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[PaulloDEC]

No, I'm saying that Ace Attorney is a series beloved by fans because of the personality and identity injected into it by its localization team's significant changes. Japanifornia has become a major part of its appeal.

Are you seriously saying that the English Ace Attorney series has "nonsensical localisation"? One of the best localized series out there?

I have absolutely no idea in regards to the series as a whole; I've never played an Ace Attorney game.

But yeah, the "Japanifornia" thing is absolutely nonsensical localisation (unless the game was actually intended to be set in some strange fusion of Japan and America?) That doesn't mean it's bad, but it certainly isn't something I'd like to see working its way into a generally serious series like Persona (which is the point I was making in the first place).

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

Stop being hyperbolic, almost no one is saying it's flat out bad. I love most of it but as a native English speaker I do notice more of the text-only lines just not reading in a way that sounds natural.

Thankfully the voiced stuff is mostly fantastic, the VAs did excellent work.

Could have fooled me given that there apparently needs to be two threads dedicated to it.

It seems to me that people REALLY have a problem with it.

 

[Zackat]

some of these things I remember, others I put together what they meant and didnt even really think about it.

All the VA lines are pretty damn good though imo. It deserves the critique, but still pretty good overall to me.

 

[DiscoJer]

Reading the list of things that are wrong, it does seem pretty bad. But one thing, that "07734" being "hello" upside down goes back to old style calculators. I don't think it's a mistake, just something younger people might not get.

 

[truestatic]

Ehh the exam part of the game is super dumb. If the game was teaching you the Japanese history and idioms then it'd be aight. But the quizzes just throw questions at you there's no chance you'd know. The game clearly expects some of those to be common knowledge, but they aren't. So don't ask about the American Revolution, but maybe ask about Admiral Perry, or something an American might've encountered.

A different quiz for every culturally distinct area. Let's give entire games the same treatment Captain America's to-do list got.

Cuz I'm Canadian and I have no clue who Admiral Perry is.

 

[Acid08]

Could have fooled me given that there apparently needs to be two threads dedicated to it.

It seems to me that people REALLY have a problem with it.

Some people, sure.

I also see tons of people on twitter every day sharing lines they love. It's not cut and dried just yet.

 

[cj_iwakura]

Did a bunch of important people leave Atlus US between Persona 4 and now?

Well, one of their lead editors did, but P5 has the same project lead as pretty much every localized SMT, so who knows.

Honestly I think it's indicative of their JP overlords having more of an active hand in things. I feel bad for Namba.


Personally apart from the odd 'please take care of me' Japanese introduction, I think the localization is fine. It's not perfect, but things rarely are.

 

[Basileus777]

Well, one of their lead editors did, but P5 has the same project lead, so who knows.

Honestly I think it's indicative of their JP overlords having more of an active hand in things. I feel bad for Namba.

It was probably the timeline, the whole localization seems rushed. A huge staff of translators without enough time to properly edit the whole thing. It seems like they threw bodies at the project to just brute force it to meet a deadline.

 

[Lunar15]

I'd say 80% of the localization is stellar. The problem is that 20% of it bring questionable is disappointing for a game that people had been waiting on for so long.

It comes off as an editing problem more than anything.

It also just seems unfathomable that Atlus, the company once praised for excellent localization, has so many noticeable issues with what is arguably their biggest release ever.

 

[Seiru]

Have to agree with a lot of the critique here. I grew up watching bad fansubs, and a lot of the dialogue in this game just reeks of it. This is not how you localize.

 

[Sophia]

Personally apart from the odd 'please take care of me' Japanese introduction, I think the localization is fine. It's not perfect, but things rarely are.

The script has a handful of awkward lines all over. It's not consistently awful, but the website does a good job of showing examples. It really stands out too, given that the voice acting is top-notch.

