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[BigEmil]

Well damn, pack it up here folks

I mean he's not wrong in a sense, Scorpio is becoming more PC than ever more than what the 2013 consoles are PC-like.

Scorpio is becoming something like a steambox and with MS outing their exclusives to PC, Scorpio is just not that appealing to many audiences and of course since its trying to be more like a PC, a normal PC can still outpower the Scorpio easily in terms of power and fidelity as well as the added PC benefits such as free online and no need to pay for the XBL paywall etcetc

 

[Clear]

Yeah, I think you'll be wrong here.

I think its about as likely a turnout as Scorpio returning Xbox to the top of the gaming heap, which is to say I'd expect a mild uptick at best.

Reasons why are simple:

Tech specs matter less than price point, software line-up, availability, install base/mindshare. Scorpio is disadvantaged against Playstation in every single one of those more important areas.

MS has done a great job of making it appear that Scorpio's putative technological supremacy is a big deal, when the historical reality is that the most powerful hardware has never been the deciding factor. And that includes our current gen when Xbone had far more severe issues at launch than it being perceived as less powerful than PS4.

MS' apparent obsession over the "power" of its offering seems to me stems from a belief that their "key to success" is making their console the best choice to play multi-platform titles. Hence their endless claims of "special sauce" from upclocks and DX12, to the power of the cloud and ultimately Scorpio being seemingly more of a marketing prioriry than offering more and fresher exclusive software.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

It'll be less than that. You get diminishing returns as you go to higher and higher resolutions. We've already seen it with the Digital Foundry's reviews of the PS4 Pro. They repeatedly say that image compromises that would look bad at 1080p work perfectly fine at 4k because it's much harder to see the imperfections at the higher resolution.

we can only speculate about that

i would have thought that if improvements to image quality give diminishing returns devs will use the extra power for special effects and the like that do give a noticeable improvement

 

[Louis Cyphre]

I, and many others have assumed that the "true 4k" statement from Microsoft meant all games on the system would run at that resolution.

If not, then what makes it any different than Sony's offering?

Why would you assume that? Microsoft cannot force developers to make every game native 4K. As for the differences from what Sony did? For one I imagine the system will improve performance on games running at variable frame rates without the need for a patch. They have also been vocal about Scorpio for almost a year and giving developers a heads up so that more games should be ready when it comes out.

 

[Noisepurge]

I mean he's not wrong in a sense, Scorpio is becoming more PC than ever more than what the 2013 consoles are PC-like.

Yeah but what will the games be sold as? They surely can't say they are Xbox One games as they won't run on a 2013 Xbox One. Has to be a new generation then and abandoning the One already if true. Or they will just ask people to read the fine print and have actual console minimum specs listed

 

[JaffeLion]

First of all, no.

Secondly, Scorpio is DOA so none of this matters.

How so?

 

[Zojirushi]

I feel like we're so close to having hardware gen compatibility details on the back of game boxes. This is gonna be so fun to watch a couple years from now

 

[KooopaKid]

I hope so, the bigger the specs, the higher the price will be, the faster it'll fail.
This generation barely started, we don't need another console and devs certainly don't need one either.

 

[EventHorizon]

we can only speculate about that

i would have thought that if improvements to image quality give diminishing returns devs will use the extra power for special effects and the like that do give a noticeable improvement

Eventually they will, but for now the market share of the high end consoles isn't large enough to make the increased development costs required to do that worth it. The relatively straight resolution bump to brute force anti-aliasing, increased draw distance and HDR are about all that they are willing to do right now.

I feel like we're so close to having hardware gen compatibility details on the back of game boxes. This is gonna be so fun to watch a couple years from now

Not happening any time soon. The base models will outsell the high end ones for quite some time. Devs and the platform owners don't want to ignore that large install base.

 

[NumberThree]

Why would you assume that? Microsoft cannot force developers to make every game native 4K. As for the differences from what Sony did? For one I imagine the system will improve performance on games running at variable frame rates without the need for a patch. They have also been vocal about Scorpio for almost a year and giving developers a heads up so that more games should be ready when it comes out.

