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Hollow Knight |OT| Cute Insects That Just Want to Burrow Into Your Heart
- Thread starter dancrane212
- Start date
KCroxtonJr
Member
I got VERY lost earlier, actually wandered blindly through not one but TWO new areas that I could not find the map for, and even though I finally found my way out, I have no idea where I ever really was. I also could not find any save spots, I almost gave up for the night. Some areas are HUGE, so It's a very strange design decision.
He actually wasn't as bad as I thought when I fought him, finished him in my first try. I have been taking advantage of the invincibility you have after getting hit lately and spamming attacks on bosses as soon as they hit me, it's done wonders lol, especially if you have charms that help you regen magic faster so you can heal up right after taking damage.
edit: Stumbled upon the
Colosseum
Oh, he is. Hardest boss for me so far.
I'm not on board with the map decision, honestly. I can't see any benefit to having the player be lost and confused until they finally find the dude who gives you the map to the area (and he can be out of the way and/or near the end of said area). Not being able to fill in the map until you reach a bench is equally asinine. It just makes the beginning of new areas super stressful and not all that much fun roaming around randomly until I finally find the dude.
Admiral Woofington
Member
speaking of, I've been through two areas and still haven't found him in either of those. I'm fairly certain I've explored everything there is to see in the mines too, so what the fuck lol.
OniBarubary
Banned
Honestly, I'm really liking the map stuff. It makes my exploration so much more interesting. I have to try and figure where paths double back or if continuing in this direction's a good idea or whether I should press on or go rest at a bench to fill it out.
It might be nice to have an option for people who just want to auto-map...and an option for people like me who want the shit at the map shop to cost way more or special tokens or something so that you really have to weigh your decisions on what to pick for what you want to remember or keep on your map.
Anyways, just beat the
boss and what a fake out; the whole time I was like
and then I beat him and saw his pick-up and was like...oh. And then
Legit jumped out of my chair.
Edit: Wow that is...that is a lot of dead bodies.
It might be nice to have an option for people who just want to auto-map...and an option for people like me who want the shit at the map shop to cost way more or special tokens or something so that you really have to weigh your decisions on what to pick for what you want to remember or keep on your map.
Anyways, just beat the
Soul Master
"Oh man, we're gonna break that glass ceiling!"
he comes back and breaks through the ceiling and round 2 begins!
Legit jumped out of my chair.
Edit: Wow that is...that is a lot of dead bodies.
There's only one area so far I couldn't find him (
Resting Grounds)
Yeah I haven't had a problem with the map system, I like being dropped into complete unknown for a while and I haven't felt the need to backtrack to benches solely to write my map in. You do have to be attentive and keep part of the layout in memory though, Conifer tends to be around benches and other landmarks so keep an eye out for signs.
I do think they should've made clear that you can buy maps from the shop up town if you miss Conifer though, and he should've gotten his own signs.
I do think they should've made clear that you can buy maps from the shop up town if you miss Conifer though, and he should've gotten his own signs.
Admiral Woofington
Member
yeah some of the stations are super far away from anywhere useful.
OniBarubary
Banned
AGH LASERS AGH FUCK
KCroxtonJr
Member
What exactly counts as "missing" him though? I have about 2 or 3 areas that i've wandered around without finding the map, but they are not available at the shop. I've only had one map show up at the shop, and it was for an area that I was forced to go to because of the story, which I was able to return to town before even trying to find Conifer or exploring it at all.
I'm actually not sure (again this is one of the few things they should've clarified imo), I'm pretty sure I had the same map show up as you did and was able to find him in all the other areas. Maybe killing the boss without seeing him or entering the screen he's on without talking to him and then leaving the area.
If I remember correctly, you have to beat the boss of the area (or finish its objective if it doesn't have one) before the map appears in the shop.
I was watching someone play the game and he put 4500 in the bank.
Then, when he went back a while later, the bank lady was gone and the stand fell over. I thought it was hillarious, but now I'm scared to use the bank. Did she move? Does she come back? It looked like she ran with the money.
Steam comments seem to indicate that it's a "feature". She runs off if you put too much money in there, I guess.
Admiral Woofington
Member
Lmao
Thanks for the heads up. I'm only putting money here and there if I'm going to do a tough boss fight.
LOL
McStickenstein
Member
That's Nito. But seriously, looks great!
mattiewheels
And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
I just started this, does the map not have a YOU ARE HERE dot?
Its a charm you have to equip.
Yes it sucks. Less problematic once you have more charm slots but still weird.
The map system is kinda tiresome now. Having to find the map guy and buy a bit of it just to see the bits YOU'VE uncovered is kinda dumb.
Even worse is having to have a charm notch taken up just to see yourself on the map. Which is awful.
Other main annoyance right now is the secere stutters causing me to get hit. The water pool on the far right of the Resting Ground graveyard thingy made it stutter consistently whenever I touched the water.
Much more minor annoyance is that the first Arena challenege builds up to what you think is the end and then just keeps on going. Far to long to deal with even without the stuttering getting me killed.
