It would cost that much but 'only' be able to play Switch games in 4k? For that much money, I would expect it to be Switch 2
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The Curious Case of the Switch Foxconn Leak (Now a hardware fanfiction thread)
- Thread starter Cerium
- Start date
It would cost that much but 'only' be able to play Switch games in 4k? For that much money, I would expect it to be Switch 2
Thanks! I was pretty amazed when I came up with it. I had just finished watching that weird Miyamoto measures things video and then Rogue One when I realized "hey, isn't the Switch tablet not too far in size from a NES cartridge?" And it snowballed from there. I wanted to tell you guys back in December but I didn't want to get too ahead of myself.. I thought about actually sending the idea to Nintendo but I'm sure it wouldn't go anywhere due to legal reasons/that it's so obvious that it's clearly in development as we speak.
I really hope this pans out!
Proelite
Member
SOC and ram would be hampered by the narrow space and cooling. They'll have to settle for mobile class cpu and gpus.
Dock being SCD itself would mean there is no physical limit to the size / power.
Mr. Pointy
Member
I really like the idea of this too. It's like a big Neo Geo cart or a big SNES Super FX cart.
Couldn't the design off it spill out over the dock, like a... 32X. You could theoretically have more room that way. Also, mobile 1060?
nordique
Member
very interesting indeed - will be exciting to see if this is correct. That is truly incredibly coincidental, has something to do with stress tests, or the real deal.
If the switch has A72's then colour me impressed.
After Wii and Wii U however I have learned to temper my expectations when it comes to the "best case scenario"
That's what I figured. A mobile GPU would fit in there nicely, and yes, it could even be larger and sick out of the dock, just like the switch does. My mockup was quick, but it probably wouldn't have joy-con slots. (Or would it?)
TLZ
Banned
There's no reason to be pissed off in this case though. It would be an optional accessory for the home console enthusiasts. The portable part is still the same for portable games so they don't have to buy it. So we can safely say this $300 price point of tablet and dummy dock is the base price. Anything on top is optional accessory.
If this SCD is true, and I hope it is because this leaker seems pretty legit compared to all the ones we have, then it means Nintendo really are catering for everybody this time, although not at launch. I just hope it's not too expensive. I'll be waiting until the holidays to pick switch up anyway so hopefully everything is clearer then.
TLZ
Banned
This is ALL SPECULATION, but I would be very very surprised if this wasn't actively in development as far as the "SCD" goes, especially if these rumors are true:
While viewing Rogue One, there was a scene in that film that made it all click together for me. I was trying to think of what docking the Switch reminded me of... when I realized the Switch is basically a cartridge itself! The Switch dock is top-loaded, not unlike the Famicom/SNES. So what do you get when you take a Switch tablet, remove the screen and battery, and fill up all that space with a 1060?
Switch+
It's not the dock that's the powerup, I believe it will be an accessory for the dock.
Enabling dual screen gameplay like the Wii U.
Enhancing the graphics tenfold.
Tabletless SKU?
Acting as a base so 8 Switch players can also use the TV as sort of asymmetric gameplay/spectator mode?
Enabling VR?
Priced right at around $200-$300, could this be the answer to make the Switch more competitive with the PS4 Pro/Scorpio?
Oh shit...
Never thought of this. Only went as far as having a different dock. Not a bad idea. But then the whole point of the Switch falls since you can't quickly switch from TV to tablet, no?
Edit: oops! Sorry for the dp....
ShadowFox08
Member
It's about time we talk about SCDs though.
Pretty ingenious. Would be weird seeing this sold separately without a dock of its own. Even though it is an accessory to the dock, it would have to be its own console with an OS and storage if its going to take the switch tablet's replacement.
Oh shit...
Never thought of this. Only went as far as having a different dock. Not a bad idea. But then the whole point of the Switch falls since you can't quickly switch from TV to tablet, no?
Edit: oops! Sorry for the dp....
Ideally, with this setup you could do this wireless, and not have to physically replace the cartridge. Kinda like the Wii U.
If the GPU in the tablet and GPU in the SCD worked simultaneously via cloud processing, you'd get better graphics on screen as well as on the tablet while in the vicinity of the docked SCD. It would revert to normal when leaving the area.