 

[Berserker976]

Huh... so, I wasn't really buying into the idea that Persona 5 had a poor translation until something on this site made me realize that one of my biggest issues with the game might be translation related. Specifically, the part about "Character Voice" (it's at the end of the examples) struck a chord. The translation often does a bad job of conveying character personalities, which made it seem like everyone in the game was just kind of flat and samey. That stood in contrast to what I loved about Persona 4.

 

[sonicmj1]

I can't figure out if Persona 4 was actually just better, or if I've lost my tolerance for poor translations/localizations. It doesn't bother me too much, to be honest. It's just that I know it could be better. I also really dislike Morgana's writing 40% of the time. I'm really hoping that there's a payoff on why he talks like he just hit adolescence.

If Persona 4 had similar issues, I think we'd have proof with specific examples.

Persona 5 doesn't just have clunky or poorly-worded sentences, it has a number of flat-out grammar errors that should not have made it past a first round of editing. Plenty of equally-complex games (some with simultaneous worldwide launches) somehow avoid these issues. As good as parts of the localization are, Atlus deserves to be called out for their mistakes.

 

[Incandenza]

I think there's a few reasons the localization has become a sticking point:

- The past two Persona games had great localizations

- Atlus's last major release, SMT IV Apocalypse, required a public apology for having untranslated text, which more than likely caused the last P5 delay as they double-checked Persona 5 so it wouldn't happen again. You'd think with that additional time and care there wouldn't be as many obvious clunkers like "He was a scum"

- The issues are weirdly centralized to certain parts of the game, namely the introduction and interrogation scenes, so they stick out immediately to people which makes them more aware of awkward lines they might otherwise ignore.

I agree with what seems to be most people, that there are clearly issues but they're fairly infrequent in the grand scheme of the game, especially once you get deeper in. It's just weird that this happened to maybe the biggest release ever from a company known for solid localizations.

 

[Isaccard]

I don't think I've ever seen so much complaining over an English localization before; everyone is acting like this is Arc Rise Fantasia levels of bad. I wonder how many threads that game got 🤔

There's a few awkward lines here and there but the amount of criticism it's getting is surprising to say the least

 

[bigjig]

Oof that's a rough translation. It's such a shame that a game as great as this one is marred by a shoddy translation (and boneheaded business decisions like the block on streaming). I hope there is some kind of translation patch somewhere down the line, but that's likely impossible with voice acting involved.

 

[Moonlight]

This thread is a landmark in people refusing to actually read the content of an OP for their hot take. People have asked 'why people are making a fuss about THIS' like five times in this thread so far and just... read, maybe?

edit: as I think about it maybe a lack of interest in reading correlates to not seeing any issue in P5's translation 🤔

 

[Give War A Chance]

I'm very glad I apparently am impervious to the nuances of bad localization.

The only annoying parts of the localization for me are "Sakamoto" and "Takamaki." Id be very interested to know why those two specific (white, foreign) characters have their names translated in a weird way.

Haven't beaten the game so it's hard to read pieces about it but that's one of the first I'll be looking for upon completion.

 

[Acid08]

I'm very glad I apparently am impervious to the nuances of bad localization.

The only annoying parts of the localization for me are "Sakamoto" and "Takamaki." Id be very interested to know why those two specific (white, foreign) characters have their names translated in a weird way.

Haven't beaten the game so it's hard to read pieces about it but that's one of the first I'll be looking for upon completion.

Ryuji isn't foreign....

 

[TheSporkWithin]

For those who are having trouble with the black on red, there's a "relaxed" theme option in the first text section which switches the red to grey.

 

[Zebetite]

This thread is a landmark in people refusing to actually read the content of an OP for their hot take. People have asked 'why people are making a fuss about THIS' like five times in this thread so far and just... read, maybe?

edit: as I think about it maybe a lack of interest in reading correlates to not seeing any issue in P5's translation 🤔

[OP links to a handy website that has compiled 20 pages of fucked-up lines and explained in explicit detail why they're fucked up]

"IDK MAN EVERYTHING I SEEN IS PERFECT IDK WHAT THIS GUYS ON ABOUT"

 

[TheSporkWithin]

Huh... so, I wasn't really buying into the idea that Persona 5 had a poor translation until something on this site made me realize that one of my biggest issues with the game might be translation related. Specifically, the part about "Character Voice" (it's at the end of the examples) struck a chord. The translation often does a bad job of conveying character personalities, which made it seem like everyone in the game was just kind of flat and samey. That stood in contrast to what I loved about Persona 4.

