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[RedlineRonin]

I haven't even considered that they might be making a profit from it. That would explain things.

Yea, it would be really interesting to see the BoM for the Xbox X. I would have assumed they would price it so The console + a year of XBL makes it so they breakeven like PS4 did with launch. The machine itself must be more expensive to produce than expected because i can't imagine they have a large margin on it.

Yeah, and I obviously have no inside knowledge that they are or aren't losing money on it, but I assume for a division that's already been maybe not "pulling their weight" financially compared to the rest of the MS lines of business, it's probably super super hard for Phil to go up the chain and go "we need to build this box and cut the price to steal market share back from Sony."

And to the same points made more broadly about games, it gets even more difficult. Even if they agreed, and the goal was to make up the money on the software side, MS hasn't shown a ton of great "i need to have" software either, so that part of the financial argument gets complicated as well.

Idk, Phil's in a tough spot. I love what he's done on the Xbox team. I'm a PC guy primarily so I feel very, very thankful that he's pushed all the first party stuff on to PC. I just feel bad because in some ways it seems like he'll forever be digging his way out of the hole Mattrick created =(

I wonder how much they will make selling those XboneX.

I mean, they will sell them for a profit at that price, right?

Curious about this as well. I'm not an expert in the details of the HW they showed, by any means. The presentation made it seem like there's a whole lot of "custom" stuff going on, which would lead me to believe it wasn't a cheap box to build.

 

[Dragun619]

Is there any chance that MS didn't want to talk about price yesterday but felt like they had to because of Geoff? Felt weird they didn't even show the price on screen.

I feel like it could be the opposite, like Geoff heard or saw rehearsal, and felt unsatisfied with just how MS wanted to quickly announce the price without elaborating with any slides or details then move on to the last game.

 

[FuturusX]

So are we unhappy that Geoff leaked the price? Or unhappy that the price is $499?

Both?

 

[benny_a]

So are we unhappy that Geoff leaked the price? Or unhappy that the price is $499?

Both?

Depends on the individual.

I'm neither unhappy nor happy that it is $499. I merely think it's a bad price.

The shame part of that wall of shame wasn't being wrong about the price - no shame in missing a number.

Not everyone on that wall of shame was saying anything other than this. Everyone saying $499 is wrong being crazy psycho angry Xbot is some manufactured shit.

 

[Sumio Mondo]

So are we unhappy that Geoff leaked the price? Or unhappy that the price is $499?

Both?

I would hope it's the latter, if anything.

 

[elhav]

Well at least its something different. If it was Pro priced it would've been Pro powered too. What's the point in another console with a similar power to the Pro? They have pretty much the same games, save for a few handful of exclusives that can easily be ignored in favor of all the multiplats and other exclusives.

If they aren't different in power, they are pretty much the same thing. I think this should be cool for anyone with a giant 4k tv and willing to shell out the cash. It might not be for everyone, but people with giant 4k tvs, and the number is slowly growing, you need something like this.

But it really isn't that much different. As opposed to the Switch, which is very pricy for its hardware, but is at least offering something unique(albeit flawed and severely lacking in games imo). The X is basically a slightly stronger ps4 pro, and most people won't spend 150 extra dollars for it. You can still get 4k with the pro, or better yet build a PC. The 4K console market the pro has is already quite small compared to that of the ps4 and xbox one, so I don't imagine the X will make much difference.

Besides, Sony have a lot of exclusives that actually do tip the scale for many, while most of Microsoft's exclusives come out on pc as well.

The console doesn't seem to hold much appeal for most, unless Microsoft show up with more actual console exclusives near the release to warrant a purchase.

 

[jroc74]

I thought it was $399 because I never would have expected Microsoft's Xbox division to commit ritualistic suicide on stage.

Then you must didnt see the specs for the system before yesterday.

Those wanting it to be less, should have hoped for less specs than it has.

Its only $100 more than the Pro. That isnt really all that much for what you're getting.

Vs the XBO, XBO S, PS4 Slim? Its massive. In price and specs.

Some want MS to have the most powerful console out....but dont wanna pay the price for that label....

Cant have it both ways. Makes me wonder now what it would have been had it released before Pro. And what would Sony have done.

Alot of if's lol.

Those still like but the specs dont warrant the price:

the extra ram alone IMO is worth $50 more than the Pro.

 

[Widge]

Depends on the individual.

I'm neither unhappy nor happy that it is $499. I merely think it's a bad price.

I think it is the right price for the machine, but people were looking for solutions to Microsoft's other problems: getting the crown back from Sony, working on their 1st party portfolio. This machine solves neither, despite it being a good machine.

 

[David Ricardo]

So are we unhappy that Geoff leaked the price? Or unhappy that the price is $499?

Both?

It's the latter.

