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Nintendo Switch Dev Kit Stats Leaked? Cortex A57, 4GB RAM, 32GB Storage, Multi-Touch.
- Thread starter Robert at Zeboyd Games
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He's talking about how the phones have to power 2k screens instead of the 720p screen that Switch will have, therefore it be more power efficient than those phones. He's not comparing the graphics of them.
Yeah that's pretty unrealistic. Right?
Is possible, but not probable imho.
calc84maniac
Member
True, but that can be considered overhead not related to playing games, e.g. the power you spend when reading an e-book or something.
ChrisMahoney
Banned
PCs make up for it by being more powerful.I guess PC development must be very hard what with there being so many different CPUs out there that devs have to manually program tasks for their individual cores
Just look at any Uncharted dev tech talks
Schnozberry
Member
The Nvidia Shield Tablet had a 5200mAh battery and sold for a reasonable price, so 4300 isn't out of bounds. The other parts of the rumor make it sound like someone's fantasy, though.
Any title that cross play with PC would need to be designed to survive performance differences. Not everyone can afford them i7s or even i5s. The idea that every, or even the majority, of the PC gaming population belongs in the "master race" tier of hardware specs doesn't really match reality.
Steam hardware stats show over 40% of users only have dual core CPUs. Plus, Intel consumer CPUs still cap at four cores.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
Not in 2001, not in 2006, not in 2012, why would it be there in 2017? "After a dozen years of solid wi-fi use, it's important we add ethernet to our new non-stationary console."?
Thinking more about it, the only way all the info/rumours that we know make sense together is if there are 3 SM in the SoC. That would also match what Laura said about the devkit in October being more powerful than the ones in July (assuming July devkits were stock Jetson boards).
But I refuse to get my hopes up for now.
But I refuse to get my hopes up for now.
Skittzo0413
Member
The other way to possibly make sense of the fan part (at least) is that Laura seemed to hint that the "console mode" clock rates can actually be used in portable mode. Whether this is just a dev function or the end user can decide, I guess we have no idea at this point. But as someone who will use it primarily as a handheld around the house and near outlets, that's good to know.
Just worried about the fan running when playing games with intense motion controls...
The patent clearly allows for an ethernet connection to the dock, likely through a USB adapter, so that doesn't seem to be the reason. USB for everything seems a bit more convenient overall though, since you won't necessarily have any wasted ports if you don't want to use ethernet.
I would be very surprised if docked mode isn't docked only in the retail version. Just seems like a too complicated function and mainstream consumers wouldn't care about it if they could even be explained the difference. Especially if there is an extra fan in the dock its not a possibility.
It could also give developers an excuse to downprioritize mobile mode and just ask consumers to plug it in.
Skittzo0413
Member
Well this is coming from Laura seeming to suggest that the 3 hour battery life is for the "docked mode" performance, though she may not have meant that you can actually run the portable in docked mode without docking. If this is the case however, the "portable mode" might wind up being more like a "power-save" mode than a standard play mode.
That would seem to counter the idea mentioned by the patent, but it's worth remembering that the US patent was filed in June 2016 and the Japanese patent from which it claims priority was from June 2015, so a lot could have changed between then and now.
What needs 3SM to make sense? While there's still some room for speculation all seems quite explicable without resorting to a conspiracy "there is more secret power inside" theory.
Fan thermal solution can be attributed to fab node, or the simple fact that all cpu cores and gpu working at full load for long periods of time requires it even at those clocks.
In the case of the audible fan in dev kits as someone pointed earlier that doesn't imply that was overclocked by itself.
baguetteness
Neo Member
The fan could be there so when you use the switch while recharing (out of the dock) you can play at full speed. Maybe the downclock only takes place while using the batteries.
While docked the fan on the portable unit would keep quiet to avoid overuse.
While docked the fan on the portable unit would keep quiet to avoid overuse.
Thraktor summed it up better:
http://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=226861686&highlight=#post226861686
At those clocks with 2 SM and 4 CPU cores there is simply not enough heat generated to require a fan in handheld mode and the power draw is really small.
