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[Joeku]

They're hit or miss. FE: Awakening had plenty of issues, too.

As I've only gotten a couple hours into that, I can't disagree with you there.

However, Metal Gear Rising is maybe the best Japanese-to-English game script I've ever experienced, and that was almost entirely at their hands. So if they do have their lows, they definitely have their highs.

 

[Wink]

He's a professional translator, and many of the examples on the page come from other professional translators and not just this one guy.

Wasn't implying that he's alone in this, but didn't want to overgeneralize either. Not even saying he's wrong, but the translation's just not deserving of as much flak as it's given. It's unfortunate when errors happen and as mentioned I appreciate that people care, but it's just a little too much pointing fingers for my taste.

 

[duckroll]

i ordered steak at a restaurant and noticed it was kinda lukewarm. i mean, i still ate it. but what can you do, it was still edible.

It truly couldn't be helped.

 

[Stumpokapow]

i ordered steak at a restaurant and noticed it was kinda lukewarm. i mean, i still ate it. but what can you do, it was still edible.

I ordered suteki at a rumored restaurant noticed the warmth was a little absent... I mean, What awful society it's become. I mean, I didn't ated this scum. But it can't be helped, it was still edible.

 

[Joeku]

Wasn't implying that he's alone in this, but didn't want to overgeneralize either. Not even saying he's wrong, but the translation's just not deserving of as much flak as it's given. It's unfortunate when errors happen and as mentioned I appreciate that people care, but it's just a little too much pointing fingers for my taste.

Pointing fingers at what? That we all want it to be better (but everyone already likes it)? What are you actually getting at?

 

[Phu]

Let us not forget:

In a statement, Atlus said ”the Japanese release of Persona 5 smashed all our expectations, and as a company, we decided that we owed our fans the very best effort to make Persona 5 our gold standard in localization. Practically, this means redoubling our QA and localization efforts, even returning to the studio to record previously unvoiced lines."

”We don't want to rush this game," the statement adds. ”And in this case, it meant we needed to move the release back for the last time."

_____________________________
_____________________________

I ordered suteki at a rumored restaurant noticed the warmth was a little absent... I mean, What awful society it's become. I mean, I didn't ated this scum. But it can't be helped, it was still edible.

I read this shit like three times before I realized you were copying what you quoted

 

[Wink]

I ordered suteki at a rumored restaurant noticed the warmth was a little absent... I mean, What awful society it's become. I mean, I didn't ated this scum. But it can't be helped, it was still edible.

Poetic.

 

[Korigama]

They're hit or miss. FE: Awakening had plenty of issues, too.

I don't recall any issues that stood out in particular with Awakening. The original localization for Gunvolt, however, would be a valid example on 3DS.

Overall, though, I would say that their weaker efforts are the exception and not the rule.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

People giving this a pass because they really like the game is repulsive. How uncritical can the Persona fantasy get? If they really like the game they should want it to be better, not inmune to balanced good-willed criticism. So childishly protective.

Bingo

I mean, have 250 hours on it and the platinum trophy, the art book, etc. BUT I also have N1 on the JLPT and have been in translation/loc for 6 years. The ball was dropped here.

 

[Quasar]

Great site. It hurts my soul as someone that has spent the last 2 years of his life learning Japanese that I'm seeing folks elsewhere conflating these criticisms as "SJWs angry they couldn't get their hands on Persona 5's literal translation".

I think I'm going to be sick...

Weird. I guess SJW is morphing into slur with no meaning then.That was fast.

 

[Wink]

Pointing fingers at what? That we all want it to be better (but everyone already likes it)? What are you actually getting at?

That I don't feel it's as big a problem as it's made to be. I don't mind that it's a little off. It's a massive game, there's a lot of passion in the translation and I appreciate the localizers efforts much more than I'm inclined to complain away.

 

[Kinsei]

Weird. I guess SJW is morphing into slur with no meaning then.That was fast.

It's been that way for a couple of years now.

 

[Alucrid]

That I don't feel it's as big a problem as it's made to be. I don't mind that it's a little off. It's a massive game, there's a lot of passion in the translation and I appreciate the localizers efforts much more than I'm inclined to complain away.

why do you not want persona 6 to be a better game?

