-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
GTA V is Getting Hammered By Steam User Reviews. "Save Open IV" Petition over 40k
- Thread starter bud23
- Start date
ShironRedshift
Member
Pretty much. And on top of that, if it's really causing a problem and people want to cut through it all to read true reviews, that's exactly what MetaCritic/OpenCritic are there for. Consumers get to have their voices heard, and people who want actual reviews still have access to them. Don't see the harm.
The aggregate rating only counts reviews for games directly bought from Steam.
Edit: Apparently all Steam activated GTAV games are Steam bought.
Yeah, where it's only sold seven million copies.
Different things. The aggregate only counts reviews for games directly bought from the Steam store. Valve changed that recently-ish.
Immortal Technique
Member
So user reviews are not true reviews, and are of no use to other users. User reviews are just a tool to communicate with publishers then, correct?
Tomeru
Member
Only 7 million.
Not all of those 7 million people bought the game from Steam, game being in Steam isn't the same as bought from Steam. And to my knowledge SteamDB counts every game activated in Steam, even if it was bought elsewhere. If you bought Steam key from GMG or brick and mortar store, your review won't affect the score.
Edit: Apparently all Steam activated GTAV games are Steam bought.
The steam version of GTA V is exclusively sold through Steam Store, not anywhere else.
Aaaah, all right. Thanks for the correction. Seems like it just requires the Rockstar Social Club then.
ShironRedshift
Member
I can only presume such individuals were never THAT interested in the game to begin with if simply seeing "Mostly Negative" or whatever is enough by itself to deter them from purchasing the game, without even the slightest glance downward at the user reviews themselves to see if the things people are concerned about are things that they themselves find problematic or not. If just the aggregate score itself pushes someone away in of itself, and they don't have the slightest bit of curiosity why it has that score, then they were never that interested to begin with.
But more to the point, yes, aggregate scores are terrible in general as they by their very nature can't tell you anything about your own personal tastes and concerns. The only way to figure out whether that actually means anything at all to you or not is to read at least a few of the reviews, regardless of whether they're positive or negative. That's precisely why I don't get people who freak out or celebrate a game's aggregate score purely for its own sake because it's useless without that additional context or, if not entirely useless, at least extremely less informative and much less reliable information.
If an additional lesson people end up taking up from this is to take aggregate scores less seriously and to simply use aggregate sites to stumble onto individual reviewers who have similar tastes to you personally when it comes to a particular genre of games, that's just another benefit as far as I'm concerned, particularly since review threads always get bogged down with discussion of individual/aggregate review score and much less focus is put on the actual content of the reviews themselves. If we could get away from that, review threads would be a much better place, but alas...
family_guy
Member
Were mods officially supported to begin with? I understand if something that was advertised ends up getting removed after you paid your money, but the reviews should be based on what Rockstar delivered. Steam reviews don't seem like the right platform for this.
Kssio_Aug
Member
That's your fault. If you feel like buying a game, when you check the review score and see it's negative, won't you even bother reading some of it to understand the reason behind that?? If you can't read a few reviews before deciding not to buy it you probably were barely interested in the 1st place. So at least the negative score helped you to save some money.
I always read a few positive and negative impressions when I'm not 100% sure about buying a game on Steam, and they usually tell me about the game optimization and other issues they may have been finding.
KormaChameleon
Member
I might sound a bit dense from this post but I have to ask, What are the PC owners trying to accomplish for leaving negative reviews? Rockstar/T2 already have their money so I doubt the suits would care about that. Was installing mods part of the advertisement for the PC version? I just don't seem to understand on what they're wanting achieve. If they want to leave an impact couldn't they just not purchase any games from T2/Rockstar in the future.
Again, Sorry for being dense. Feel free to explain to me.
Again, Sorry for being dense. Feel free to explain to me.
Immortal Technique
Member
I have discovered a lot of cool games simply browsing through Steam, new releases, top sellers, applying/combining filters, etc. If you only fire up Steam to look up a specific game you already have interest in, that's fine, but given the nature of Steam's market, and the tools they have built, the user experience should not be tailored only to such people.
I agree that reading reviews is of course much more informative than just looking at the aggregate. But the aggregate is there for a reason, and if it cannot be trusted one bit, then it shouldn't be there at all.
ShironRedshift
Member
That's not what I mean. User reviews certainly can be just as much true reviews as those from sites like IGN, Kotaku, or Polygon. However, from what I gather, you don't consider user reviews that only complain about stuff like the mod programs being shut down to be true reviews, but rather a perversion of the system. In such a case, even if you can't find "true' reviews on Steam itself due to them getting buried, you can still find them on MetaCritic/OpenCritic, so that isn't a problem.