 

[n0razi]

That will get me a GTX 1080 ti

 

[jroc74]

I think it is the right price for the machine, but people were looking for solutions to Microsoft's other problems: getting the crown back from Sony, working on their 1st party portfolio. This machine solves neither, despite it being a good machine.

Exactly.

 

[benny_a]

I think it is the right price for the machine

I disagree. It's a year advancements on the PS4 Pro frm AMD's semi customs devision.
Maybe we're adding 15 USD as it isn't just a SoC improvement. I don't get $100 more from that.

But I'm sure that topic has been discussed to deaths in the countless Scorpio threads over the last few months.

 

[Gattsu25]

So are we unhappy that Geoff leaked the price? Or unhappy that the price is $499?

Both?

I don't see why anyone would be upset with the former. That's an irrational position to take IMO.

 

[Meier]

$499 is too much in general, but I think they did an absolutely miserable job of showing off why this piece of kit is worth $499. Specs do nothing for me or for any potential buyer. You need a tangible reason. The footage of a few of the games looked good (I assume Anthem was the enhanced version), but you need to show the Scorpio version next to the standard Xbox One version to make it clear what makes it worth spending double to get it. As it stands, we know Forza is always going to look amazing.. I didn't see anything in the trailer for it that made me think it couldn't already be done.

 

[Dosia]

While I always thought $399 was a complete fantasy, would the people who are shocked be more accepting of a $449 price tag? I think that should have been Microsoft's target price.

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

I think it is the right price for the machine, but people were looking for solutions to Microsoft's other problems: getting the crown back from Sony, working on their 1st party portfolio. This machine solves neither, despite it being a good machine.

They were expecting too much. I couldn't believe people thought this mid-gen refresh was both going to claw back marketshare from Sony and under in a new age in Microsoft's 1st party efforts in one fell swoop. It was never going to do either of those things, so I'm not sure what it was that tricked people into thinking it would.

 

[jroc74]

^Console wars. Has to be why some thought that.

Just knowing the Pro wasnt outselling the Slim should had said it all.

Do some realize that for some PC games the recommended specs is 8GB, the XBO X will have that....

That might mean no compromises because of less ram.

 

[Neuromancer]

I think based on what system we grew up with and emotionally aligned with during our development years, it would shape our future preference in gaming. I am assuming Geoff like me was very much affected by MGS1 and the PlayStation, which is why he will have this bias. This may also explain the taste of this forum too which I feel is a bit more towards the PS side, perhaps just due to demographic of the user base.

I think most people don't care much about brand. They switch consoles when there are good reasons to do so, like price and where they think the best games are. I was primarily a 360 player last generation.

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

Geoff Keighley took to Twitter to say

“Four ninety nine is the price guys, okay?”

They called him a liar

“Let’s set him on fire!”

Now he’s bathing in their tears all day.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

So are we unhappy that Geoff leaked the price? Or unhappy that the price is $499?

Both?

I'm mainly unhappy that Microsoft's E3 wasn't the spectacle I expected (new console that's the new powerful kid on the block). Anthem looked interesting though. Bethesda show was nice, but I'm hoping Sony at least make things exciting their show.

 

[Hippopuncher12]

Then you must didnt see the specs for the system before yesterday.

Those wanting it to be less, should have hoped for less specs than it has.

Its only $100 more than the Pro. That isnt really all that much for what you're getting.

Vs the XBO, XBO S, PS4 Slim? Its massive. In price and specs.

Some want MS to have the most powerful console out....but dont wanna pay the price for that label....

Cant have it both ways. Makes me wonder now what it would have been had it released before Pro. And what would Sony have done.

Alot of if's lol.

Those still like but the specs dont warrant the price:

the extra ram alone IMO is worth $50 more than the Pro.

You're right. The price is fine for what the machine is. My personal problem is why pay for it, when it doesn't have a single game that I can't play on something else? (Minus some early xbox one games obviously) I am actually thinking of getting one for just the enhanced BC it brings for 360 and OG Xbox games.

 

[EGM1966]

I thought it was $399 because I never would have expected Microsoft's Xbox division to commit ritualistic suicide on stage.

They've done it before.

Joking aside I get that but really the specs and positioning language "premium model" always indicated the higher price point. I did think they might squeeze it down to $449 so was wrong myself but the sub $400 price always felt like blue sky fan fantasy thinking.

MS clearly want to make some profit on units sold and they're clearly more interested in overall ecosystem across multiple platforms vs taking a loss just to try and sell most units in console space.

The time when they'd invest hugely in console market is over IMHO. Smart TVs and mobile devices won the war for the living room in the end and all the console platforms lost that one.

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

Yes it's a perfectly valid price for what you get. And TBH all new consoles going forward should be $500 with as good tech as possible in them. When you look at other consumer electronics they are all good tech and sold for at least some profit, yet people expect different with consoles. They can't keep being $400 forever.

