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Why Is China So Uncool?
- Thread starter Blablurn
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Dynamite Shikoku
Congratulations, you really deserve it!
Has China made anything original recently
BlackRainbowFT
Member
Well, at least where I live, China is regularly mentioned for things for which the word "uncool" isn't even remotely appropriate. Quite a few things are changing, but it takes time to change people's views about something (positive to negative can be immediate; the other way around can take ages).
The thing is, the list is pretty long: censorship, internal politics (e.g. Tibet), who they support (e.g., China - North Korea relationship), child labor, tight control over their population (e.g., the one child policy), people eating pets, counterfeitures and low quality products (sometimes dangerous; like high concentration of phtalates in children toys), they're communists, they have complete disregard for the environment and people wear masks because of pollution. And I'm probably forgetting stuff.
Some of these are not true anymore, some are very reductive/caricatural and some are still true.
Even if China was to suddenly become a carbon copy of European countries, their reputation would still be tainted for years.
It's like what can happen in a relationship. You might have made a mistake early on, stopped doing it for years and regularly getting told: "you always do that!".
edit: also, I'm convinced that the fact that they use ideograms instead of an alphabetic or syllabic writing system is a major obstacle to acceptance (which can amplify the "foreigniness" of a culture, especially if perceived as mostly negative).
The thing is, the list is pretty long: censorship, internal politics (e.g. Tibet), who they support (e.g., China - North Korea relationship), child labor, tight control over their population (e.g., the one child policy), people eating pets, counterfeitures and low quality products (sometimes dangerous; like high concentration of phtalates in children toys), they're communists, they have complete disregard for the environment and people wear masks because of pollution. And I'm probably forgetting stuff.
Some of these are not true anymore, some are very reductive/caricatural and some are still true.
Even if China was to suddenly become a carbon copy of European countries, their reputation would still be tainted for years.
It's like what can happen in a relationship. You might have made a mistake early on, stopped doing it for years and regularly getting told: "you always do that!".
edit: also, I'm convinced that the fact that they use ideograms instead of an alphabetic or syllabic writing system is a major obstacle to acceptance (which can amplify the "foreigniness" of a culture, especially if perceived as mostly negative).
miller.skippins
Banned
Mr. Pointy
Member
A problem that I've noticed with Chinese soft power or pop culture or whatever, is when something from China spontaneously hits that point of being cool to a mass market, the party steps in and tries to shoehorn propaganda into it thinking no one will notice. But people notice, and then it's not cool any more.
If You Are The One or Bite Of China S2, for example.
If You Are The One or Bite Of China S2, for example.
newtypepilot
Member
I think people need to realize that you'll run into a lot of problems when trying to run a country with the largest population in the world. Sometimes you cannot look at it from a western world PoV. No, the government is far from perfect, but China has actually improved a lot compared when compared to like 20 years ago.
Let's not pretend USA is perfect either. You elected a TV celebrity to be president. Not trying to generalize, but somtimes there's a sentiment that America is free to criticize other countries but never the other way around.
Let's not pretend USA is perfect either. You elected a TV celebrity to be president. Not trying to generalize, but somtimes there's a sentiment that America is free to criticize other countries but never the other way around.
Fragamemnon
Member
I totally believe this, but this article is about cultural exports and the resultant soft power from it.
Wonder how much of it has to do with the fact that technology drives so much of culture these days, and despite an amazing startup ecosystem and forward-thinking companies in China, everyone still looks to the big four (five? I like to think it's five!) tech companies for how technology is going to push culture in new directions.
If you are talking about me you fundamentally misunderstood my post.
As in unlike the guy who you seem to have me confused with, the reason I knew it wasn't propaganda was because I read the OP. I was not saying that I had just then read the OP.
I think you should make basic attempts to understand what people are saying or at least what things they actually said before accusing people of being prejudiced and stereotyping.
The country with the most soft power happens to be the one with the most hard power, so I don't think that is true.
Reminds me of when Voice of China became Sing China.
Note that this narrative is exactly what Putin is trying to push to the entire world, via his heavy tampering of US elections.
Obliterator
Member
Loathing people you've never met just because the country they live in is pretty fucked up (not referring to you specifically).
I mean North Korea is a beyond fucked up place far past what is in America. I don't loathe it's population
And_Gignac
Member
Tell them.
