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[SomedayTheFire]

I could see your point if throughout the 7 hours Jim Sterling had been playing the game before encountering the "bug" he had been feeling mad at it. But he wasn't. He was actually enjoying it a lot. He chose to completely disregard everything positive about the game up until that point and demote it to "broken crap" because he got what he thought was a game-breaking bug. He didn't even "present a single perspective that could be relevant to the player". He just said "unplayable PoS 1/10". Don't tell me a review is "my experience, as a critic" if you are going to pick and choose your experience as a critic because you're frustrated at the game.



I wonder how many people have played the game so extensively that they have been affected by this design decision. By the way you put it, the vast majority of players are being cut short in their playthroughs because the game keeps deleting their saves.

Unless, of course, by "people" you mean "the hot takes made in this thread by users who are just now hearing about this game".

Is the game literally breaking before the end not enough to say that? If that is a bug that kills all progress and stops any further progress are we not allowed to judge that? Because damn if any game did that to me I'd drop it in an instant and tell people about it.

 

[A.J.]

Good on Jim for redacting his review and admitting his mistake. I give him some respect for for that.

 

[Z3M0G]

Good on Jim for redacting his review and admitting his mistake. I give him some respect for for that.

Holy shit I just saw that in the OP... should be an interesting set of reads...

Edit: Wait, videos??? And he took the first one down!?!?!

Edit: I would call what he encountered a BUG for sure, and DEFINITELY a game-breaking one.

 

[Savantcore]

Is there a way to reverse the permadeath mechanic before it kicks in?

Say it takes 10 deaths to delete your save - is that throughout the entire game, or can you claw some lives back by going through large chunks without dying?

 

[SomedayTheFire]

Holy shit I just saw that in the OP... should be an interesting set of reads...

Edit: Wait, videos??? And he took the first one down!?!?!

He had what he thought was a game breaking bug. Enjoyed the game but gave it a 1 because he couldn't finish it due to the aforementioned bug. Redacted it and produced a follow up video.

Edit: missed your second edit.

 

[UpDownLeftRight]

And that's why you make it an option. For the people that like it, let them play with it. But for everyone else, the option is to just not buy the game. Which sucks, because it seems like an interesting game otherwise.

I'm not even adverse to perma death either as I've played many games where it works. An 8 hour story focused game though should not be deleting saves IMO. If I bought this, got halfway then get perma death I'd just delete it and never look back.

 

[Hektor]

And that's why you make it an option. For the people that like it, let them play with it. But for everyone else, the option is to just not buy the game. Which sucks, because it seems like an interesting game otherwise.

https://twitter.com/britishgaming/status/894888633710374913

 

[RPGamer92]

Since the game reviews didn't come out until today, I got nervous. But even with Jim's unfortunate bug, it still seems like a very solid game and much bigger improvement over past NT games!

 

[RoboPlato]

I'm not even adverse to perma death either as I've played many games where it works. An 8 hour story focused game though should not be deleting saves IMO. If I bought this, got halfway then get perma death I'd just delete it and never look back.

The game adjusts difficulty by default. It tries to keep you alive unless you change it.

 

[FalsettoVibe]

Wait.....dying too many times will cause you save file to be deleted?

 

[Mr. Phellps]

Honestly wasn't expecting such high praise for this game, it didn't look like much from the promotional material they released. I guess they didn't want to show too much!
Good to know it's a good game.

 

[Alienous]

I could see your point if throughout the 7 hours Jim Sterling had been playing the game before encountering the "bug" he had been feeling mad at it. But he wasn't. He was actually enjoying it a lot. He chose to completely disregard everything positive about the game up until that point and demote it to "broken crap" because he got what he thought was a game-breaking bug. He didn't even "present a single perspective that could be relevant to the player". He just said "unplayable PoS 1/10". Don't tell me a review is "my experience, as a critic" if you are going to pick and choose your experience as a critic because you're frustrated at the game.

