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[Tagg9]

I didn't see this much vitriol when the PS4 launched missing most of the features that the Switch is also missing

That's not true? See this article for the features included in the Day 1 patch:
http://blog.us.playstation.com/2013/10/25/ps4-system-software-update-1-50-details/

• Remote Play
• Record Video
• Broadcast
• Party Chat
• Music Player
• At launch, 13 entertainment services will be offered on PS4 in North America, including Sony Network Entertainment's Video Unlimited and Music Unlimited, Amazon Instant, Hulu, Netflix, NHL GameCenter, NBA Game Time and more
• Web Browser

 

[rec0ded1]

I dig Nintendo but let's be honest this is a form of an early access device. Tons of potential and no doubt Nintendo will build apps and the ui around it as time goes by but right now it's ambassador territory. It's neat as hell playing on this thing though.

 

[ClayKavalier]

My left Joycon fits a little loosely in its rail, it's not falling out or anything but it wobbles slightly if I adjust my grip and it drives me crazy. Reminds me of a loose hinge on a DS.

 

[ramparter]

Just wait unti the Directs start rolling, every month will be like Christmas and every Direct like E3. Each month a aurprise game will be released and features will be added.
Gamecube virtual console, video recording, netflix, browser and other apps, Mario Sunshine HD, FZero Online, Metroid, Online Virtual console, Mother 3, Four Swords, Pikmin, Donkey Kong, Platinum 202 & Bayo 3, Xeno 2, Pokemon, Wave Race, Nintendo Sports Club, Nintendo Fit, Arms, MK8, Spla2, FE Warriors, Mario Odyssey. This will be the best year a console ever had.

 

[joecanada]

We've seen the same shit spewing out of this guy's mouth for months now. Everyone answered the points, he never responds back. He's the definition of astroturfing.

I mean cmon, look at the thread title.

Dude paid top dollar for launch system to AstroTurf bad news ? I'm pretty sure that's not how astroturfing works unless you want to double down and just straight up accuse him of lying about owning one.

 

[Machina]

That's not true? See this article for the features included in the Day 1 patch:
http://blog.us.playstation.com/2013/10/25/ps4-system-software-update-1-50-details/

• 
  [*]Remote Play
  [*]Record Video
  [*]Broadcast
• Party Chat
• Music Player
• At launch, 13 entertainment services will be offered on PS4 in North America, including Sony Network Entertainment’s Video Unlimited and Music Unlimited, Amazon Instant, Hulu, Netflix, NHL GameCenter, NBA Game Time and more
• Web Browser

These are niche functions that the vast majority of regular people don't use, especially the broadcasting. The only point you make that is a real sticking point is the party chat

 

[killatopak]

These are niche functions that the vast majority of regular people don't use, especially the broadcasting. The only point you make that is a real sticking point is the party chat

What?

 

[Poppyseed]

this is the kind of objectivity i look for in my message board console criticism.

How about this? I just had my wife stand ~30ft away, and asked her if she could hear the controllers vibrate, and she laughed and asked if that was a joke.

"Clear as day," she replied.

How much "objectivity" do you want? And what is "objective?" Some people just don't hear very well.

 

[guybrushfreeman]

These are niche functions that the vast majority of regular people don't use, especially the broadcasting. The only point you make that is a real sticking point is the party chat

Huh? The point was the PS4 wasn't missing features at launch which it wasn't. The PS4 had all the core features the Switch is missing on day one. The list is show all those features were there at launch. I'm not sure what point you think you're making

Edit: Sorry, not trying to pile on. I just don't understand your point

 

[Tagg9]

These are niche functions that the vast majority of regular people don't use, especially the broadcasting. The only point you make that is a real sticking point is the party chat

I don't understand. You claimed that "the PS4 launched missing most of the features that the Switch is also missing". Can you give me an example?

 

[Boombloxer]

I've skipped Nintendo consoles since they demonstrated how little they care about a functional, modern system that supports online multiplayer to their competitors standard.

This sounds like it will be no different.

And what core features was the PS4 missing at launch? I can't think of any except Twitch, but that was due to app exclusivity vs it being a working feature.

Custom music, friends list, party chat, etc were all there. And best of all, you didn't need a cellphone to use voice chat.

 

[Spy]

We've seen the same shit spewing out of this guy's mouth for months now. Everyone answered the points, he never responds back. He's the definition of astroturfing.