 

[jonjonaug]

why do you not want persona 6 to be a better game?

It would be cool if the translation were revisited in a theoretical "Persona 5 Crimson". The Devil Survivor 2 remake for the 3DS had fixes and changes made in the English script, so there is a record for this.

 

[Joeku]

That I don't feel it's as big a problem as it's made to be. I don't mind that it's a little off. It's a massive game, there's a lot of passion in the translation and I appreciate the localizers efforts much more than I'm inclined to complain away.

why do you not want persona 6 to be a better game?

This is about what I'd say, because again, it seems like you're not saying it's wrong, but rather that you care less. So...why would you not rather it have been better, and would you not want it to improve in Golden/FES versions of P5/future Persona games?

 

[Wink]

why do you not want persona 6 to be a better game?

I'll just repeat myself: I appreciate the passion with which of you who are on the side of "loca is bad" are treating this, but for me it didn't take away one bit from the experience, so therefore I wouldn't mind if it was the exact same level of quality in P6, no.

 

[Phu]

I'll just repeat myself: I appreciate the passion with which of you who are on the side of "loca is bad" are treating this, but for me it didn't take away one bit from the experience, so therefore I wouldn't mind if it was the exact same level of quality in P6, no.

You take your shikataganai-ing very seriously.

 

[Alucrid]

I'll just repeat myself: I appreciate the passion with which of you who are on the side of "loca is bad" are treating this, but for me it didn't take away one bit from the experience, so therefore I wouldn't mind if it was the exact same level of quality in P6, no.

"Could it be better? Sure. But why does it have to be?"

 

[MattKeil]

That I don't feel it's as big a problem as it's made to be. I don't mind that it's a little off. It's a massive game, there's a lot of passion in the translation and I appreciate the localizers efforts much more than I'm inclined to complain away.

So shoddy work is okay if the job is really big.

Oh wait, no, it's just shoddy work. P5's English localization is not remotely acceptable. It's comprehensible and playable, but it's not up to snuff by any stretch of the imagination to anyone with actual standards. It's very noticeable from the start of the game. The fact that many of the borderline gibberish lines are actually voiced is mind-boggling. I agree with people theorizing that some mandate was in place from Atlus Japan, because there's no way a voice actor reads some of those lines and doesn't suggest "Hey, maybe let me take a shot at making this sound like something a human would say?"

 

[Joeku]

I'll just repeat myself: I appreciate the passion with which of you who are on the side of "loca is bad" are treating this, but for me it didn't take away one bit from the experience, so therefore I wouldn't mind if it was the exact same level of quality in P6, no.

Firstly, nobody is saying it's outright bad. This isn't some 2003 shovelware. We are saying it could be better.

Secondly, I wish I was in your shoes, because if I could be so easily and completely satisfied by such occasional missteps, I would enjoy my entertainment a lot more than I do. But the P5 localization could be a lot fucking more cleanly localized, and we'd all (you included) be better served by that.

 

[Quasar]

It's been that way for a couple of years now.

Well it always seemed to have some meaning to me, but connecting I guess social progressives to people wanting more literal translations leaves me scratching my head.

Its like SJW has become 'people I disagree with'.

 

[Stumpokapow]

I'll just repeat myself: I appreciate the passion with which of you who are on the side of "loca is bad" are treating this, but for me it didn't take away one bit from the experience, so therefore I wouldn't mind if it was the exact same level of quality in P6, no.

No offence, but are you a native English speaker?

 

[Joeku]

Well it always seemed to have some meaning to me, but connecting I guess social progressives to people wanting more literal translations leaves me scratching my head.

Its like SJW has become 'people I disagree with'.

SJWs are problematic, and their antics are unforgivable. It can't be helped.

 

[WaterAstro]

Finished the game in Japanese with English subtitled.

I find it all fine and not detrimental to my experience, and I can figure out what dialogue are not literal translations.

 

[Alucrid]

Well it always seemed to have some meaning to me, but connecting I guess social progressives to people wanting more literal translations leaves me scratching my head.