That's very likely. In the Japanese the characters were quite distinct in their personalities. Even the D-tier characters like mementos targets were really vividly written. Having not played the English version I can't say for sure how well they did on that front, but if it's an issue it's definitely an artifact of the translation.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

I can agree with points that the text should flow naturally like a native person speaking, but I don't agree with articles like that Kotaku one about how the fact that the game asks a question centered around esoteric Japanese writing and board game knowledge instead of changing it to a western-friendly question is so fucking off base it makes me upset people like that get a platform on major gaming websites.

No, I don't want that. I want the same questions they got in Japan. I want the exact same content. Don't whitewash/sanitize the material for other regions. Don't give me a cultural equivalent - I want the same thing, presented in a language I can understand, not equivalent content.

Yes, I know the author of this site addresses specifically not wanting to remove all traces of Japanese-ness, but this whole thing over P5 is getting pushed in that direction by people with big platforms, and I think it's wrong. Don't give me sushi and call it a hamburger. Give me all the obscure Japanese history and references (the same goes for games set in any other region). It's a good opportunity to learn something outside my own culture.

Even with that said, I don't have a big problem with most of the dialogue in P5. Some of it is awkward, but I've never found it unintelligible. It could have been made better for sure though.

This. I do admit that the site's creator has some undeniably better alternatives to the dialogue in game, like in the example with Sojiro.

I'm not defending lackluster localization when I say what we got is serviceable, but it is serviceable. I was never like, "what did he just say?" A good portion (like, 95%) of the game sounds perfectly fine unless put under scrutiny. Can it be better? Of course, there's always room for improvement. But I don't want it to go too far in the direction of removing or changing the source material. I'm all for a tighter localization (and this game could use one at times), but the general notion of westernizing games I've seen in the media lately is one I disagree with, and that seems to be where a good portion of the "bad localization" arguments are heading. I like foreign media to retain its foreign-ness. Especially a game as unapolegetically Japanese as Persona 5.

Just as an example, I think the Japanamerica of the Pheonix Wright games is going just far enough in the "too far" direction. The name puns are great - they keep the spirit of the Japanese while finding the best English equivalent. I certainly wouldn't want to play a game starring "Ryuichi Naruhodo" while having 0% Japanese ability and being completely unable to pick up on the fact that "Naruhodo" means "I see" and is a pun about his position in the legal system. But you don't need to change Ramen to Hamburgers just to Americanize the game. Thankfully later entries pulled back on this a bit.

 

[Geg]

Stop being hyperbolic, almost no one is saying it's flat out bad. I love most of it but as a native English speaker I do notice more of the text-only lines than I'd like just not reading in a way that sounds natural. They just don't sound like sentences anyone who speaks English would say.

Thankfully the voiced stuff is mostly fantastic, the VAs did excellent work.

I mean, I'd say it's pretty bad by today's standards. It's definitely the most awkward localization of any game I've played since the early 00's.

 

[Joeku]

Some people, sure.

I also see tons of people on twitter every day sharing lines they love. It's not cut and dried just yet.

To echo this, nobody is saying it's outright terrible all around. The game is still great as a whole. It really is. Maybe the best I've played this year, as far as my opinion counts.

However, the localization could be a lot tighter and cleaner. It really could. It's some early-to-mid 2000's anime-ass shit that could have evolved at this point. If you don't see a problem, it's because you're used to it by now.

This is the biggest game Atlus has ever put out and it should be better than it is, and the localization is most of what's holding it back. Thank god the voice actors are elevating a middling translation.