Of course they can. Every game released on the console requires certification from Microsoft, and Microsoft can require anything they want.

Of course they're not going to do that because it would be a crazy requirement.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

Eventually they will, but for now the market share of the high end consoles isn't large enough to make the increased development costs required to do that worth it. The relatively straight resolution bump to brute force anti-aliasing, increased draw distance and HDR are about all that they are willing to do right now.

this is a good point unless scorpio sales really take off to a degree i don't expect them to

 

[Ahasverus]

I hope so, the bigger the specs, the higher the price will be, the faster it'll fail.
This generation barely started, we don't need another console and devs certainly don't need one either.

Amen. 2016 was the first "foot on the ground" year this gen.

 

[User123456]

Are we already counting this as a fact?

Admittedly a guess, but so far everything we've heard about Zen points to it not being available for use in semicustom designs until 2018.

So unless Scorpio is getting delayed... I dunno.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

So, lets for arguments sake say, that Scorpio and the PS5 both share the game library with their predecessors, you wouldn't consider that a new generation? What if the PS4 Pro can play PS6 gamesm, albeit in lower res and less FPS? The PS6 isnt' a new generation then? And what if the XB1 can play Scorpio2 games?

Sometimes I think that the arguments made here on NeoGAF change in order to support whichever console manufacturer one supports.

Don't let my avatar fool you (as in: don't allege people of following hidden agendas because of their fucken avatar FCS just because they say something you don't agree with).

So yes, if PS5 hasn't exclusive content and has to share PS4 SKU's games library it isn't a new generation from my point of view, especially if power is supposed to be the only differentiator. They might as well call it PS4 Superpro or whatever.

But as many here already said, this "generational" approach needs some rethinking anyhow:

PS4 and PS4 Pro are one generation, as they share the same library.

XBOX One and Scorpio are one generation, as they share the same library (for now).

That's the easy part.

So, what if Scorpio and "Scorpio 2" also share the same library, but not with XBOX One? Then we get to overlapping generations, and each "upgrade" gets support for at least two life cycles. Which actually sounds pretty good.


The same applies for PlayStation of course, but given the rather incremental improvement of PS4 Pro cp. to OG PS4 that scenario is very unlikely. I think every PS4 Pro game will always run on an OG PS4, no matter if it also runs on a PS5. I suppose no one here actually believes that a game that is possible on PS4 Pro cannot run on an original PS4.

 

[Jack The Nipper]

with how far ahead sony is in the market they are free to set the terms

Unfortunately Sony is on common ground with themselves for creating somewhat under used or appreciated hardware.


Microsoft won't treat the Scorpio this way. I'm not trying to favor one or the other. Just my opinion on the past efforts of each. Even though Kinect may have been casually liked more easily than move.

 

[Sad Affleck]

If the white paper is accurate, it says no Scorpio-only games. Therefore it would not be a next gen console, no matter how powerful it is

I've seen this repeated a lot. "It's not a next generation unless there are exclusive games for it." I don't get it. In my mind a new generation starts when games are designed using the new hardware as a baseline. Whether they get ported down to other systems or not is irrelevant. The PS4 Pro is an upgrade because its games are being designed using the PS4 as a baseline and then get ported up. If Microsoft can get developers to design Xbox games using the Scorpio as a baseline and then port down to XB1, PS4 or Pro then the Scorpio is a next generation machine.

I don't think they will convince developers to do so outside of first party studios because it's easier to port up than to port down but maybe they're prepared to throw a few money hats around to make it happen.

 

[killatopak]

Yeahhhh I don't think so.

 

[Louis Cyphre]

Of course they can. Every game released on the console requires certification from Microsoft, and Microsoft can require anything they want.

Of course they're not going to do that because it would be a crazy requirement.

You're right, they could but it would be stupid to do so.

 

[TBiddy]

Don't let my avatar fool you (as in: don't allege people of following hidden agendas because of their fucken avatar FCS just because they say something you don't agree with).

I couldn't care less which avatar you have to be honest. It just seems like a trend that a lot of arguments on Gaf tend to change, depending on how they suit any given agenda, one might have. I have no idea if you're "guilty" of that, since I don't recognize your name, and it wasn't directed at you. More of a general comment, so to say.

