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United Airlines violently drags a doctor off a plane so employee could take his seat

Why do you fly United?

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R

Randomizer123454444

Member
Mimosa97 said:
Yup ... I don't get it.

Every one has a natural instinct that urges you to stand with the little guy. It's like survival instinct. There's also something called empathy. Why would you support the big guys who already have all the power and privilege they need and more ? Don't these people realize that they're one of the little guys and that they're almost defenseless ?

It makes me so fucking sad.
Click to expand...

Anyone who breaks the rules must be one of those criminal folks. You know, the ones who will steal your stuff the second you take your eyes off it. One who will break into your home, who does drugs and lives off welfare and doesn't want to work and wants others to pay for their living. You know, the kind who touches kids in bad places. If someone breaks the rules, they must be one of those folks because I don't break the rules and I am a proper law abiding person.

Oh god I hope the fellow who resisted is put into cell like he belongs before he does something else.
 
T

Tovarisc

Member
vIbNIam.png

https://twitter.com/RoyalJordanian/status/851526371327311873
 
D

Draft

Member
BronsonLee said:
Then you will never give up your seat
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I'd give it up for the right offer. $1000 in UnitedBux is a joke. I don't fly for fun. The point is to get somewhere at a specific time. Not doing so is an immense inconvenience. Got to make it up to me.

If United had offered $1000 cash there would have been a line of people trying to sell their seats.
 
D

DudeWithNoName

Member
Draft said:
I'd give it up for the right offer. $1000 in UnitedBux is a joke. I don't fly for fun. The point is to get somewhere at a specific time. Not doing so is an immense inconvenience. Got to make it up to me.

If United had offered $1000 cash there would have been a line of people trying to sell their seats.
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Yes. I'd be thinking Scorpio money or a new 65" TV. You bet your ass I'd raise my hand.
 
A

amanset

Member
Squalor said:
Actually, you're both wrong there.

United should have just offered more money. Someone would have bitten before the Hunger Games began.
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This. This. This.

There is no other discussion. Raise it high enough and someone will bite eventually. Instead of using a carrot on a stick United decided to go with just the stick.
 
NekoFever

NekoFever

Member
MisterFalcon said:
Has anyone talked to the patients yet ? I'm really curious what exactly is going on when a doctor has patients waiting for him hundreds of miles away, is he some sort of specialist that travels around the country ?
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He was hundreds of miles away from his usual place of business on vacation, or at a conference, or any number of other possible reasons and has normal appointments with his patients scheduled for the following day, when he's supposed to have returned? I'm not sure why this is an unfathomable explanation that needs investigating.
 
Y

Yankee Ruin X

Member
Elandyll said:
My version works better because you have an incentive to take the bid instead of waiting.
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Not really they might as well start at $400 and increase by $100 until they have 4 actual volunteers (not UA version of volunteer) Doing it your way you might eliminate someone who wouldn't take the offer at $400 but would at $900 but the only ones left in the pool are super rich and don't need money or really can't miss the flight no matter the cash offer.

The incentive to take the bid is take it before 1 of the other 300 people on the plane takes it instead.
 
Audioboxer

Audioboxer

Member
Bluenoser said:
According to a flight analyst who was just on CNN, he would have been due much more than $800, for the inconvenience of delayed bags, flight delay of 18 hours, etc. She was talking $5000+. So while they may not have offered more than $800, any passenger who took the next flight should have received much more than that.
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Where did they get that?

If the substitute transportation is scheduled to get you to your destination more than two hours later (four hours internationally), or if the airline does not make any substitute travel arrangements for you, the compensation doubles (400% of your one-way fare, $1350 maximum).
Click to expand...

In terms of luggage

If you paid for optional services on your original flight (e.g., seat selection, checked baggage) and you did not receive those services on your substitute flight or were required to pay a second time, the airline that bumped you must refund those payments to you.
Click to expand...

Or at best the compensation is still to be received (along with a refund) even if you make your own transport

You always get to keep your original ticket and use it on another flight. If you choose to make your own arrangements, you can request an "involuntary refund" for the ticket for the flight you were bumped from. The denied boarding compensation is essentially a payment for your inconvenience.
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https://www.transportation.gov/airconsumer/fly-rights#Overbooking

I don't think anyone has received 5k for involuntary bumping. Government even say $1350 maximum.