 

[WickedLaharl]

No, the tweet in question is actually pretty reasonable. It's mainly just addressing how a lot of people consume bad translations (like the one this topic is about) and take that to mean that awkward, clunky wordings like that are somehow necessary to carry the nuances of the Japanese language over to English. It's essentially just railing against the idea that literal, bone-dry translations are preferable to liberal ones.

Lunar remake got a literal translation and it was just the worst. Every time i think aboutout it i get mad.

 

[AtomskEater]

I don't think I've ever seen so much complaining over an English localization before; everyone is acting like this is Arc Rise Fantasia levels of bad. I wonder how many threads that game got 🤔

There's a few awkward lines here and there but the amount of criticism it's getting is surprising to say the least

It's a highly anticipated entry in an increasingly popular franchise that saw multiple delays in release, including like a 7 month gap between JP and English release. People were really, really looking forward to this, so you'll have to excuse that this gets more attention than Arc Rise Fantasia.

Also I haven't seen anyone even imply that it's near the level of ARF. Most everyone seems to agree that the voicework is good, for one thing (no Masterclass Acting videos here).

I love the game but yeah, there are a lot of points where I'm just scratching my head over a conversation or line that doesn't quite flow. Initially I thought the criticisms were overblown, but especially in text-only scenes there's a fair amount of jank in the dialogue. For as much time as Atlus USA had, I think they could have done better. There's nothing wrong with examining what's wrong and how it could have been done better.

TL;DR high profile game gets more coverage and eyes on it than different game, news at 11

 

[Sophia]

Go to page 17 on that website's list, and you'll see tons of examples of a common Japanese stock phrase ("It can't be helped") being used all over the game.

That should not happen in a localization, period. Any editor worth their paycheck would have written around the use of these stock phrases to make it flow more naturally in English.

 

[Zebetite]

This. I do admit that the site's creator has some undeniably better alternatives to the dialogue in game, like in the example with Sojiro.

I'm not defending lackluster localization when I say what we got is serviceable, but it is serviceable. I was never like, "what did he just say?" A good portion (like, 95%) of the game sounds perfectly fine unless put under scrutiny. Can it be better? Of course, there's always room for improvement. But I don't want it to go too far in the direction of removing or changing the source material. I'm all for improvement, but the general notion of westernizing games I've seen in the media lately is one I disagree with, and that seems to be where a good portion of the "bad localization" arguments are heading. I like foreign media to retain its foreign-ness. Especially a game as unapolegetically Japanese as Persona 5.

Just as an example, I think the Japanamerica of the Pheonix Wright games is going just far enough in the "too far" direction. The name puns are great - they keep the spirit of the Japanese while finding the best English equivalent. I certainly wouldn't want to play a game starring "Ryuichi Naruhodo" while having 0% Japanese ability and being completely unable to pick up on the fact that "Naruhodo" means "I see" and is a pun about his position in the legal system. But you don't need to change Ramen to Hamburgers just to Americanize the game. Thankfully later entries pulled back on this a bit.

if you mentally cannot comprehend a middle ground between "we've changed all references to ramen to be about hamburgers" and "guys, abominous isn't a word" then i'm really not sure what i can say to that?

The translation is great, it's so overblown that people are even talking about this. There must be a lot of people that only play Persona and don't touch other Japanese games so they're not used to it.

in the future, the sole qualification for professional text editing positions will be how much of a fucking weeb you are

 

[Dragonslayer_023]

The translation is great, it's so overblown that people are even talking about this. There must be a lot of people that only play Persona and don't touch other Japanese games so they're not used to it.

 

[Joeku]

Go to page 17 on that website's list, and you'll see tons of examples of a common Japanese stock phrase ("It can't be helped") being used all over the game.

That should not happen in a localization, period. Any editor worth their paycheck would have written around the use of these stock phrases to make it flow more naturally in English.

It's unforgivable and problematic, to be sure.

The translation is great, it's so overblown that people are even talking about this. There must be a lot of people that only play Persona and don't touch other Japanese games so they're not used to it.