So yes, if PS5 hasn't exclusive content and has to share PS4 SKU's games library it isn't a new generation from my point of view, especially if power is supposed to be the only differentiator. They might as well call it PS4 Superpro or whatever.

I think you're quite alone with that view. My guess is that everyone and their mother would call the PS5 a new generation, no matter if it shares it's games with the PS4 or not.

But that might just be me.

 

[Okami Haundo]

I've seen this repeated a lot. "It's not a next generation unless there are exclusive games for it." I don't get it. In my mind a new generation starts when games are designed using the new hardware as a baseline. Whether they get ported down to other systems or not is irrelevant. The PS4 Pro is an upgrade because its games are being designed using the PS4 as a baseline and then get ported up. If Microsoft can get developers to design Xbox games using the Scorpio as a baseline and then port down to XB1, PS4 or Pro then the Scorpio is a next generation machine.

I don't think they will convince developers to do so outside of first party studios because it's easier to port up than to port down but maybe they're prepared to throw a few money hats around to make it happen.

I think that the traditional definition of a "console generation" is obsolete by the logic being used here. As it seems unlikely that Scorpio would become the "baseline" until its successor is out, we're in an awkward spot. That would mean that Scorpio IS Microsoft's next-generation console, but not at launch.

It's interesting to me that both manufacturers seem to want iterative consoles, but plan to implement the idea differently.

 

[Outrun]

I mean he's not wrong in a sense, Scorpio is becoming more PC than ever more than what the 2013 consoles are PC-like.

Scorpio is becoming something like a steambox and with MS outing their exclusives to PC, Scorpio is just not that appealing to many audiences and of course since its trying to be more like a PC, a normal PC can still outpower the Scorpio easily in terms of power and fidelity as well as the added PC benefits such as free online and no need to pay for the XBL paywall etcetc

I think you overestimate what a normal pc is.

I also think that people underestimate the ease of use gap between consoles and PC.

The Scorpio, and consoles in general, are still relevant.

 

[Vince DiCola]

But all Xbox One games can be played on Scorpio, so no.

Backwards compatible then?

 

[TLZ]

I hope so, the bigger the specs, the higher the price will be, the faster it'll fail.
This generation barely started, we don't need another console and devs certainly don't need one either.

We're in 4th year now, what do you mean barely started? Not every gen is ps360. That gen was the abnormal. 5 years is normal. Just have a look at all the gens before that.

 

[PackAPunchedMick]

Why would you assume that? Microsoft cannot force developers to make every game native 4K. As for the differences from what Sony did? For one I imagine the system will improve performance on games running at variable frame rates without the need for a patch. They have also been vocal about Scorpio for almost a year and giving developers a heads up so that more games should be ready when it comes out.

So dynamic 4k + native 4k = lol Sony, weak box.

But...

true 4k + well maybe not, but sometimes = holy shit next gen!!!!!?

 

[thomasmahler]

Don't let my avatar fool you (as in: don't allege people of following hidden agendas because of their fucken avatar FCS just because they say something you don't agree with).

So yes, if PS5 hasn't exclusive content and has to share PS4 SKU's games library it isn't a new generation from my point of view, especially if power is supposed to be the only differentiator. They might as well call it PS4 Superpro or whatever.

Okay, so you're basically just making up some very strange, arbitrary and anti-consumer rules and are upset that the reality is looking different than that?

According to your logic, if any first party game exists across 2 generations, the new generation is the same as the old one? Even if the next-gen box has, let's say, a shit ton more power, new input devices, allows for new features like VR and allows me to play games in my library at higher resolutions and higher framerates?

So basically, the Mega Drive wasn't a next-gen console, cause Golden Axe - a Sega First Party Exclusive, mind you - was also available on the Master System?

Titanfall 1 - An Xbox-Exclusive Game - was also available on the Xbox360, so the Xbox360 and the Xbox One belong to the same generation of hardware? The PS4 belongs to the PS3 generation because Journey was released on the PS4 as well? I can play the new Zelda game on my WiiU as well, so the Switch is not Nintendo's next generation?