Think I'd better stop playing until a performance patch comes out, huh. =P
Even worse is having to have a charm notch taken up just to see yourself on the map. Which is awful.
Other main annoyance right now is the secere stutters causing me to get hit. The water pool on the far right of the Resting Ground graveyard thingy made it stutter consistently whenever I touched the water.
Much more minor annoyance is that the first Arena challenege builds up to what you think is the end and then just keeps on going. Far to long to deal with even without the stuttering getting me killed.
Think I'd better stop playing until a performance patch comes out, huh. =P
sabertoothzombie
Member
Can I just say...fuck the Deepnest.
The god damn flying worms that just spit out more enemies can go to hell.
thx. i like how the knight turned out, other elements ehh coulda had more thought and time.
i think ill try hornet next.
made it to fog canyon, almost got blown up and noped out for abit
More_Badass
Member
2 hours in, just faced the False Knight
This might be my favorite metroidvania after Ori
Aesthetic continues to impress
This might be my favorite metroidvania after Ori
Aesthetic continues to impress
OniBarubary
Banned
Honestly, I like this better than Ori.
Ori isnt even in my top 5 metroidvanias on Steam let alone better than this. For me of course.
Its a fine game but much like Guac or Song of the Deep for example, it left no lasting impression on me, and I hated the race levels so much it made me think less of the game.
Salt, Axiom, Dust and now Hollow would all rate much higher for me. Hmm actually cant think of a 5th so I guess it does make top 5 lol
But then again im a metroidvania fanboy so I end up liking most of them. Its like the Souls games, even the worse ones are better than most games.
We are derailing the thread tho.
Its a fine game but much like Guac or Song of the Deep for example, it left no lasting impression on me, and I hated the race levels so much it made me think less of the game.
Salt, Axiom, Dust and now Hollow would all rate much higher for me. Hmm actually cant think of a 5th so I guess it does make top 5 lol
But then again im a metroidvania fanboy so I end up liking most of them. Its like the Souls games, even the worse ones are better than most games.
We are derailing the thread tho.
So if you've unlocked the door by the cemetery and have been wondering for a while what the hell that's about...
Neat mechanic if I understand it correctly, I got (un)lucky in terms of figuring it out. I doubt I'll ever end up using it again though.
Another kinda hidden thing concerning charm slots;
If you die before fighting your shade and lose your money, you can give the guy a rancid egg and he will summon your lost shade so you can fight him and get your money back.
Another kinda hidden thing concerning charm slots;
you can "Overcharm" your slots if you have a single slot open, meaning you can put a 4 slot charm into one slot. Just keep pressing the use button on it and eventually it will work. You'll take double damage though.
Both of those things are crazy. The first one is straight out of the Souls games, I guess now we know what that item is for.
The second is...what? If thats an intended mechanic and not a bug, why do you have to keep trying until it works?
OniBarubary
Banned
I assume you're cramming it in and as such it takes a while to work and then hurts you.
If intentional, that's...kinda brilliant.
If intentional, that's...kinda brilliant.
same.
Ori's ipad combat is shit, the enemy variety is weak as well. still a great title, that has some amazing moments and graphics though.
It's definitely intended, it's just supposed to be somewhat hidden. The
charm shop keeper
Followed by
OVERCHARMED popping up on the screen and a thing over your health bar lol
I have no idea what's going on with this game. I accidentally made my way into City of Tears and got stuck, then somehow found my way into facing against
who completely destroyed me. Not sure if I want to attempt that again, but I don't know how to escape the city otherwise. It's such a far runback from the bench near the entrance to the city. I think I've only beaten the first boss, why am I here...
Soul Master
More_Badass
Member
Ori's movement and its vibrantly animated world are what just barely puts it above Hollow Knight for me
But Hollow Knight certainly nails the sense of progression way better than Ori did. I've played for four hours, and there's been a steady dripfeed of abilities, mini-bosses, NPCs, new areas. I don't know if it'll hold up throughout, but they really paced this game well
The atmosphere is somewhat reminescent of the DS games, but without being so "dark". Also it uses some similar mechanics, like losing all your money when dying and having to go back to the spot where you died to recover it (which is one of my favourite mechanics in DS, I love how tense it makes the game).
It's sad because it's an otherwise great game but all design-decisions involving the map system almost completely kill all fun I have with this title. I'm only two hours in (just defeated
) but I can see this stuff frustrating me to no end throughout the whole game.
Also took me a while til I noticed that the compass is actually a charm I have to equip (contrary to all the other map stuff).
Another criticism is the controls don't feel so good and responsive to me.
Art style and atmosphere are amazing though.
Hornet
Also took me a while til I noticed that the compass is actually a charm I have to equip (contrary to all the other map stuff).
Another criticism is the controls don't feel so good and responsive to me.
Art style and atmosphere are amazing though.
Herbspiceguy
Member
Still on the fence. Love the art, but I'm wondering what makes Hollow Knight great and possibly different from the other great games in the genre?
