I'd love to know what 'somewhat abandoned IP' constitutes, too. I'd guess Wario Land, honestly.
Or Metroid... Oh wait! We just got a Metroid game!
James Scott
Banned
Yeah, that's pretty great. He even seems to go faster after the jump spreading his arms out a bit.
Jarod McChicken
Member
I didn't realize how ready I was for a new 3D Mario. Giving us that little sneak peek during the Switch promo video was very clever ^_^
TheSpaceBetween
Member
It's funny on both ends. The ignorance of the people who say it and the exaggerated offense that people take to it.
CharminUltra
Member
Team #loveallmarios represent!
2D, SM64 style, NEW style, World/Land style. I luv 'em all.
2D, SM64 style, NEW style, World/Land style. I luv 'em all.
Schopenhauerian
Member
The camera does seem to be a big part of the '64 feels' folks are getting:
In particular:
Also:
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
I wasn't a very big fan of 3D World, so I'm hoping this teeters back towards Galaxy.
Solid SOAP
Member
I have faith that Mario will have a plethora of ways to manipulate him in this one. If the crazy Gamexplain videos are to be believed, there's tons of stuff on top of the roofs in that first section, indicating that it truly is a hub worth exploring. I think that we'll be able to utilize the return of Mario's athleticism in ways not possible since Sunshine, cannot wait.
Huh. Maybe it is Metroid with that qualifier, then? It's at the very least making me think we've seen it on 3DS relatively recently. ... Kid Icarus?
Still pulling for a Fury Road/Drive-inspired Mach Rider, Uncharted-inspired Star Tropics, or anything Drill Dozer, though.
valkillmore
Member
P-Switch. And I totally agree with you, there will be something to do with switching something.
Captain Europe
Member
I hope they go crazy with this one, I want crazy athletic Mario with crazy parkour skills, like Sonic's ability to run on walls in Sonic Lost World. More stuff like that please.
Solid SOAP
Member
If the dive is back were gonna be in for some awesome speed running goodness
Captain Europe
Member
The only thing that's making me doubt that is Peach, her panties would be showing all the time, and I don't think Nintendo's gonna do that.
That or, she's gonna be kidnapped again, or every characters is gonna have different moves, which would make things interesting actually.
JB-the-Hunter
Member
I'm just hoping this game is a mix of the best elements from all the 3D Mario games
Camera: 64/Sunshine/Galaxy
Moveset: 64/Galaxy
Power-ups: Galaxy/3D World
Bosses: Galaxy
Scope: Galaxy
Level design: 50% Linear (3D World) 50% Open (64/Sunshine)
Narrative: Sunshine
Camera: 64/Sunshine/Galaxy
Moveset: 64/Galaxy
Power-ups: Galaxy/3D World
Bosses: Galaxy
Scope: Galaxy
Level design: 50% Linear (3D World) 50% Open (64/Sunshine)
Narrative: Sunshine
Icyflamez96
Member
you lost me
Solid SOAP
Member
Captain Europe
Member
I hope not, they should keep 4 players, it's fine if it isn't the focus of the game, but at least keep it as an option.
I'm actually thinking Luigi's Mansion 3. Last game will be 4 years old when Switch releases, and there were rumors that a 3rd game was in dev for Switch.
TheDinoman
Member
People having their own screens in handheld mode would make for some interesting co-op gameplay.
I remember my brother and I were playing through 3D World and at some point he remarked how much of a missed opportunity it was that the person using the Gamepad didn't get their own screen/camera to work with, which I agreed with.
I remember my brother and I were playing through 3D World and at some point he remarked how much of a missed opportunity it was that the person using the Gamepad didn't get their own screen/camera to work with, which I agreed with.
FloweryMarston
Member
I think the problem with this is that the game was not designed for the characters to be in different places. They had to follow a similar pace because there was a timer in the game. I think if this game is following the 64 style, it would work, since it will be exploration based, so while me as mario go get a star/collectable, another friend could be doing the same in an entirely different area.
Icyflamez96
Member
I hope they have a gamepad peripheral.
TheDinoman
Member
Some crazy SOB actually programmed co-op into Mario 64. Crazy shit. Would love to see it implemented into an official (non-3D World styled) Mario game.
So When I said I had big post coming on how the different Mario games have more in common in terms of level design then people make them out to? Yeah it got.. BIG.
Well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VvkXA6xpqI
Let's start with something REALLY simple, every Mario has a wider move set then is strictly need to complete the game, yes even SMB2 LL doesn’t demand you master every possible permutation of the move-set. At no point does it damned you to do a mid-air duck, for example, that exists for experienced players to be able to play through the level faster and flashier. There is no mainline Mario platformer that is not partly a playground to mess around with, though SMB, SMB2 USA and SMB2 LL are on the weaker side of the playground elements,
This means That I don't count 64's very low skill floor against it. It does hide away the higher level platforming more then almost any other Mario game, but given that tit was one of the first 3d platfromers, especially a 3d platformer with analog controls it was very understandable.