But with that said console gamers expectations still exist, and so do the competing machines. I guestimated the unit cost might be up to $450 and MS would take a small-ish hit to make it attractive. I think they had a genuine chance of recapturing some lost gamers, but that ain't happening now.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

Also going normal Xbox One S wouldn't be so bad if they didn't still get games that run at 720p. Major releases, though it's very rare but I wish they could make a revision to the normal Xbox to get rid of that edram like the X and allow it to run better. Redesigned with kinect fully out of the picture (kinect screwed up the original Xbox design, also timing DDR3 instead of unified GDDR5).

That will get me a GTX 1080 ti

And you'll be set for a good long long time. Waiting to see how non reference Vegas perform with great cooling and then I'll decide between the two.

 

[somecrazymember]

All my apologies to Geoff. Sorry man, i didn't believe myself. Thanks for the scoop

 

[vpance]

I disagree. It's a year advancements on the PS4 Pro frm AMD's semi customs devision.
Maybe we're adding 15 USD as it isn't just a SoC improvement. I don't get $100 more from that.

But I'm sure that topic has been discussed to deaths in the countless Scorpio threads over the last few months.

Same process node, same Polaris, maybe even less customizations.

 

[benny_a]

MS clearly want to make some profit on units sold and they're clearly more interested in overall ecosystem across multiple platforms vs taking a loss just to try and sell most units in console space.

Yeah that seems to be the case. The premium model has a high profit margin and as can be seen with the PS4 Pro it's not really some massive sales driver.

I guess $429 is more reasonable but I think $499 is just taking the piss for what's being offered.

(I also thought the straight PS4 Pro at $399 was not a good value.)

 

[Uno Venova]

I'm glad this also sends the message that no matter the horsepower, gamers have a threshold for a price they'll be excited for and that's not a cent above 399.

Hope Sony keeps that in mind for next gen.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

Yeah that seems to be the case. The premium model has a high profit margin and as can be seen with the PS4 Pro it's not really some massive sales driver.

I guess $429 is more reasonable but I think $499 is just taking the piss for what's being offered.

(I also thought the straight PS4 Pro at $399 was not a good value.)

Yeah, but you know, it sure looks like a friggin good deal now huh? haha, oh man.

Sony, "thanks Microsoft."

Maybe Sony will get off their butts and allow all games to downsample.

 

[dottme]

I think it is the right price for the machine, but people were looking for solutions to Microsoft's other problems: getting the crown back from Sony, working on their 1st party portfolio. This machine solves neither, despite it being a good machine.

Let's talk just about me and avoid generalization.
I have a PS4 pro and a Switch. I play a lot of console but the initial marketing of the Xbox one push me away.
The Xbox one S was tempting but after hearing that's Scorpio is coming, I decided to wait and see what happen.
I'm not looking for something really powerful, but the Xbox One S is not even as powerful as a base PS4.
The $399 of the PS4 pro was quite a lot, but I think that was the limit.
So for the moment, my choices are for an Xbox:
-something which is not powerful enough
-something powerful, but quite expensive and that will only be partially the used as for the PS4 pro.

None of the Xbox offering look to hit the sweet spot for me. Both PS4 system looks closer to what I'm looking for in this generation.

 

[MisterR]

So are we unhappy that Geoff leaked the price? Or unhappy that the price is $499?

Both?

People are pretending to be unhappy about the former, but are really unhappy about the latter.

 

[MacAttack]

That will get me a GTX 1080 ti

The cheapest one I see on Newegg right now is $680 and good luck playing games without a CPU, Motherboard, RAM etc.

 

[Harlock]

John Davidson hinted at Glixel podcast that Geoff leak could be planned by Microsoft, to soft the bad news.

 

[Reallink]

Then you must didnt see the specs for the system before yesterday.

Those wanting it to be less, should have hoped for less specs than it has.

Its only $100 more than the Pro. That isnt really all that much for what you're getting.

Vs the XBO, XBO S, PS4 Slim? Its massive. In price and specs.

Some want MS to have the most powerful console out....but dont wanna pay the price for that label....

Cant have it both ways. Makes me wonder now what it would have been had it released before Pro. And what would Sony have done.

Alot of if's lol.

Those still like but the specs dont warrant the price:

the extra ram alone IMO is worth $50 more than the Pro.

The Pro will be a full calendar year old, the 40% Scorpio advantage is well within computational gains you would expect to see in that span. I think they simply went too far with the custom parts, vapor chambers, and smallest Xbox ever bullshit. They probably could have built a larger box with simpler components for $399. If Sony pulled off 4.2TF in 2016 for $399, MS certainly could have pulled off 6TF in 2017 for $399.

 

[brerwolfe]

All my apologies to Geoff. Sorry man, i didn't believe myself. Thanks for the scoop

What good was the "scoop"? He tweeted it 2½ hours before it became official. There was nothing actionable with that information, nothing changed in the minutes before, during or after the official announcement.