Maybe these are the things that should be pressured to be changed. Always cash, and the cap to be raised. I think that's far more likely than abolish overbooking.
 
J

Jer

Member
Auto-Reply said:
I find it somewhat problematic that the amount of compesation is stated to be the culprit here, more than once in this thread.
The ammount of money/compensation doesn't even matter here, they fucked up by prioritizing their own employees over paying customers.

Plane is full of rich people, they don't even blink at a 50k offer - solution = Security dragging people off the plane!
Click to expand...

You do have to give airlines some flexibility to run their logistics. In this case, giving priority to their employees should have, in theory, allowed another hundred paying customers to fly, since the crew was needed on another flight.

I bring up the amount/type of compensation because it's the easiest, least disruptive solution. Offer cash instead of vouchers and you most likely solve the problem, with minimal impact. Much more realistic than ending overbooking, which will cause huge impact, including higher prices to all paying customers.
 
B

BronsonLee

Member
Draft said:
I'd give it up for the right offer. $1000 in UnitedBux is a joke. I don't fly for fun. The point is to get somewhere at a specific time. Not doing so is an immense inconvenience. Got to make it up to me.

If United had offered $1000 cash there would have been a line of people trying to sell their seats.
Click to expand...

The whole thing is basically a shell game - they'll offer 1k cash or AMEX gift card or whatever, but only if their max voucher offers get bounced. It almost never gets to that point though
 
B

BoogieWoogie

Banned
The passenger is a father of five and helps run a Pediatric clinic with his wife to help sick kids. United so fucked.

PICTURED: The internal medicine specialist father-of-five who was beaten and dragged off an overbooked United flight as CEO pens 'tone deaf' email DEFENDING staff
Click to expand...
 
M

marrec

Banned
Draft said:
I'd give it up for the right offer. $1000 in UnitedBux is a joke. I don't fly for fun. The point is to get somewhere at a specific time. Not doing so is an immense inconvenience. Got to make it up to me.

If United had offered $1000 cash there would have been a line of people trying to sell their seats.
Click to expand...

This was what I was trying to articulate yesterday. 800 Flight Bux is a fuckin' joke compared to the money wasted sitting around in an airport hotel for both me and my customer. I ain't even a doctor (who makes way more than me) but they'd have to offer a lot more than 800 for me to even think about calling up a customer and say I've been delayed a day. That's how you lose business.
 
R

RBH

Member
So who else is going to try and avoid flying on United from now on?

I've always had good experiences with Delta and Southwest, so I'll continue with them, even if it costs a little more.
 
P

Plum

Member
Greenpaint said:
Anyone who breaks the rules must be one of those criminal folks. You know, the ones who will steal your stuff the second you take your eyes off it. One who will break into your home, who does drugs and lives off welfare and doesn't want to work and wants others to pay for their living. You know, the kind who touches kids in bad places. If someone breaks the rules, they must be one of those folks because I don't break the rules and I am a proper law abiding person.

Oh god I hope the fellow who resisted is put into cell like he belongs before he does something else.
Click to expand...

That's not really it. That kind of character attacking doesn't work against a 69 year old doctor. They instead have to resort to calling him childish, a baby or just straight up victim blaming.

Though whatever it is it's all just justifications for their own cowardess and/or lack of basic human empathy.
 
S

Squalor

Junior Member
RBH said:
So who else is going to try and avoid flying on United from now on?

I've always had good experiences with Delta and Southwest, so I'll continue with them, even if it costs a little more.
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It won't be hard. I will just not fly United. I have before, but their prices are typically way higher than competitors', anyway.

The CEO's response to this cemented my protest.
 
C

ColdPizza

Banned
RBH said:
So who else is going to try and avoid flying on United from now on?

I've always had good experiences with Delta and Southwest, so I'll continue with them, even if it costs a little more.
Click to expand...