A lot of folks in this thread here might be fairly young, but games have existed cross-generations for a looong time. That in itself is absolutely not an indicator of whether a box is 'next-gen' or not, whatever that even means.

This whole generation bullshit in general has to stop - A lot of folks play on PCs nowadays simply because STEAM has a library featuring hundreds of great games without any stupid 'this is gen X' assignment. With next-gen hardware, be it Scorpio or PS5, you'll be able to get games on the older gen hardware and see it run a little worse (probably lower res, lower framerate), while it'll perform the best on the latest gen hardware - exactly like what you see on the PC or Phone market. If you wanna play a brand new game at 60fps, get the new box. Don't wanna get the new box? You can still play the game on your old box at 30. That's probably how that's gonna work out.

The forward-compatibility is just an added benefit that Microsoft agreed upon and I think that's very pro-consumer: Once the new box comes out, your old box won't magically be worthless. You'll still be able to get the games that exist on that platform. Yes, they'll run a little worse, but devs will have to make sure the experience is still good. If it's not, it's the devs fault.

I can't fathom why in the world some of you folks come up with these arbitrary rules as to what constitutes what... At the end of the day, I just want to play the damn games that exist on the platform and the more games that are available to me, the better.

 

[Omnistalgic]

An actual new platform without forward compatibility has been the traditional definition.

Scorpio and the Pro are both mid gen refreshes. Yes, the Scorpio is a larger technical jump ahead (as it should be, it's coming out a year later for I think a higher cost), but I really don't understand the disdainful attitude some have taken towards the Pro while praising Scorpio with the same breath.

Because Pro is half-assed and Scorpio is full-blown next-gen. In case you didn't get the memo.

 

[TBiddy]

Because Pro is half-assed and Scorpio is full-blown next-gen. In case you didn't get the memo.

Instead of jumping on the train, how about you provide your opinion?

 

[Roberto Larcos]

Instead of jumping on the train, how about you provide your opinion?

Why put in the effort when making a drive-by shitpost has no repercussions whatsoever?

 

[Stormforger]

Okay, so you're basically just making up some very strange, arbitrary and anti-consumer rules and are upset that the reality is looking different than that?

I can't fathom why in the world some of you folks come up with these arbitrary rules as to what constitutes what... At the end of the day, I just want to play the damn games that exist on the platform and the more games that are available to me, the better.

Could not have said it better.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

I wonder why it's so hard to understand that a console can be a new generation while being compatible with the old one.

I wonder why it's so hard to understand the concept of "generations". If a console doesn't have any exclusive games build up from the ground for the new hardware, it is not a "new generation". Period.

There still are generations, and nothing what any die hard fans write here will change that.

- The PS4 Pro is a new version of the PS4 which will run PS4 games.

- Scorpio is a new version of the Xbox One which will run Xbox One games with improved quality.

It is that simple. This whole talk about "not having generations anymore" is nonsense, and does not at all reflect the reality and what is communicated by Sony and Microsoft.

The PS5 and Xbox Two will likely have backwards compatibility, but there won't be support for forward compatibility. You will not be able to buy a PS5 game and put it in your PS4. Same goes for Xbox. This is necessary for a couple of reasons, for example physical media. Today's Blu-rays are already at their limit. PS5 games will be on UHD Blu-rays. The PS4 can't play UHD Blu-rays. This is only one of many restrictions because of which developers don't want forward compatibility.

There will be of course crossgen titles, but that's not the same as forward compatibility. Those will be separate versions.. There might be promotions for a limited time where you can buy a digital version of a game and get a digital version for the new console or something like that. But that's all.

 

[notaskwid]

Okay, so you're basically just making up some very strange, arbitrary and anti-consumer rules and are upset that the reality is looking different than that?

According to your logic, if any first party game exists across 2 generations, the new generation is the same as the old one? Even if the next-gen box has, let's say, a shit ton more power, new input devices, allows for new features like VR and allows me to play games in my library at higher resolutions and higher framerates?