I imagine they would sell it as a bundle. This would basically act as a complete console to compete with PS4 Pro and Scorpio for the attention of people who want 4K gaming. Existing Switch owners could purchase just the dock in order to upgrade at a lower price. Assuming they can develop games to scale easily between each configuration, this would be a pretty good value proposition for current switch owners to upgrade for a lower price, and also for developers to easily make games for a wider range of consumer preferences.
EDIT: To explain a little bit more clearly, the proposed Switch configuration would ideally be able to run the same game in every graphics mode, which would seem to me to avoid the trap set by previous add-on setups like 32X or Sega CD. If anything, it might widen the audience for an individual game by being able to cater to a larger range of consumer tastes, such as a standard low cost Switch option for casual gamers vs the Switch + SCD bundle for gamers who care about 4K.
Didn't Todd Howard from Bethesda say he saw the most impressive demo he's ever seen from the Switch? The SCD patent is as old as the collaboration with Nvidia per Semiaccurates original leak, what if Nintendo has been shopping around this power dock with the switch from the beginning?
Also, I think a 1ghz 4core cpu would have serious issues powering a ~4tflops card and the leaked clocks here were just the final 16nm chips (speculation) running at their new clocks. Which would still require a move to A72 cores.
BTW the current 393gflops or 472gflops in switch if targeting 720p would line up very well with a 4k target GTX 1060. As for the clocks of that card? Well thin and lightweight laptops run the 1060 at full clocks so it's just whatever ratio Nintendo and Nvidia need (9x 720p is good for 4k)
WSJ back earlier last year also said a demo was shown to them that couldn't be done without top of the line hardware at the time. (that would be a GTX 980 for instance)
I didn't want to touch on the SCD in the leak and was using hypotheticals before because I didn't want this thread to just grow out of control, but with it being speculated by serious tech heads, I decided to bring up this demo stuff because the X1 can't do anything that impressive at all.
Also there has been many leakers quietly talking about a SCD. So we should absolutely look at this very substantial leak as the best evidence of such a device.
Also, I think a 1ghz 4core cpu would have serious issues powering a ~4tflops card and the leaked clocks here were just the final 16nm chips (speculation) running at their new clocks. Which would still require a move to A72 cores.
BTW the current 393gflops or 472gflops in switch if targeting 720p would line up very well with a 4k target GTX 1060. As for the clocks of that card? Well thin and lightweight laptops run the 1060 at full clocks so it's just whatever ratio Nintendo and Nvidia need (9x 720p is good for 4k)
WSJ back earlier last year also said a demo was shown to them that couldn't be done without top of the line hardware at the time. (that would be a GTX 980 for instance)
I didn't want to touch on the SCD in the leak and was using hypotheticals before because I didn't want this thread to just grow out of control, but with it being speculated by serious tech heads, I decided to bring up this demo stuff because the X1 can't do anything that impressive at all.
Also there has been many leakers quietly talking about a SCD. So we should absolutely look at this very substantial leak as the best evidence of such a device.
Mr. Pointy
Member
A GTX 1060, mobile or otherwise, running at 921MHz is outputting ~2.36TF (1280 pipelines x 2 operations x 0.921GHz - I think that's right). What's the power draw on that? Like, would jaxapollo's Switch cart solution need a second power supply?
If it has it's own power brick, it's really going to be a 32X.
If it has it's own power brick, it's really going to be a 32X.
Yeah that's not going to happen in a portable. Any time soon
The next Switch would likely be 2.5 times faster than the current Switch and have a 1080p screen, but even that isn't happening until Volta and possibly 10nm as that is either ~1tflops or ~1.2tflops and probably 2 years off minimum.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Thread title sound like a professor layton game
GhostTrick
Banned
pixelation
Member
Agreed.
Movalpolos
Banned
Carnival of stupid returns.
How did this add to the discussion when he was talking about a certain piece of software he saw? You really think he is just brown nosing Nintendo here with an outrageous claim like the most impressive demo he has ever seen came from a X1 chip? Not even PR speak can cover such an obvious dumb thing to say.
GhostTrick
Banned
Because we dont know for sure what that demo was about and if he was talking from a graphical stand point.
For what it's worth, it could've been 1-2 Switch.
So yes, loud PR guy like Todd Howard trying the HD Rumble could lead to "wow one of the most impressive tech demo I tried ! "
He didnt said the most impressive but ONE of the most impressive.
