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[Mr-Joker]

Stop watching after number 1 as I know that he's wrong in that department, like Rare selling themselves to Microsoft and rushing StarFox Adventure just to get away from Miyamoto.

So this guy is essentially the Stan Lee of Nintendo? A smiling, fun, beloved mascot for the entire company, but actually an idea-stealing prick in private?

Only if you believe Larry youtube video as the gospel truth and don't do any research yourselves.

Surprised Larry didn't include Miyamoto stealing spherical world from Insomniac for Mario Galaxies and rounded the list to 5.

Even if he did he would still be wrong as Sonic Adventure 2 had spherical world which predates both.

Not that Nintendo stole ideas when creating Mario Galaxy.

 

[Nicky Ali]

haha, I think the Yoshi's Island fiasco is just the case of a man being really passionate about his craft and not conforming to what people want, more than anything.

 

[Dremark]

Even if he did he would still be wrong as Sonic Adventure 2 had spherical world which predates both.

Not that Nintendo stole ideas when creating Mario Galaxy.

IIRC someone from Insomniac said that Mario Galaxy might have taken some inspiration from the spherical worlds in one of the Ratchet and Clank games so of course that got morphed into them claiming that Miyamoto ripped them off entirely.

For some reason any quote from anyone related to Sony at that time had to be turned into something massively off base. Here's the quote below:

There's evidence all around us I think, of certain games that have borrowed from Ratchet and Clank. One that we're even extremely flattered by is Super Mario Galaxy, with their spherical worlds; we did spherical worlds in Going Commando, and Up Your Arsenal. It would be amazing to think that Miyamoto-san thought that was so cool that he wanted to incorporate it into Mario Galaxy. Granted, he's doing it in a different way, but it's still a spherical world, so it's flattering to see those sorts of things.

So arrogant of him to think he might have borrowed a concept.

 

[Oblivion]

IIRC someone from Insomniac said that Mario Galaxy might have taken some inspiration from the spherical worlds in one of the Ratchet and Clank games so of course that got morphed into them claiming that Miyamoto ripped them off entirely.

For some reason any quote from anyone related to Sony at that time had to be turned into something massively off base. Here's the quote below:



So arrogant of him to think he might have borrowed a concept.

You talkin' about that PC game?

 

[jay]

IIRC someone from Insomniac said that Mario Galaxy might have taken some inspiration from the spherical worlds in one of the Ratchet and Clank games so of course that got morphed into them claiming that Miyamoto ripped them off entirely.

For some reason any quote from anyone related to Sony at that time had to be turned into something massively off base. Here's the quote below:



So arrogant of him to think he might have borrowed a concept.

Insomniac stole the idea of spheres from Sonic 3s bonus levels. Therefore Yuji Naka is the main designer of Mario Galaxy.

 

[Instro]

Miyamoto, and a few others in the company, strike me as people that never should have gotten into the upper management level positions within Nintendo.

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

Nintendo steals from Nintendo.

 

[Dr. Zoidberg]

Croc came out about 15 months after Mario 64 so the notion that Miyamoto stole the idea and made the game so far ahead of Croc's release leads me to take this with a huge grain of salt (more like a huge mound).

Not to mention that despite the extra time Argonaut's game looks and plays far worse than SM64. What a Croc!

 

[funkystudent]

Isnt it pretty well known that Miyamoto is pretty stone cold ruthless behind the scenes compared to his more lovable grandad of video games public image?


Not sure u trust the Croc story though. I remember liking that game tho

 

[Xiaoki]

Isnt it pretty well known that Miyamoto is pretty stone cold ruthless behind the scenes compared to his more lovable grandad of video games public image?

Well, yeah.

But its Miyamoto. Miyamoto!

So, everyone gives him the benefit of the doubt because its Miyamoto. Miyamoto!

I have a feeling this thread would have a VERY different tone if it was about Randy Pitchford instead.

 

[Boards of Canada]

The real reason Star Fox 2 was cancelled is because it was terrible. Dylan and Jez will never understand this.

 

[Nairume]

Well, yeah.

But its Miyamoto. Miyamoto!

So, everyone gives him the benefit of the doubt because its Miyamoto. Miyamoto!

I have a feeling this thread would have a VERY different tone if it was about Randy Pitchford instead.

Well, yeah.

When you take one guy who has built up a positive reputation over a decades long career of being involved in some of gaming's most important moments and another that has built a poor reputation for bullshitting, you are going to get people acting differently.

