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Media Create Sales: Week 27, 2017 (Jul 03 - Jul 09)

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
X|X-2 HD did ~350k FW on PS3 and Vita. Huge drop.

Hakoniwa looks like it hit the basement Hero Must Die and Penny Punching Princess went to. Except with seemingly a much higher budget. PS4 has really been absolute garbage for them in Japan.

SE and NIS with some "smart" PS4-only picks.

I don't think we've actually seen any PhyreEngine games on the Switch, and Unreal Engine 4 only became officially shippable on it a few months ago, so I don't think it's too surprising neither of those would be ready yet.

I guess they could have delayed the Japanese release of both games, but this is a pretty good timing for the overseas release of FFXII given the lack of competition.

........media create thread though. And FF12 is also not as popular than FF10 outside of japan so i can see the sales outside of jp not doing that hot too.
I don't think we can pretend that these companies are making vacuum decisions on these products though if we want realistic analysis of business decisions.

I'm sure a Vita port of GTA V would be a great idea for Japan, but I think you probably immediately understand why that didn't happen and wouldn't actually be worthwhile to Rockstar.

Similarly, if we had an Indian game sales thread, should we be condemning Square Enix for not putting Final Fantasy XIII on the PS2, or should we be realistic about what place the Indian game market has in the game's overall business?
 

ULTROS!

People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
X|X-2 HD did ~350k FW on PS3 and Vita. Huge drop.

I get this feeling that even if FFXII is a mainline FF game, FFXII isn't exactly loved and popular in Japan.
 

sense

Member
What should people be saying about Japanese sales in a Japanese Sales thread?

........media create thread though. And FF12 is also not as popular than FF10 outside of japan so i can see the sales outside of jp not doing that hot too.

I know it makes sense since this is the Media Create topic...
Gee thanks guys i didnt know this was japan sales thread..... He was making fun of the publishers for going ps4 only and i just wanted to say those decisions are not made solely with japan sales in mind....
 

Shizuka

Member
I don't think we can pretend that these companies are making vacuum decisions on these products though if we want realistic analysis of business decisions.

I'm sure a Vita port of GTA V would be a great idea for Japan, but I think you probably immediately understand why that didn't happen and wouldn't actually be worthwhile to Rockstar.

Similarly, if we had an Indian game sales thread, should we be condemning Square Enix for not putting Final Fantasy XIII on the PS2, or should we be realistic about what place the Indian game market has in the game's overall business?

While decisions may not make sense locally, it might make sense globally, is what you're saying. I agree with that, but discussing decisions made by japanese companies aimed at the japanese market is what people do here. In that sense, both companies being japanese and the japanese market being stronger with handhelds, the lack of a Vita or Switch release shows how the PS4 audience can hardly carry the market by itself.

I'm sure that with those two games in particular, western sales will make up for it with FFXII HD and NIS will probably port the other one to the Switch for a western release.
 

ULTROS!

People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
Gee thanks guys i didnt know this was japan sales thread..... He was making fun of the publishers for going ps4 only and i just wanted to say those decisions are not made solely with japan sales in mind....

This is true though, the fact that FFXII:TZA came out worldwide 2 days before the JP release is obvious that the target is the West, not necessarily Japan. Compared to FFX/X-2 HD, it had a 3 month gap between the JP release (Dec 2013) and the WW release (March 2014). :p
 

Vena

Member
I guess they could have delayed the Japanese release of both games, but this is a pretty good timing for the overseas release of FFXII given the lack of competition.

I don't think we can pretend that these companies are making vacuum decisions on these products though if we want realistic analysis of business decisions.

I think you're right in that the decision is obviously made with a global sense in mind but then, I think, this is a bit of stickler at least with NIS behavior which could be argued to err on stubbornness rather than logic. For FFXII, I think its much more logical as FFXII feels like a title more suited to western fans unlike FFX.

To quote Shizuka, as this makes the point:

I'm sure that with those two games in particular, western sales will make up for it with FFXII HD and NISA will probably port the other one to the Switch for a western release.

At which point, and with this rather pathetic performance, you may as well have just waited.

So its not a blanket case either way but in some cases.
 

Shizuka

Member
At which point, and with this rather pathetic performance, you may as well have just waited.

So its not a blanket case either way but in some cases.

I agree, but then again, NIS has been living off of these 5k sellers for a few years, with the odd 30k+ sellers like Coven or Yomawari.
 

Vena

Member
I agree, but then again, NIS has been living off of these 5k sellers for a few years, with the odd 30k+ sellers like Coven or Yomawari.

