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P.T. has been datamined (hidden enemies revealed)

S

Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew

Banned
dragonzdogma said:
That white humanoid thing looks like falks avatar.
Click to expand...

LOL! I was going to say Engineer from Prometheus.

qVCpuP2.jpg
 
C

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
KyleCross said:
Both P.T. and MGSV were Fox Engine games so they shared the same exact structure, so it's just a matter of throwing the model in there. Tho of course it's not 100% perfect because the rigging and animation is tweaked slightly on a per-model basis. Watch some of the mod videos where they replace Snake with one of the kids, it's hilarious.
Click to expand...
The fact that it didn't break in anyway shape or form is what's impressive.
TronLight said:
Of course it is? In the trailer it walks and it has facial animations.
Click to expand...
Didn't expect it to be basically finished. A lot of early rigs or even finished ones can have tons of issues, like whenever people tried to do a model swap of Sheva with Jill in RE5 her rig would break and it's look like her face was melting.
 
B

BlazeHedgehog

Member
Crossing Eden said:
Didn't expect it to be basically finished. A lot of early rigs or even finished ones can have tons of issues, like whenever people tried to do a model swap of Sheva with Jill in RE5 her rig would break and it's look like her face was melting.
Click to expand...

It also depends on the engine. For example, Street Fighter 5 actually seem to scale animations to the model's proportions, so even if you put Ryu's model on a hulking character like Necalli, it still looks "correct."

It all depends on how the engine was built, how the animation system was built, etc. In the case you are describing with Sheva and Jill, the engine probably enumerates bones and what bone goes where did not match between the two models, so it stretched things in to a horror show in order to make certain things "fit."
 
C

Comfort Jones

Banned
Finale Fireworker said:
I have a hard time believing you played PT.

PT is about a man (presumably Norman Reedus's character) who loses his job. Unable to find a new one - either due to economic hardship or his own predisposition to addiction - he wallows in prescription pills and alcohol. To his dissatisfaction, his wife takes a job at a grocery store to help pay the bills he is not paying. While there, she has an affair with her boss (or a male employee) and becomes pregant with his child.

In a frustrated frenzy, the main character murders his family (including his other children) and wanders off on a fugue, from the scene of the crime to his eventual entrance to Silent Hill.

The story contained in PT alone is a character study of the failure masculine identity. Not just in gendered expectations of the male lead (that he should support his family), but in the masculine inclination to violent problem solving. Norman Reedus is a man with no emotional toolkit who hides his feelings in substances and anger. Faced with the collapse of his roles as a husband and a father, he has a psychotic break and murders everyone he is responsible for.

You could write an entire thesis on what this says about how society conditions men to solve their problems. In fact, I know somebody did for a 400 level Women & Gender Studies class.

So if you don't think PT has meaning, or character, or story, you're just mistaken. It is all present on the text and there for the player to decode. You don't have to be a master of metaphor to listen to the voice on the radio.
Click to expand...

This sounds like speculation framed as if it was fact. Or is there something in the datamine I missed?
 
Y

yophlow

Banned
Finale Fireworker said:
The story contained in PT alone is a character study of the failure masculine identity. Not just in gendered expectations of the male lead (that he should support his family), but in the masculine inclination to violent problem solving. Norman Reedus is a man with no emotional toolkit who hides his feelings in substances and anger. Faced with the collapse of his roles as a husband and a father, he has a psychotic break and murders everyone he is responsible for.

You could write an entire thesis on what this says about how society conditions men to solve their problems. In fact, I know somebody did for a 400 level Women & Gender Studies class.
Click to expand...

Is it? Is that what the creators intended? Did they say "Let's make a character study of the failure of masculine identity"? Does Norman Reedus' character actually have no emotional toolkit? Or did everyone just come to those conclusions after playing the game?

I enjoyed PT. It was neat. It was fun. It has a tiny semblance of a story, which while playing through the game made no sense (probably because some of the triggers are so obscure and finicky it became an exercise in frustration trying to get to the end, at which point the radio stories had lost all impact). But if the story of a dude killing his family and a repetitive hallway = GOAT for some people, I feel like they are projecting their interpretations too much. My issue is that there is barely anything to interpret.

