Actually they'll do both and they'll be too slow to counter the bad image they created before most people identify them as spam or demand they be taken off the list.
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Democrats Are Desperate for Bernie Sanders' Email List
- Thread starter Dalek
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Actually they'll do both and they'll be too slow to counter the bad image they created before most people identify them as spam or demand they be taken off the list.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Well, pretty much everyone is guilty of this in some form or another. Some in a minor way, others in a not so minor way. I appreciate that they wear their bias on their sleeve so that transparency can be taken into consideration.
Sure, which is why I think they are a good component as one of many sources. I wouldn't recommend someone watch only them and no one else.
dave is ok
aztek is ok
I would not put it past the DNC to do exactly this
TYT is garbage not because of what they believe, but because they are intellectually lazy and disingenuous. At least go to someone credible like Greenwald if you want well-reasoned pro-Bernie (well, more anti-Hillary - though what's the difference at this point, really?) commentary.
Oh god, the horror. An email in my spam folder.
How ever will I recover.
What is this, 1995?
Oh god, the horror. An email in my spam folder.
How ever will I recover.
What is this, 1995?
If you understood where Jimmy was coming from, it was likely highlighting that neoliberalism does not work for the public, and hasn't for decades. Clinton would do nothing to stop this. At worst, Trump is so bad he's an oil tanker going right into the burning house. And in the eyes of some, obliterating the operating system is the only way to cure the virus. Of course, he's far more likely to just make a bad, insoluble system evermore corroded and disruptive, not delivering even an inch of what we could even label as a "solution."
To use the burning house metaphor, he's not going to wait to get people out of the home as the tanker drives right for it. The problem is in this climate, the house is on fire. Period. Neither candidate would extinguish the flames, and this doesn't mean "both parties are the same" but that the problem is decades deep and requires far more than partisan approaches. We had a choice between neonationalism as a response to neoliberalism in Trump, which solves nothing, or a direct continuation of neoliberalism in Clinton. Nobody actually wins other than those already winning at the top. This is why those on the decline jumped for the orange con man: a change, however reasonably violent and ill-advised as we can astutely showcase, is better than the precarity that's been normalized in rural America. I have a hard time condemning the depravity to lead one to reason this way, as we've done a really bad job as a society in being accountable and humane to the people who live in it. GAF is even home to a good deal of "let them suffer" which of course is only a continuation of similar problematic themes.
Mark Blyth covers this issue far more deeply than Dore, and I know Dore has used clips of Blyth in the past covering his prescient arguments. Blyth has made similar arguments in the past, but he's far more quantitative on the issue than Dore is.
I cannot speak for TYT, though. I like Dore's work, but don't watch TYT anymore. I know TYT pulled the binary "if you voted against Hillary you're objectively bad" card a few times, which is quite annoying, for it ignores the precarity and desperation people have that actually normalizes a fucking orange sociopathic liar. That depravity needed to be gutted, because that's what allowed a literal con man to be President of the United States.
Trump is explicitly a result of neoliberalism, a war on the public, and a system that focused on a few winners and socializing the losses to the masses. Let us never forget this.
Rather than getting the list of e-mails, why don't they just use the same strategy he did to get those email addresses in the first place?
That Tour de France analogy is appropriate. Except for the fact that with that list of addresses, they'll likely burn those people with very little benefit to the party.
Clueless.
That Tour de France analogy is appropriate. Except for the fact that with that list of addresses, they'll likely burn those people with very little benefit to the party.
Clueless.
whyamihere
Banned
OFA effectively crippled the DNC's operation for the past 8 year, so, how about we don't do that.
She was a once in a lifetime candidate - when will we ever see a frontrunner with an FBI case and all-time low ratings again ya'll. And other hits like skipping Wisconsin, gotta love her.
Herr Schwarz
Banned
One could argue that the DNC can't really move forward with or without an e-mail list until they've created a platform Bernies wing can be happy with.
You can't build on a broken foundation, fix the platform first before holding out the begging cup.
I'd easily bet that Bernie will hand out an email list when the platform going forward is corrected.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
GoldenEye 007
Member
Crazy how the Democrats for campaigning directly against Trump and everything he stood for are blamed for what is happening rather than you know, the GOP and Trump.