That's what I meant by true reviews. That doesn't reflect my own personal feelings (which are that both are legitimate uses if the system for their own reasons and it's up to consumers to decide how they want to use them and what information is most important to convey to each other/to the publisher/developer at any given time. In other words, that they're a very fluid, flexible system thsy can easily change to meet changing nerds), but simply responding to the position of someone who does not consider such uses legitimate.
Even in such a circumstance, such legitimate reviews can in fact still be easily found, so letting consumers have this one particular outlet to express their frustration to publishers/developers would seem to cause no discernable problem. That's all I was trying to get across. I apologize if that wasn't clear.
That reason is to alert you, Mixed or lower tells you that a significant amount of people are not satisfied, so you scroll down and read exactly why they're not satisfied. The reason isn't to tell you whether or not you should blindly spend your money.
Phrozenflame500
Member
I don't think there's anything specific to accomplish. At worst it's just expressing their dissatisfaction, at best they're hoping that Steam reviews have some tangible if minor effect on sales.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Stop playing their game comes to mind.
Kssio_Aug
Member
It can be trusted though. People are giving negative reviews for a reason! Maybe not a reason you agree, but a reason nonetheless.
Mod was a thing. Now it's not. And they're informing potential buyers about it and expressing their whole disappointement about the consequences of it.
Hopefully they still will bring RDR2 to Steam/PC. That R* has done id terrible sad shit, but I still will buy RDR2 on PC.
Depends on country.
Depends on country.
TeamLeftMatch
Member
T2 care a lot about the microtransactions in GTA V more than the base game considering they would bundle it with those shark cards and have the CEO claim that they are undermonitizing their games. In my opinion this shows how greedy T2 is by shutting down a Single player modding tool that won't let you play online and doesn't work for pirated copies. I don't how much this can accomplish but it can put new people off buying this game and directly shows how much the community is against T2 on this decision.
Dick Justice
Banned
Man, so many salty fanboys in here bitching about Steam reviews being used rather well; game publisher/developer does shitty thing to community, game publisher/developer gets rightly called out for it and has visual warning signs placed for the benefit of potential future customers. I bet if a game was to literally self-destruct and destroy your hardware everytime you got a game over, there would be legions of dribbling fanboys saying "B-but how dare people give this a bad review for that! At least the gameplay is good! It's the company's right to piss off their paying customers!"
Phrozenflame500
Member
Who says those are mutually exclusive?
Immortal Technique
Member
I don't trust at all that these users think the game is actually bad. The console GTAV never had mods, did it ever get a surge of negative reviews, of course not. I can understand amending reviews to note that mods were taken away, but this changing to thumbs down en masse is dishonest.
Why are you being so hostile, can't you play nice? You don't seem like a person who should be listened to. And why are you quoting things that nobody has said? Don't make stuff up to validate your own argument, it's again something that doesn't make you look good. If you can't handle people being critical, you shouldn't participate in forum discussions.
Immortal Technique
Member
So what if I'm looking for an open world action game and have got a list of 10 candidates. Can I use the aggregate to at least narrow down my list some? Apparently no, I have to read reviews for the ones lower on the spectrum as it might be just people throwing a tantrum in their reviews! Great. Now what if I had 30 candidates? etc etc. I think I've got some Saint's Row in my future. I missed out on the superior game.
Shifty1897
Member
Negative reviews help steer other people away from buying this game, it also affects whether people will buy future games from the developer/publisher. This is a good way to protest anti-consumer practices. Single player modding was supported by the devs until this happened. Voting with your wallet is the number one way to get companies to listen.
Kssio_Aug
Member
Dishonest is forbid legit buyers to use mods in single player at this point, when so many people bought because of them (some double or triple dipped GTA V after playing console versions for this reason alone), while at the same time doing nothing to make the online community better. There's nothing dishonest in giving a negative score for a game you feel disappointed with and explaining why.
It isn't dishonest. Different audiences have different tastes and different standards. GTAV without modding is not a game I would recommend.
Dick Justice
Banned
If my posts bother you so much, follow your own advice and stop participating.
Also with regards to my "made up quotes", it's called being hypothetical. Y'know, based off of the weird fanboy responses in this very thread.
A huge amount of people purchased this game twice, once on pc for modding since the GTA Modding scene is extremely amazing at times. Rockstar have been ok with mods in the past and have even promoted OpenIV content on their own website.
Fast forward to recent weeks just after Take-Twos CEO says the company needs to minutiae it's games more and take advantage of users and suddenly the mod tool for Single Player content gets C&D'd, which I've read, not because of Online, which they publicly said, but because their tools allowed users to inject content into their game.
Both Rockstar and Take-Two publicly lie, blame OpenIV for GTAO hacks, and brush off further claims with a "decline to respond".
They tried to then and a gag order on people speaking pushing this news to websites.
And yet people here are still defending Take-Two?
