EmilioLargo
Member
Those 1080p screens look sharper to me. You find more screens/impressions at http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1330726
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All PS4 Pro enhanced games (native support and boosted)
- Thread starter Liabe Brave
- Start date
Those 1080p screens look sharper to me. You find more screens/impressions at http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1330726
Liabe Brave
Member
Wow, quick work chandoog! Is there an in-game toggle to switch between 1080p and 4K modes, or did you have to force this with the OS?
I've gone through the shots and...well, it's a mixed bag. First the bad news: in 1080p mode, there is no downsampling. This looks like a native 1080p image with some minimal post-process AA, exactly as Diablo III has always been on standard PS4.
Second, in 4K mode certain elements of the UI are upscaled, not rendered higher. This is basically all the art--so the gauges and quickbar icons in the lower left, plus button prompts wherever they occur. (Much the same was done in the God of War PS3 remasters some years back.)
Now the good news, starting with the fact that the rest of the UI is in native 4K. This includes all text, as well as polygonal stuff such as quest markers and the like.
How about the game itself in 4K mode? My ultimate conclusion is that's it's rendering in native 4K. But this is tough to be certain about. First, individual moving elements in Diablo III are small onscreen, which is less opportunity for checkerboard artifacts to appear in screenshots. So perhaps it's actually 2160c instead of 2160p.
Second, despite the higher resolution the 4K image is actually quite soft. Not just edges but also textures are affected, by what appears to be very aggressive post-process AA. (AA is stronger at 4K than it is at 1080p!) This makes lines so blurry that on first glance I thought the game was simply upscaled rather than rendered at higher res. Given my difficulty pixel counting, there's a chance it's lower than full 4K, maybe 1800p with a little upscaling contributing to the smoothness.
But I'm just covering my bases. My hunch is that Pro is rendering the game and lots of the UI at native 4K, with some UI stuff upscaled from 1080p. On a 1080p display, the game is probably identical to standard PS4. Absent new evidence, this is what I'll post in the OP.
Thanks to everyone for helping!
This thread encouraged me to buy ABZÛ when it was on sale recently. That game is beautiful O.O What a wonderful experience! Very pleased they could add more fish per school on top of the res bump.
edit* on the D3 talk. The best way to tell if theres any downsampling is to look at the characters (character select screen is good for this) Because of the art style and engine you won't notice much of a difference in the terrain I find. So judging off some quick screens I seen it looked like the AA was better for sure at least. Couple people have mentioned it in the other thread as well.
edit* on the D3 talk. The best way to tell if theres any downsampling is to look at the characters (character select screen is good for this) Because of the art style and engine you won't notice much of a difference in the terrain I find. So judging off some quick screens I seen it looked like the AA was better for sure at least. Couple people have mentioned it in the other thread as well.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
There's no toggle, the images were just captured in different resolutions. I ran the game at 4K itself, not 1080p.
I took a few with screen share settings to 1080p PNG for general sharing like I always do, and then changed the screen share settings to 4K JPG's (cause 4K PNG's become 10+ MB) for uploading since you mentioned earlier 4K screens will be better for determining actual resolution. There's no in-game toggle or anything like that, hopefully that helps.
Liabe Brave
Member
Cool, thanks! I can reconfirm from the 4K shots that Mafia 3 is 1440p. This probably looks better downscaled than upscaled, and the 1080p shots seem to show that. There's some less than sharp stuff in there--the reflections, or wet stone and ground--but also some very nice lighting. (Downscaling helps obscure the CA, too.)
And let me just say that I love that speedometer! Memories of riding in my dad's '70 Toronado.
Most of the character screen talk in the other thread is by Vashetti, who says he plays on a 1080p screen but actually posted 4K screenshots, which are native. But I'm willing to believe that I'm wrong. Do you know of any clean standard PS4 shots of the character select screen? All I could find are JPEGs with ruinous compression.
Okay, that suggests very strongly that no downsampling is happening (because there's more aliasing in your 1080p shots than in the 4K ones, which is opposite). It's still possible 1080p on Pro has better AA than 1080p on standard...though I don't really see it so far.
EDIT: Or, the PS4 screenshot function could be nearest-neighbor downscaling from 4K to 1080p when screenshotting like this. But there's capture card shots in the other thread that don't really look appreciably better.
That sounds disappointing for 1080p owners. Let's see, if further analysis show something else. Thanks for the good thread and fast analysis.
Some more D3 screens (Standard and PS4 Pro). Hope that helps. If you need different ones let me know, I took many of them.
Standard PS4 screens, old patch
PS4 - 2k ingame 1
PS4 - 2k ingame 2
PS4 - 2k character screen 1
PS4 - 2k character screen 2
PS4 Pro, with current patch
PS4 Pro - 2k character screen
PS4 Pro - 4k character screen
PS4 Pro - 2k ingame
PS4 Pro - 4k ingame
down 2 orth
Member
Edit: Can't wait for the 1080p benefits in Diablo!
Liabe Brave
Member
Thanks a lot, this is very helpful!