I'd question if the title would have performed *worse* had it released a few months later, or maybe better, with such low "ceilings".
 

ULTROS!

People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
I agree, but then again, NIS has been living off of these 5k sellers for a few years, with the odd 30k+ sellers like Coven or Yomawari.

Maybe their 5k sellers are made by interns who just want experience or something.
 

Takao

Banned
do you think final fantasy xiii hd trilogy would sell more or less than tza

I agree, but then again, NIS has been living off of these 5k sellers for a few years, with the odd 30k+ sellers like Coven or Yomawari.

Their real low sellers are usually lower budget projects like visual novels, or games you wouldn't be mistaken for thinking are from one-man indie teams. Hakoniwa was on a larger scale and unlike other bombas, I do think it would've sold better if it was on a handheld. PS4 has just been trash for NIS in Japan. Disgaea 5 flopped, so did Hundred Knight 2 and now this.

I guess it could pull a 3D Dot Game Heroes in the west.
 

ULTROS!

People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
do you think final fantasy xiii hd trilogy would sell more or less than tza.

100%.

Japan and Asia are probably the only places in the world where Lightning is recognized.

Unlike some other protagonist named... Vaan?
 

casiopao

Member
Mario Odyssey

What a sweet sweet dream lol.

It's not the Edo period, Japan isn't isolated anymore.

Japan game sales market is still heavily different compared to western market though so mostly linking both west and jp market is futile.

Gee thanks guys i didnt know this was japan sales thread..... He was making fun of the publishers for going ps4 only and i just wanted to say those decisions are not made solely with japan sales in mind....

I know what u are saying lol. As FF12 is not popular in japan. I am just saying that he is talking about jp market and how big the drop from 10 to 12 will be there.

I do agree with SE move here though as i dont see vita or switch port of ff12 will sales like a lot in japan at all.
 

Takao

Banned
100%.

Japan and Asia are probably the only places in the world where Lightning is recognized.

Unlike some other protagonist named... Vaan?

I don't know. The huge drops between sequels for XIII tell me that Lightning approval might only go so far as character merch sales.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
While decisions may not make sense locally, it might make sense globally, is what you're saying. I agree with that, but discussing decisions made by japanese companies aimed at the japanese market is what people do here. In that sense, both companies being japanese and the japanese market being stronger with handhelds, the lack of a Vita or Switch release shows how the PS4 audience can hardly carry the market by itself.

I'm sure that with those two games in particular, western sales will make up for it with FFXII HD and NIS will probably port the other one to the Switch for a western release.

I agree, but then again, NIS has been living off of these 5k sellers for a few years, with the odd 30k+ sellers like Coven or Yomawari.

My core contention here would be that I feel people look at games from Japanese publishers, especially smaller Japanese publishers, and assume they're targeting and/or living off of Japan. I think that's notably incorrect.

Let's just look at Nippon Ichi's last game for example.

Disgaea 5 Complete shipped shipped less than 20K in Japan, and the last it charted well enough for us to get sales numbers, it had sold 5000 copies.

By comparison, Western pre-orders alone were over 110,000 copies.

This isn't a company living off of 5K sellers in Japan. It's a company living off of overseas sales.

Whether Nippon Ichi likes it or not, their primary target audience is the West now.

Similarly, the reason it doesn't really matter what they did with Hakoniwa in Japan is that no one in Japan wants their dedicated device games, full stop. Could they have got another 5K releasing it on Switch at the same time? Sure, maybe, but it's irrelevant, because it's a meaningless difference in terms of floating the company. Given how badly their last Switch game did in the region, who knows if Japanese retailers even wanted to order Switch copies of the thing, since they're still stuck with a mountain of Disgaea.

I at least totally get the amount of scrutinization surrounding Monster Hunter. That's a series that actually sells overwhelming in Japan. Similarly I could get Nihon Falcom, as they still sell a good chunk of their business domestically. I could even get Final Fantasy, since while 1 out of 6+ million is a pretty small chunk percentage wise, it's at least a large absolute number. But Nippon Ichi's Japanese releases? They're just not relevant. It's the same situation as all the fighting games just announced at EVO. These things exist for the overseas market and don't move enough at home to even be worth announcing in Japan first despite all these companies hailing from there.
 

hiska-kun

Member
Tsutaya's Ranking Week 28 2017

01./00. [PS4] Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age <RPG> (Square Enix)
02./00. [3DS] Hey! Pikmin <ACT> (Nintendo)
03./00. [3DS] Ever Oasis <RPG> (Nintendo)