I watched the trailer and got Ori vibes.
I watched the trailer and got Ori vibes.
thomasmahler
Member
So... I've been trying to get more and more into it and I kinda like the core of what's there, but I kinda feel like the pacing is really crazy here.
I like big games as much as the next guy, but if your game is big, you still need to pace it correctly. On Ori, we had around 400 level designs during pre-production and then went through the process of cutting everything that was just 'more traversal', while trying to only keep the stuff in that felt really good. So we left probably 100-200 levels on the cutting room floor. Sounds a bit crazy, sure, but proper pacing in a game like this is super important. Sure, we could've made the game twice as big with the content we had designed, but if you don't have enough 'juicy stuff' (in the case of a Metroidvania, new abilities and level designs that make you really learn these abilities and play the game in a new way every now and then) to constantly keep the player engaged, you're actually doing your game a disservice. It also doesn't help that the game looks 'mostly the same' in all the areas thanks to its art direction. Everything's dark and while the colors change a little, most areas still look kinda samey, which gets tiresome after some time.
Even on Ori, I always felt that the time it took to gain the DoubleJump was a little too long - Granted, we used story sequences to break up the pacing a little, but it would've been good if you would've gotten the next ability like 10 minutes earlier.
But here, I feel like I'm traversing soooo much and very rarely get new stuff, so I'm much more encouraged to put the controller away since it always feels like there's probably nothing new within the next area anyway. I've played for probably 5-6 hours now and only now got the Dash - The fireball isn't something I use a lot, since I feel like saving my Souls for healing instead - And the level design doesn't necessarily naturally guide me to where I can / should go next. That's the difficult thing with a Metroidvania: You design an open world, but you need to connect the areas in a way so that it'll immediately be obvious to the player where he can continue on with the new ability he just learned. At this point, I'm also desperate to find a weapon upgrade, since a lot of the stronger enemies that I constantly face now take a lot of hits and it becomes a bit of a chore to always fight the same enemies while never getting stronger to deal with them in a more efficient way.
In the shops, I spent around 5000 'geo' or so already and only got map upgrades and what I assume to be heart pieces - but not a full heart, of course, so again I feel like I'm progressing at a snails pace.
If you compare the pacing and flow here to games like Super Metroid or any other classic game in that genre, it just feels like Hollow Knight is a real drag. I'm really getting the feeling that they should've looked at the final layouts and then edited it down to only keep the 'really good stuff' to make the pacing feel a lot more tight. When designing a Metroidvania, I really feel like 'less is more' should be your core mantra, since the overall pacing is the most important thing.
So does the pacing pick up at any point or does it keep going like this?
I like big games as much as the next guy, but if your game is big, you still need to pace it correctly. On Ori, we had around 400 level designs during pre-production and then went through the process of cutting everything that was just 'more traversal', while trying to only keep the stuff in that felt really good. So we left probably 100-200 levels on the cutting room floor. Sounds a bit crazy, sure, but proper pacing in a game like this is super important. Sure, we could've made the game twice as big with the content we had designed, but if you don't have enough 'juicy stuff' (in the case of a Metroidvania, new abilities and level designs that make you really learn these abilities and play the game in a new way every now and then) to constantly keep the player engaged, you're actually doing your game a disservice. It also doesn't help that the game looks 'mostly the same' in all the areas thanks to its art direction. Everything's dark and while the colors change a little, most areas still look kinda samey, which gets tiresome after some time.
Even on Ori, I always felt that the time it took to gain the DoubleJump was a little too long - Granted, we used story sequences to break up the pacing a little, but it would've been good if you would've gotten the next ability like 10 minutes earlier.
But here, I feel like I'm traversing soooo much and very rarely get new stuff, so I'm much more encouraged to put the controller away since it always feels like there's probably nothing new within the next area anyway. I've played for probably 5-6 hours now and only now got the Dash - The fireball isn't something I use a lot, since I feel like saving my Souls for healing instead - And the level design doesn't necessarily naturally guide me to where I can / should go next. That's the difficult thing with a Metroidvania: You design an open world, but you need to connect the areas in a way so that it'll immediately be obvious to the player where he can continue on with the new ability he just learned. At this point, I'm also desperate to find a weapon upgrade, since a lot of the stronger enemies that I constantly face now take a lot of hits and it becomes a bit of a chore to always fight the same enemies while never getting stronger to deal with them in a more efficient way.
In the shops, I spent around 5000 'geo' or so already and only got map upgrades and what I assume to be heart pieces - but not a full heart, of course, so again I feel like I'm progressing at a snails pace.
If you compare the pacing and flow here to games like Super Metroid or any other classic game in that genre, it just feels like Hollow Knight is a real drag. I'm really getting the feeling that they should've looked at the final layouts and then edited it down to only keep the 'really good stuff' to make the pacing feel a lot more tight. When designing a Metroidvania, I really feel like 'less is more' should be your core mantra, since the overall pacing is the most important thing.
So does the pacing pick up at any point or does it keep going like this?