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[Dineren]

He can do what he wants, but it seems foolish since it just means that people are going to use a fan-translation which has no oversight from him. I thought I recall a publisher (maybe it was playism) that offered to let him have final approval on the script, but he still turned them down. Seems like that would be a much better deal than just having people experiencing an unofficial translation, though maybe I'm not remembering that correctly.

I can't hate too much though, his games are great, I'm just a bit salty about getting hyped for the Playism release just to have it be in Japanese.

 

[@MUWANdo]

Aren't the fans of this kind of stuff always talking about how their waifus are too pure for filthy localizers and how the English language sucks all of the meaning out of everything? The creator just happens to agree with them this time.

It's not just that, it's also a combination of "overseas fans seem to be translating my games just fine on their own" and "time spent localising old games is time that could be spent making new ones".

Put simply: he doesn't want to do it himself, he doesn't want anyone else to do it, he doesn't see a need for it and he doesn't care that he's potentially losing out financially by doing nothing.

 

[Lebon14]

Enjoy not making money and having people fan-translate/pirate your game.

You know, I've never seen him bothered with piracy, like, ever? He never seem bothered with things like DRM or anything. So, I just guess that he trust people to buy his game instead of pirating it.

He's the creator and all but seems pretty stupid to not allow translations. I mean couldn't he always oversee them?

I always saw that this has to be the main compromise he could do. People could fan-translate and then he could review the translation. But, unfortunately, he doesn't feel that way.

It's not just that, it's also a combination of "overseas fans seem to be translating my games just fine on their own" and "time spent localising old games is time that could be spent making new ones".

Put simply: he doesn't want to do it himself, he doesn't want anyone else to do it, he doesn't see a need for it and he doesn't care that he's potentially losing out financially by doing nothing.

One and done.

Remember guys: He's one man doing everything with his IP. You can't ask for the world when you also want to protect your IP.

 

[CO_Andy]

Does Team Shanghai Alice have any relation to the Shanghai dev studio behind Alice: Madness Returns?

 

[Charlouie Jonesman]

Does he even understand english? If he's a bit of a control freak over his games, the issue for him might be that he couldn't really oversee the translation, like some people are suggesting.

 

[Polioliolio]

Of course he can do whatever he wants and is justified, as he made the games.

 

[Producer]

Does Team Shanghai Alice have any relation to the Shanghai dev studio behind Alice: Madness Returns?

no

 

[Lebon14]

Does Team Shanghai Alice have any relation to the Shanghai dev studio behind Alice: Madness Returns?

No. Team Shanghai Alice (Original JP: 上海アリス幻樂団 "Shanhai Arisu Gengakudan") is an alias that ZUN uses. It has nothing to do with Alice: Madness Returns.

 

[cj_iwakura]

Does he even understand english? If he's a bit of a control freak over his games, the issue for him might be that he couldn't really oversee the translation, like some people are suggesting.

If Suda51 was able to trust a localization team with The Silver Case, ZUN should have no qualms with Touhou. And every Touhou game combined has less text than one chapter of Silver Case.

 

[Nairume]

If Suda51 was able to trust a localization team with The Silver Case, ZUN should have no qualms with Touhou. And every Touhou game combined has less text than one chapter of Silver Case.

I don't really see how Suda trusting an exterior team factors into whether or not ZUN should suddenly change his mind. His situation is different from Suda's as it stands.

 

[dadjumper]

Who even cares about the story? It's the gameplay and the music that matters. I'm more bummed about the fact that he won't allow the mainline games to get ported. I'd love a Switch compilation of TH 6 through 16, that would be fantastic. I have very little interest in the doujin stuff and the fighting games.

 

[Abilidebob]

I don't really think ZUN cares about money that much. What he earns in Japanese events is enough for him to buy all the beer he wants to and be high enough to design the silliest hats you'll ever see in a SHMUP.

 

[cj_iwakura]

I don't really see how Suda trusting an exterior team factors into whether or not ZUN should suddenly change his mind. His situation is different from Suda's as it stands.

Because Silver Case is a complicated nuanced script that has a labyrinthine amount of text, and ZUN thinking his works are some sort of unapproachable holy grail of writing smacks of a massive ego.

Who even cares about the story?

Well, those fan translations didn't do themselves.

 

[pbayne]

He can do whatever he wants with them.

 

[Crayolan]

It's dumb but he can do what he wants with his game.