I mean cmon, look at the thread title.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1348265

Just like when I make positive threads about the Switch and am basically called a fanboy, lol. I'm sorry I am able to criticize and enjoy something at the same time.

 

[Gaz_RB]

Yeah without any significant third party support its kinda doa. On the positive hopefully Nintendo will just make software after the switch bombs and waay more people will enjoy there games on sony/ms consoles.

People have been saying this since the dawn of time.

 

[AESplusF]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1348265

Just like when I make positive threads about the Switch and end up being accused as a fanboy, lol.

lol I'm so sorry

 

[DVCY201]

How about this? I just had my wife stand ~30ft away, and asked her if she could hear the controllers vibrate, and she laughed and asked if that was a joke.

"Clear as day," she replied.

How much "objectivity" do you want? And what is "objective?" Some people just don't hear very well.

It won't be objective until you invite me over for dinner and test it with me. I kid, I kid

 

[weekev]

OMG
The hyperbole in this thread is frightening.

Why does Nintendo unleash such irrationnal behaviour?

No launch is perfect. Each console has its flaws. But come on. The narrative here on GAF is getting ridiculous.

The narrative seems to be irrational hatred followed by people trying to balance that hatred by being blinded by how awesome Zelda is.

I feel a more balanced viewpoint would make sense. Is it a horrific launch? No, it's a solid piece of kit missing a few features.

I feel like a beta tester but I know this is what I was getting into. I actually love my Switch but if Nintendo don't fix a few of the things in the OP I'll be pretty pissed.

 

[grebby]

1. Playing zelda 3 hours straight in handheld mode is short, but I would argue that in a situation outside the home where 3 hour sessions aren't a natural occurrence, the sleep mode will allow it to survive inbetween breaks.

2. The handheld itself is actually barely larger than a mini tablet with the joycons detatch, so if you feel you need to bring both with you, you can just fit them into something like a bag or jacket pocket.

3. Handheld mode is actually the state being barely more powerful than the Wii U, as a home console it's more further away from it.

4. This is more anecdotal, but disregarding the joycon desync situation, which was acknowledged as an inherent problem with low power bluetooth devices and will have a fix in the future, the joycons are actually pretty good controllers in of themselves and the ability to just be able to have your arms free from one place to play a game is invigorating.

5. I will concede with the online BECAUSE we still don't know much about it. Online play is serviceable, but without much more info on how the paid service will benefit that beyond "monthly rentals" and the phone app, but without a lot more info about this "will it be confirmed to include cloud saving, does the phone app sync to the Switch itself so you can hear both game audio and gamechat, any plans to provide more info on the monthly game rewards, etc) That's all on Nintendo, it's dumb that we still don't fully know.

I see your point with the battery life. Realistically you're probably right, most people probably won't play more than about 3 hours a day if they're outside and away from a charger. 3 hours still seems it's just enough on the short side where I'm going to be always be thinking about the battery life if I'm using it as a portable instead of just being confident enough that I don't need to worry about it to last me through the day. Perhaps that's just me being too paranoid over battery life. The thing I would compare it to is going from my previous smartphone which had pretty poor battery life to my current smartphone which comfortably lasts me the entire day. You or some other people may be able to relate but on my previous phone I would deliberately avoid using certain apps or features because I was trying to conserve battery life and last through the day. But now on my current phone it's not something I worry about anymore. It's just a nice feeling to have that confidence in your device's battery life.

Comparing it to previous handhelds like the 3DS, Vita and DS the Switch is noticeably larger and that was the sort of size I was comparing.

I suppose it is too early to say. I was mainly referring to what I think is pretty disappointing performance out of BotW and also what we've seen of Super Mario Odyssey doesn't look too far off something that could be achieved on Wii U.

We'll have to see about the Joy-Cons and the connectivity issue. Hopefully it can be fixed with a software update. It's just a bit concerning that while Nintendo was developing the Switch that it wasn't properly tested in an environment where this issue could have been picked up. The result is people like me and others who were on the fence about picking up a Switch at launch are now just going to wait and see if the situation looks any better in the future. It's those kind of problems like the plastic, scratch-prone screen that make the hardware seem unpolished.

I think we all agree the online is bad right now and it probably will be bad once they reveal their next plans for the subscription service. There is no reason to believe otherwise.