So basically, the Mega Drive wasn't a next-gen console, cause Golden Axe - a Sega First Party Exclusive, mind you - was also available on the Master System?

Titanfall 1 - An Xbox-Exclusive Game - was also available on the Xbox360, so the Xbox360 and the Xbox One belong to the same generation of hardware? The PS4 belongs to the PS3 generation because Journey was released on the PS4 as well? I can play the new Zelda game on my WiiU as well, so the Switch is not Nintendo's next generation?

A lot of folks in this thread here might be fairly young, but games have existed cross-generations for a looong time. That in itself is absolutely not an indicator of whether a box is 'next-gen' or not, whatever that even means.

This whole generation bullshit in general has to stop - A lot of folks play on PCs nowadays simply because STEAM has a library featuring hundreds of great games without any stupid 'this is gen X' assignment. With next-gen hardware, be it Scorpio or PS5, you'll be able to get games on the older gen hardware and see it run a little worse (probably lower res, lower framerate), while it'll perform the best on the latest gen hardware - exactly like what you see on the PC or Phone market. If you wanna play a brand new game at 60fps, get the new box. Don't wanna get the new box? You can still play the game on your old box at 30. That's probably how that's gonna work out.

The forward-compatibility is just an added benefit that Microsoft agreed upon and I think that's very pro-consumer: Once the new box comes out, your old box won't magically be worthless. You'll still be able to get the games that exist on that platform. Yes, they'll run a little worse, but devs will have to make sure the experience is still good. If it's not, it's the devs fault.

I can't fathom why in the world some of you folks come up with these arbitrary rules as to what constitutes what... At the end of the day, I just want to play the damn games that exist on the platform and the more games that are available to me, the better.

So, if that's your definition of new gen, why is the PS4 Pro not a new gen system according to your very own arbitrary rules?

 

[otakukidd]

Okay, so you're basically just making up some very strange, arbitrary and anti-consumer rules and are upset that the reality is looking different than that?

According to your logic, if any first party game exists across 2 generations, the new generation is the same as the old one? Even if the next-gen box has, let's say, a shit ton more power, new input devices, allows for new features like VR and allows me to play games in my library at higher resolutions and higher framerates?

So basically, the Mega Drive wasn't a next-gen console, cause Golden Axe - a Sega First Party Exclusive, mind you - was also available on the Master System?

Titanfall 1 - An Xbox-Exclusive Game - was also available on the Xbox360, so the Xbox360 and the Xbox One belong to the same generation of hardware? The PS4 belongs to the PS3 generation because Journey was released on the PS4 as well? I can play the new Zelda game on my WiiU as well, so the Switch is not Nintendo's next generation?

A lot of folks in this thread here might be fairly young, but games have existed cross-generations for a looong time. That in itself is absolutely not an indicator of whether a box is 'next-gen' or not, whatever that even means.

This whole generation bullshit in general has to stop - A lot of folks play on PCs nowadays simply because STEAM has a library featuring hundreds of great games without any stupid 'this is gen X' assignment. With next-gen hardware, be it Scorpio or PS5, you'll be able to get games on the older gen hardware and see it run a little worse (probably lower res, lower framerate), while it'll perform the best on the latest gen hardware - exactly like what you see on the PC or Phone market. If you wanna play a brand new game at 60fps, get the new box. Don't wanna get the new box? You can still play the game on your old box at 30. That's probably how that's gonna work out.

The forward-compatibility is just an added benefit that Microsoft agreed upon and I think that's very pro-consumer: Once the new box comes out, your old box won't magically be worthless. You'll still be able to get the games that exist on that platform. Yes, they'll run a little worse, but devs will have to make sure the experience is still good. If it's not, it's the devs fault.

I can't fathom why in the world some of you folks come up with these arbitrary rules as to what constitutes what... At the end of the day, I just want to play the damn games that exist on the platform and the more games that are available to me, the better.

He's not talking about cross gen games he's talking about if the ps5 had zero exclusives then it would not be a new gen. Of course cross gen is a thing.

 

[Falchion]

I'm hoping for a new generation in terms of power jump but still completely compatible with the earlier One. Best of both worlds.

