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Bungie explains why Destiny 2 is 30 FPS on consoles, even the PS4 Pro (CPU limits)

Halo 5 Warzone could run at 1080p/60 fps on the standard Xbox One, with numerous physics based vehicles, dozens of enemies, particle effects, and multiple players. Are 343i just CPU wizards?

plqf3gW.gif

Are you seriously comparing a Warzone map to a Destiny planet?
 

Tecnniqe

Banned
Which competitive multiplayer games are you referring to that target different frame rates between the different versions of the PS4? I'm not aware that there are any.

Battleborn is the easiest which is a competitive nature game where the normal runs 1080/30 while the pro offer 1080/60 or 4k/30
 

Vashetti

Banned
Which competitive multiplayer games are you referring to that target different frame rates between the different versions of the PS4? I'm not aware that there are any.

Battleborn is capped at 30fps on the OG PS4 and runs at 60 on the Pro.
 

Brhoom

Banned
I bet Bungie is reading this thread and facepalming so hard at the posts teaching them how they can really hit 60 fps on their consoles...
 

RoboPlato

I'd be in the dick
Means that engine is still dogshit.

4v4 no destruction or environmental complexity. At 30 when every other mp shooter is at 60. That's apple levels of douchebaggery.
I wouldn't be surprised if it was technically possible for Crucible to hit 60 but Bungie, for better and for worse, had been very committed to their goal of PvP and PvE feeling the same so I doubt they would want to do a different framerate target for different modes.
 

Bizazedo

Member
I bet Bungie is reading this thread and facepalming so hard at the posts teaching them how they can really hit 60 fps on their consoles...
Maybe.

How'd they do it / what's different now compared to the 360 / PS3 version of Destiny 1, though?
 

Vashetti

Banned
PS4 Pro continues to underwhelm

Spoiler: Scorpio will too in this regard.

It's still just a Jaguar CPU clocked 200Mhz higher than the Pro's (2.1Ghz vs 2.3Ghz).

These mid-gen consoles are specced to bump resolutions, the jump just isn't there to bump from 30fps to 60fps, except in some minor cases where the engine is GPU-bound instead of CPU-bound.
 
I think 30FPS makes sense for everything except for the Crucible. Crucible is 4v4 and it's relatively contained. I honestly don't understand the justification for that.

They probably don't want two modes where it feels completely different. It can work for something like Rainbow Six Siege's modes but in a game like Destiny where the non versus multiplayer is the main aspect of the game having the superior feeling mode be in MP would sort of make the campaign feel a lot worse
 
Wow, I had no idea.

Whelp, so much for that theory. Now I have to reconsider some things.

And there's still the debate over whether games with uncapped 30/60 fps target count as well.

Personally I count BF1. It's noticeably smoother online on a Pro and that makes a real difference
 

Leonidas

Member
If Scorpio can't hit 60fps it would be cool if they unlocked the framerate so that it could take advantage of Scorpio's Freesync capability for a better than 30fps locked experience.
 

THE:MILKMAN

Member
My i7 CPU in my PC right now is exponentially more powerful than the Jaguars that these consoles use, and it's two years old. By the time next gen hits they can use chips similar to it that are more than capable of 4k/60 and take full advantage of SSD speeds. These chips are pretty cheap now and will be dirt cheap in 2 more years

Well a desktop i7 is almost certainly going to remain quite a lot more powerful than what will be in the next consoles, IMO.

I haven't looked much into yet and there are few performance indicators but the cores I think will be used by Sony/MS will be Ryzen Mobile and according to AMD performance will be +50% over 7th gen APU CPUs.

That doesn't seem like a massive boost over e.g. PS4 Pro 2.1GHz Jaguar? Can anyone estimate the boost over Jaguar?

The point I'm trying to make here is that even if the CPU gets boosted by say 3X the GPU will be boosted by 6-8X (over PS4) leading to similar CPU limited issues.

Maybe the answer could be a return to special dedicated chips to get around APU limitations!?
 

Tecnniqe

Banned
H5 Warzone runs at 720p.
A shooter at 720p60 is better than a shooter at 1080p30
Battleborn is an exception.
An exception it may be, but it sure makes the whole thing "sony wont allow it cause parity" go right down the toilet. You have big games with uncapped frame rate too, so might as well throw the whole thing out the window. 50 is still better than 30.
For real, that'd be great for me.

I wish 1080p/60 had become a standard this gen before any 4k talk started

Yeah. I wish that too.
 

Piggus

Member
PS4 Pro continues to underwhelm

Yeah sure, if you don't know how the hardware works and thought every game would get a boost to 60 fps despite using basically the same CPU. The Pro (and the Scorpio) were built to run games at higher resolution, not higher framerate.
 
A shooter at 720p60 is better than a shooter at 1080p30

I know.

An exception it may be, but it sure makes the whole thing "sony wont allow it cause parity" go right down the toilet. You have big games with uncapped frame rate too, so might as well throw the whole thing out the window. 50 is still better than 30.

That is true. Fluctuating frame-rates that hover around 50 rarely feel better than a locked 30.
 

geordiemp

Member
I'm sure it'll play fine. But I'm still not convinced they couldn't do it for Crucible.

Yup, crucible could be 60, but its peer to peer so does not matter if its 16 or 32 ms when players are lagging seconds in the game and rubber banding across the map.