 

[LAA]

Don't know why people were being so aggressive. Why can't we discuss areas Switch could be better it? Maybe to say where it failed is a bit of a definitive word after people have only tried for a day rhough.
OP pretty much nailed it though with hardware and OS stuff, so can't really add anything except agree with the main things for me.

While I love the switch design (I actually feel it's Nintendo's best hardware yet), it has a bad design flaw and that's not being able to charge in table top mode. The HORI stand was mentioned but I actually have a lamicoll(?) Stand which I got for Christmas for my phone mainly, but seems perfectly fine for the switch to be put on too, so there are cheap alternatives.

My other little niggle is not including two means to charge the Switch. I would want to keep the dock plugged in at all timed, But I also want a means to charge the Switch when it's in portable mode without having to disconnect the one from the dock each time I want to play portable and charge, and it's not as simple as just getting a USB type cable and using a plug USB socket, as it seems the switch charger is 15V and the above method won't charge enough power compared to what the system is using (and I'm still looking for a cheap alternative compared to a £28 official charger if anyone knows of one..)

As for OS stuff, no achievement system is my big problem with it. Really like achievements so it's pretty disappointing they still haven't added them.
Removing miiverse is a baffling decision to me too. Honestly it is one of the things that could have at least partly justified the online fee. Right now I see absolutely nothing of worth to justify paying for it.

Biggest issues with the Switch for me though is...again Nintendo. Just absolutely poor communication from them since after January. All the questions popping up about whether you could play online without your phone, Bluetooth headsets, etc. And Nintendo didn't talk about any of it before launch, which is just terrible, bordering on disgusting, for a product they intended to launch very soon. Kept very quiet about they were going back to friend codes too (and baring on mind they plan to charge for the online service makes this more funny). The joy con issue too, didn't even talk to anyone about it till after launch. I haven't had problems and thought the patch fixed it actually, but these are basic things people should know about before launch, which on Nintendo's part, just does not help their aim of making the Switch successful if they're just going to ignore people asking about it and hope people buy it ignorantly, just doesn't feel a confident way of selling the system to me.

 

[Herb Alpert]

The narrative seems to be irrational hatred followed by people trying to balance that hatred by being blinded by how awesome Zelda is.

I feel a more balanced viewpoint would make sense. Is it a horrific launch? No, it's a solid piece of kit missing a few features.

I feel like a beta tester but I know this is what I was getting into. I actually love my Switch but if Nintendo don't fix a few of the things in the OP I'll be pretty pissed.

I totally agree with you.

But it's sad to witness GAF slowly becoming GameFAQS.

 

[Jarmel]

Jesus at some of the Nintendo Defense Force posters in here.

 

[MHWilliams]

I didn't see this much vitriol when the PS4 launched missing most of the features that the Switch is also missing

Then you weren't playing attention.

PS4 Hardware Review Thread
Yoshida disappointed by low PS4 reviews
Polygon: PS4 can't view trophies offline
PS4 Hardware Troubleshooting / Q&A Thread
Did Amazon receive a faulty batch of PS4 Consoles, or was it poor packaging?
A.V. Club: The PS4 is appealingly dull
Does the PS4 lack the broad appeal of the Xbox One?
DS4 thumb sticks might have a problem?
After buying a PS4 I realized how much I love the Wii U
Anyone else underwhelmed by the PS4 and Xbox One launch slates?

Ladies and gents, the Switch is not undergoing some trial by fire that missed the other consoles at launch. It's being talked about because it is the thing to talk about.

Other consoles have had equally rough issues at launch, sometimes the same, sometimes different. This is normal. Here's the thing though: the fact that this is normal does not mean they are not still problems.

People prize different things. The combination of features and drawbacks that works for you, may present a problem for someone else, and vice versa. There is room for both sides. There is room to acknowledge that the Switch has issues, that the Switch succeeds in areas, and that the Switch has room to grow. There is space to say "This works for me, but may not work for other gamers or mainstream folks" and "This doesn't work for me, but I see where others may find enjoyment and fulfillment." You may love it. You may hate it. These are valid feelings.

None of this is ridiculous or outlandish. Nintendo is not suffering some attempted tarring and feathering alone. They will survive. We will all survive.

Chill.

Really, the Nintendoomed crowd is becoming more and more embarrassing.