 

[Hanmik]

So basically, the Mega Drive wasn't a next-gen console, cause Golden Axe - a Sega First Party Exclusive, mind you - was also available on the Master System?

Titanfall 1 - An Xbox-Exclusive Game - was also available on the Xbox360, so the Xbox360 and the Xbox One belong to the same generation of hardware? The PS4 belongs to the PS3 generation because Journey was released on the PS4 as well? I can play the new Zelda game on my WiiU as well, so the Switch is not Nintendo's next generation?

ehhh those games were programmed specifically for those consoles..? none of those games were just programmed as ONE game, they are different games programmed by different people (mostly).

So what you are saying ... is that future Xbox games will have to be programmed as a separate game to work on a specific console..and not just ONE game that runs different in accordance the hardware it is run on (like PC games)?

 

[QaaQer]

How so?

Ps5 in 2018/9.

 

[The_Darkest_Red]

Okay, so you're basically just making up some very strange, arbitrary and anti-consumer rules and are upset that the reality is looking different than that?

According to your logic, if any first party game exists across 2 generations, the new generation is the same as the old one? Even if the next-gen box has, let's say, a shit ton more power, new input devices, allows for new features like VR and allows me to play games in my library at higher resolutions and higher framerates?

So basically, the Mega Drive wasn't a next-gen console, cause Golden Axe - a Sega First Party Exclusive, mind you - was also available on the Master System?

Titanfall 1 - An Xbox-Exclusive Game - was also available on the Xbox360, so the Xbox360 and the Xbox One belong to the same generation of hardware? The PS4 belongs to the PS3 generation because Journey was released on the PS4 as well? I can play the new Zelda game on my WiiU as well, so the Switch is not Nintendo's next generation?

A lot of folks in this thread here might be fairly young, but games have existed cross-generations for a looong time. That in itself is absolutely not an indicator of whether a box is 'next-gen' or not, whatever that even means.

This whole generation bullshit in general has to stop - A lot of folks play on PCs nowadays simply because STEAM has a library featuring hundreds of great games without any stupid 'this is gen X' assignment. With next-gen hardware, be it Scorpio or PS5, you'll be able to get games on the older gen hardware and see it run a little worse (probably lower res, lower framerate), while it'll perform the best on the latest gen hardware - exactly like what you see on the PC or Phone market. If you wanna play a brand new game at 60fps, get the new box. Don't wanna get the new box? You can still play the game on your old box at 30. That's probably how that's gonna work out.

The forward-compatibility is just an added benefit that Microsoft agreed upon and I think that's very pro-consumer: Once the new box comes out, your old box won't magically be worthless. You'll still be able to get the games that exist on that platform. Yes, they'll run a little worse, but devs will have to make sure the experience is still good. If it's not, it's the devs fault.

I can't fathom why in the world some of you folks come up with these arbitrary rules as to what constitutes what... At the end of the day, I just want to play the damn games that exist on the platform and the more games that are available to me, the better.

Why do consoles need to be PCs? I hate this trend, but I guess I'm not the guy who's out there foaming at the mouth for a new iPhone every single year.

Generational delineation is a great attribute of consoles. Versatility is a great attribute of PCs. Both have their place.

Frankly your attempt to paint this move as pro-consumer comes off as very shillish to me.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

According to your logic, if any first party game exists across 2 generations, the new generation is the same as the old one? Even if the next-gen box has, let's say, a shit ton more power, new input devices, allows for new features like VR and allows me to play games in my library at higher resolutions and higher framerates?
(...)

I can't fathom why in the world some of you folks come up with these arbitrary rules as to what constitutes what... At the end of the day, I just want to play the damn games that exist on the platform and the more games that are available to me, the better.

Wait a second. First of all, I explained that I have a problem with "power" being the ONLY differentiator between two generations. Not because power isn't important, but because it's not possible to determine an actual treshold. Yes, it's as simple as that.

As Nintendo Wii showed us, you can actually don't change the power at all and get still away with it if you deliver a new innovative feature.

But.

How I personally define a new gen (and think it should be done) and what MS or Sony actually do are two complete different pairs of shoes.