How ever this doesn’t make its platforming any deeper there other entries. (This also dances around the issue of do you count power up moves as part of the move-set? I know dome people don't seemingly on the logic that any move that can't be done through unique inputs alone doesn’t count, which I don't find all that convincing.)
As I noted every main line Mario Platformer has heavy playground element which leads to their being far less difference between 2d Mario; 64, Sunshine Mario, Glaxay Mario and the 3d series Mario. To show this let's look at an actual 2d Mario course and point out the playground elements and speculate how easily this course could be converted into any of the existing 3d Mario styles.
I'll be using 2-3 from Super Mario Brothers 3. I choose SMB3 because it's both well regard by almost everyone and in terms of its level design. It's also not one of the Mario games often described as “exploratory” and this level in particular is pretty straightforward, housing only one secret area.
Here's the level:
http://www.nesmaps.com/maps/SuperMarioBrothers3/SuperMarioBros3Map2-3.html
The level in fact looks to be the very linear form of course design that we think of 3d Land having well having nothing in common with 64's course designs, and noted not to empower the player to mess around. But that misses so much. In fact this level is full of places to get expressive.
The course can be divide into three main section, the one-way block pyramids, the two brick block pyramids and the brick block pyramid covering the exit pipe.
The first section is patrolled by fire snakes and Koopa Troopas and three pits separating each the pyramids. The easiest way to handle this section is to run right past it, this section that makes up a good half of the level is almost all about messing about. At the top of each of pyramid are two “?” blocks, but they blocked on the bottom by brick blocks. This means a player that enters the course powered up is rewarded with easy prizes. But the first two set of blocks are arranged to be able to broken with a Koopa Troopa Shells easily. The first and last one-way block pyramids give power up so with good play even if you start the course as regular Mario you can power all the way up to Raccoon Mario. In between the two is a Starman, which could easily tempt a player to grab it and run right past the second Super leaf block losing out on the chance to power up. I could keep going on about this one section, but lets move on.
The Second section is patrolled by Brick Goombas and some more Koopa Troopas. Once more the easiest way to handle this section is to run right through it, up the first brick block pyramid, across the wooden blocks and down the second brick block pyramid, and again you’d be missing out. The simple fact that they're a bunch of Brick blocks here means a player can just mess around destroying them with a raccoon tail or using the Koopa Troopas here, possible discovering the hidden 1-Up well doing so. Of course the real prize is getting to the hidden platforms in the sky. You can reach them form flying, or by uncovering invisible blocks. If flying your more likely to uncover the higher, more hidden of the platforms which holds a P-switch turns all the brick blocks into coins easily giving you access to the 1-up and tons of coins.
Finally we have the half of a Brick block pyramid blocking a pipe to the exit area. Once more we have a few Koopa Troopas patrolling the area, and this time making use of their shells is mandatory. Well most of this course engaging with way enemies, level element and Mario's actions can all play off one another has been optional now you HAVE to engage with how shells brick blocks and coin blocks interact. It's sort of mandatory playing about to end the course, no real challenge, just a brief bit of watching the game do some pinball with its elements. You do get one final option before the leave though, a 10-coin block rests in the area the Koopa shell will end up bouncing back and forth, giving the option to test your reaction skills to get closer to another life.
Oh boy,I, didn't really cover everything you could say about that course, an early not super special or hard one that you can race through in under 30 seconds. All hiding a mini playground of platforming. Lord the level design in SMB3 is great.
Anyways I feel how that translates into 3d Land or World doesn’t need to be too elaborated on, 3d versions of those sections arranged in a straight line. So let's move on to the form of Mario that seems most removed from SMB3's level design, 64.
At the most basic all you need to do to make this take the sections put them in an open area, perhaps in a rough circle. Then take each sections and take the optional goals and make some of them power stars. Have to break into one encased at the top of the one-way block pyramids, perhaps you need to grab a power up to do so or triple jump/use a cannon to get into an area on the top of the pyramid. Fly up on to the flouting platforms. Instead of finding a 1-up in the brick block pyramid it's a star, that sort of thing.
Galaxy could work by placing each section on a planet and one of the mission that got you a power star in 64 would create a launch star to send you to the next section.
At heart most Mario games are working form the same building blocks, just provide different focuses on elements that are in all of them. 64's greater playground feel comes from not setting a clear overarching goal, such a single end point. Add one of those and a lot of people will get certain amount of tunnel vision and not notice all the playground elements that exist on the way to end point. Remove it and its like taking blinders off the entire possibility of messing about comes into focus.
Well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VvkXA6xpqI
Let's start with something REALLY simple, every Mario has a wider move set then is strictly need to complete the game, yes even SMB2 LL doesn’t demand you master every possible permutation of the move-set. At no point does it damned you to do a mid-air duck, for example, that exists for experienced players to be able to play through the level faster and flashier. There is no mainline Mario platformer that is not partly a playground to mess around with, though SMB, SMB2 USA and SMB2 LL are on the weaker side of the playground elements,
This means That I don't count 64's very low skill floor against it. It does hide away the higher level platforming more then almost any other Mario game, but given that tit was one of the first 3d platfromers, especially a 3d platformer with analog controls it was very understandable.