04./01. [PS4] Gundam Versus <ACT> (Bandai Namco Games)
05./04. [NSW] Mario Kart 8 Deluxe <RCE> (Nintendo)
06./02. [PS4] Gundam Versus (Premium G Sound Edition) <ACT> (Bandai Namco Games)
07./03. [NSW] ARMS <ACT> (Nintendo)
08./00. [3DS] 100% Pascal Sensei: Kanpeki Paint Bombers <PZL> (Konami)
09./00. [PS4] Hakoniwa Company Works <RPG> (Nippon Ichi Software)
10./07. [NSW] The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild <ADV> (Nintendo)
11./05. [3DS] Radiant Historia: Perfect Chronology <RPG> (Atlus)
12./11. [3DS] Monster Hunter Double Cross <ACT> (Capcom)
13./12. [PS4] NieR: Automata <RPG> (Square Enix)
14./10. [PS4] Call of Duty: Black Ops III - Game of the Year Edition <ACT> (Sony Interactive)
15./06. [PSV] Omega Labyrinth Z <RPG> (D3Publisher)
16./13. [PS4] Minecraft: PlayStation 4 Edition <ADV> (Sony Computer Entertainment)
17./14. [PS4] Portal Knights <ACT> (Spike Chunsoft)
18./18. [PS4] Grand Theft Auto V [New Price Edition] <ACT> (Take-Two Interactive Japan)
19./08. [PS4] Omega Labyrinth Z <RPG> (D3Publisher)
20./20. [3DS] Animal Crossing: New Leaf - Welcome amiibo <ETC> (Nintendo)
 

Vena

Member
Given how badly their last Switch game did in the region, who knows if Japanese retailers even wanted to order Switch copies of the thing, since they're still stuck with a mountain of Disgaea.

Is this actually true? I don't think any/many of the Switch launch titles at retail can even be found, they were incredibly limited.
 

fahr

Member
I actually agree that federation force was dead the minute they attached the Metroid name to it. You don't go for 6-8 years without a true Metroid title then drop a co-op shooter on us and call it Metroid. It's actually a pretty good game. If it was a new IP people may have given it a chance. As a Metroid title it was blacklisted before people even gave it a chance.
 
I don't know. The huge drops between sequels for XIII tell me that Lightning approval might only go so far as character merch sales.
I do think the originai XIII was liked by the Japanese fans unlike XII so an HD remaster should do decent-ish at 200k min. Overseas, I am not sure about that as I think TZA is more popular.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
Is this actually true? I don't think any/many of the Switch launch titles at retail can even be found, they were incredibly limited.

Well, it depends where the chart cuts off, since they shipped a bit under 20K, only sold 20-40% of the shipment the first week, and then were below whatever the weekly number cutoff was after their 5K debut.
 

Vena

Member
Well, it depends where the chart cuts off, since they shipped a bit under 20K, only sold 20-40% of the shipment the first week, and then were below whatever the weekly number cutoff was after their 5K debut.

Only reason I ask is because I know some of the releases are hard to find, and I know that Vinnk has mentioned never seeing any of the titles (from launch) on discount or in stock.
 

cw_sasuke

If all DLC came tied to $13 figurines, I'd consider all DLC to be free
Depends what the mobile game is as i could see that if done properly satisfying a lot of the AC demand and thus lower sales for the switch game (but make nintendo a boat load of cash in the process)

That wont happen....Nintendo wont design mobile games that kills their big console IPs in the same process.
 

KtSlime

Member
I actually agree that federation force was dead the minute they attached the Metroid name to it. You don't go for 6-8 years without a true Metroid title then drop a co-op shooter on us and call it Metroid. It's actually a pretty good game. If it was a new IP people may have given it a chance. As a Metroid title it was blacklisted before people even gave it a chance.
I feel if there was a higher degree of resources put towards the title it would've been received better. 3DS is not the best platform for 3D shooters. If the game had just been delayed and put on Switch in 2017 along with MP4 and Metroid 2: Samus returns being anounced. People would likely have been more excited about Federation Force and the backlash wouldn't have happened.
 

Ninferno

Member
3000+ people joined the lottery for 240 Switches today. Like, why even bother...

140415ey1z11vajlykyyay.jpg
 

Chris1964

Sales-Age Genius
In other words the price collapse is slower than it was for Final Fantasy 15.

For the record, I don't think the sales of a niche simulation RPG in Japan will tell us much of anything about what the market will and won't do and how 3rd parties will react.