Who even cares about the story? It's the gameplay and the music that matters. I'm more bummed about the fact that he won't allow the mainline games to get ported. I'd love a Switch compilation of TH 6 through 16, that would be fantastic. I have very little interest in the doujin stuff and the fighting games.

And yeah, this. Being able to play on something other than PC, even in Japanese, would be really nice.

 

[Captain Rage Quit 69]

Because Silver Case is a complicated nuanced script that has a labyrinthine amount of text, and ZUN thinking his works are some sort of unapproachable holy grail of writing smacks of a massive ego.

It's not about the writing, but just the fact that the guy doesn't want anyone but him working on any part of the main games.

When Playism managed to release Touhou 14 on their western site for the first time, not even the menus were translated. That has nothing to do with writing, and everything to do with ZUN not wanting others to mess with his games. It's unfortunate, but it's what it is and has been for two decades now.

 

[GamerJM]

Couldn't he just release them on Steam/GOG completely untranslated? I'm sure people would still buy them.

 

[@MUWANdo]

When Playism managed to release Touhou 14 on their western site for the first time, not even the menus were translated. That has nothing to do with writing, and everything to do with ZUN not wanting others to mess with his games. It's unfortunate, but it's what it is and has been for two decades now.

I could be wrong but I think another big factor was that Playism isn't really equipped to localise games on their own--they might translate the text but they generally don't program the localisation themselves, and ZUN didn't want to do it himself, so...

 

[NoblesseOblige]

People are free to make idiotic decisions.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

He can do what he wants, and he doesn't particularly owe us anything. If I want to play the games, the solution isn't to whine about it.

 

[Kthulhu]

His call. It's a stupid call though. The japanese game market ain't getting any bigger, and the costs of game development aren't getting any cheaper.

 

[Zelmardonpoktendo]

its his baby of course he can

 

[Trigonometrize.]

Of course he can do whatever he wants and is justified, as he made the games.

This statement doesn't make a lot of sense. Making the games means everything done regarding them is justified? That's not how that word works.

I general, I wish people would stop talking about people's "right" to do things. 99% of the time that fact is obvious to everyone.

 

[shockdude]

ZUN doesn't localize Touhou simply because he doesn't want to, and frankly he doesn't need to either.
His game development philosophy these days is to, well, make games. He's not in it for the money or fame, and he's not really interested in non-development aspects like localization, distribution, or support.
Could he oversee a proper English Steam release? Sure, but why would he when he'd rather just make games? (and spinoffs, mangas and books, music CDs, plus raising 2 kids...)

 

[Deft Beck]

It's foolish to us, but if he wants to keep it all to himself, then he has the full right to do so.

Same reason why Calvin and Hobbes remained a comic strip and didn't become a gargantuan media franchise like Peanuts.

 

[tomwhite2004]

I posted the below quotes in the touhou / switch thread yesterday but thought they should be here too...

"A: Would you ever be up for returning to older titles you’ve created and re-release them?

Z: There’s a lot of requests for me to do this. However, I would rather spend my time creating something brand new instead of remaking something.

A: In the past you’ve had offers to have your games brought to digital download platforms, but You’ve refused up to this point, why is that?

Z: Making the game for me is funnest part, if I had to talk to people and tweak this and that for a digital download version, it would be a hassle for me and I would rather be making more games."

 

[BudokaiMR2]

I could be wrong but I think another big factor was that Playism isn't really equipped to localise games on their own--they might translate the text but they generally don't program the localisation themselves, and ZUN didn't want to do it himself, so...

This is very close to the truth. There is even a translation script of Touhou 14 which I worked on.

I can't speak for ZUN, but I really think it just comes down to priorities for him. He would rather spend time working on a new game

Spoiler

or brewing beer

instead of implementing localization text.

That plus being a control freak and not wanting anyone else to touch his code is why an EN version never happened. We would have easily out-sourced the implementation if he would have let us.

 

[zswordsman]

Sooo thats where those characters are from :v

 

[Tizoc]

For some odd reason I am reminded of 'Too Human' in regards to this discussion.

I do find it funny however, that if SEGA were ever to use such a similar statement in regards to say PSO2, GAF would be in an uproar.

 

[Frozy]

Yeah it's a little funny seeing "No don't touch my stuff, but you can do whatever you want with the rest of the property though". When that stuff is harming the brand more than anything else.