Persona is the biggest Japanese-ass Japanese game this side of Yakuza 0 (which has a fucking fantastic localization that shits on P5's localization), so I'm not sure what the fuck you're talking about.

 

[TheEndOfItAll]

Having played the first three and now this one, I'm sort of used to this, I guess? I mean, the racial change of the Mark character from the first one, replete with badly-done ebonics, was all sorts of abhorrent. I didn't realize when I first played that one that the original character was light skinned. I just figured they were trying to appeal to a Western demographic.

P5 doesn't have nearly this level of issues, yet people are creating 40-page threads and entire sites devoted to problems with sentence structure. Seems overblown.

 

[TheBryanJZX90]

Just as an example, I think the Japanamerica of the Pheonix Wright games is going just far enough in the "too far" direction. The name puns are great - they keep the spirit of the Japanese while finding the best English equivalent. I certainly wouldn't want to play a game starring "Ryuichi Naruhodo" while having 0% Japanese ability and being completely unable to pick up on the fact that "Naruhodo" means "I see" and is a pun about his position in the legal system. But you don't need to change Ramen to Hamburgers just to Americanize the game. Thankfully later entries pulled back on this a bit.

Drastically altering the setting of a game is completely different from making sure that the game is well written. Revelations: Persona had incredibly poor, often incomprehensible writing that changed the setting from Japan to America. Phoenix Wright changed the setting but was quite well written. They're two different issues.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

The translation is great, it's so overblown that people are even talking about this. There must be a lot of people that only play Persona and don't touch other Japanese games so they're not used to it.

If fans are used to the quality localizations of previous Persona games and Catherine, why should they then be completely okay with poor examples in the biggest Persona game yet?

 

[Acid08]

The translation is great, it's so overblown that people are even talking about this. There must be a lot of people that only play Persona and don't touch other Japanese games so they're not used to it.

Being "used to it" isn't the point. The point is making a product that excels and can be enjoyed unequivocally by everyone, not just people who can parse Japanese phrases translated literally into English.

 

[Geg]

The translation is great, it's so overblown that people are even talking about this. There must be a lot of people that only play Persona and don't touch other Japanese games so they're not used to it.

Er, the problem is that the translation is worse than all the other Japanese games I play.

 

[Dragonslayer_023]

If fans are used to the quality localizations of previous Persona games and Catherine, why should they then be completely okay with poor examples in the biggest Persona game yet?

Having played the other Persona games and Catherine multiple times, this isn't worse than them in any way.

 

[Moonlight]

Having played the other Persona games and Catherine multiple times, this isn't worse than them in any way.

did you perhaps

read any of the examples cited in the text that this OP was started around

 

[FluxWaveZ]

Having played the other Persona games and Catherine multiple times, this isn't worse than them in any way.

I've done the same, and I can definitely say P5's is worse. You won't see many examples like what you're seeing from that site in Persona 4 or Catherine.

 

[Joeku]

Having played the first three and now this one, I'm sort of used to this, I guess? I mean, the racial change of the Mark character from the first one, replete with badly-done ebonics, was all sorts of abhorrent. I didn't realize when I first played that one that the original character was light skinned. I just figured they were trying to appeal to a Western demographic.

P5 doesn't have nearly this level of issues, yet people are creating 40-page threads and entire sites devoted to problems with sentence structure. Seems overblown.

Again; this isn't in a goddamn vacuum. Persona 5 doesn't exist in a translititatory bubble. It's the biggest game put out by this company, looked at by people both familar and unfamiliar with the series, and it's seen to be lacking as far as a translation goes. You being used to bullshit doesn't make bullshit any less bullshitty. So how is it then overblown? Be specific.

 

[YianGaruga]

Having played the other Persona games and Catherine multiple times, this isn't worse than them in any way.

It very, very clearly is.

I don't remember P4 making up words

 

[Dice//]

Drastically altering the setting of a game is completely different from making sure that the game is well written. Revelations: Persona had incredibly poor, often incomprehensible writing that changed the setting from Japan to America. Phoenix Wright changed the setting but was quite well written. They're two different issues.