Its like SJW has become 'people I disagree with'.

The other question is wouldn't someone who wanted a more literal translation be happier with the one we got?

 

[TheBryanJZX90]

That I don't feel it's as big a problem as it's made to be. I don't mind that it's a little off. It's a massive game, there's a lot of passion in the translation and I appreciate the localizers efforts much more than I'm inclined to complain away.

People care about different things. I don't care about frame rate and all of the hyperbolic complaining about Dragons Dogma pissed me off, but that doesn't mean that Dogma was 60fps.

 

[Joeku]

Finished the game in Japanese with English subtitled.

I find it all fine and not detrimental to my experience, and I can figure out what dialogue are not literal translations.

I mean, we can all figure it out. It's not nonsense. It's just sloppy at times. The more formal a character is by nature, though, the less their lines read as literal translations; Makoto and Yusuke come off as more genuine for this reason, mostly.

The other question is wouldn't someone who wanted a more literal translation be happier with the one we got?

Also, again, this. What fucking reason would anyone have for it to not be better?

 

[MattKeil]

I do find it odd that none of the "Standard Japanese Translation Phrases" articles or complaints ever seem to call out the one that always stands out to me, which is "I'm counting on you!" or "I'll be counting on you!", especially used in sort of a cheerleading yet passive aggressive "don't fuck this up" way. I'm sure it's some standard idiom in Japanese but it's seemingly always translated that way and I don't think I've ever heard an English speaker say that phrase in that manner to anyone, ever, in four decades of speaking English. Like "it can't be helped," there has to be a better way of putting it, or at least a few variations that could be used.

 

[Tookay]

I do find it odd that none of the "Standard Japanese Translation Phrases" articles or complaints ever seem to call out the one that always stands out to me, which is "I'm counting on you!" or "I'll be counting on you!", especially used in sort of a cheerleading yet passive aggressive "don't fuck this up" way. I'm sure it's some standard idiom in Japanese but it's seemingly always translated that way and I don't think I've ever heard an English speaker say that phrase in that manner to anyone, ever, in four decades of speaking English. Like "it can't be helped," there has to be a better way of putting it, or at least a few variations that could be used.

That + "Let's do our best!"

 

[Joeku]

I do find it odd that none of the "Standard Japanese Translation Phrases" articles or complaints ever seem to call out the one that always stands out to me, which is "I'm counting on you!" or "I'll be counting on you!", especially used in sort of a cheerleading yet passive aggressive "don't fuck this up" way. I'm sure it's some standard idiom in Japanese but it's seemingly always translated that way and I don't think I've ever heard an English speaker say that phrase in that manner to anyone, ever, in four decades of speaking English. Like "it can't be helped," there has to be a better way of putting it, or at least a few variations that could be used.

There really should be a blanket ban on literal translations (I doubt that isn't a literal one) like that and the "Unforgivable" stuff and the "It can't be helped" stuff. It's just so fucking rote that it immediately takes me out of whatever it is that was supposed to be translated because the moment I see that phrase I immediately think translation. It's become a distraction.

 

[Jiraiza]

Jesus, red is not the color you want to be using if you want people to read your content.

 

[Wink]

Secondly, I wish I was in your shoes, because if I could be so easily and completely satisfied by such occasional missteps, I would enjoy my entertainment a lot more than I do. But the P5 localization could be a lot fucking more cleanly localized, and we'd all (you included) be better served by that.

I certainly won't argue against better, but for the sake of explaining my perspective, I think a little less than squeaky clean is charming as long as the heart of the matter is in the right place. I also agree that in this case ignorance is bliss

 

[Shouta]

I do find it odd that none of the "Standard Japanese Translation Phrases" articles or complaints ever seem to call out the one that always stands out to me, which is "I'm counting on you!" or "I'll be counting on you!", especially used in sort of a cheerleading yet passive aggressive "don't fuck this up" way. I'm sure it's some standard idiom in Japanese but it's seemingly always translated that way and I don't think I've ever heard an English speaker say that phrase in that manner to anyone, ever, in four decades of speaking English. Like "it can't be helped," there has to be a better way of putting it, or at least a few variations that could be used.