Of course, should similar charges be levied against Pitchford that were as easily disprove as some of this stuff, I would hope we could step back and acknowledge that. It's not like we need to invent reasons he's an ass anyway.

 

[Übersandvich]

they spell it out themselves. royalties would be paid upon sale of the game

I see that I misinterpreted, I (naively) thought the royalties thing that Miyamoto was quoted on was some sort of good faith act after all was said and done.

The FX technology wasn't even fully owned by Argonaut if I recall, instead Nintendo made A/N Software (joint venture company) that divided the FX cartridge technology royalties. The game code was different, and was owned by Nintendo though.

So did Nintendo pay Argonaut at all to make Starfox 2?

 

[MisterHero]

Well, yeah.

But its Miyamoto. Miyamoto!

So, everyone gives him the benefit of the doubt because its Miyamoto. Miyamoto!

I have a feeling this thread would have a VERY different tone if it was about Randy Pitchford instead.

The mob would still be wrong whoever it was.

 

[TS-08]

Well, yeah.

But its Miyamoto. Miyamoto!

So, everyone gives him the benefit of the doubt because its Miyamoto. Miyamoto!

I have a feeling this thread would have a VERY different tone if it was about Randy Pitchford instead.

But maybe what that means is that people are giving Miyamoto the benefit of the doubt and looking at these things critically rather than just believing them, which is probably a good thing. Your point may say more about how we treat accusations against those who have a lower profile than how we treat them against someone like Miyamoto.

 

[MisterR]

Well, yeah.

But its Miyamoto. Miyamoto!

So, everyone gives him the benefit of the doubt because its Miyamoto. Miyamoto!

I have a feeling this thread would have a VERY different tone if it was about Randy Pitchford instead.

Naughty Dog get called thieves and all kinds of awful things because they had a piece of placeholder art from another game in a trailer. Can you imagine if they'd done any of this?

 

[Glowsquid]

re the DKC point: The guy who made the supposed Electronic Games Interview transcripted it in his book The Ultimate History of Video Games: From Pong to Pokemon--The Story Behind the Craze That Touched Our Lives and Changed the World, here's the full thing:

An interesting story lies behind Yoshi's Island. When Shigeru Miyamoto first demonstrated the game to Nintendo's marketing department, it was rejected because it had Mario-related graphics rather than the waxy, prerendered graphics of Donkey Kong Country. Rather than change to an artistic look he did not like, Miyamoto made the game even more cartoon-like, giving it a hand-drawn look. The second version was accepted

Miyamoto, who is rightfully proud of his work, was offended that the first version was rejected. That same month, I interviewed Miyamoto and Tim Stamper, creator of Donkey Kong Country, together and noticed that Miyamoto was a bit hard on Stamper, making such statements as "Donkey Kong Country proves that players will put up with mediocre gameplay as long as the art is good."

In a later interview, Miyamoto admitted that Yoshi's Island had been a touchy subject at the time:

I think that it happened after Donkey Kong Country was introduced. In comparison with the graphics of the Super Donkey Kong, there was not enough punch to Yoshi's Island. That was what I was told by the marketing people.

I intensified my hand-drawn touch on Yoshi's Island from the initial part of the program. Everybody else was saying that they wanted better hardware and more beautiful graphics instead of this art.

Even while I was working on the Super Mario World, I was thinking that the next hero should be Yoshi. Other people have created games based upon Yoshi. . . . Yoshi's World Hunters, Yoshi's Egg, Yoshi's Cookie, and so forth--games that I don't really like. So I decided that I should make an authentic Yoshi game.

(and only now do I noticed Lary posted it in full in the video description, fucking hell)

As you can see, the context of the quote is seriously odd (why would Miyamoto insult a business partner like that?), which makes me think something was lost in translation, Kent or whoever translated Miyamoto "punched up" the statement or Kent misunderstood friendly ribbing as being 100% serious. Edit I realize this is all opinions and definitely not proof the reporting is fake, though.

For what it's worth, in an interview Retrogamer magazine did with Gregg Mayles (DKC's lead designer) in 2010 had Mayles saying Miyamoto was actually one of the people who approved of DKC when he went to demo it at Nintendo's HQ (it was Gunpei Yokoi who didn't like it)

https://www.nowgamer.com/the-making-of-donkey-kong-country/

Nintendo is known to be extremely shielding towards its IPs, so handing over one of its most iconic franchises is something that you’d expect would attract a tremendous amount of protocol and interference from the game giant, but Gregg says this wasn’t the case.