There is no price collapse. 19% is a typical discount for amazon.
 

Oregano

Member
I at least totally get the amount of scrutinization surrounding Monster Hunter. That's a series that actually sells overwhelming in Japan. Similarly I could get Nihon Falcom, as they still sell a good chunk of their business domestically. I could even get Final Fantasy, since while 1 out of 6+ million is a pretty small chunk percentage wise, it's at least a large absolute number. But Nippon Ichi's Japanese releases? They're just not relevant. It's the same situation as all the fighting games just announced at EVO. These things exist for the overseas market and don't move enough at home to even be worth announcing in Japan first despite all these companies hailing from there.

Ehhh whilst there's an undeniable decline in the Japanese market I think a large amount of it is either because the publishers don't do anything to slow it and/or willingly accelerate it. Even in regards to Nippon Ichi I think there's an element of too little, too late.

Wow. Bomba!

Good thing West completely saved third party support from NIS.

But I heard you should go PS4-only if you're aiming at the west.... hmmm
 

noshten

Member
PREDICTION LEAGUE DRAGON QUEST XI EDITION

Predict how much these titles will sell in the week (from Jul 24 to Jul 30):

[PS4] PlayStation 4 Hardware (7 days) - 96.000
[3DS] Nintendo 3DS Hardware (7 days) - 87.000
[PS4] Dragon Quest XI (2 days) - 910.000
[3DS] Dragon Quest XI (2 days) - 1.000.000
 
Was probably built with ports for the west in mind since it's in UE4.

At which point, and with this rather pathetic performance, you may as well have just waited.

I think the idea was more that either: pick an engine that would run on Vita so you could at least garner some Japanese sales; or wait and port to Switch in Japan as Vena says, rather than what appears to be an absolutely abysmal domestic result.

I'm sure a Vita port of GTA V would be a great idea for Japan, but I think you probably immediately understand why that didn't happen and wouldn't actually be worthwhile to Rockstar.

Well, the sales any of NIS's titles get worldwide (included Disgaea at its peak) would be pocket change to Rockstar, so I would hope they wouldn't make any decisions based on this. Heck, GTA V's Japanese sales in general are insignificant in the grand scheme of things for the company.

Let's just look at Nippon Ichi's last game for example.

Well I mean, Nippon Ichi's last game was Exile Election, a somewhat DanganRonpa clone that appears to have been solely targeted at the Japanese market given how NISA have been incredibly wary of localizing any visual novels.

We may see a shift given how they're becoming increasingly reliant on the west, but it certainly seems like the Japanese branch are still happy trying (and failing) to cater to the domestic market.
 

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
It's 40% off on Amazon a week after release. I'm guessing other retailers will follow suit if they haven't already.

Not just 40% off, but 40% off sold directly by Amazon (it can happen that a game gets a bigger discount when units are sold by a third party). If it stands...yep, that's fast as hell.
 

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
"Mountains of Disgaea" surely doesn't seem to reflect the actual reality of the situation. We've had reports in the past from both zeromcd and Vinnk on how difficult it was to find copies for both Disgaea 5 and I am Setsuna on shelves, with prices for used copies actually increasing at the time (I think it was around one month ago). That surely doesn't look like a game which has mountains of copies on shelves.

Actually, Amazon.co.jp's price could be a good index of this as well: a 19% discount is completely normal (actually still a bit less than usual) for a physical game over there; this means that even on Amazon there's no excess of stock. There is stock, but not excessively, and so there's no need for major price cuts. This is actually true for all Switch's launch titles, and it's rather unusual compared to what happened several times in the recent past, i.e. launch games getting first shipments with sales through time in mind, failing to catch on as much as expected and then bigger price cuts to move copies off the shelves. Certainly a better / more cautious first-shipment management this time, but also sales going in the desired direction.