We got several people confirming the specs in the OP of this thread including Emily based on (assuming) devkits from July. Which are now partially confirmed and partially contradicted by DF.
We got now Laura saying that October devkits are more powerful than July ones. So you have 2 scenarios: DF reported on July devkit which would be strange given the timing of the report but it would also mean that things have changed meanwhile or DF reported on October devkits meaning that the July devkits were even more underpowered and it would be quite amazing that no dev complained about them. Handheld mode is already at Wii U level, imagine being even lower in July.
3 SM would explain the whole situation better. But as I said, I don't want to necessarily believe in this scenario, because it can also be the case that Nintendo fucked something in Switch design that makes it not being very good at cooling.
Still I don't really think one can say with straight face that the whole situation is not strange, knowing how TX1 can perform in real devices.
Docked mode is pretty much guaranteed to only work when plugged on the dock because that's the only charger that is guaranteed to output the necessary power to both run the system at full clock and charge it at the same time, something the cheap 3rd party chargers people will inevitably purchase won't do.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Can we connect it to a GameCube to unlock boost power?
The secret port is going to be used finally!
You need TWO GameCubes for extra power, obviously
LordOcidax
Member
Make sure to use the advance link cable.
DrROBschiz
Member
I want Crystal Chronicle and Four Swords remakes damnit
Skittzo0413
Member
In Laura's AMA on Reddit she seemed to hint that games can be played at the docked clock rates even when portable and not on any power supply:
Source
It may wind up being the developer's choice regarding whether or not each game does this. If you get 3 hours of battery life for a game which needs docked clock speeds even to render at 720p, then it seems like it's probably worth it to do so. 3 hours isn't all that bad.
EDIT: I think this the most interesting development from the AMA, although the October devkit info is also intriguing. But this is seemingly indicating that, instead of a developer having to lock into 720p for handheld mode and 1080p for docked mode, they could choose to do 720p for both using the same clock speeds. This could be a way to get much more demanding games onto the system, as you essentially go from a 156GFLOPS* system to a 400GFLOPS* system by ignoring the portable mode clock speeds. This would also explain why a fan is necessary in the portable. Hopefully it's constructed well, since a fan running in a portable seems like a recipe for disaster to me.
*Still assuming 2SMs. October devkit info may indicate more?
Eolz
Member
Forgot it was in the patent. Hopefully they'll make a dock with it.
GC VC!
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
The dock has no additional processing hardware. It's just a stabilised power supply. Thus, in theory, there's no reason a portable Switch couldn't run at docked speeds as the hardware is identical in both scenarios. The power draw however would hit the battery life hard.
Seems like a very un Nintendo like decision to me so I dont know if I quite believe it. Does the game box say "3 hour battery" or "5 - 8 hour battery"?
DrROBschiz
Member
Skittzo0413
Member
If Laura's info is accurate this would mean about ~3 hours of battery life in that mode. Which seems pretty reasonable for this type of handheld, no?
Does the box (game or hardware) ever say anything about battery life? Are there official numbers given for battery life for any of their previous handhelds?
Xdrive05
Member
I really hope this rumor/leak/speculation is true about docked speeds being available in portable mode at developer discretion. The only downside would be that docked mode is less likely to "guarantee 1080p" if you will. But I would absolutely take the ability for devs to have 400gf as the absolute LCD for their game, and not also be required to have fully capable version running at 150 as well.
And if it can do 3 hours at 400gf then that's basically amazing in my opinion, and detractors should consider what they're asking of this device given the capabilities.
But the more pessimistic parts of me are still expecting the mandatory downclock in portable mode and getting 3 hours + at those speeds. Expectations, folks. Keep them in line.
And if it can do 3 hours at 400gf then that's basically amazing in my opinion, and detractors should consider what they're asking of this device given the capabilities.
But the more pessimistic parts of me are still expecting the mandatory downclock in portable mode and getting 3 hours + at those speeds. Expectations, folks. Keep them in line.