“Nintendo were extremely busy at the time so we were left to ourselves,” he says. “It was an unprecedented thing for them to do, entrusting one of their most prominent and fondly remembered IP’s with a relatively small and unknown UK development house. I was young and naive enough not to realise just how crucial this game was for Rare – all I wanted to do was create a game that could be remembered. Miyamoto provided us with some suggestions for DK’s look and it was a sketch of his that included the tie.”

[...]

We made a memorable visit to Nintendo’s HQ in Japan. I was surprisingly calm at the time, despite it being my first visit to what many would class as the Mecca of videogames,” says Gregg. “We were there to demo an early version of the game to the people that created the original character. It was the first time many of the people at Nintendo had seen the game, and our radical approach with the graphics didn’t initially go down too well. Mr Yokoi [Game Boy creator] remarked that ‘It looked too 3D’. Miyamoto was much quicker to appreciate what we had done and gave his approval. Mr Miyamoto and his staff used their unparalleled experience to give us some input on how we could smooth out a few rough edges and suggested that DK would look good with a hand-slap move. We thought this would be cool too, so even though we were only a few weeks away from the deadline we included it.”

 

[SinCityAssassin]

I haven't heard about Gunpei not liking it. That one is news to me.

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

So did Nintendo pay Argonaut at all to make Starfox 2?

Argonaut didn't make Star Fox 2. Nintendo contracted Argonaut to develop the FX technology. Nintendo additionally contracted 5 programmers from Argonaut to work inside Nintendo and help develop games using the technology. Those programmers were paid as contractors directly by Nintendo.

The entire Star Fox 2 development team (Nintendo EAD and the additional 3 contract game programmers) were paid for their work. Argonaut specifically didn't see any technology royalties because the FX chip wasn't manufactured since the game wasn't officially released.

Argonaut doesn't own any game code because Dylan Cuthbert, Kristen Wombell, Giles Goddard and Colin Reed were all contract employees working for Nintendo. Goddard and Reed even stayed working full time for Nintendo for several years after, while Cuthbert and Wombell found new ventures.

Argonaut only has ties to developing the FX technology chip that powered the technology. All the FX technology games that's Argonaut tried to develop on their own and pitch to Nintendo were rejected.

 

[Forkball]

A lot of dubious claims. No doubt Miyamoto is probably a hard ass behind the scenes at times, but saying that Croc was the primary inspiration for their flagship title on the N64? He can dream.

One of the most memorable "WTF Miyamoto" stories is that he didn't like Mario swinging Bowser by his tail and wanted it taken out. That's easily one of the most memorable moments in the game.

 

[alfredofroylan]

I want a similar top, but with Hideo Kojima.

 

[jdmonmou]

Miyamoto, and a few others in the company, strike me as people that never should have gotten into the upper management level positions within Nintendo.

Yeah, there have been multiple head scratching decisions made by Nintendo over the years. So many missed opportunities. This company has been stubbornly wrong about so many things.

 

[Laughing Banana]

Well, yeah.

But its Miyamoto. Miyamoto!

So, everyone gives him the benefit of the doubt because its Miyamoto. Miyamoto!

I have a feeling this thread would have a VERY different tone if it was about Randy Pitchford instead.

Naughty Dog get called thieves and all kinds of awful things because they had a piece of placeholder art from another game in a trailer. Can you imagine if they'd done any of this?

What's with you people acting like you are completely dissatisfied unless all of us crucify Miyamoto or something? Based on 'facts' from a YouTuber that many in here have explained may not necessarily be the truth, even. And why would you bring out ND of all things? Lol, maybe stop acting like a total fanboy, yeah? Sheeesh.

 

[Yukinari]

Flipping tea tables over trivial things and forcing bad gimmicks into games have made me sour on Miyamoto. It honestly has me worried about Pikmin 4.

 

[Foldedpencil]

I'm not sure how many of these accusations relate to Miyamoto personally. I know he is a big player at nintendo, but could he really cancel games like that? Also, if he "stole" code, then there would be legal recourse. More likely, the nature of the contract allowed nintendo to take the code (I could be wrong). Still, these allegations paint nintendo in a pretty typical corporate light.

 

[ElFly]

I see that I misinterpreted, I (naively) thought the royalties thing that Miyamoto was quoted on was some sort of good faith act after all was said and done.