I was wrong, it does seem there's downsampling on the Pro for 1080p users. I was under the impression that standard PS4 had pretty good AA, from Digital Foundry's old faceoff. But that may be in gameplay, where models are further away. On the character screen Nerix posted, there's just light, scrappy post-process AA on standard PS4. Here's a crop zoomed to 200%:
Now here's a Pro 1080p shot, grabbed with a capture card by Omegabalmung9.
It's a different class and background, but you can easily see the improved AA. This is especially apparent on the top of the banner, but can be seen on the armor as well. This AA is very likely to be due to downsampling.
Sorry for my mistake.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Don't apologize man, you're doing work we'll otherwise would never know or have to wait for sources like DF or NXGamer to write about. The developers really should be more forthcoming about what exactly they're improving instead of just a vague "4K support added" type statement.
Game looks absolutely phenomenal on my 4K display. I have to say, the images display a bit of softness that is isn't apparent (maybe because of the fluidity of the motion) when I'm actually playing the game.
Game looks absolutely phenomenal on my 4K display. I have to say, the images display a bit of softness that is isn't apparent (maybe because of the fluidity of the motion) when I'm actually playing the game.
thatJohann
Member
I think Sony might force developers to be vague with Pro update notes
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
I doubt that, Sony's own biggest first party dev, Naughty Dog, were precise with their details when they announced Pro updates for both UC4 and TLoU. They nailed down 1440p and 1800p respectively, no "4K" PR shenanigans.
http://blog.us.playstation.com/2016/11/10/uncharted-4-and-the-last-of-us-remastered-on-ps4-pro/
Nothing to be sorry about, thanks for looking into this.
When I look at my ingame screens (2k pre patch vs 2k post patch), I can hardly see a difference. That's probably due to the already quite good AA pre patch and the camera being further away? I hoped that they will add some other stuff they did with the PC version (http://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/25718-ptr-graphics-update/)
Another question: are there differences in screenshot quality when using a capture card compared to the share button? I doubt it (as the share button screens are png and the file sizes really big), but would be interesting to know (as in this case, screens from different sources shouldn't be compared).
boneyjangles
Member
I don't have a 4K display, but here's my ideal for all games...
For the game engine just to scale resolution dynamically, enough to maintain around 60fps and for the UI to always be in the native resolution of the display, ie 1080p or 4K. Having said that I'm not against the decision to go 30fps if the game is slow paced and suits it.
For the game engine just to scale resolution dynamically, enough to maintain around 60fps and for the UI to always be in the native resolution of the display, ie 1080p or 4K. Having said that I'm not against the decision to go 30fps if the game is slow paced and suits it.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Might have been. The D3 screens I took above in 1080p were from the sharing option set to 1080p while my actual game was 4K. They appeared to be 'regular 1080p' screens. Maybe the share button reduces frame buffer resolution to 1080p before grabbing it ?
Diablo 3 looks great scaled up on a 4K display. I don't know by my eyes whether it's native 4K but it's definitely a lot smoother than what I remember on OG from my little experience with that version.
Liabe Brave
Member
Yes, it's mostly the camera distance. I had a hard time determining anything from gameplay shots without direct comparison of objects. The character screen makes the difference more noticeable.
I doubt there's a difference, provided the Share capture is PNG. The reason I used a capture card shot was simply because it happened to have the same banner post in it, making comparison easier. I could've used two PS4 shots but I didn't have ones quite as similar.
Well, it has to reduce the size if the game is running at 4K. The question is, what method does it use? I'd expect a regular scaling operation, but maybe it's just decimation? If the latter, that might help explain why when I downscaled the 4K screens, they looked better than the actual 1080p captures. But it could also be that Share is scaling, and how AA is applied in Diablo messed me up.
In any case, that wasn't the main reason I concluded there were no changes at 1080p. More crucially, for what the standard PS4 looked like I was initially going on a few gameplay shots and description from Digital Foundry. This gave me a false impression of how much AA was in the game. So when I first saw patched 1080p shots, the improved AA registered as "about the same". Once Nerix provided more comparable standard shots, the change was obvious.
Domcorleone
Member
Seriously, whats going on with the X-Com 2 Pro patch? Is it ever coming out?
2k Games has been quieter than a church mouse
2k Games has been quieter than a church mouse
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Any change in your assessment of the 4K screenshots ? You mentioned earlier it looked like native 4K resolution based on the clean edges, even though there was some smoothness in the overall picture. Would be an awesome achievement if it comes up as a full native 4K buffer at 60 FPS.
That and the Fallout 4 patch. It's been a few months since they announced the next patch as being a PS4 Pro patch and no patch since then
MagnetoWasRight
Member
Why isn't Watch Dogs 2 downsampling listed for 1080p? It looks great. These comparisons are all taken at 1080p Pro/Non-Pro.
http://www.dualshockers.com/2016/11/14/watch-dogs-2-ps4-pro-ps4-screenshot-comparison-anti-aliasing/
http://www.dualshockers.com/2016/11/14/watch-dogs-2-ps4-pro-ps4-screenshot-comparison-anti-aliasing/
Because you get 1800ch if you have a 21600 or 1080p. Listing downsampling fot 1080p would be redundant.