I'll probably still fly with them if they're the best deal for me and my family. Listen, we want them to change their shitty policies. Not go out of business. Another airline carrier shutting down or getting taken over isn't good for anyone in the long run.
 
M

marrec

Banned
RBH said:
So who else is going to try and avoid flying on United from now on?

I've always had good experiences with Delta and Southwest, so I'll continue with them, even if it costs a little more.
Click to expand...

I've never had a problem with Delta or Southwest. Delta has lost my luggage a few times and had numerous flight cancellations but they always compensated me for it and, in the case of lost luggage, promptly found it. Literally never had even a cancelled flight with Southwest though which is odd :lol
 
E

ElFly

Member
Audioboxer said:
You don't get cash in hand for voluntary bumping. You literally HAVE to hold out for involuntary to get cash. Therefore logic would dictate there would literally be someone else on that plane who would jump at the ability to get 1k in their bank account to travel 24 hours later. They cannot get it from volunteering, though. Or even if it's not "jump at it", certainly agree in a disgruntled manner, but agree nonetheless. Hence as I just said above UA cabin crew and management acting like there was NO other option than to force this man led to this mess.

3 people got off the plane for the cash who originally did not volunteer. That tells you people may well "agree" once the offer of compensation is far more attractive than flying vouchers and a hotel. Although, maybe it was best for their own sakes they agreed as not to get dragged off the flight...
Click to expand...

United is free to offer whatever for voluntary bumps, cash, vouchers, tickets, etc, etc; it is only when it is involuntary that there is a cap in what they are _forced_ to pay in cash, but of course, if United wants to, they can offer more, in either instance

they could have offered more money, they just decided to move on to involuntary
 
B

BronsonLee

Member
RBH said:
So who else is going to try and avoid flying on United from now on?

I've always had good experiences with Delta and Southwest, so I'll continue with them, even if it costs a little more.
Click to expand...

Southwest is the cheapest airline for me for all domestic travel so that's EZ

I'd boycott Delta cause they keep fucking me over but I gotta see the world so \o/
 
C

Calamari41

41 > 38
clem84 said:
Shitty situations happen. People have to work together to make the best of them. Sometimes you'll be put in a tough situation because of somebody else's mistake, but it doesn't mean you all of a sudden don't have a choice and/or responsibility over your own actions.
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"Work together" with me or I'll beat the fuck out of you and not even throw you a towel to wipe the blood off of your face.
 
K

kewlmyc

Member
chadskin said:
Amazes me how badly their PR is handling this incident.

This is the CEO's email to his employees:
Click to expand...

Hey, CEO. Maybe your policies are fucked up and should be changed. That and/or you shouldn't have planned so poorly that the flight would be overbooked (due to flying your own extra employees). Anything other than BLAMING THE CUSTOMER WHO YOU BEAT TO THE POINT HE WAS BLEEDING FROM HIS MOUTH.
 
Audioboxer

Audioboxer

Member
ElFly said:
United is free to offer whatever for voluntary bumps, cash, vouchers, tickets, etc, etc; it is only when it is involuntary that there is a cap in what they are _forced_ to pay in cash, but of course, if United wants to, they can offer more, in either instance

they could have offered more money, they just decided to move on to involuntary
Click to expand...

True, but they ain't gonna offer cash in hand for voluntary, cause Airlines gonna Airline. Given the stats on the previous page with Delta, 120k+ people went for voluntary and only 1.2k were subject to involuntary. Chances are when "free shit" is on the go flexible travelers are going to gobble it all up well before it ever gets to involuntary. It seems there is actually blogs with advice out there on how to try and get overbooked on purpose, to then chase voluntary flying rewards (often saying check in late and fly on certain routes at certain times).

DOT has not mandated the form or amount of compensation that airlines offer to volunteers. DOT does, however, require airlines to advise any volunteer whether he or she might be involuntarily bumped and, if that were to occur, the amount of compensation that would be due. Carriers can negotiate with their passengers for mutually acceptable compensation. Airlines generally offer a free trip or other transportation benefits to prospective volunteers. The airlines give employees guidelines for bargaining with passengers, and they may select those volunteers willing to sell back their reservations for the lowest price. If the airline offers you a free ticket or a transportation voucher in a certain dollar amount, ask about restrictions. How long is the ticket or voucher good for? Is it "blacked out" during holiday periods when you might want to use it? Can it be used for international flights?
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https://www.transportation.gov/airconsumer/fly-rights#Overbooking

As I said maybe that is something that should change regulation wise, stricter offerings for voluntary.