And if you have nothing substantive to offer in the thread, don't post.

 

[TreasureHunterG]

Really, the Nintendoomed crowd is becoming more and more embarrassing.

 

[SinCityAssassin]

The thing I would compare it to is going from my previous smartphone which had pretty poor battery life to my current smartphone which comfortably lasts me the entire day. You or some other people may be able to relate but on my previous phone I would deliberately avoid using certain apps or features because I was trying to conserve battery life and last through the day. But now on my current phone it's not something I worry about anymore. It's just a nice feeling to have that confidence in your device's battery life.

Yeah phone drainage is something fierce when you forget you have so many apps in the background, I can comfortably tell you though that the sleep mode on the Switch is at the very least efficient. Sleep mode with Zelda just being a button away from being active doesn't drain all that much. If sleep mode without software ticks off 2% in 8 hours, I would say Zelda ticks away around the 10% range in that same time.

Fake Edit: Also everyone listen to MHWilliams.

 

[Greddleok]

OP has a lot of valid criticisms. It's why I haven't bought a Switch yet, and if the hardware issues aren't solved, I'll never get one.

Zelda is a great game, but is there a chance that many who are saying they love the Switch, are actually just saying "I love the machine I play Zelda on"?

 

[TheStruggler]

hoping some of the defence force went to sleep. Honestly in my opinion this is a bad launch and not something you want to hold next to the WiiU which was cut short for obvious reasons. I agree with most of your points.

The system as of now has nothing to offer me what so ever, the OS is amazing people say, ya there is nothing on it sorry to burst your bubble its a blank screen with some settings options and you can create a Mii which nintendo doesnt care for anymore.

The Joycons are terrible the buttons are to close to the analogue and the fact that the sliding pieces get stuck on the opposite joys makes me wonder who designed the damn thing, especially when kids will most likely get it wrong a lot.

Nintendo does not want to seem to evolve with their system with features, games and even online aka with those friends codes...its 2017 for fuck sake. The xbox and ps4 have brought features that people want that make gaming inclusive for a ton of people but it seems the older figures at nintendo has not grasped these concepts yet of what gamers want.

Will the system be good, I hope so because if this fails I have no idea where nintendo goes from here. They obviously have a lack of content as of now and please dont harp and say well omg we have the best game of this generation right now, its also on the WiiU which i could drop 150 bucks and get.

Pricing with the system is off, pricing with the accessories is way off and the fact that 1, 2 switch is 80 dollars canadian....what in the hell, it is one of the least inspired games I have ever played.

I hope the switch can turn it around but generally I think its going to be a hard sell for a lot of people.

 

[Calm Mind]

Really, the Nintendoomed crowd is becoming more and more embarrassing.

How could you not be at someone threatened by a piece of silicon.

 

[Trace]

These are niche functions that the vast majority of regular people don't use, especially the broadcasting. The only point you make that is a real sticking point is the party chat

Ahh yes, the majority of users don't enjoy music or web browsers or party chat or streaming gameplay or recording gameplay therefore we should just handwave away the problem. And why would a regular person enjoy Netflix? The animals.

 

[Jarmel]

None of this is ridiculous or outlandish. Nintendo is not suffering some attempted tarring and feathering alone. They will survive. We will all survive.

Chill.

It's completely asinine that people can't withstand basic levels of criticism of their shiny new toy.

Also looking at those thread topics made me realize how rocky this launch is compared to PS4 one. Not being able to view trophies offline? Hell they don't even exist with the Switch.

 

[Occam]

Ahh yes, the majority of users don't enjoy music or web browsers or party chat or streaming gameplay or recording gameplay therefore we should just handwave away the problem. And why would a regular person enjoy Netflix? The animals.

Or message their friends. Who would want such a feature?
You can always use your smartphone to call them directly. No need to use Switch for this.

 

[Jimrpg]

I paid US$21.95 for my Wii U Pro Controller

i can't believe its $69 now (almost $100 in Australia).

 

[grebby]

Yeah phone drainage is something fierce when you forget you have so many apps in the background, I can comfortably tell you though that the sleep mode on the Switch is at the very least efficient. Sleep mode with Zelda just being a button away from being active doesn't drain all that much. If sleep mode without software ticks off 2% in 8 hours, I would say Zelda ticks away around the 10% range in that same time.