He's just throwing PR for the upcoming Nintendo console he cares so much about that he's going to shelve a 6 years old game at full price on it and call it a day.
It's on the same level as EA guy "I love Nintendo so much I called my son Luigi. Here's FIFA 360 on switch"
He never specified what he meant by that. It could have been the seamless switching, it could have been the controller options, hd rumble, the system in general. It's in no way certain he was talking about some tech/ graphics demo.
Also i'm kinda confused why you would take some guy's behind the curtain impressions of a switch demo as if it was representative of some secret sauce the switch has got? We know Zelda is at 900p with iffy quality right now as a direct port from wii U.
I remember the Wii U Zeld and Bird demos and how they seemed impressive
I remember the Wii U Zeld and Bird demos and how they seemed impressive
This is ALL SPECULATION, but I would be very very surprised if this wasn't actively in development as far as the "SCD" goes, especially if these rumors are true:
While viewing Rogue One, there was a scene in that film that made it all click together for me. I was trying to think of what docking the Switch reminded me of... when I realized the Switch is basically a cartridge itself! The Switch dock is top-loaded, not unlike the Famicom/SNES. So what do you get when you take a Switch tablet, remove the screen and battery, and fill up all that space with a 1060?
Switch+
It's not the dock that's the powerup, I believe it will be an accessory for the dock.
Enabling dual screen gameplay like the Wii U.
Enhancing the graphics tenfold.
Tabletless SKU?
Acting as a base so 8 Switch players can also use the TV as sort of asymmetric gameplay/spectator mode?
Enabling VR?
Priced right at around $200-$300, could this be the answer to make the Switch more competitive with the PS4 Pro/Scorpio?
Seems okay at first, until you start thinking about it, and then the obvious question pop ups:
Why even bother with the dock? If all the processing power is in the 'cartridge', why not just make it an entirely stand alone device?
So what about the WSJ demo being about pushing more polygons than ps4 or xb1 and specifically needing a high end PC hardware?
The two sound related to me.
GhostTrick
Banned
Was it about more polygons though ?
All it said is it ran with difficulties on top end hardware.
You guys are delusional. This SCD fantasy is, again, completely counter to common sense.
Power is really not Nintendo's concern. They are not going to bend over backwards and put in years of R&D just so that a small subset of edge cases can buy a SCD with a 1060 in it and enjoy Mario in 4K. Whoever pitches that idea at Nintendo would get laughed out of the room.
Power is really not Nintendo's concern. They are not going to bend over backwards and put in years of R&D just so that a small subset of edge cases can buy a SCD with a 1060 in it and enjoy Mario in 4K. Whoever pitches that idea at Nintendo would get laughed out of the room.
Basically this. Another fucking case of the Nintendo ON fake of the Revolution/Wii times.
Maybe it was highly optimised for Vulcan / nvn or something. For all we know about the switch, competing with a high end pc makes no sense even with the very best case scenario.
They don't necessarily sound related to me anyway.
"What do you think of the Switch, Nintendos newly announced console that is portable but also hooks up to your TV? I love it. I got to play it. I will tell you well, maybe thats an N.D.A. thing. One of the best demos Ive ever seen. Probably the best demo Ive ever seen. At E3."
He doesn't mention graphics at all. All he says is he got to play it and it impressed him. Also he is a PR person who wants people to buy Skyrim for Switch. Wasn't it confirmed the Switch version is more similar to the 360 version than SE? Doesn't make sense that he was hyping the graphical capabilities if so,
Since no one actually reads the foxconn leak: "the software demo testing is millions of fish and running almost 8 days, there's no single frames drops" This was at the 1.78ghz and 921mhz. What we know of X1 would lead us to believe that such a demo would throttle.
Final hardware came in mid to late October, and was stress tested for 8+ days with these clocks, that is what we are finding out from this leak. (SCD stuff aside) I think that it is likely that X1 was used as devkit boards and developers were given X1's full specs on a spread sheet for a reason: Developers got the 1TFLOP (fp16) number on the spread sheet, they also got the up to 2ghz CPU A57, if they moved to 16nm on final hardware (we still can't rule this out) then these clocks shouldn't throttle.
So why test at these clocks? Well again 16nm A72 @ 1.7ghz is the ~same power consumption as 20nm A57 cores @ 1ghz.