Servers are more important than 30 vs 60

Give me 1080p60 on scorpio!!


You do know that Xb1, Ps4, Ps4 pro and Scorpio all have the same shit Jaguar CPU dont you. We wont get 60 FPS on games with lots of enemies on screen and lots of AI until a console comes with a decent CPU like Ryzen.

Scorpio is only about 5 % better than pro, its all crap (I have a Pro).

All scorpio can do is 4K30 like Pro, they have nice GPU and tiny tiny teeny weeny little specs of dust called Jaguar.
 

duhmetree

Member
Coming in 2018.... PS4 Pro Gamer edition... featuring the latest Zen CPU technology...

The PS4 that's used in tournaments and by professional gamers world wide... Play like the Pros at a blazing 60 frames per second... PS4 Pros.

who would buy it?
 

Vashetti

Banned
Coming in 2018.... PS4 Pros Gamer edition... featuring the latest Zen CPU technology...

The PS4 that's used in tournaments and by professional gamers world wide... Play like the Pros at a blazing 60 frames per second... PS4 Pros.

who would buy it?

Nobody, because a year or two later is PS5 time.
 

geordiemp

Member
Coming in 2018.... PS4 Pro Gamer edition... featuring the latest Zen CPU technology...

The PS4 that's used in tournaments and by professional gamers world wide... Play like the Pros at a blazing 60 frames per second... PS4 Pros.

who would buy it?

Zen will be ps5 / Xb2. Cant wait
 
Spoiler: Scorpio will too in this regard.

It's still just a Jaguar CPU clocked 200Mhz higher than the Pro's (2.1Ghz vs 2.3Ghz).

These mid-gen consoles are specced to bump resolutions, the jump just isn't there to bump from 30fps to 60fps, except in some minor cases where the engine is GPU-bound instead of CPU-bound.

I don't give a fuck about Scorpio tbh.

Sony's exclusives are the only thing keeping me a console gamer.

I suppose I expected a bit more focus for those of us still using 1080p sets.
 
Nobody, because a year or two later is PS5 time.

Yup, a real 6-8 core Multi-threaded Zen+Vega APU with likely 16GB of RAM is only a couple of years off. The sooner we can get passed these crappy-ass weak Jaguar CPUs and move onto a new generation, the better.
 
This is one of the dumbest things I've heard in relation to the PS4 Pro. As is a higher resolution wasn't an inherent advantage as well. I'm 100% sure they're just trying to combat the narrative surrounding the CPU power.

Nope, they aren't. This is a standard both consoles will be adhering to.
 
I don't know the technnical and software aspects of it, but couldn't they do 4K-1080p/30fps for pve and 900p/60fps for pvp?

Uncharted 4 did that and I thought it worked out great. I know they're very different games, but I'm sure most pvp players would've been ok with some type of similar compromise.
 

Deadly Cyclone

Pride of Iowa State
Halo 5 Warzone could run at 1080p/60 fps on the standard Xbox One, with numerous physics based vehicles, dozens of enemies, particle effects, and multiple players. Are 343i just CPU wizards?
]

I love me some Warzone, but graphically it looks like ass. Really bad.
 

THE:MILKMAN

Member
Nobody, because a year or two later is PS5 time.

If Ryzen-based then wouldn't it automatically mean it is PS5 and dropping the Jaguar-based PS4/Pro? Can't have one of each for TP devs to manage.

It is why I find the talk and "evidence" recently pointing to a new PlayStation/PS5 next year really confusing.
 
Yup, a real 6-8 core Multi-threaded Zen+Vega APU with likely 16GB of RAM is only a couple of years off. The sooner we can get passed these crappy-ass weak Jaguar CPUs and move onto a new generation, the better.

Agreed 100%

If you think about it, it's actually pretty impressive that Pro can do what it does, and Scorpio will do what it will do, with such a unquestionably awful CPU powering both. I mean it's not talked about enough how shit these Jaguar CPUs are
 

tanod

when is my burrito
Hmmmm. I don't really get the fuss... Destiny plays really great for a 30fps game. Probably the best console shooter in terms of controller handling and how smooth the gunplay is.

Destiny 1 was a cross-gen game. I expected Destiny 2 to look considerably better.

I suppose they still have time to polish but what they showed yesterday did not meet expectations in that area.
 
Annnnd now I'm back to square one.

So if a game targets 60fps on both consoles, but one fluctuates between 40-55 and the other is locked 60, you don't feel there's an advantage? And if you do, then it essentially squashes "games have to run the same on both" theory

Planetside 2 is another great example
 
PVE excuse aside, I can not be convinced 4v4 multiplayer is too taxing for 60fps.

And yes, Battlefield 1 runs way better on PS4 Pro than it does on stock PS4. I personally think it would be shitty to allow games to run at 60/30 in multiplayer games, but that's not the point. This game should be hitting 60 on all hardware. It's not even a looker, their contemporaries all look better and sadly, basically all play better by default.
 

Vashetti

Banned
I don't know the technnical and software aspects of it, but couldn't they do 4K-1080p/30fps for pve and 900p/60fps for pvp?

Uncharted 4 did that and I thought it worked out great. I know they're very different games, but I'm sure most pvp players would've been ok with some type of similar compromise.

No, they literally say in the video in OP that Destiny's engine is CPU-heavy.

Turning down the res wouldn't help because that's all the GPU-side.
 
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