This is an excellent post!
The other thing is though, is that the Chinese themselves are also very diverse in their opinions on all of these topics. Especially the older generation cling to traditional thinking about the government, family, entertainment and foreign policy.
While when you look at the younger generation (especially in the bigger cities), you see they are open to overseas influences (either through direct contact with foreigners in the bigger cities or through foreign media).
paradise_circus
Member
Cixin Liu's remembrance of earth's past trilogy (three-body porblem) was translated and published.
They do, and they're shit. Actual Mandarin-dubbed anime from Japan get cancelled and/or put into bad time slots just so the Chinese-made shows can use it hoping that'll increase popularity.
chillybright
Banned
I thought full article wasn't allowed here...
Valkerionseven
Member
China just feels try hard as hell when I try to nail down a reason. Throwing money a movies in an attempt to get hollywood quality and star power but making uninteresting results. Being weirdly chill about some things then crazy adamant about others. Wanting respect in a whiny "wow your going with that huh?" type way. Getting offended by everything and releasing press statements saying so and wanting apologies.
Best way is to just relax let people think your cool through media while hiding all the horrible stuff you have done/still do. Like any cool country.
Best way is to just relax let people think your cool through media while hiding all the horrible stuff you have done/still do. Like any cool country.
This reminds me of that scene from Back to the Future, where the 50's professor looks at a part broken in the time machine and says no wonder it is made in Japan. Things change over time and culture changes too, I bet in 30 years people will see China quite differently from how they do today.
Atraveller
Banned
Didn't stop him from fellating Chinese government.
That's like saying we make the best western films.
Is touch of sin banned in China?
Hong Kong used to make the best ones, bro
I don't see how our twostatements contradict one another.
One is on the utility and usefulness and soft power, and the other is how theUS has the a lot of soft and hard power,
Before 2008, the EU exercised soft power by giving money to poorer countries in change for doing what the EU wanted, and also they didn't want an army. After the financial crisis, there was no money for such programs and the other countries laughed at the EU.
The nature of power is coercion. If you are liked, it is much easier to get your way. But it is not enough to engage in more competitive areas. For that hard power is very useful.
Chaos2Frozen
Member
If China wants to be cool, now is as good a time as any with America being bogged down by Republicans.
The West respects the weirdest things, so all they have to do is release some kind early sex education textbook explaining how homosexuality is a normal thing.
The West respects the weirdest things, so all they have to do is release some kind early sex education textbook explaining how homosexuality is a normal thing.
It sure was.
Chinese censors never cleared the movie for a domestic release in China.
If i recall correctly, there was also heavy backdoor pressure applied by China to the Oscars to ensure it wouldn't be nominated for a Best Foreign Film award either.
Langdon Alger
Banned
"Propaganda Bureau". "State run". Enough said.
Subpar Scrub
Banned
Agreed.
Me and my friends shit on America all the time, but mostly it's hating them for the fun of it and we actually like America. Kind of like how we view New Zealand and England and shit.
Pretty hard to legitimately hate a place when we obsess over the music, movies, games, brands, food and celebrities that come from there. I bet most people there are nice too.
At first the answer seemed too obvious. If I break down China's problem like a business management consultant would, I would analyze China's vision statement first, their reason for being.
What is the fundamental vision statement of China? China is a country of Chinese people for Chinese people. Let's compare that with America. America is a place where anyone can be American and the 'American Dream' is up to individual interpretation.
At first it seemed like that is China's problem, that it is an exclusive society, but Japan and Korea are also countries where people can't immigrate and integrate and they do well for themselves exporting their culture. No, the problem runs deeper.
The answer to me is the next most obvious one, and that is that while China maybe the 2nd largest economy in the aggregate, they're still a poor developing country. South Korea and Taiwan are 30 to 40 years ahead of China, and Japan, Europe, and the U.S. are further ahead still.
What is the fundamental vision statement of China? China is a country of Chinese people for Chinese people. Let's compare that with America. America is a place where anyone can be American and the 'American Dream' is up to individual interpretation.
At first it seemed like that is China's problem, that it is an exclusive society, but Japan and Korea are also countries where people can't immigrate and integrate and they do well for themselves exporting their culture. No, the problem runs deeper.