So did Nintendo pay Argonaut at all to make Starfox 2?

prolly not? maybe they paid them enough for everyone's wages so the company they were working with would not go under but it is all speculation. that they would get royalties at all is interesting as an outsourcing job is normally paid on deliverables being delivered, and once it is all finished, royalties are not a given

e: or as shikamaru ninja puts it, argonaut people were just subcontracted by nintendo, but everything they did while in that position is nintendo's

 

[MisterR]

What's with you people acting like you are completely dissatisfied unless all of us crucify Miyamoto or something? Based on 'facts' from a YouTuber that many in here have explained may not necessarily be the truth, even. And why would you bring out ND of all things? Lol, maybe stop acting like a total fanboy, yeah? Sheeesh.

The irony is thick.

 

[Foldedpencil]

Argonaut didn't make Star Fox 2. Nintendo contracted Argonaut to develop the FX technology. Nintendo additionally contracted 5 programmers from Argonaut to work inside Nintendo and help develop games using the technology. Those programmers were paid as contractors directly by Nintendo.

The entire Star Fox 2 development team (Nintendo EAD and the additional 3 contract game programmers) were paid for their work. Argonaut specifically didn't see any technology royalties because the FX chip wasn't manufactured since the game wasn't officially released.

Argonaut doesn't own any game code because Dylan Cuthbert, Kristen Wombell, Giles Goddard and Colin Reed were all contract employees working for Nintendo. Goddard and Reed even stayed working full time for Nintendo for several years after, while Cuthbert and Wombell found new ventures.

Argonaut only has ties to developing the FX technology chip that powered the technology. All the FX technology games that's Argonaut tried to develop on their own and pitch to Nintendo were rejected.

Thank you, that was very informative!

 

[Dremark]

Insomniac stole the idea of spheres from Sonic 3s bonus levels. Therefore Yuji Naka is the main designer of Mario Galaxy.

Yes, saying someone might have taken inspiration from something else is exactly the same as claiming plagiarism and any minor similarity of any sort makes the offender creatively bankrupt and all credit should go to whoever demonstrated the abstract concept first.

This is clearly the logical way to go about things not the over reaction of moronic fanboys.

 

[Orin GA]

Miyamoto ran over my dog. I mean i didnt see it nor do i have proof but thats what happened.

Discuss.....

 

[Ban Puncher]

Miyamoto ran over my dog. I mean i didnt see it nor do i have proof but thats what happened.

Discuss.....

Are you a YouTube 'Influencer'?

This is very important.

 

[Orin GA]

Are you a YouTube 'Influencer'?

This is very important.

Is this enough cred?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lq5OR-wuiHc

 

[The Albatross]

--Argonaut were developing a Yoshi game, they got let go and they used the code for Croc, to be the first 3D platformer, and Miyamoto harnessed their ideas and SF2/Yoshi code and got to market first, then said "too bad" to Argonaut and denied them royalties.

I had no idea that's why Croc was so similar to Super Mario 64. I always thought Croc, which was a great 3D platformer, was copying Mario 64's successful aspects, but was always impressed how well that team did that.

 

[Ban Puncher]

Is this enough cred?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lq5OR-wuiHc

MIYAMOTO EXPOSED AS A DOG KILLING CUNT!!

DONATE TO THIS PERSON'S PATREON ASAP!!

 

[stuminus3]

The Body Harvest thing lines up with the stories a developer friend of mine used to tell (though it was always "Nintendo", not Miyamoto specifically, but I guess that's a moot point)... lost touch with him over the years though so feel free to ignore me.

I don't doubt Nintendo's public and corporate faces are very different either way. That's just how business is.

 

[Candescence]

I had no idea that's why Croc was so similar to Super Mario 64. I always thought Croc, which was a great 3D platformer, was copying Mario 64's successful aspects, but was always impressed how well that team did that.

... Did we play the same game? I completed Croc as a kid and even I realize it was a shitty platformer in hindsight, and it was certainly nothing like Mario 64. Tank controls, ugh.

 

[Laughing Banana]

The irony is thick.

Not really, especially considering that many in here has outlined many good reasons as to why people shouldnt believe the video without reservation.

Though I agree that there is something thick in here alright. Don't worry though, I do consider ND as a great dev so you dont need to lose any tears about it

 

[Coxy]

Given his history with Ikegami I'm inclined to believe all this, I'm surprised that wasnt one on the list

 

[Celine]

A lot of this is [citation needed] and seems like speculation. Rare sold themselves to Microsoft because Shiggy pissed them off? Really? That's not how business works.

Of course not.
Rare had a good relationship with Nintendo anyway.

If you want to watch a rare interview with the Stamper bros just after MS acquisition, it's interesting:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6CPaTkrOWs

 

[Dr.Hadji]

Flipping tea tables over trivial things and forcing bad gimmicks into games have made me sour on Miyamoto. It honestly has me worried about Pikmin 4.