I'm really not trying to be combative, just expressing how I see it, which it pretty black and white. It sucks that the game was cancelled as the full thing could most definitely have been all that you expressed and more. But to say that PT achieved that alone is too big of a stretch for me.
 
K

KyleCross

Member
Comfort Jones said:
This sounds like speculation framed as if it was fact. Or is there something in the datamine I missed?
Click to expand...

Yeah, I always assumed anything if Norman's character wasn't completely unrelated to the family altogether then he was the son who talked about how "Dad was such a drag" and killed him, but he's coming back.

Aren't there pictures in the house clearly showing Lisa and her husband?
 
O

oni_saru

Member
Finale Fireworker said:
I have a hard time believing you played PT.

PT is about a man (presumably Norman Reedus's character) who loses his job. Unable to find a new one - either due to economic hardship or his own predisposition to addiction - he wallows in prescription pills and alcohol. To his dissatisfaction, his wife takes a job at a grocery store to help pay the bills he is not paying. While there, she has an affair with her boss (or a male employee) and becomes pregant with his child.

In a frustrated frenzy, the main character murders his family (including his other children) and wanders off on a fugue, from the scene of the crime to his eventual entrance to Silent Hill.

The story contained in PT alone is a character study of the failure masculine identity. Not just in gendered expectations of the male lead (that he should support his family), but in the masculine inclination to violent problem solving. Norman Reedus is a man with no emotional toolkit who hides his feelings in substances and anger. Faced with the collapse of his roles as a husband and a father, he has a psychotic break and murders everyone he is responsible for.

You could write an entire thesis on what this says about how society conditions men to solve their problems. In fact, I know somebody did for a 400 level Women & Gender Studies class.

So if you don't think PT has meaning, or character, or story, you're just mistaken. It is all present on the text and there for the player to decode. You don't have to be a master of metaphor to listen to the voice on the radio.
Click to expand...
This is a really interesting interpretation. Never thought of it as possibly Norman Reedus having a psychotic break and the players playing as he is in this state of fugue.

:O really interesting interpretation!
 
T

TheSeks

Blinded by the luminous glory that is David Bowie's physical manifestation.
KyleCross said:
Both P.T. and MGSV were Fox Engine games so they shared the same exact structure, so it's just a matter of throwing the model in there. Tho of course it's not 100% perfect because the rigging and animation is tweaked slightly on a per-model basis. Watch some of the mod videos where they replace Snake with one of the kids, it's hilarious.
Click to expand...

I'm waiting for someone to mod Norman Reedus as Venom, Skullface, Ocelot, Miller, and Quiet. (and Huey/Codetalker/Minor characters).

Norman Gear Reedus: The Phantom Actors
 
M

mr jones

Ethnicity is not a race!
I don't think that it's Norman's character who killed Lisa. The picture of them in the hallway looked like a different guy altogether.

GOD P.T. was scary as hell. Even viewing a walkthrough on YouTube puts me on edge.
 
B

boredandlazy

Member
Cmerrill said:
Lol, How does that make any sense? Claiming something is overrated = being a sociopath? Wow.

I think you're just projecting.
Click to expand...

Claiming something is overrated is making the assertion that only your viewpoint is correct and everyone who doesn't agree is wrong. That's narcissism.
 
B

boredandlazy

Member
Comfort Jones said:
Alright so if we ever call anything ever overrated we're narcissistic, got it dad.
Click to expand...

Well since you're taking the tone of a petulant child, sure. Call me dad.

Calling something overrated is being dismissive of people who rate something higher than you. I'd say that's a bit rude.
 
C

Comfort Jones

Banned
boredandlazy said:
Well since you're taking the tone of a petulant child, sure. Call me dad.

Calling something overrated is being dismissive of people who rate something higher than you. I'd say that's a bit rude.
Click to expand...

You realize when someone is saying they dislike something and think it isn't that good, that's just their opinion and they're totally entitled to that right?
 