There's also what has potentially appeared from my own cross-tracker analysis, up to Week 25, 2017

Media Create: Road to 1.000.000 hardware

PS4 - 46 weeks - 2.500.000 software
WIU - 33 weeks - 1.634.000 software
NSW - 17 weeks - 1.724.000 software

First Party

Total first party sales - > 1,402,903*

Mario Kart 8 Deluxe - 535,636
The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild - 513,038
1-2 Switch - > 224,829*
Arms - 129,400

* Added Week 25, 2017's sales for the game at 20th in MC Charts to 1-2 Switch's LTD for Week 24, 2017 in order to get a ceiling

Third party

Total third party sales - > 321,097

Let's consider all the third party known sales so far

Super Bomberman R (as of Week 17, 2017) - 77,015
Dragon Quest Heroes I-II for Nintendo Switch (as of Week 12, 2017) - 41,419
Seiken Densetsu Collection - 37,728 (as of Week 24, 2017)
Ultra Street Fighter II: The Final Challengers (as of Week 22, 2017) - 21,139
Puyo Puyo Tetris S (as of Week 10, 2017) - 17,323
Minna de Wai Wai! Spelunker (as of Week 16, 2017) - 7,447

Total known sales - 202,071

Third party sales still unkown (Disgaea 5: Complete + I am Sestuna + Nobunaga's Ambition: Sphere of Influence with Power Up Kit + Romance of the Three Kingdoms XIII with Power Up Kit + all the other games with weekly sales missing) - 119,026

________________________________________________________

Cross-tracker theory (so, it can't be 100% reliable) by assuming Dengeki post-launch sales were similar to MC's sales outside of Top 20, going with MC debuts

First party

Total first party sales - 1,402,603

Mario Kart 8 Deluxe - 535,636
The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild - 513,038
1-2 Switch - 224,529
Arms - 129,400

Third party

Total third party sales - 321,397

Super Bomberman R - 92,427
Dragon Quest Heroes I-II for Nintendo Switch - 58,524 (as of Week 23, 2017) | < 60,079*
Puyo Puyo Tetris S - 40,965 (as of Week 24, 2017) | < 41,876*
Seiken Densetsu Collection - 39,084
Ultra Street Fighter II: The Final Challengers - 24,595 (as of Week 24, 2017) | < 25,506*
Minna de Wai Wai! Spelunker (as of Week 20, 2017) - 14,211 (as of Week 20, 2017) | < 18,275**

* same criteria used for 1-2 Switch, but translated with Dengeki numbers and by using the sales at 50th for each week in order to get a ceiling
** the weakest estimate considering how many recent Dengeki charts it missed

Total theorical sales - < 277,247

Third party sales for the titles that never appeared on MC top 20 (Disgaea 5: Complete + I am Setsuna + Nobunaga's Ambition: Sphere of Influence with Power Up Kit + Romance of the Three Kingdoms XIII with Power Up Kit) - > 44,150

It's unfortunate that we have to rely on mixing Media Create and Dengeki, but I also suppose the actual MC numbers shouldn't be that far from my estimates.

Basically, as of Week 25, 2017, going by these numbers, there are over 44,000 copies sold for Disgaea 5, I am Setsuna and the two KT launch ports. Again, these are cross-tracker estimates, so there are probably going to be some inaccurancies.

Still, let's consider that Nobunaga's Ambition had a 2k debut, while RotTK debuted with 1k at max (going by Dengeki): this means that, even implying both games have had legs, it could be a good idea to put their sum at around 10k at max. With that assumption, we have Disgaea 5 + I am Setsuna at over 34,000. Disgaea 5 debuted higher than I am Setsuna and it charted more times in MC Weekly Top 50s, so it could be a good assumption to make it's higher - thus, more than 17,000 copies sold.
 

Oregano

Member
In the article about the western preorders the NIS dood says it sold less than 20k in Japan which would imply its at least above 10k.
 

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
But I heard you should go PS4-only if you're aiming at the west.... hmmm

Hopefully the people who think so don't look at what's going on with Nights of Azure 2 on Amazon.com :p

In the article about the western preorders the NIS dood says it sold less than 20k in Japan which would imply its at least above 10k.

That was also back in mid-May, while Week 25 (the reference I'm using) ended on June 25th, 2017. So Disgaea 5 moved a bit more units (even if slowly).
 

test_account

XP-39C²
It's unfortunate that we have to rely on mixing Media Create and Dengeki, but I also suppose the actual MC numbers shouldn't be that far from my estimates.
Is there any need to mix the trackers? Isnt it better to just stick to Dengeki in that case?
 

LordKano

Member
Hopefully the people who think so don't look at what's going on with Nights of Azure 2 on Amazon.com :p

Its release date is so dumb tho, like, any other day would have been better than launching it the same day as Super Mario Odyssey, Wolfenstein II, Assassin's Creed Origins.
 

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
Is there any need to mix the trackers? Isnt it better to just stick to Dengeki in that case?

Media Create published the total software sold up to Week 25, 2017, so I have to take MC known numbers per game as a starting point at least. My analysis still includes a non-mixed-tracker look at numbers, based on the ones we actually know.
 
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