How ever this doesn’t make its platforming any deeper there other entries. (This also dances around the issue of do you count power up moves as part of the move-set? I know dome people don't seemingly on the logic that any move that can't be done through unique inputs alone doesn’t count, which I don't find all that convincing.)
As I noted every main line Mario Platformer has heavy playground element which leads to their being far less difference between 2d Mario; 64, Sunshine Mario, Glaxay Mario and the 3d series Mario. To show this let's look at an actual 2d Mario course and point out the playground elements and speculate how easily this course could be converted into any of the existing 3d Mario styles.
I'll be using 2-3 from Super Mario Brothers 3. I choose SMB3 because it's both well regard by almost everyone and in terms of its level design. It's also not one of the Mario games often described as “exploratory” and this level in particular is pretty straightforward, housing only one secret area.
Here's the level:
http://www.nesmaps.com/maps/SuperMarioBrothers3/SuperMarioBros3Map2-3.html
The level in fact looks to be the very linear form of course design that we think of 3d Land having well having nothing in common with 64's course designs, and noted not to empower the player to mess around. But that misses so much. In fact this level is full of places to get expressive.
The course can be divide into three main section, the one-way block pyramids, the two brick block pyramids and the brick block pyramid covering the exit pipe.
The first section is patrolled by fire snakes and Koopa Troopas and three pits separating each the pyramids. The easiest way to handle this section is to run right past it, this section that makes up a good half of the level is almost all about messing about. At the top of each of pyramid are two “?” blocks, but they blocked on the bottom by brick blocks. This means a player that enters the course powered up is rewarded with easy prizes. But the first two set of blocks are arranged to be able to broken with a Koopa Troopa Shells easily. The first and last one-way block pyramids give power up so with good play even if you start the course as regular Mario you can power all the way up to Raccoon Mario. In between the two is a Starman, which could easily tempt a player to grab it and run right past the second Super leaf block losing out on the chance to power up. I could keep going on about this one section, but lets move on.
The Second section is patrolled by Brick Goombas and some more Koopa Troopas. Once more the easiest way to handle this section is to run right through it, up the first brick block pyramid, across the wooden blocks and down the second brick block pyramid, and again you’d be missing out. The simple fact that they're a bunch of Brick blocks here means a player can just mess around destroying them with a raccoon tail or using the Koopa Troopas here, possible discovering the hidden 1-Up well doing so. Of course the real prize is getting to the hidden platforms in the sky. You can reach them form flying, or by uncovering invisible blocks. If flying your more likely to uncover the higher, more hidden of the platforms which holds a P-switch turns all the brick blocks into coins easily giving you access to the 1-up and tons of coins.
Finally we have the half of a Brick block pyramid blocking a pipe to the exit area. Once more we have a few Koopa Troopas patrolling the area, and this time making use of their shells is mandatory. Well most of this course engaging with way enemies, level element and Mario's actions can all play off one another has been optional now you HAVE to engage with how shells brick blocks and coin blocks interact. It's sort of mandatory playing about to end the course, no real challenge, just a brief bit of watching the game do some pinball with its elements. You do get one final option before the leave though, a 10-coin block rests in the area the Koopa shell will end up bouncing back and forth, giving the option to test your reaction skills to get closer to another life.
Oh boy,I, didn't really cover everything you could say about that course, an early not super special or hard one that you can race through in under 30 seconds. All hiding a mini playground of platforming. Lord the level design in SMB3 is great.
Anyways I feel how that translates into 3d Land or World doesn’t need to be too elaborated on, 3d versions of those sections arranged in a straight line. So let's move on to the form of Mario that seems most removed from SMB3's level design, 64.
At the most basic all you need to do to make this take the sections put them in an open area, perhaps in a rough circle. Then take each sections and take the optional goals and make some of them power stars. Have to break into one encased at the top of the one-way block pyramids, perhaps you need to grab a power up to do so or triple jump/use a cannon to get into an area on the top of the pyramid. Fly up on to the flouting platforms. Instead of finding a 1-up in the brick block pyramid it's a star, that sort of thing.
Galaxy could work by placing each section on a planet and one of the mission that got you a power star in 64 would create a launch star to send you to the next section.
At heart most Mario games are working form the same building blocks, just provide different focuses on elements that are in all of them. 64's greater playground feel comes from not setting a clear overarching goal, such a single end point. Add one of those and a lot of people will get certain amount of tunnel vision and not notice all the playground elements that exist on the way to end point. Remove it and its like taking blinders off the entire possibility of messing about comes into focus.
Mario 3D World is the closest a 3D Mario game ever came to being something I liked, and I've tried all of them, and I do mean all. I will just never enjoy a 3 dimensional platformer as much as I enjoy 2 dimensional platformers, and 2D Mario games are top tier 2D platformers. I would take any of the New Super Mario Bros series, even 2 on the 3DS, over Mario 64 or Mario Galaxy any day.
So, no, I'm not particularly excited by what I've seen so far.
So, no, I'm not particularly excited by what I've seen so far.