B

boredandlazy

Member
Comfort Jones said:
You realize when someone is saying they dislike something and think it isn't that good, that's just their opinion and they're totally entitled to that right?
Click to expand...

Of course. But saying something is overrated is inferring that other people are wrong for rating it higher than you. Which is very different from simply stating that you don't like something.
 
C

Comfort Jones

Banned
boredandlazy said:
Of course. But saying something is overrated is inferring that other people are wrong for rating it higher than you. Which is very different from simply stating that you don't like something.
Click to expand...

If I said "I think PT isn't as good as people say it is" and "I think PT is overrated", those are both saying the same thing. When people make statements about something's quality inevitably the general consensus on said thing is going to be called into question. There's plenty of critics who have taken things to task for being overrated in their eyes, this is not narcissism.
 
Y

Yukinari

Member
Man if PS4 games like PT are being torn apart imagine whats gonna happen by the time Death Stranding is out.

Get ready to have Del Toro and Mads in MGS5.
 
F

Finale Fireworker

Member
yophlow said:
Is it? Is that what the creators intended? Did they say "Let's make a character study of the failure of masculine identity"? Does Norman Reedus' character actually have no emotional toolkit? Or did everyone just come to those conclusions after playing the game?

I enjoyed PT. It was neat. It was fun. It has a tiny semblance of a story, which while playing through the game made no sense (probably because some of the triggers are so obscure and finicky it became an exercise in frustration trying to get to the end, at which point the radio stories had lost all impact). But if the story of a dude killing his family and a repetitive hallway = GOAT for some people, I feel like they are projecting their interpretations too much. My issue is that there is barely anything to interpret.

I'm really not trying to be combative, just expressing how I see it, which it pretty black and white. It sucks that the game was cancelled as the full thing could most definitely have been all that you expressed and more. But to say that PT achieved that alone is too big of a stretch for me.
Click to expand...

My friend, and I say this very sincerely and not trying to sound like a jerk, but there is literally nothing less important to media analysis than authorial intent. Authorial intent is meaningless. What the author set out to achieve has zero bearing on art analysis or media criticism because what matters is what's on the screen, or on the page, or in the text. TS Eliot and co threw out authorial intent in 1941 and it hasn't been part of the literary interpretive process in practically a century.

Text stands alone. As soon as something is completed, whatever it says or doesn't say has little to do with what the author intended. A good author will make media that says exactly what they want it to, others intentionally leave their art ambiguous to benefit audience interpretation. But it is impossible to determine what an author intended in their projects, and even when they outright explain what they meant, sometimes they're still wrong. All you can do is interpret the art itself.

So saying that Kojima and Del Toro didn't mean for their story to be taken a certain way doesn't mean anything. You have to either offer an alternate interpretation or you are kind of just opting out of the conversation. You can't say the story means nothing and the author didn't intend it to mean anything. That's not exactly analysis. That's basically the opposite.

And that doesn't mean that any interpretation is valid. I can say that Super Mario is a coming of age story about a young man coming to terms with getting married and I would be wrong. There is nothing in the text of the game to support this analysis. This is conjecture and interpretation based on nothing. People who say The Land Before Time is about declining Soviet social classes or that Ferris Bueller is a hallucination are wrong. They are not making interpretations based on the text. They are inserting their fantasy in the gaps.

But if somebody makes an interpretation based on information present in the game itself - you have a valid interpretation. To invalidate it, you have to offer an alternate interpretation based on the same information. Which brings me to the next part of this post...

Comfort Jones said:
This sounds like speculation framed as if it was fact. Or is there something in the datamine I missed?
Click to expand...