Fake Edit: Also everyone listen to MHWilliams.

That's good to know at least, I was curious to know how efficient the sleep mode on Switch would be and that sounds quite acceptable.

 

[SinCityAssassin]

\Zelda is a great game, but is there a chance that many who are saying they love the Switch, are actually just saying "I love the machine I play Zelda on"?

Zelda is great, amazing. I've never had so much fun playing zelda as I do now, docked or otherwise and the Switch launch would almost be immensely pathetic without its weight.

But anecdotally I'm really excited for the indie support Nintendo is gunning for, I already enjoy Snipperclips a LOT, And a lot of my recent favorites being announced for the Switch makes them the definitive edition BECAUSE of the portability and possible HD rumble factors. Hell, we go at least 5 indies coming out this month on the console too.

AAA Third party support as a whole is something we still need to discuss down the line, and whether the proposition of having a compromised version of a game portable is a good enough value to buy it on the Switch. But I feel that all these smaller games, ones that don't necessarily need the power of a PS4 or PC to reach their true potential, can be more important down the line for the Switch because of how many gaps and spots they can fill that Nintendo wouldn't be able to fill adequately on their own terms.

The Switch has a lot of problems, launch growing pains I would hope Nintendo gets sorted out in a timely manner (I'm an optimist, apparently), but personally for me, the utility of the console, its controllers, its tech, and its potential to achieve that sort of all-in-one machine people had initially hoped for it to be Day 1 in some matter is why I love the thing.

 

[Hesemonni]

Mandatory systemic achievements still aren't an industry standard - and never should be - no matter how much you love achievements or keep declaring how they are

All the other players in the business have said system in place. How is it not an industry standard?

 

[Jarmel]

All the other players in the business have said system in place. How is it not an industry standard?

Because Nintendo hasn't done it.

Even PC has trophies now. It's just Nintendo being a decade behind everybody else.

 

[ramparter]

I didn't see this much vitriol when the PS4 launched missing most of the features that the Switch is also missing

This gotta be the cheapest argument in the book. "Boohoo people only criticize what I like"

 

[poussi]

The whole thing was probably due to Wii U being so dead. They had to rush everything out, made a list of things that are absolutely necessary for a console to launch and figured out a date they could implement those by. And then even left out a bunch of that necessary stuff.

 

[TheStruggler]

These are niche functions that the vast majority of regular people don't use, especially the broadcasting. The only point you make that is a real sticking point is the party chat

 

[Aztechnology]

I'm really dissapointed that we can't store save files and such on our external memory, and that we can't transfer our save data in case something happens. So if we move to a new Switch down the line for whatever reason, we just lose all of our save data? If it dies we're out of luck?

 

[Maximo]

I didn't see this much vitriol when the PS4 launched missing most of the features that the Switch is also missing

Look at the mod post people were indeed criticizing the PS4 when it first launched, Switch is receiving more *vitriol* as you put it because it flat out has way more problems then the PS4 when it launched its that simple. People aren't Nintendo bashing there isn't a secret anti Nintendo club the Switch is just a poorly launched system.

 

[sviri]

First party software! But if they don't address Metroid and Pokemon in the FIRST year then I have a personally have a problem. Also some form of Mario RPG. I mean the first party developers are now consolidated onto one system... this can only be a good thing. But yes I completely understand OP's comments, these are why I haven't joined the hunt for hardware yet.


ALSO: I'd have killed a man for this system if they would have ported all the Wii U exclusives to this for launch. What a missed opportunity!

 

[Joelstinton14]

It's completely asinine that people can't withstand basic levels of criticism of their shiny new toy.

Also looking at those thread topics made me realize how rocky this launch is compared to PS4 one. Not being able to view trophies offline? Hell they don't even exist with the Switch.

I think most people who are having a go at the OP do have a point. Most of us are really happy with our Switches, but more importantly we all recognise that it has a couple of quirks and things to work out. But we're ok with that! It's being rational. Like i wish the dock had a charging light and straight away on setting the switch up i was concerned about the screen getting damaged. But everything else about the Switch has left a really good impression. Nintendo really have outdone themselves.