GOP are experts at falling in line, though, and putting aside even major differences because they understand the basic concept that having their party in power will allow for more of a chance of their policies getting through.
Maybe when the Democrats understand this, they will start winning some elections too.
He's a fucking Democrat. All hands on deck. He can give them pro-tips at their strategy/leadership meetings AND give them the list. Why does this need to be as hard as they're making it out to be?"
Is Bernie serious about stopping Trump or not? Are his supporters? That's what this comes down to.
whyamihere
Banned
Because it's not a presidential year and building a list similar to that when we need to start taking back state houses, congressional races, senate races, and governorships is important and those races will never generate the same level of excitement as a presidential race thus limiting the ability of those candidates to reach potential voters?
jack_package_200
Banned
Yep. It was about feelings, not facts or policy or qualifications.
Supporters gave their email to Bernie not to the Democratic Party. Why SHOULD he share it? So that they can dick up the one bright spot in the entire party for fundraising?
The really is that the Democratic Party is a fucking disaster, and has been for about 6 years. Exhibit A, Trump. If it's nbd for an establishment democrat to raise money from the grassroots, point to one that has done it since 2008. The only other Dem that I think has the pull to raise grassroots money is Warren.
Because they'd have to wait until 2020 to generate the same amount of media attention, and because Congressional and state / local fundraising strategies can't simply be copy-pasted from presidential ones.
Why the hell are Democrats to blame for Trump, again? They're not the ones who voted for him.
Barack Hussein Obama???
Barack Hussein Obama???
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
The president doesn't just sit in a room and write policy all day. Their job is to lead. To inspire. That is part of the qualifications for the job.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
GoldenEye 007
Member
It's like 2018 doesn't exist along with it's inevitable lack of exposure and participation, chiefly among liberals.
God damn hes so real
whyamihere
Banned
No their job is literally none of that.
Carpe Libertatem
Member
You're free to think this, but that's not why the DNC wants this email list.
Data, data, data is the most important thing.
Democrats sure do love browbeating people left of the aisle into doing what they want. The rhetoric in this thread is pretty insulting, tbh.
"Don't you want to beat Trump? Shut up and do as I say!"
"If we lose its because you didn't get with the program!"
"This is about you or me, it's about the country!"
I'd almost appreciate if you guys just got off the moral high horse and just admitted you don't care how you beat Trump and the GOP, you just want to win. And you'll intimidate and shame and gaslight as much as it takes to do it.
"Don't you want to beat Trump? Shut up and do as I say!"
"If we lose its because you didn't get with the program!"
"This is about you or me, it's about the country!"
I'd almost appreciate if you guys just got off the moral high horse and just admitted you don't care how you beat Trump and the GOP, you just want to win. And you'll intimidate and shame and gaslight as much as it takes to do it.
George Washington
Member
It's as if they learned absolutely nothing.
whyamihere
Banned
Who ever said that they didn't need Bernie voters.
Then to "GIVE US THE LIST OR TRUMP KILLS US ALL YOU FUCKING IDIOT."
Some things never change.
GoldenEye 007
Member
No shit. If you're not winning, no progressive policies have a shot. How is this hard? Tell me how progressive policies, civil rights issues, etc., are addressed when you're not in office?
GOP understands that and thus falls in line and thus dominates. Now here we are.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
The sad thing is, the Democrats really don't need Sander's list. They need to revamp their fundraising approach wholesale.
The last call I got from them:
"We need your cash to fight against the Koch brothers! Can I count on your $500 today?"
"No."
"Well, we can still use whatever help you can give us. How about $300?"
"No."
"I understands times can be tight. How about $150?"
"No."
"We could really use your help. How about a symbolic donation of $20"
*Hangs up*
$20 was apparently worthless to them. It was considered a symbolic fucking gesture.
Small wonder Sander's small donors seemed more energetic.
The last call I got from them:
"We need your cash to fight against the Koch brothers! Can I count on your $500 today?"
"No."
"Well, we can still use whatever help you can give us. How about $300?"
"No."
"I understands times can be tight. How about $150?"
"No."
"We could really use your help. How about a symbolic donation of $20"
*Hangs up*
$20 was apparently worthless to them. It was considered a symbolic fucking gesture.