These are all direct quotes from the game:

Radio Report said:
As the Congressional Debate over gun control flares up yet again, we regret to report the murder of the wife and her two children by their husband and father. The father purchased the rifle used in the crime at his local gunstore two days earlier. This brutal killing took place while the family was gathered at home on a Sunday afternoon. The day of the crime, the father went to the trunk of his car, retrieved the rifle, and shot his wife as she was cleaning up the kitchen after lunch. When his ten-year-old son came to investigate the commotion, the father shot him, too. His six-year-old daughter had the good sense to hide in the bathroom, but reports suggest he lured her out by telling her it was just a game. The girl was found shot once in the chest from point-blank range. The mother, who he shot in the stomach, was pregnant at the time. Police arriving on-scene after neighbors called 911 found the father in his car, listening to the radio. Several days before the murders, neighbors say they heard the father repeating a sequence of numbers in a loud voice. They said it was like he was chanting some strange spell. There was another family shot to death in the same state last month, and in December last year, a man used a rifle and meat cleaver to murder his entire family. In each case, the perpetrators were fathers. State police say the string of domestic homicides appears unrelated, though it could be part of a larger trend, such as employment, childcare, and other social issues facing the average family.
Click to expand...

Peephole said:
I've got message for all you folks down there in radio land. Now's the time for action. Our society is rotten to the core. I'm talking to all the fine, upstanding folks got their welfare cut, got their jobs pulled out from under 'em. Yeah, you! You know what to do! Now's the time! Do it!
Click to expand...

Hallway Bathroom said:
You got fired, so you drowned your sorrows in booze. She had to get a part-time job working a grocery store cash register. Only reason she could earn a wage at all is the manager liked how she looked in a skirt. You remember, right? Exactly ten months back.
Click to expand...

Ending Monologue said:
Dad was such a drag. Every day he'd eat the same kind of food, dress the same, sit in front of the same kind of games... Yeah, he was just that kind of guy. But then one day, he goes and kills us all! He couldn't even be original about the way he did it. I'm not complaining... I was dying of boredom anyway, But guess what? I will be coming back, and I'm bringing my new toys with me.
Click to expand...

And these are just the quotes. This is before you even make interpretations about the fetus in the sink, or the pills all over the desk, or the quotes about other versions of oneself and the undoing of reality, or gouging the eye out of the picture and the eyeless Lisa herself. This is before we even take into account everything we know about what Silent Hill is and how it populates itself with the demons of its visitor. Going only and exclusively on the information presented above, you have enough for an analysis.

PT is a story about economically impotent men mitigating their perceived failures with substances and escapism and, when they finally can't take it anymore, destroying their lives and loved ones with violence. This is a common core of domestic abuse cases and the well-documented masculine consequences of social patriarchy.

This is also the focus of a good documentary about the subject called The Mask You Live In, which is required reading when discussing problematic male problem solving and the internalization of their emotions.

Someday I'll make a thread with an entire analysis, since people who didn't play/don't like the game seem to overlook how incredibly dense the narrative of the game is.

But, no, PT is not a random sequence of meaningless events. The props have meaning. There is a character and there is a theme. Think of PT as a short-story - its readings and interpretations will often be longer than the source material. That's the benefit of short-stories: they are concise.
 
Embearded

Embearded

Member
Yukinari said:
Man if PS4 games like PT are being torn apart imagine whats gonna happen by the time Death Stranding is out.

Get ready to have Del Toro and Mads in MGS5.
Click to expand...

I think that they were able to import those models in MGSV because both games run on Foc Engine.
Death Stranding uses a different engine so i am not so sure about the portability of the models.
 
eso76

eso76

Member
Finale Fireworker said:
I have a hard time believing you played PT.

PT is about a man (presumably Norman Reedus's character) who loses his job. Unable to find a new one - either due to economic hardship or his own predisposition to addiction - he wallows in prescription pills and alcohol. To his dissatisfaction, his wife takes a job at a grocery store to help pay the bills he is not paying. While there, she has an affair with her boss (or a male employee) and becomes pregant with his child.

In a frustrated frenzy, the main character murders his family (including his other children) and wanders off on a fugue, from the scene of the crime to his eventual entrance to Silent Hill.
Click to expand...

It appears I didn't listen carefully to the radio (too busy shitting pants :p) as there are parts I absolutely didn't get.

I would be really curious to know how they were going to reveal it's the protagonist who murdered his family (if he really did). The game does seem to hint at that but it would kind of tell a similar story to that of Silent Hill 2 and it wouldn't be much of a twist since people already got that impression from the demo.