That and the Fallout 4 patch. It's been a few months since they announced the next patch as being a PS4 Pro patch and no patch since then
Bethesda gonna Bethesda. Skyrim/ESO were positive outliers
Liabe Brave
Member
It is. As said in the OP, all listed games downsample unless the Pro mode has a red X.
That and the Fallout 4 patch. It's been a few months since they announced the next patch as being a PS4 Pro patch and no patch since then
https://www.twitter.com/BethesdaStudios/status/799322090189029376?ref_src=twsrc^tfw
I'm patiently waiting to start up a new game now that I've picked up all the DLC, hopefully the wait will be worth it.
falconxcrunner09
Member
So what is the verdict on the Diablo 3 pro patch? Is it some resolution checkboarded or native 4K?
NinjamicWZ
Banned
I'm really pleased Diablo III got this support on console since it's an older title and also 3rd party. Set the example, Blizzard.
Liabe Brave
Member
As stated in the OP, I believe it's native 4K, because I don't see any evidence of checkerboard artifacts. But my opinion alone isn't sufficient to form a "verdict".
I will say that if I'm wrong, I think it's more likely about the resolution than about whether CBR is being used. That is, I wouldn't be super surprised if it's actually 1800p rather than 2160p (even though my pixel counting seemed to indicate full 4K).
dragonzdogma
Member
Hi -OP
Just wanted to Thank you and congratulate you on this awesome thread.
Keep up the good work.
The list is very easy to understand and very professional.
Just one minor thing-
I thought Square enix patched World of Final fantasy a few weeks ago.
Just wanted to Thank you and congratulate you on this awesome thread.
Keep up the good work.
The list is very easy to understand and very professional.
Just one minor thing-
I thought Square enix patched World of Final fantasy a few weeks ago.
Liabe Brave
Member
No, they announced that they had developed a patch for it. However, Sony's certification team was about to go on break for the holidays, so there was no point to submitting the patch for cert. It is currently scheduled to release January 12.
That'd have to be some pretty awful performance to run worse than the standard version.
So probably pretty likely.
Skyrim looks stunning in 4K so I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt.
Seconded. Three cheers!
A vg247 news regarding the D3 patch referred to this thread: http://www.vg247.com/2017/01/05/diablo-3-now-supports-ps4-pro/
So keep in mind, your thread is now an official source
So keep in mind, your thread is now an official source
Autofokus
Member
Nope, not yet at least. I hoped, based on that interview (Nov. 21), that the patch would hit before x-mas.
teacupcopter
Banned
If I'm getting a pro next week and haven't played FFXV yet, should I wait a bit until this rumoured patch comes out? Or just play it next week when I get my pro?
Always-honest
Banned
I hope this trend of no downsampling ends real fucking soon. It's infuriating.
However, amazing thread OP!!!
However, amazing thread OP!!!
Melchiah
Member
I couldn't agree more. Downsampling should be as common feature as higher resolution on 4K displays is, no question about it. Customers should be treated equally, no matter what kind of TV they have.
I applaud the OP for his work as well. It's great that someone took the effort, and combined all the information for others to see.
Goose_Se7en
Banned
I've said this before and I'll say it again, yes downsampling on a 1080p set does offer marginal and (to some) noticeable improvements -for example my brother couldn't tell the difference in TF2- but Sony isn't selling the Pro with the thinking the downsampling is a selling point. It's not.
Seeing what the PS4 Pro can do on my 4K/HDR set changed my tune. That is what the Pro was fully intended for.
NieR Automata DEMO comparison screenshots I did:
PS4 Pro - (1080p native resolution /60 frames per second, motion blur on character, I prefer motion blur off personally):
PS4 standard version - (900p native resolution /60 frames per second/ a lot more aliasing) :
PS4 Pro:
PS4 regular:
PS4 Pro (see differences in edge smoothness):
PS4 regular:
PS4 Pro - (1080p native resolution /60 frames per second, motion blur on character, I prefer motion blur off personally):
PS4 standard version - (900p native resolution /60 frames per second/ a lot more aliasing) :
PS4 Pro:
PS4 regular:
PS4 Pro (see differences in edge smoothness):
PS4 regular:
Huge Succeeded
Banned
That's a weird game to demonstrate the effect of downsampling with. The improvements are way more than marginal depending on the game and the level of downsampling.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Cross posting some more Mafia 3 screens from the Patch topic, game looks REALLY good sometimes.
1440p, higher quality shadows, motion blur, no tearing on Pro vs Base.
1440p, higher quality shadows, motion blur, no tearing on Pro vs Base.
Liabe Brave
Member
Good stuff, thanks! I think the visuals would really come together better if they'd been able to increase the resolution of reflections. They work fine on the spotty wet ground, but their blockiness kind of makes all the cars look like they have crumpled body panels.
Still, the game definitely has a cool visual mood, and all the cherry period autos differentiate it from other open-world games.
anothertech
Member
This is an amazing and comprehensive list. Thank you for this.