If for example Sony calls the PS4 "Superpro" PS5, then they'll market it as a complete new generation. Fine. But the question is if their customers will bear with them if the only (!) benefit is improved graphics of the very same game on the very same disc, like with the PS4 Pro. The very same applies for MS, who at least right now emphazise that Scorpio belongs to the XBOX One family.

 

[Klart]

A "full blown next generation” Console that only plays last gen games.

 

[belvedere]

Five years is when people are ready and for some reason the industry has forgotten that. MS would have been better served to wait another year, get Vega/zen and launch a next gen console in 2018 with something around 10TF that's actually VR and 4k capable.

This is what I was hoping. The current timing falls flat in either scenario. Release a mid-gen upgrade a year after Sony and on the back end of the hardware cycle or push the next cycle early in 2017 and hope for the best.

2018 would have made more sense.

 

[c0de]

ehhh those games were programmed specifically for those consoles..? none of those games were just programmed as ONE game, they are different games programmed by different people (mostly).

So what you are saying ... is that future Xbox games will have to be programmed as a separate game to work on a specific console..and not just ONE game that runs different in accordance the hardware it is run on (like PC games)?

Wait, do you think PC game devs don't target different hardware, too? Of course not for every configuration but also not only one.

 

[Harmen]

I think going full next gen this year is a mistake that will do little to boost the XB brand. A lot of the mass consumers are set with either a PS4 or the One and I don't think they are willing to switch to a new expensive box at this point in time already. I think pricepoint, timing of the launch, state of the current market, game line-up, brand perception etc. are all just as important as hardware power, if not moreso. Xb is in a recovery phase from the initial Xbone reveal/launch and I don't think going for next gen Is going to generate a lot of goodwill from their 26 million+ One userbase.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

According to your logic, if any first party game exists across 2 generations, the new generation is the same as the old one?

Reading comprehension fail? He's saying that if there are NO (or very few) games that are exclusive to Scorpio compared to XBO that it doesn't count as a new generation. This is in agreement with accepted terminology. Only a very small percentage of the DSi library were fully DSi exclusive compared to the DS. So no one counted it is a new generation.

So basically, the Mega Drive wasn't a next-gen console, cause Golden Axe - a Sega First Party Exclusive, mind you - was also available on the Master System?

Titanfall 1 - An Xbox-Exclusive Game - was also available on the Xbox360, so the Xbox360 and the Xbox One belong to the same generation of hardware? The PS4 belongs to the PS3 generation because Journey was released on the PS4 as well? I can play the new Zelda game on my WiiU as well, so the Switch is not Nintendo's next generation?

No these are cases where one or a few games were available on both. According to the guy you quoted, that would still count as a new generation seeing as how there were still lots of OTHER games on XBO and Mega Drive that were not available on 360 and Master System, respectively.

Even if the next-gen box has, let's say, a shit ton more power, new input devices, allows for new features like VR and allows me to play games in my library at higher resolutions and higher framerates?

The Pro can do all of the bolded, and so far no new input devices have been announced for either Pro or Scorpio. So if this is your definition for a new generation I see no reason to say that the Scorpio is a new generation while the Pro is not.

A lot of folks in this thread here might be fairly young, but games have existed cross-generations for a looong time. That in itself is absolutely not an indicator of whether a box is 'next-gen' or not, whatever that even means.

Please spare us the condescension. This is about as classy and relevant as saying that someone who has exhibited lacking reading comprehension did so because old age leading to poor eyesight

This whole generation bullshit in general has to stop - A lot of folks play on PCs nowadays simply because STEAM has a library featuring hundreds of great games without any stupid 'this is gen X' assignment. With next-gen hardware, be it Scorpio or PS5, you'll be able to get games on the older gen hardware and see it run a little worse (probably lower res, lower framerate), while it'll perform the best on the latest gen hardware - exactly like what you see on the PC or Phone market. If you wanna play a brand new game at 60fps, get the new box. Don't wanna get the new box? You can still play the game on your old box at 30. That's probably how that's gonna work out.