I always wonder if that's a direction they...sorta regret nowadays. Names is one thing (translating Japanese name-puns would be the surest way to kill one of the biggest running gags in the series for goofy-semi-appropriate names). But I feel like they know they've kinda written themselves into a corner with the setting.

Hey let's go to this temple, it's got a "Japanese theme" to it (y'know not because this is Japan or anything).

*sigh*.

Really wish we'd get more interviews from the localizers. Too many game interviews are your vanilla-standard "what inspired this game" sorta things.

 

[Dragonslayer_023]

did you perhaps

read any of the examples cited in the text that this OP was started around

Yeah, it's built around a bunch of false premises that are reaching so far I can't believe someone made a whole site for them. Like why are people complaining about this, I don't understand.

 

[Lunar15]

It's kinda sad that the one guy I'd like to hear chime in on this the most is also the one who definitely (and understandably) won't.

 

[Joeku]

Yeah, it's built around a bunch of false premises that are reaching so far I can't believe someone made a whole site for them. Like why are people complaining about this, I don't understand.

*jerkoff motion*, then?

Read and respond, my dude. Just try it.

 

[YianGaruga]

Yeah, it's built around a bunch of false premises that are reaching so far I can't believe someone made a whole site for them. Like why are people complaining about this, I don't understand.

Good thing the site addresses you specifically!

“There's nothing wrong.”

At the end of the day, this is the hardest defense to address. At the same time, it's also the easiest.

One reason someone might use this defense is that they genuinely don't see a problem, because to them those flaws aren't flaws. And that's valid, so long as they accept other people's right to believe otherwise.

Another reason stems from the fear people have to acknowledge mistakes in the things they like. After all, liking something flawed might mean one's opinion is bad or wrong. Or maybe acknowledging the mistakes will ruin the enjoyment entirely.

The default response is often defensiveness: those mistakes aren't serious, or they don't exist at all.

If this instinct ever grabs you, just remember: it's entirely possible to enjoy translated media and still demand that publishers do better. Because the work deserves it, and so do we.

 

[WickedLaharl]

I don't think I've ever seen so much complaining over an English localization before; everyone is acting like this is Arc Rise Fantasia levels of bad. I wonder how many threads that game got 🤔

There's a few awkward lines here and there but the amount of criticism it's getting is surprising to say the least

The translation is great, it's so overblown that people are even talking about this. There must be a lot of people that only play Persona and don't touch other Japanese games so they're not used to it.

I promise that people (correctly in this case) pointing out and discussing issues about your new favorite game won't kill you.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

I always wonder if that's a direction they...sorta regret nowadays. Names is one thing (translating Japanese name-puns would be the surest way to kill one of the biggest running gags in the series for goofy-semi-appropriate names). But I feel like they know they've kinda written themselves into a corner with the setting.

Hey let's go to this temple, it's got a "Japanese theme" to it (y'know not because this is Japan or anything).

*sigh*.

Really wish we'd get more interviews from the localizers. Too many game interviews are your vanilla-standard "what inspired this game" sorta things.

In regards to Ace Attorney: search for Janet Hsu blogs on Capcom Unity. She's written a ton about localization in the AA series. One of them does, indeed, write about how they regret the choice of making the series take place in America instead of Japan, and that they would do it differently if the games were localized nowadays. Still, she knows it's part of the charm of the series now, and they're continuing along with it.

 

[Matt Attack]

Yeah, it's built around a bunch of false premises that are reaching so far I can't believe someone made a whole site for them. Like why are people complaining about this, I don't understand.

Calling out blatant failures in sentence composition and nonexistent words is so far from reaching that I don't even know where to begin with this. Just because P5's localization isn't as bad as something like the infamous Sword Art Online Vita one doesn't mean we can't call it out for what it does wrong.

 

[StarSketch]

It very, very clearly is.

I don't remember P4 making up words

?