Tovarisc said:
It's DailyMail. They have pictures of doc in civil setting with his family so should be legit info. Expect to spread to other news outlets soon.
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Has he spoke to them though, or has the DM just done the DM and "doxxed" him?
 
C

commish

Jason Kidd murdered my dog in cold blood!
So great to re-read the first couple of pages in light of what has happened/been said since then.
 
G

Gotchaye

Member
Elandyll said:
My version works better because you have an incentive to take the bid instead of waiting.
Click to expand...

Everyone already has an incentive to take the bid instead of waiting - someone else might take the offer if you don't.

This is not a difficult problem to solve. You do rounds of bidding and asking for volunteers, and then when you have enough volunteers you pay everyone the amount that the bidding eventually reached regardless of when they volunteered. Everyone has a reason to volunteer as soon as the price reaches an amount they'd be happy with because volunteering just guarantees them a slot at the eventual price.

This really only fails if there's a massive conspiracy where the passengers have decided to hold out for a ridiculous amount of money which they then split. But what you're suggesting doesn't solve that either.
 
M

marrec

Banned
cchum said:
Guys can I post his name and interesting info about his past?
Click to expand...

It's going to happen anyway, but I really wish the internet didn't try to deify the people they inadvertently rally behind because it's a long dark hallway that only has shit at the end.

I wish dude was able to keep some modicum of privacy throughout all this.
 
B

Bluenoser

Member
Audioboxer said:
Where did they get that?



In terms of luggage



Or at best the compensation is still to be received (along with a refund) even if you make your own transport



https://www.transportation.gov/airconsumer/fly-rights#Overbooking

I don't think anyone has received 5k for involuntary bumping. Government even say $1350 maximum.

Maybe these are the things that should be pressured to be changed. Always cash, and the cap to be raised. I think that's far more likely than abolish overbooking.
Click to expand...

Something about baggage delay, not related to the price he paid to check. It's entirely possible his bags would have flown to Louisville without him because they were already tucked under the plane, and would have taken too long to get them.

And she did mention this money above and beyond the $1350. She went through it kind of fast, so it was hard to follow.
 
A

Arttemis

Member
Audioboxer said:
You can refuse voluntary, you can't refuse involuntary. Hence why compensation is higher for involuntary, and it's cash/cheque, rather than vouchers. Most airlines when they do it will have travellers volunteer as it is a way to rack up some "free" rewards if you're a flexible traveller. So the stats for involuntary bumping are a smaller slice of the overall pie.



https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2...t-improving/LWDavgQJvNgiAglVYnGLeL/story.html

These are Delta 2016 figures, but used to illustrate the gulf in difference between requested and forced

Voluntary


Involuntary


129k volunteered
1.2k were involuntary

http://airport.blog.ajc.com/2017/04/10/airline-bumping-what-are-your-rights/

In one year alone, so, you can say overbooking is definitely a major problem, but at what cost would there be to completely outlaw it?

There's actually quite a good Q&A in this Time article titled





I already seen it hit on earlier in this topic, but it seems if pressure is pushed to legislate overbooking as illegal, then bottom line airline fees will go up.

This was asked over and over as well



Other questions about how badly UA handled this here http://time.com/4733837/united-airlines-passenger-volunteer-overbooking/
Click to expand...
Overbooking isn't entirely the problem in this case, though. He wasn't denied boarding, he already boarded the aircraft. I can understand not allowing people onto an aircraft, but I see nothing that implies overbooking can mandate passage to be retroactively revoked after boarding has occurred.

United failed in managing their staff (the 4 employees being crammed in after the fact). They failed in properly managing an overbooked flight. They failed in incentivizing volunteers. They crossed the line by insisting a man be physically removed after he had been allowed to board.
 
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