Questions that will never be answered : |
 
B

boredandlazy

Member
Comfort Jones said:
If I said "I think PT isn't as good as people say it is" and "I think PT is overrated", those are both saying the same thing.
Click to expand...
Well yes, the way you put it. They are the same thing. But I'm not putting it that way. What I am saying is that there's a fundamental difference between saying 'I don't rate that as high as you', and saying 'you rate that too high'. One is simply relating how much you like something against another's opinion, the other is telling the other person their opinion is wrong.
When people make statements about something's quality inevitably the general consensus on said thing is going to be called into question. There's plenty of critics who have taken things to task for being overrated in their eyes, this is not narcissism.
Click to expand...
I know it's a little bit of a stretch using the term 'narcissism' in this context. Maybe using the term 'basic' wasn't the best word to accompany it either. But in general people throw the term overrated around way too much, and it's usually used in a way in order to simply dismiss others' opinions, which gets on my nerves a little.
 
K

KyleCross

Member
SpookyFries said:
I don't know if I'm in the minority but I had assumed the end clip where Norman Reedus looks back was a prerendered video file but the datamine shows that it was in engine. From the Facepunch forums:

qovmqr.jpg

mlgzat.jpg


There are assets for the other models you see during that scene like the trees and light posts
Click to expand...

Interesting. Do we know for sure if the scene was real-time or did P.T. simply contain these various models that KojiPro didn't bother to remove (more common than you think)?
 
H

How About No

Member
Huh, I wonder if they can find the city scene in the files too

Finale Fireworker said:
PT is a story about economically impotent men mitigating their perceived failures with substances and escapism and, when they finally can't take it anymore, destroying their lives and loved ones with violence. This is a common core of domestic abuse cases and the well-documented masculine consequences of social patriarchy.

This is also the focus of a good documentary about the subject called The Mask You Live In, which is required reading when discussing problematic male problem solving and the internalization of their emotions.

Someday I'll make a thread with an entire analysis, since people who didn't play/don't like the game seem to overlook how incredibly dense the narrative of the game is.

But, no, PT is not a random sequence of meaningless events. The props have meaning. There is a character and there is a theme. Think of PT as a short-story - its readings and interpretations will often be longer than the source material. That's the benefit of short-stories: they are concise.
Click to expand...

...aaand you just made me miss Silent Hills in ways I didn't even know

:(

#fucKonami AGAIN
 
B

Bowl0l

Member
Finale Fireworker said:
My friend, and I say this very sincerely and not trying to sound like a jerk, but there is literally nothing less important to media analysis than authorial intent. Authorial intent is meaningless. What the author set out to achieve has zero bearing on art analysis or media criticism because what matters is what's on the screen, or on the page, or in the text. TS Eliot and co threw out authorial intent in 1941 and it hasn't been part of the literary interpretive process in practically a century.

Text stands alone. As soon as something is completed, whatever it says or doesn't say has little to do with what the author intended. A good author will make media that says exactly what they want it to, others intentionally leave their art ambiguous to benefit audience interpretation. But it is impossible to determine what an author intended in their projects, and even when they outright explain what they meant, sometimes they're still wrong. All you can do is interpret the art itself.

So saying that Kojima and Del Toro didn't mean for their story to be taken a certain way doesn't mean anything. You have to either offer an alternate interpretation or you are kind of just opting out of the conversation. You can't say the story means nothing and the author didn't intend it to mean anything. That's not exactly analysis. That's basically the opposite.

And that doesn't mean that any interpretation is valid. I can say that Super Mario is a coming of age story about a young man coming to terms with getting married and I would be wrong. There is nothing in the text of the game to support this analysis. This is conjecture and interpretation based on nothing. People who say The Land Before Time is about declining Soviet social classes or that Ferris Bueller is a hallucination are wrong. They are not making interpretations based on the text. They are inserting their fantasy in the gaps.

But if somebody makes an interpretation based on information present in the game itself - you have a valid interpretation. To invalidate it, you have to offer an alternate interpretation based on the same information. Which brings me to the next part of this post...