921mhz is a x12 multiplier of X1, where as the 768mhz was a x10 multiplier.
Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony have all done this to developers, given "final hardware" and then changed things. As long as they didn't decrease performance, there is no real issue with launch software, it would just run better after a patch.
https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSw...the_switch_has_gone_through_multiple_dev_kit/
Better performance from higher clocks based on final kits being tested? This is a repeat of many Nintendo hardware launches including Wii U's 1ghz cpu and 400mhz gpu to 1.24ghz and 550mhz respectively. Developers got a surprise from PS4 final kits having 8GB ram and XB1 saw a smaller (no process node shrink) clock increase for launch as well.
Final hardware came in mid to late October, and was stress tested for 8+ days with these clocks, that is what we are finding out from this leak. (SCD stuff aside) I think that it is likely that X1 was used as devkit boards and developers were given X1's full specs on a spread sheet for a reason: Developers got the 1TFLOP (fp16) number on the spread sheet, they also got the up to 2ghz CPU A57, if they moved to 16nm on final hardware (we still can't rule this out) then these clocks shouldn't throttle.
So why test at these clocks? Well again 16nm A72 @ 1.7ghz is the ~same power consumption as 20nm A57 cores @ 1ghz.
921mhz is a x12 multiplier of X1, where as the 768mhz was a x10 multiplier.
Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony have all done this to developers, given "final hardware" and then changed things. As long as they didn't decrease performance, there is no real issue with launch software, it would just run better after a patch.
https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSw...the_switch_has_gone_through_multiple_dev_kit/
Better performance from higher clocks based on final kits being tested? This is a repeat of many Nintendo hardware launches including Wii U's 1ghz cpu and 400mhz gpu to 1.24ghz and 550mhz respectively. Developers got a surprise from PS4 final kits having 8GB ram and XB1 saw a smaller (no process node shrink) clock increase for launch as well.
If Switch gets a SCD it won't be to increase the raw processing power, it will be to get some AR projector or some bigger IR camera or HD rumble for the whole room. It will shake your house with Earthquake simulator game bundled.
It's like you haven't seen the presentation and haven't read the interviews with Koizumi and Reggie. Power is not part of Nintendo's strategy in any way.
It's like you haven't seen the presentation and haven't read the interviews with Koizumi and Reggie. Power is not part of Nintendo's strategy in any way.
So, you read the foxconn leak, saw all the impossible stuff he got right, realize how the clocks he gives relates to both Eurogamer's clocks (which were revealed over a month later with older info) and X1's clocks, you see the LKD twitter about the October Devkits being more powerful than July devkits (where Eurogamer's clocks come from) and you see that the foxconn employee who did in fact post his leak from the foxconn IP gave very specific measurements for the larger Devkit that matches up in size and shape to the GTX 1060, as well as notice that a 720p frame created in both Eurogamer's clocks or the foxconn clocks would be possible to recreate on a GTX 1060 at the same frames... (catching breath) You see the WSJ leak NX "would likely include both a console and at least one mobile unit that could either be used in conjunction with the console or taken on the road for separate use." You see WSJ saying Nintendo will use "industry leading chips" after the criticisms of Wii U's hardware. You hear about Amazing demos from WSJ's sources requiring the highest end CPUs and GPUs, you hear Todd Howard say one of the best demos he's ever seen, and you hear that developers find the Switch the easiest of the 3 to develop for in december via Michael Pachter.
You hear and see all of that and you just go, "Yeah, but Nintendo..." lol I'll never understand why you come into a speculation thread about a leak that obviously has various info 100% correct, and laugh it off like it was written by some super fan's wet dream.
Heh, so while hyperlinking all those things, I found this: "Like pretty much every games console, the switch has gone through multiple dev kit iterations. There was one floating around in July a LOT of info on specs has been based on. Another went out to bigger devs in October. Some bigger indies are still working from the July dev kits. The Oct kit is more powerful overall than the July dev kit." it's from the Laura Kate Dale post, interesting if Digital Foundries sources up to 21 days ago were still working on the older july devkits...
ecosse_011172
Junior Member
FFS guys, stop doing this to yourselves.
We got confirmation that Mario is pretty much finished and it's running at 720p docked, Zelda, a Wii U port is running with dips at 900p.