Why? Pikmin 3 is fantastic.

 

[Blobbers]

wait, that Donkey Kong quote is actually true?

 

[gogojira]

That's it, hand over that SM64 legacy to Croc. Fucking lol.

 

[Laevateinn]

Nintendo steals from Nintendo.

Nintendo invented the circle confirmed.

 

[bishopcruz]

I don't find the 'debunking' of the DKC quote by people in this thread particularly convincing. Steven Kent is highly respected, and not one to make up quotes, and an interview, some 15 years later, saying Miyamoto was cool with the graphics doesn't change that fact. He may have been having a bad day, or whatever, but I don't see a reason to doubt him throwing shade when DKCs success was causing him problems, at least internally.

Not to mention these interviews should be taken within the context of the time when they were given. That Naka/Miyamoto one quoted earlier in the thread seems nice, but we have multiple sources that talk about how he pretty much wanted to crush the guy back in the day. Feelings change, and they respect each other now, but it's been over 20 years since Sonic vs Mario was an actual thing.

As for the Mario 64 stuff, that one is a bit odd, though Croc coming out after the fact, or being a worse game doesn't mean that their ideas weren't taken, or what have you. Though I could have sworn I read interviews back in the day that Miyamoto didn't want to show his games too early anymore because games, Croc included, stole ideas from Mario 64 after it was first shown. I'll have to see if I can find that interview, or a refernce to it, but I'm pretty sure I'm not crazy.

 

[CrustyBritches]

Even if he did he would still be wrong as Sonic Adventure 2 had spherical world which predates both.

Sonic 3 on Genesis had a spherical/3d world as the special stage.

^^^Beat to the punch.

 

[Jawbreaker]

I don't find the 'debunking' of the DKC quote by people in this thread particularly convincing. Steven Kent is highly respected, and not one to make up quotes, and an interview, some 15 years later, saying Miyamoto was cool with the graphics doesn't change that fact. He may have been having a bad day, or whatever, but I don't see a reason to doubt him throwing shade when DKCs success was causing him problems, at least internally.

Not to mention these interviews should be taken within the context of the time when they were given. That Naka/Miyamoto one quoted earlier in the thread seems nice, but we have multiple sources that talk about how he pretty much wanted to crush the guy back in the day. Feelings change, and they respect each other now, but it's been over 20 years since Sonic vs Mario was an actual thing.

As for the Mario 64 stuff, that one is a bit odd, though Croc coming out after the fact, or being a worse game doesn't mean that their ideas weren't taken, or what have you. Though I could have sworn I read interviews back in the day that Miyamoto didn't want to show his games too early anymore because games, Croc included, stole ideas from Mario 64 after it was first shown. I'll have to see if I can find that interview, or a refernce to it, but I'm pretty sure I'm not crazy.

Maybe he was projecting. : p

 

[Lutherian]

As for the Mario 64 stuff, that one is a bit odd, though Croc coming out after the fact, or being a worse game doesn't mean that their ideas weren't taken, or what have you. Though I could have sworn I read interviews back in the day that Miyamoto didn't want to show his games too early anymore because games, Croc included, stole ideas from Mario 64 after it was first shown. I'll have to see if I can find that interview, or a refernce to it, but I'm pretty sure I'm not crazy.

Maybe Nintendo got some hot stuff from Argonauts, but the only thing Argonauts should've "stole" from Mario 64 : not using tank controls in a 3D plateformer.

 

[Man-is-Obsolete]

On the last EZA podcast a listener emailed a game they played where they had to pick the real Miyamoto quote between one fake and one real quote and it was hilarious and illuminating.

Gonna have to watch this now for an even better look behind the curtain.

 

[Red Devil]

Flipping tea tables over trivial things and forcing bad gimmicks into games have made me sour on Miyamoto. It honestly has me worried about Pikmin 4.

That's assuming the games would haven't been "bad" either way and Pikmin 4 is probably another case of a game existing because of Miyamoto at the end of the day.

 

[Ridley327]

The Body Harvest thing lines up with the stories a developer friend of mine used to tell (though it was always "Nintendo", not Miyamoto specifically, but I guess that's a moot point)... lost touch with him over the years though so feel free to ignore me.

I don't doubt Nintendo's public and corporate faces are very different either way. That's just how business is.

It's been clear for a long time that Body Harvest was always doomed when Nintendo was publishing it. What Nintendo wanted out of the project was completely at odds with what DMA Design wanted out of it, and it never seemed like that there was ever going to be any middle ground.