The forward-compatibility is just an added benefit that Microsoft agreed upon and I think that's very pro-consumer: Once the new box comes out, your old box won't magically be worthless. You'll still be able to get the games that exist on that platform. Yes, they'll run a little worse, but devs will have to make sure the experience is still good. If it's not, it's the devs fault.

I disagree that what you propose is good for gamers (though it may be good for Xbox marketing). Insisting on perpetual forward compatibility will eventually limit what games can do in the future as future games will be held back by the requirement of being able to run on the legacy hardware. Even limited time forward compatibility will have the same effect. If this forward compatibility strategy is to remain the same for the transition Scorpio -> [Scorpio successor] as for XBO -> Scorpio this means that games in 2021-2025 will still need to be able to run on Scorpio. If rumored Scorpio specs are true this would be very bad for gaming as this would mean game design and ai can't go beyond what the (already underpowered in 2013) Jaguar CPU can handle all the way into 2025. I hope gamers would have the sense to reject such a situation.

That said, from your post it is now clear that when you said Scorpio would be a new generation, you weren't using the commonly accepted terminology. That's good to know. Hopefully the thread title is amended to reflect this clarification.

 

[Hanmik]

Wait, do you think PC game devs don't target different hardware, too? Of course not for every configuration but also not only one.

that is actually just what I tried to say..

Rise of Tomb Raider on X360 is not the same game as Rise of Tomb Raider on Xbox One.
Two different programmed versions of the same game. But it was produced and programmed separately for both consoles. Same goes for the other games he mentioned.

BUT Rise of Tomb Raider on PC is the SAME game on PC, no matter what hardware or PC you have. It just performs and looks differently when you have better hardware.

But Thomas makes it sound like there has to be to different versions of the same game to run on both Scorpio and Xbox One.

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

So Microsoft are trying to say there will be no more generations, the leaked document hinting that it could be a PS4 Pro like upgrade and then the Ori dev saying it's a real next gen system........... So which is it ?

Microsoft really need to start making their message clear soon.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

So Microsoft are trying to say there will be no more generations, the leaked document hinting that it could be a PS4 Pro like upgrade and then the Ori dev saying it's a real next gen system........... So which is it ?

Microsoft really need to start making their message clear soon.

Well, Thomas is a very talented dev, but he's not responsible for MS' PR. So...

That said, leaked documents probably aren't the best source of information, either.

 

[QaaQer]

Why do consoles need to be PCs? .

Pcs are general purpose computing devices, consoles are special purpose. They are fundamentally different even if they use the same silicon.

http://www.byte-notes.com/types-computers-purpose

Sony did try making one that was both with the og PS3 (otherOS). All they got for their efforts was a piracy vector.

 

[4Tran]

I think that this whole current-gen / next-gen debate is academic. The greater market is just going to see the Scorpio as a premium Xbone, just like they see the PS4 Pro as a premium PS4. The buyers are mainly going to be people who already have an Xbone and are looking to upgrade. New buyers will instead gravitate towards the cheaper model because it'll already do just about everything they need out of a gaming console. This is all very consistent with how mid-generation refreshes are received so not a whole lot is going to change in the sense of market position.

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

Well, Thomas is a very talented dev, but he's not responsible for MS' PR. So...

That said, leaked documents probably aren't the best source of information, either.

Still better to have everyone on the same page, saying the same thing though, than a lot of misinformation.

Some of the leaked PS4 Pro info was not far off, so while not guaranteed, the Scorpio leak could be spot on too, but it's probably just better to wait until E3 now for the official info.

 

[gypsygib]

Here's hoping they have some delicious exclusives to go along with it. Forza/Gears/Halo don't do it for me at all.

Even though I'm lukewarm on Microsoft at the moment a new console launch always manages to get me excited. E3 should be interesting.

Another Ori game would be great. That game was awesome.

 

[c0de]

Pcs are general purpose computing devices, consoles are special purpose. They are fundamentally different even if they use the same silicon.

http://www.byte-notes.com/types-computers-purpose

Sony did try making one that was both with the og PS3 (otherOS). All they got for their efforts was a piracy vector.

That didn't change for PS4. We all know that piracy is possible on PS4, the system has been cracked.