I bet you've actually heard "I'll be counting on you" or some variation on it but can't recall when. I know I've heard it and probably used it a few times. It's really not that strange at all. It's just there's a ton of other ways to say the same thing and the fact it's repeated like crazy in lazy ass translations makes it stand out like a sour thumb.

 

[Lynx_7]

Jesus, red is not the color you want to be using if you want people to read your content.

(There is an optional grey theme if the red is difficult to read. Click on "Toggle theme: Relaxed" in the first section)

Literally bolded after the website's link. As expected from the members of the Neogaf forum. I guess it can't be helped.

Spoiler

/jk

 

[TheSporkWithin]

I'll just repeat myself: I appreciate the passion with which of you who are on the side of "loca is bad" are treating this, but for me it didn't take away one bit from the experience, so therefore I wouldn't mind if it was the exact same level of quality in P6, no.

It's not a question of detracting from the experience necessarily. It's that you could have had a better experience. The fact that you don't know how much better the original Japanese script was doesn't mean that the comparatively dry lines that ended up in the English script are fine as translations. A translation doesn't need to be horrendously garbled in order to fail to live up to the standards of the original work.

The translation is serviceable and it's certainly possible to enjoy the game as it is – I would never argue that this is as damaged as titles have been in the past (Xenogears comes to mind). But the original Japanese is much better, and this is a flagship title. It should have been perfect. You may not be aware of how far off from perfect it is, but that doesn't mean that it can't be better.

 

[LiquidSolid]

I turned a blind eye to the localisation issues for most of the game, even though I did sometimes notice them, but last night I encountered a scene (which I won't date because it's tied to a major story event) that took me completely out of the game. There's two characters talking to each other except they're not really talking to each other, they're delivering a monologue instead. This localisation just isn't good enough, especially for a game of Persona 5's quality.

 

[Samaritan]

The only part of the localization that really rubbed me the wrong way was the inaccurate and sometimes inconsistent pronunciation of names. How or why the voice actors were told to pronounce them the ways they did sometimes is beyond me.

 

[MattKeil]

I bet you've actually heard "I'll be counting on you" or some variation on it but can't recall when. I know I've heard it and probably used it a few times. It's really not that strange at all. It's just there's a ton of other ways to say the same thing and the fact it's repeated like crazy in lazy ass translations makes it stand out like a sour thumb.

It's possible someone has said it to me maybe one or two times in my entire life, but I certainly can't recall any specific instances. And if it had happened in the last 10-15 years I definitely would remember it, because the phrase has annoyed me in anime and game localizations for at least that long.

It's all in your hands now
It's up to you now
Don't let us down
Try not to screw this up

I mean anything else. Five minutes of thought. Hell, even "Good luck" does the job, really.

 

[Kuriboi2k6]

I can see some of these as being an issue..

but damn if this isn't the most nitpicky thing I've come across on Gaf

 

[Jiraiza]

Literally bolded after the website's link. As expected from the members of the Neogaf forum. I guess it can't be helped.

Spoiler

/jk

Meh, having red be the default is still pretty terrible. There's a reason why I never bothered to look at the official P5 website because RED RED RED.

Back to the topic, I think I hate the translations for the texting between the members of the group the most. Talk about super stilted.

 

[Wink]

No offence, but are you a native English speaker?

None taken. Thankfully I'm not, would have much more trouble learning japanese
I've been consuming basically all my entertainment in english though for the past decade so I'm fully aware that parts of the game are unnatural sounding, but you might be implying that's why I don't mind as much and could be absolutely correct.

 

[danm999]

I bet you've actually heard "I'll be counting on you" or some variation on it but can't recall when. I know I've heard it and probably used it a few times. It's really not that strange at all. It's just there's a ton of other ways to say the same thing and the fact it's repeated like crazy in lazy ass translations makes it stand out like a sour thumb.