I don't see the point of him throwing it out there. Great, you have a source that gives you info mere minutes before everyone else knows. Good for you.

 

[gamz]

I'm glad this also sends the message that no matter the horsepower, gamers have a threshold for a price they'll be excited for and that's not a cent above 399.

Hope Sony keeps that in mind for next gen.

But no issues buying a controller for 150 bucks. So tired of this console gamers are cheap as shit and don't enjoy premium products.

 

[jstripes]

So are we unhappy that Geoff leaked the price? Or unhappy that the price is $499?

Both?

The real story here is the leakers.

Spoiler

I don't know why anyone would be upset about the leak, unless they're obsessive about "spoilers".

 

[Eppy Thatcher]

This was supposed to just be another one of those quick leak threads where everyone is like 'No way!" or "Way!" and then the price would drop on one side of that fence or the other and everyone would be all "CROW" and "Dorito pope is mah boi!" and then bam.. moving on!

Instead we have this.... just this beautiful thing here. A junior slayed. Talking out necks left and right. Wild backflips of junior college level psych 101 ideas as to the state of GAFs emotional attachment to a particular large corporation???

I love E3 so fucking much.

 

[Uno Venova]

But no issues buying a controller for 150 bucks. So tired of this console gamers are cheap as shit and don't enjoy premium products.

Lol 399 isn't cheap. Just the max price for a widely successful console.

 

[Kaako]

I'm glad this also sends the message that no matter the horsepower, gamers have a threshold for a price they'll be excited for and that's not a cent above 399.

Hope Sony keeps that in mind for next gen.

Yup yup.
Any HW platform holder will think twice about coming in hot with a $450+ price point at the launch of next gen. Lessons will be learned, again.

 

[EGM1966]

Yeah that seems to be the case. The premium model has a high profit margin and as can be seen with the PS4 Pro it's not really some massive sales driver.

I guess $429 is more reasonable but I think $499 is just taking the piss for what's being offered.

(I also thought the straight PS4 Pro at $399 was not a good value.)

Yah I still think they could have made $449.

My personal view is they think hardcore install base will upgrade strongly even at $499 and they reap benefits and then drop to $449 in time for second holiday season on market.

 

[TheStruggler]

the ps4pro will get a price drop announcement today, or close to when xbox one x is released

 

[spannicus]

But no issues buying a controller for 150 bucks. So tired of this console gamers are cheap as shit and don't enjoy premium products.

I bought 2 elite controllers one for the xbox and one for my PC. Praise god ill by this too lol.

 

[jony_m]

I love Geoff but come on people, that "leak" came 100% from MS to soften the blow.

 

[Shoeless]

In retrospect, the levels of rage and outright hostility to rumors like this is always kind of baffling after the fact. But I guess if you're deeply, DEEPLY emotionally and psychologically invested in something, hearing anything that might hurt it's chances is like a personal insult, so I guess I can see where some of the anger was coming from.

But yeah, it's still a weird line to cross to make it personal and start calling out the guy that just passed on the information. People forget, "Don't shoot the messenger" for some reason.

 

[benny_a]

I love Geoff but come on people, that "leak" comes 100% from MS to soften the blow.

Basically he ruined the memes of having people audibly gasp at Phil saying the price - again.

Damn you Geoff you magnificent man!

 

[MilkyJoe]

I'm glad this also sends the message that no matter the horsepower, gamers have a threshold for a price they'll be excited for and that's not a cent above 399.

Hope Sony keeps that in mind for next gen.

That ought to hold things back.

What they should learn is that you get what you pay for.

 

[SomewhatGroovy]

But no issues buying a controller for 150 bucks. So tired of this console gamers are cheap as shit and don't enjoy premium products.

Yeah, there isn't a consensus on what "gamers" want or don't want to pay for.

For me, personally, I can't see any PC that will let me play 4K games for $500. That alone is the cost of graphics cards most people spend every year and a half. Even if this Xbox X remains technically relevant for only two years, at worst, it's still priced competitively.

 

[sense]

But no issues buying a controller for 150 bucks. So tired of this console gamers are cheap as shit and don't enjoy premium products.

Guess the percentage of xb1 gamers that bought it in relation to the install base? 1 to 2 million out of 27 million or so and that is somehow great? It's fine for niche accessory just like psvr which is even more expensive but not something to compare to a platform you have been hyping up for over a year and then end up making the slim look the better deal

 

[Ploid 3.0]

The cheapest one I see on Newegg right now is $680 and good luck playing games without a CPU, Motherboard, RAM etc.

I think they have that already. No one without a PC would just say they would get a high end video card like that if they didn't. Also https://pcpartpicker.com/product/gRvZxr/msi-video-card-geforcegtx1080foundersedition

Best current price is $525