Let me tell you about FiveM, where gaming websites had to stop posting about the case otherwise they were threatened of being black listed by Take-Two. A case where they used Pi's to track down the initial creator, take him to court, publicly shame him over his mental illness (autism) and then threaten him by saying they'll drag the case out until they would bankrupt him (he still owes money for court costs to this day).
And let me further remind people that FiveM was meant to be a modding alternative for GTAO.
Still think Take-Two and Rockstar are being treated unfairly?
Fast forward to recent weeks just after Take-Twos CEO says the company needs to minutiae it's games more and take advantage of users and suddenly the mod tool for Single Player content gets C&D'd, which I've read, not because of Online, which they publicly said, but because their tools allowed users to inject content into their game.
Both Rockstar and Take-Two publicly lie, blame OpenIV for GTAO hacks, and brush off further claims with a "decline to respond".
They tried to then and a gag order on people speaking pushing this news to websites.
And yet people here are still defending Take-Two?
Let me tell you about FiveM, where gaming websites had to stop posting about the case otherwise they were threatened of being black listed by Take-Two. A case where they used Pi's to track down the initial creator, take him to court, publicly shame him over his mental illness (autism) and then threaten him by saying they'll drag the case out until they would bankrupt him (he still owes money for court costs to this day).
And let me further remind people that FiveM was meant to be a modding alternative for GTAO.
Still think Take-Two and Rockstar are being treated unfairly?
It's called being hyperbolic actually.
And nah, I like to follow and participate in this thread since there's a good discussion going on. But I'll try to skip your responses from now on, thanks for the advice.
You can do whatever you want, but reviews were always meant to be read in order to understand the reviewer's position. On Steam you can't even give it a score (unless you put it as part of your text), it's just whether or not you recommend the game and then why.
I'm not sure what's so bad about that. Oh no, you have to spend a few seconds for each game to see what the main issues are.
Taste is subjective anyway, so you should be reading it to know if the reasons that made people dislike it also apply to you. Did you never enjoy a game with a low metacritic score in your life?
Kssio_Aug
Member
Some people seems to have a false idea that a review is just about a game being good or not - gameplay, story, writing. A review is suppose to point out it's flaws, including technical issues and whatever else. I've seen some great games that runs poorly on PC and for that reason got a negative (or simply: not recommended). With GTA that's not different... it may be a good game, but the mod prohibition at this point is a reason to "not recommend". Simple as that.
Because people aren't reviewing the game anymore. I need to spend way more time than just few seconds to even find a review that not only complains about the mod bans but also tells what they think about the game. Review isn't really helpful if I only hear about the problem(s), where does it succeed is also important information. Someone who isn't looking for a game to mod but just to play isn't getting any help from these reviews.
What is there to read in review like this "You ban our mods, we ban your income.".
Immortal Technique
Member
So aggregates are of no value whatsoever? They shouldn't even be there?
Agreed, especially since people aren't going to follow through and actually start to boycott them. Talk is cheap.
I do worry for those smaller studios under Paradox though.
Kssio_Aug
Member
Aggregate has it's value. But how much value it has, depends on you. If that's what it takes for you to buy a game... then GTA V is not a game for you! Not anymore at least. lmao
Immortal Technique
Member
Over 4,000 games were released on Steam last year. Aggregate is a tool I'd like to have in my arsenal, in a perfect world. That's what I'm trying to get at is whether user reviews should serve us, the users, or should be a referendum on the publisher.
Kssio_Aug
Member
Aggregate will never be perfect though. It's a tool to help people but should never be a deciding factor for anything. And again, the game is not getting unfair negative reviews, it's getting those low "scores" for a legitimate reason.
Negative reviews won't really do anything. The game has been out for 4 years overall, and 2 years on PC. An overwhelming majority of the people who have wanted to play the game have already bought it. Take Two's focus isn't on sales of the game anymore, but on the existing user base spending more and more money on GTA Online. Hence why they want to stop these mods so people don't start playing those instead of GTA Online which is their new cash cow.
Immortal Technique
Member
So help me out, in what way should I use the aggregate as a tool?
PleaseDontBanMe
Banned
I'm lazy and don't feel like reading through a wall of text or 10 pages of comments
so I need a summary
Did they take away people's ability to mod the game?
If so that sucks
so I need a summary
Did they take away people's ability to mod the game?
If so that sucks
Kssio_Aug
Member
To take a fast look at the most recommended games for example. Which is not GTA V case nowadays.
I double dipped at full price (bought it at launch).
I need to find a gif that expresses my feelings.
But considering how much I played, I guess I still got my moneys worth.
Still disappointing though.
That is another issue entirely. When you don't have "protest reviews", then it's a bunch of kids trying to be funny or edgy. Steam reviews are hot garbage for actually informed opinions on games, have always been. This is actually a constructive use of the feature compared to the average game.