Small wonder Sander's small donors seemed more energetic.
whyamihere
Banned
Uh. Yeah, I don't really care how I beat Trump at this point, I want to win so we can pass progressive legislation and get things done and save our country from autocracy.
old manatee
Banned
I'm sure Sanders' supporters are just dying to be relentlessly spammed by the DNC.
Democrats really need to figure out this whole email thing.
They would probably pay Bernie yuge money only to send people shit like this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YttscNOoAjA
They would probably pay Bernie yuge money only to send people shit like this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YttscNOoAjA
whyamihere
Banned
If Bernie had won the primary, should Hillary have kept her email list from him?
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
Leadership isn't an important part of being a leader?
Count Dookkake
Member
I'm being harsh, but the bottom line remains that he has the power to do something easy and helpful and is not only refusing to, but had failed to provide an even remotely reasonable motivation for his refusal.
He already basically chose the party's platform last year.
VendettaRed07
Member
this just tells me Bernie fully intends on running again.
Exactly. It's not about the list. It's about being petty.
Elizabeth Warren is a democrat. Bernie is a democrat (wait what?!?!). Sherrod Brown is a dem (is he not progressive enough? I forget). I don't know, put the three of them in a room together and give their interns some material to work with. I don't give a shit.
Email writing is really not that hard. Warren is a rock star fundraiser. Just get her team to do it.
whyamihere
Banned
The job of the president is to get shit done and sign legislation that makes life better for people. If you're talking about "inspiring" people, then idk, your priorities seem pretty bad.
GoldenEye 007
Member
And everyone in the beginning, including the GOP, assumed he'd have no shot and was a joke. Which was a more than reasonable estimation and a solid assumption.
People underestimated how much people liked "telling it like it is" and shitting on minorities, though. Add in the GOP running 30 candidates, Trump was able to use the media to rise up and above everyone towards the end.
Democrats have lost the ability to connect to every day, working class people a long time ago, and then the moment people criticize them for it, those people are shamed. Smh. Fairly sure Trump is here to stay until 2024. I wanted Bernie to be president so badly. He's a warm soul. I voted for Hillary, but I don't have those same feelings about her.
XANDER CAGE
Member
Nothing about this presidency is appealing to progressives, but simply getting Bernie's email list isn't really going to change anything on its own. The people who signed up for Bernie's mailing list who aren't currently signed up for the DNC's mailing list aren't going to magically get involved with the DNC when they start getting emails from them. Faith in the Democratic party establishment is at rock bottom with people further left than the party platform. It's going to take a lot of work to win people over, and that should probably start with making an earnest effort to 1. show any signs of life fighting against the GOP (Schumer has made it pretty clear this is not in the playbook yet) and 2. vocally outlining plans to address issues important to the far left, particularly labor and social issues.
The DNC has done a pretty woeful job of riding any sort of social issue waves recently. They were tepid at best getting on board with BLM. The ACLU made far more noise about the immigration ban than any official party response. They approved of The Women's March from the sidelines, but that's about it. They let the GOP walk all over them during the cabinet appointment process, purposefully avoiding being seen as "obstructionist" and then letting the fight they viewed as the most important to win, Sessions, slip through their fingers, with only Warren daring to really step up to the plate and show any signs of life.
The left is getting away from the DNC, and they just don't seem to know what to do about it. Granted, it may seem oddly petty for Sanders to not hand the list over given that it's a fairly common gesture, but I don't think it'd really change much. If the party wants the attention of those people, they need to start doing something to engage them in the first place. It's all well and good to say "but there's a monster in the White House and we all need to do our part!" but the DNC itself doesn't exactly seem to be taking much action in this regard. Until the DNC proves they can fight, the disenfranchised will be fighting without them.
Carpe Libertatem
Member
I think Bernie supporters in this thread would be shocked to see how much overlap likely exists between this list and lists the DNC already has
The important part is the data that doesn't overlap which, while likely small, can help Democrats win in the future on all levels if that data can be broken down into Congressional district (or even state level). It also can provide the DNC insight into how to appeal to these people who aren't on traditional Democratic mailing lists, where these people live, how to bring them out to vote, etc
The important part is the data that doesn't overlap which, while likely small, can help Democrats win in the future on all levels if that data can be broken down into Congressional district (or even state level). It also can provide the DNC insight into how to appeal to these people who aren't on traditional Democratic mailing lists, where these people live, how to bring them out to vote, etc
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