Leaving it at developer's discretion would be a terrible move because then everyone will just target the higher power mode. It would make it harder for developers if they did want to target low power mode because then they'd get criticized for their game not looking/performing as good as competitors.
Skittzo0413
Member
Right. If this is true it would probably be only Nintendo's first party developers taking advantage of the portable clock speed. It could be that her info about this is just from the previous devkits, and the new clock speed info comes with the "mandate" essentially that when portable, clock speeds have to be portable clock speed.
Yeah, if it portable clocks were mandated but users had the choice to manually override it that's one thing but allowing games to run only at the higher clocks sounds not good for consumers.
None of their previous hardware has had game dependent variations to this degree. All previous hardware has only had one specified clock speed.
Xdrive05
Member
And therein lies the debate. I can see both sides.
I think it comes down to how aggressively Nintendo is planning to court 3rd parties with Switch. I'm sure they would love the high clock baseline for their PS4/XBO ports. You know, checking off the tick box that says "and here is the low rent portable version of our PS4 game that's fairly comparable at 720p, satisfying the platform gimmick of console gaming on the go" - and doing nothing more.
Given Nintendo's history I'm inclined to think they'll force the lower clocks in portable mode and expect 3rd parties to deal with it.
Skittzo0413
Member
I don't think giving users the choice to override makes much sense. If the clock speed difference is primarily for achieving the 720p>1080p transition, then what do you really gain from choosing the higher clock speed? Slightly sharper IQ due to supersampling?
Ehh if anything Nintendo has a history of not enforcing platform features. Overall I don't think there would be much difference in developers willing to target 150gflops vs 400Gflops and I think it would be unwise to kneecap the platform unnecessarily.
Well we know at least that UE4 does more than drop the resolution. It also decreases the quality of the effects(and textures?).
lwilliams3
Member
I doubt Nintendo would do this for another reason. The increase of GPU power is mainly about rendering a game to a higher resolution (generally 720p to 1080p going by the ratio of change), so allowing that power in handheld mode will not allow it to be used that way. I guess there could a third option mode that allows the user to pick what gets modified in docked mode, but that gives devs more pressure and it sounds very un-Nintendo.
Skittzo0413
Member
I do agree with this that it would definitely complicate the system. But it seems to be something which Laura heard, at least for some version of the devkit.
I think the majority of that 2.5x clock increase would be dedicated to the resolution though. So you'd get modest gains in effects, texture quality and post-processing, one would think.
Well what I'm suggesting is that some developers can choose not to target the lower power mode at all, and just target the docked clock rates. This would mean their game would be the same resolution in both modes (likely 720p) and have the exact same visuals. This would decrease the work those developers need to do too, as they'd only have to target a single performance level.
Of course this would complicate things like battery life and when the fan is running, and overall seems to go counter to the whole purpose of the device, but it appears Laura heard something like this, at least for one of the devkit revisions.
Skittzo0413
Member
I think that was lherre, who said he hadn't heard of separate performance targets.
I remember specifically because I was having trouble figuring out if his user name was with a lowercase L or an upper case I until I copy/pasted it into google haha
UnemployedVillain
Member
What history? You're talking like Nintendo is still run by Yamauchi, where they intentionally gimped 3rd parties to maintain their own game's superiority. Nintendo didn't mandate 3rd parties use the wiimote, or 3D on that 3DS and even had a high RAM mode they could activate. They have no recent history that would suggest what you're saying
ecosse_011172
Junior Member
I hope it would be in the dock, i.e. the stationery console now that they're using some modern tech.
They've saved that 5 cents per unit I suppose.
Polygonal_Sprite
Gold Member
I think we'll see a lot of the more demanding third party games render at 720p in docked mode.
It won't though, simple as that, not at the rumoured handheld clocks.
Also nothing magical or conspiratory about a different SM config in a custom chip either.
I don't think it's crazy to want an Internet connection with lower latency, faster internet connection that isn't susceptible to interference to be built into the Switch dock. I guess I'll just have to keep using the ugly USB Ethernet adapter I got for my Wii so Nintendo can save a little bit of money.
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