The machine is (yet again) less powerful than the most conservative expectations.
They haven't show anything beyond Wii U bar MK8 rendered at 1080p.
Let it go.
We got confirmation that Mario is pretty much finished and it's running at 720p docked, Zelda, a Wii U port is running with dips at 900p.
The machine is (yet again) less powerful than the most conservative expectations.
They haven't show anything beyond Wii U bar MK8 rendered at 1080p.
Let it go.
Source? It has at least 7 months of development left.
ecosse_011172
Junior Member
Splatoon 2 is out in 4-5 months, looks exactly teh same as Splatoon on Wii U and it's running at 720p docked and you guys are still looking for the secret sauce.
The proof is in the pudding, look at the actual games being shown than coming up with all these theories on how it can somehow be more powerful.
The proof is in the pudding, look at the actual games being shown than coming up with all these theories on how it can somehow be more powerful.
ecosse_011172
Junior Member
What you decline to mention is that the demo build runs exactly the same undocked and Digital Foundry believes they're still working on docked optimization.
I'm not seeing any kind of direct quote in there.
I was glad that this thread could become the place to speculate about the actual Switch hardware.
Buuuut all of a sudden this turned into wild speculation land again...
That is not true at all, MK was 720 in Wii U, and 900p is a nice step over 720, splatoon it's the only outlier that doesn't upgrade docked for the time being but could most certainly be a "work in progress".
So stop spreading false statements.
Buuuut all of a sudden this turned into wild speculation land again...
That is not true at all, MK was 720 in Wii U, and 900p is a nice step over 720, splatoon it's the only outlier that doesn't upgrade docked for the time being but could most certainly be a "work in progress".
So stop spreading false statements.
If a game runs in 720p docked than we know it's not using the consoles full power because it runs in 720p when un-docked.
ecosse_011172
Junior Member
Source 2
Producer Yoshiaki Koizumi unveiled that the game itself is actually considerably finished
ecosse_011172
Junior Member
If it has all this secret sauce why wouldn't it just simply run at 1080p, it's supposedly running at 2.5x the clock, it makes no sense whatsoever.
Maybe the final game will run at 1080p but what we've seen so far should seriously temper expectations.
We don't know what "considerably" finished means. Even Splatoon 2 was confirmed to run in mobile mode when docked in the demo and thats a summer title. Its likely optimisation for docked mode is something that happens late in development.
His second "source" is a site that copied his first source and added quotation marks around something that was never presented as a quote.
ecosse_011172
Junior Member
You do realize that Eurogamer's specs would easily allow 1080p and 60fps of 720p and 30fps Wii U games right? It's not because of performance that these launch games aren't maxing out the device.
Hell NSMBU ran at 720p on Wii U at launch. Launch games don't really have the best performance record and Nintendo did say they wanted to try and hit 1080p for Zelda at launch.
ecosse_011172
Junior Member
Yes, Eurogamer specs would easily allow it, you guys are speculating on the machine being more powerful than the Eurogamer specs yet the huge presentation they just did 2 months before release doesn't even match the Eurogamer specs.
I'd love the machine to be more powerful, I really hoped for a noticeable leap over Wii U (albeit well shy of XBO) in 1080p but I don't see any sign of it.
The games shown don't even have any AA (except one, can't remember which).
ecosse_011172
Junior Member
This is ALL SPECULATION, but I would be very very surprised if this wasn't actively in development as far as the "SCD" goes, especially if these rumors are true:
While viewing Rogue One, there was a scene in that film that made it all click together for me. I was trying to think of what docking the Switch reminded me of... when I realized the Switch is basically a cartridge itself! The Switch dock is top-loaded, not unlike the Famicom/SNES. So what do you get when you take a Switch tablet, remove the screen and battery, and fill up all that space with a 1060?
Switch+
It's not the dock that's the powerup, I believe it will be an accessory for the dock.
Enabling dual screen gameplay like the Wii U.
Enhancing the graphics tenfold.
Tabletless SKU?
Acting as a base so 8 Switch players can also use the TV as sort of asymmetric gameplay/spectator mode?
Enabling VR?
Priced right at around $200-$300, could this be the answer to make the Switch more competitive with the PS4 Pro/Scorpio?
How would that compete with Pro and Scorpio if the lowest common denominator would still be the weak Switch?