These are all direct quotes from the game:









And these are just the quotes. This is before you even make interpretations about the fetus in the sink, or the pills all over the desk, or the quotes about other versions of oneself and the undoing of reality, or gouging the eye out of the picture and the eyeless Lisa herself. This is before we even take into account everything we know about what Silent Hill is and how it populates itself with the demons of its visitor. Going only and exclusively on the information presented above, you have enough for an analysis.

PT is a story about economically impotent men mitigating their perceived failures with substances and escapism and, when they finally can't take it anymore, destroying their lives and loved ones with violence. This is a common core of domestic abuse cases and the well-documented masculine consequences of social patriarchy.

This is also the focus of a good documentary about the subject called The Mask You Live In, which is required reading when discussing problematic male problem solving and the internalization of their emotions.

Someday I'll make a thread with an entire analysis, since people who didn't play/don't like the game seem to overlook how incredibly dense the narrative of the game is.

But, no, PT is not a random sequence of meaningless events. The props have meaning. There is a character and there is a theme. Think of PT as a short-story - its readings and interpretations will often be longer than the source material. That's the benefit of short-stories: they are concise.
Click to expand...
Thanks for sharing the quotes. I only focused on getting out through out my play through.
 
Wishmaster92

Wishmaster92

Member
KyleCross said:
Oh shit! Just checked the Facepunch thread. Luxox has now mined out all the sound data and uploaded it and we now have unused dialogue as well!

"You! What did you do? Right in front of everyone. I'm putting this on the news, you psycho. Murderer."

"Send him on his way to heaven, by your own hand. It's not too late - if you act fast."
Click to expand...

oh my fucking god.... FUCK YOU KONAMI! FUCK YOU TO HELL!!!

I really wanted to play this game :(((

Must keep connecting death stranding to silent hills...it's the same game under different names, it has to be right guys???


...guys
 
D

Dusk Golem

A 21st Century Rockefeller
I just find the vocal audio fascinating, so I did collect it all into a single video to listen to in the future. Can find that here, but nice we got the voice stuff ripped. Nice to have a few clear things.

I still think Silent Hills was going to be about conspiracies and drug usage done by the government like Project MKUltra, hearing the audio clearly does help solidify that and there's a notable theme about water and water sources not being trustworthy. There's of course the direct line being about "Don't trust the tap water," but there's more subtle things like the line saying that the dad died hanging himself with a garden hose but it is whispered an umbilical cord in game and there's a seperate dialogue line saying by umbilical cord they kept in their garage, and how a variety of household appliances and things are literally leaking blood, the obvious being the hanging fridge but also the bag and other elements. There's a strong vibe I think a lot of it gives to the conspiracy theories of mind control and the 'nuclear family' from the mid 1900s, the radio host, the focus on twisted appliances, the decoded radio channel messages, the whole perfect family tragedy, and even the sort of puzzles in the demo... But that's just my theory.
 
G

guybrushfreeman

Unconfirmed Member
Dusk Golem said:
I just find the vocal audio fascinating, so I did collect it all into a single video to listen to in the future. Can find that here, but nice we got the voice stuff ripped. Nice to have a few clear things.

I still think Silent Hills was going to be about conspiracies and drug usage done by the government like Project MKUltra, hearing the audio clearly does help solidfy that and there's a notable theme about water and water sources not being trustworthy. The direct line being about "Don't trust the tap water," but there's more subtle things like saying that died hung himself with a garden hose but it is whispered an umbilical cord they kept in their garage, and how a variety of household appliances and things are literally leaking blood, the obvious being the hanging fridge but also the bag and other elements. There's a strong vibe I think a lot of it gives to the conspiracy theories of mind control and the 'nuclear family' from the mid 1900s, the radio host, the focus on twisted appliances, the decoded radio channel messages, the whole perfect family tragedy, and even the sort of puzzles in the demo... But that's just my theory.
Click to expand...

I thought I wanted to listen to that but it's creepier than I remembered. The new lines are really interesting. It's great people found all this stuff
 
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