But the problem is, there are already topics of most of the elements in the OP list (which you could argue validates his thread). But he is already posting in every single one of them. I don't think judging by his posts he actually even owns one. Which for me is actually a big issue. His arguments have no actual context other than other peoples experiences. So it seems to many of us that Spy is just blatantly trolling at this point. Because all his threads do his bring out the same people (including me ugh, should just be enjoying playing games really) on both sides. I read his topic, predicted the people that would post, and yup there they were. So no actual discussion does happen. It can't because of people are aware of the OP posting history.

 

[Trace]

I'm really dissapointed that we can't store save files and such on our external memory, and that we can't transfer our save data in case something happens. So if we move to a new Switch down the line for whatever reason, we just lose all of our save data? If it dies we're out of luck?

Yes and yes.

 

[Aostia]

The narrative seems to be irrational hatred followed by people trying to balance that hatred by being blinded by how awesome Zelda is.

I feel a more balanced viewpoint would make sense. Is it a horrific launch? No, it's a solid piece of kit missing a few features.

I feel like a beta tester but I know this is what I was getting into. I actually love my Switch but if Nintendo don't fix a few of the things in the OP I'll be pretty pissed.

Stop being rationale
They completely failed, haven't you see the OP title?
And they presented the perfect launch, haven't you read the topic?

 

[Aztechnology]

Yes and yes.

I don't even understand how this happened. This hasn't been an issue in decades afaik.

 

[GSG Flash]

It's a rushed console that needed atleast 6 months to a year longer in the oven.

Hopefully by the time I'm ready to buy one, it'll be more fleshed out feature-wise and have a stronger library of games(both 1st and 3rd party).

 

[Jarmel]

I think most people who are having a go at the OP do have a point. Most of us are really happy with our Switches, but more importantly we all recognise that it has a couple of quirks and things to work out. But we're ok with that! It's being rational. Like i wish the dock had a charging light and straight away on setting the switch up i was concerned about the screen getting damaged. But everything else about the Switch has left a really good impression. Nintendo really have outdone themselves.

But the problem is, there are already topics of most of the elements in the OP list (which you could argue validates his thread). But he is already posting in every single one of them. I don't think judging by his posts he actually even owns one. Which for me is actually a big issue. His arguments have no actual context other than other peoples experiences. So it seems to many of us that Spy is just blatantly trolling at this point. Because all his threads do his bring out the same people (including me ugh, should just be enjoying playing games really) on both sides. I read his topic, predicted the people that would post, and yup there they were. So no actual discussion does happen. It can't because of people are aware of the OP posting history.

He needs to own the Switch to point out those issues? I have one sitting in a dock and I fully agree with every single issue he listed. I had to spend over an hour today putting a screen protector on and fixing the dock because Nintendo fucked up. Nothing he listed is out of the realm of normal complaints. I was actually thinking of making this exact thread myself but I'm too lazy and busy. I am having fun with the Switch but I can also acknowledge that this has been an unusually shitty launch. This is a really bad system launch in which basic features are missing, there's multiple hardware issues, and only one passable launch game.

What you're essentially doing is trying to justify an ad hominem.

 

[norm9]

I only really bought this to play Zelda so, so far it's doing a pretty good job now that I finally have it. Its a pkus that it plays certain games I expect in the future like Mario and possibly Metroid. ITS a Nintendo machine and I have different expectations for it than an Xbox or playstation or pc.

With all that said, it feels kinda flimsy now that I got my hands on it. Like a thin crust pizza.

 

[Chairmanchuck]

It's a rushed console that needed atleast 6 months to a year longer in the oven.

Actually that seems to be the case with all new consoles though. Promising a lot of features, then when it launches its announced that all the features "will come out soon".

 

[DVCY201]

It's a rushed console that needed atleast 6 months to a year longer in the oven.

Hopefully by the time I'm ready to buy one, it'll be more fleshed out feature-wise and have a stronger library of games(both 1st and 3rd party).

Absolutely. I think from E3 onwards to Holidays the system will come with much needed updates and software promises. I know some are mentioning a hardware revision, but I think that's far, far further down the line if at all.

That said, I'd like a more comprehensive list a week out after the hardware has been more rigorously tested. This thread isn't wrong, just preemptive I think.

 

[E-flux]

It's a good thing that nintendo doesn't do achievements, they are a laziest reward for completing shit. And personally someone who is comfortable playing with the claw the Joycon is one of the better nintendo controllers because i can easily move the camera with the thumb and use the buttons with my index.