The answer to me is the next most obvious one, and that is that while China maybe the 2nd largest economy in the aggregate, they're still a poor developing country. South Korea and Taiwan are 30 to 40 years ahead of China, and Japan, Europe, and the U.S. are further ahead still.
Chinese are less insular than Japan and Korea in this regard.
The censorship bureau in Beijing has to be dismantled and the Party has to let go of prescribed 'socialist esthetics'. Chinese culture is rich, fascinating and due to the multi-ethnic composition of the Chinese population extremely varied. That being said I'm still buffled how bad original Chinese productions are, shit either looks uninspired or is a blatant ripp-off from a Western show.
If you think about how Westernised societies create a huge amount of cultural works that are subservise to the wishes of the political elite, you can see how China probably regards its relative lack of soft power through cultural exports a necessary trade off.
Imagine if the Chinese equivalent of Alec Baldwin's Donald Trump impression existed for instance.
Imagine if the Chinese equivalent of Alec Baldwin's Donald Trump impression existed for instance.
Im struggling to understand exactly what youre saying but money is hard power.
Spuck-uk
Banned
None of that stuff is exactly cutting edge, and it sure as hell isn't influential outside of China.
Name me one Chinese Band, DJ, Beer, Fashion label or city district that would be recognised outiside of China, that's what soft power is.
Yellowflashdude
Member
When it comes to western countries, why is "coolness" dominated by mostly the US and to a lesser extent the UK? Why not other western countries? Because the current status quo is very hard to shake off and they vehemently defend that.
Chairmanchuck
Member
If its about media-stuff, most chinese media/art isnt available to non-speaking Chinese.
Manhua? Thousands of them, really good ones, but all in Chinese and on Chinese web-platforms.
Art. 789 art district in Beijing, that not that many people know about, at least not ones that never went to Beijing.
Games. A lot of chinese indie games exist, but like Manhua, they mostly arent available to non-speaking Chinese.
Alternative music. Also so much stuff, but mostly played in small avenues with a dedicated fanbase.
Novels. A lot of "anti-government" novels available and other really good novels, especially Jinhua publishing has some cool stuff.
But China has those. They are just not available to the non Chinese speaking west because of language barriers.
Beijing e.g. has a huge Chinese comic scene, westerners dont know actually exists, most of the time:
Or TV-shows. One of the most popular one in the past few years was "Nirvana in Fire", which people describe as a "Game of Thrones" during ancient Chinese times. And its actually a really great show.
Manhua? Thousands of them, really good ones, but all in Chinese and on Chinese web-platforms.
Art. 789 art district in Beijing, that not that many people know about, at least not ones that never went to Beijing.
Games. A lot of chinese indie games exist, but like Manhua, they mostly arent available to non-speaking Chinese.
Alternative music. Also so much stuff, but mostly played in small avenues with a dedicated fanbase.
Novels. A lot of "anti-government" novels available and other really good novels, especially Jinhua publishing has some cool stuff.
But China has those. They are just not available to the non Chinese speaking west because of language barriers.
Beijing e.g. has a huge Chinese comic scene, westerners dont know actually exists, most of the time:
Or TV-shows. One of the most popular one in the past few years was "Nirvana in Fire", which people describe as a "Game of Thrones" during ancient Chinese times. And its actually a really great show.
America is still a much better place to live. China has made a lot of progress, but it does need to make more steps towards democracy because there are still terrible human rights abuses which are frequently swept under the rug.
But, like a lot of things in life, China is an incredibly rich and complex place that I'm incredibly ignorant on. The sex-ed thread from a few days ago made me really happy that steps in the right direction are being taken.
Have you lived in both countries?
I haven't lived in the US, no. But I have lived in Hong Kong which I know is very different to mainland China.
If we include Hong Kong, I would probably choose to live there over the US. But then again, many of the thing the Chinese government has been engaging in there does scare me.
It comes down to culture as well, there are probably many people who choose China over the US. Furthermore, they are both huge places, with varied geography and culture. I'm also a white male, which colours my perspective as well. But it's also worth pointing out, that if a Trump-like figure came into power in China, I think they would probably be able to do a lot more damage there then Trump ever could in the US. (Based on my limited understanding of Chinese politics).
It's not black and white though, and I am incredibly ignorant on many things and willing to learn.
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