 

[Joeku]

I certainly won't argue against better, but for the sake of explaining my perspective, I think a little less than squeaky clean is charming as long as the heart of the matter is in the right place. I also agree that in this case ignorance is bliss

I'm actually going to disagree on this point, because despite the heart being in the right place, there's a very heavy line leading right into the boss fight of the fourth palace that I said to myself ahead of time and correctly called, and it was goddamn weak and predictable regardless. A non-literal translation at that moment would have lended more heart and emotion to that moment, which felt like it was supposed to be one of the heaviest of the 50-ish hours of the game I've played so far. Instead, because of the overuse of a phrase, it landed like a wet fart and instead of making my blood boil, it made me shrivel.

Spoiler

Futaba shouting "I WON'T FORGIVE YOU" at her Sphinx-mom was the most obvious fucking thing.

That moment could have been amazing, but the predictability in the lameness of the translation sucked the life out of it. It was literal, and it was weakened by that.

The only part of the localization that really rubbed me the wrong way was the inaccurate and sometimes inconsistent pronunciation of names. How or why the voice actors were told to pronounce them the ways they did sometimes is beyond me.

There has been specific messaging that the pronounciation of some things was dicated by AtlusJP management thinking that western people wanted to hear names a certain way, and that was it. It's hubris and bullshit in the classic Japanese style.

 

[Shouta]

Thank god someone noticed. =o

Or are you just pointing out that scene from airplane?

 

[danm999]

Thank god someone noticed. =o

I was like is everyone gonna let this pitch sail over the plate?

 

[Lord Phol]

I haven't played the game yet or really followed the ongoing debate but this was quite an interesting read, thanks for linking!

 

[Joeku]

I can see some of these as being an issue..

but damn if this isn't the most nitpicky thing I've come across on Gaf

You're not the first to say that, but can you clarify what you mean by that? What is nitpicky?

Because, at any point if you could take a screenshot of a game (Atlas' stupid restrictions aside) and point at that and go "this is a shoddy translation", that seems valid to me. That it happens many, many times over the course of a lengthy-ass game cements it, rather than makes it a weird happenstance.

So, can you be more specific?

 

[Wink]

But the original Japanese is much better, and this is a flagship title. It should have been perfect. You may not be aware of how far off from perfect it is, but that doesn't mean that it can't be better.

Understood. I'd be the first to tell anyone to consume anything in its original language if at all possible since I long gave up on the idea of translations, even the very best ones, being anything but the best try at conveying something that might just be impossible to fully convey.

 

[Joeku]

Understood. I'd be the first to tell anyone to consume anything in its original language if at all possible since I long gave up on the idea of translations, even the very best ones, being anything but the best try at conveying something that might just be impossible to fully convey.

Yeah, while it would be great if a Japanese game about Japanese social issues could be perfectly understood in English (or whatever language), that will never be the case. We'd all need to learn Japanese to experience a game like this the way it was really meant to be played.

 

[Shengar]

Translation is:

Adapting text from one language to another
Ensuring that the adapted text is faithful to the creator's original intent

This passage in itself is already debateable. What constitute Creator's original intent? For example when translating a prose, does the structure of itself is what intended by author? Or was it the content of the prose itself? The thing is, different language use different methods to convey meaning. Some can rely heavily on Proverbs and wordplay which most of the time borderline impossible to be translated fully without compromise.

There's always debate in regard to this. Richard Pevear and Larissa Volokhonsky is a translator couple who done a lot work translating Russian classics into english. They done a great job in my opinion and I always look for them by the default if I am about to buy a Russia classics. However to my surprise there are people who don't like them because their translation focused too much on the prose literary beauty instead of the idea behind them.

In the context of Persona 5, I guess that P Studio really ramp up their writing and ended up using literary intricacies that is unique to Japanese. The localization project manager who is a Japanese himself decided that it was the structure that's most important. There are greater barrier in Persona 5 than the previous games and directly comparing them wouldn't really help.

Honestly though, I never feel read or hear anything that sounds awkward, besides Yusuke that constantly going non sequitur (but it is in his character so I guess that's intentional). All what the character said and written makes sense if you understand the situation surrounding. I dunno, perhaps because I'm always play games in foreign language since the beginning of time already accustomed me to read text on contextual basis by default. Also actually play the game itself maybe helps too *shrugs