Yeah, this is the part i just cannot understand, no matter what kind of explanation is given.
Overprotective of one thing, no care in the world for the other despite what both may mean for the brand's reputation.

 

[Red Liquorice]

How text heavy are these games given they're shmups?

 

[dadjumper]

How text heavy are these games given they're shmups?

Like four lines of dialogue per level

 

[hydrophilic attack]

I played Perfect Cherry Blossom for a bit and loved it. Music was fucking ace and gameplay was. It's a shame the games are being kept from a larger audience

 

[Red Liquorice]

Like four lines of dialogue per level

So perfectly playable without translation I guess. Or is it more about localization in terms of commercial release outside Japan rather than just translation?

 

[SliceSabre]

I mean I may not like his stance but as the creator he is very much entitled to do what he pleases with his property. People are saying "Well he's missing out on money!" Well what if he doesn't care he's missing out on money and is happy with the money he is making? Sometimes "You can make more money." isn't an argument for some people and that can blow minds.

 

[PantsuJo]

Selfish.

That's all.

 

[Yohane]

Selfish

Being doujin helped his creations so let them make a doujin translation

 

[tomwhite2004]

He's the creator and all but seems pretty stupid to not allow translations. I mean couldn't he always oversee them?

He doesn't speak english so couldnt approve them even if they were perfect.

I do find it funny however, that if SEGA were ever to use such a similar statement in regards to say PSO2, GAF would be in an uproar.

One is a global corporation and the other is a doujin developer working in a room in his house, not really comparable.

 

[miller.skippins]

you are entitled to NOT like his stance, OP........but ultimately, it's his games and he can do whatever he wants (or not).

 

[Linkstrikesback]

It's dumb as heck, but it's also his right to not have anything localised I guess.

I'll also exercise my right to give them shit until the day that changes though.

 

[magnetic]

And I will continue enjoying them as shooters every couple of years while completely ignoring the flying witch girls and their supposedly deep lore.

 

[BassForever]

his waifus are too pure for filthy gaijin.

Exactly


Seriously though it's his right if he doesn't want others working on his game officially and he doesn't feel like translating them. Obviously it's lost money on his part since it just invites more people to pirate the game worldwide. Yes someone could import the Japanese version and apply a fan patch, but I'll take a wild guess of the few thousand people who'd want to play these games most would have pay for an official english version but will now just pirate an already patched game for conveinence and a "well fuck you too Jun".

Also to answer the title thread it's both selfish and completely justified.

 

[MKIL65]

ZUN has allowed all kinds of people to use his content to create their own music, fanart, fangames, merchandise and etc.

He's anything but selfish. If he doesn't want to do it, that's his choice.

 

[yaffi]

I mean, these are Shmups. You don't exactly need a translation. The plot is quite silly most of the time; like "someone stole my tea. I'm going on a rampage!""

Also we got access to the best thing out of Touhou: the music, tons and tons of music, by hundreds of artists, covering every genre possible.

edit: And you don't get the right to pirate a game, just because it's not available in English/another language. You can import these games just fine.

 

[Tizoc]

One is a global corporation and the other is a doujin developer working in a room in his house, not really comparable.

They're still games or properties that would gain more by having further exposure.

 

[Dimitri LH]

Unless he does the programming himself? Does he even help in making the official fighting games outside of character and story design? Cause one of those games hit on PS4 In japan.....damnit ZUN at least give us the fighters!

 

[The Cartographer]

Controlling
Selfish
Obsessive

Fucking LOL.

He lets his fanbase do whatever the fuck they want with the IP that he created (no, seriously) and we have people here shitting on him just like that?

ZUN chose happiness over money, that's a fact.

 

[azyless]

Yeah selfish, also pretty stupid and probably doing his franchise a disservice.
But if that's his choice then so be it.

 

[BassForever]

Unless he does the programming himself? Does he even help in making the official fighting games outside of character and story design? Cause one of those games hit on PS4 In japan.....damnit ZUN at least give us the fighters!

We are getting burst battle the 1 v 1 fighter on ps4/vita/switch

 

[SliceSabre]

Controlling
Selfish
Obsessive

Fucking LOL.

He lets his fanbase do whatever the fuck they want with the IP that he created (no, seriously) and we have people here shitting on him just like that?

ZUN chose happiness over money, that's a fact.

I gotta agree with this post.

If he was any of the above things to the degree some are saying he'd be working his ass off to sue all the people making money off his IP but he lets the fans make money off his IP with games, music and merchandise.