I tend to agree that the game should have been reviewed as if the credits rolled at the game-breaking point, so we're on the same page. But a particularly bad experience could overshadow it all - as I said, if DRM were to prevent progress in an enjoyable game your conclusion might be 'don't bother'.

 

[Toni]

Wait.....dying too many times will cause you save file to be deleted?

The "Git Gud" fanatics will love this.

 

[Resident_UA]

This looks great! I had no idea that it existed!

 

[Arcteryx]

Yo! Can a mod please put this at the top of the thread (or the title lol)?

Permadeath:
* it's not one life
* the game has an easy mode
* it requires a LOT of deaths to trigger (beyond the scope of normal play, you'd honestly have to go out of your way)
* the game "resets" the mechanic based upon checkpoints (it will only allow you to have X amount of the mechanic at certain points, so if you have X+N after entering a new chapter, it will reset to X)
* if all else fails...just cheese your saves

I'm playing on Hard and have died once to a balance beam after 4 hours. And I've also NEVER gotten out of the first 30 minutes of Bloodborne. This game is EASY.

 

[Roshin]

Wait.....dying too many times will cause you save file to be deleted?

Nice of them to waste my time by deleting the save.

 

[Z3M0G]

I'm OK with the save data delete thing. Reminds me of what another recent game has done (would be a huge spoiler to even name the game). But I'd be more OK if it was a 4 hour game than an 8 hour game... I'm still shocked it is that long. Can you quickly skip through stuff (ie cutscenes) to regain lost territory?

 

[Morrigan Stark]

How many deaths causes the permadeath anyway?

Anyone? That kinda seems like important information... Google hasn't been helpful either.

 

[semiconscious]

The game adjusts difficulty by default. It tries to keep you alive unless you change it.

if this is indeed accurate, then it might just be one of the most useless mechanics i've ever heard of. i mean, how is this, in any way, an improvement on no mechanic at all? wouldn't that be an even easier way to keep you alive? ...

 

[FaintDeftone]

Yo! Can a mod please put this at the top of the thread (or the title lol)?

Permadeath:
* it's not one life
* the game has an easy mode
* it requires a LOT of deaths to trigger (beyond the scope of normal play, you'd honestly have to go out of your way)
* the game "resets" the mechanic based upon checkpoints (it will only allow you to have X amount of the mechanic at certain points, so if you have X+N after entering a new chapter, it will reset to X)
* if all else fails...just cheese your saves

I'm playing on Hard and have died once to a balance beam after 4 hours. And I've also NEVER gotten out of the first 30 minutes of Bloodborne. This game is EASY.

Thank you for this. That makes me feel a bit better about it. Not to mention that I've watched almost every video review I've seen and this feature is barely mentioned nor has anyone complained about it being a problem. I'll still grab it today.

 

[EdwardTivrusky]

Nice of them to waste my time by deleting the save.

Apparently, it's called "challenge" or "risk" or something and it's a "good thing" it seems. Me, i'll just put the game on easy when i start playing.

I can't really complain about a game deleting saves as part of the experience as one of my favourite creators has done it previously albeit in a slightly different way from what i understand of how it's implemented here.

 

[TGO]

Should I buy or wait for physical release...or price drop.

 

[Tankard]

Wow, actually way better grades than i expected, makes me feel better about my purchase.

 

[FaintDeftone]

Should I buy or wait for physical release...or price drop.

I doubt we'll ever see a physical release. Part of the reason that it's priced so well is due to the fact that it's digital only.

 

[Kazuhira]

I must assume that the game is well balanced around that mechanic,i don't think the game is going to be that challenging to begin with.
Considering the length of the game i don't think perma-death will be that much of a issue imo,it could be a little annoying if you can't skip cutscenes though.
Of course that's just my two cents about the issue but i understand the reaction,perma-death modes have always been very polarizing.

 

[nelsonroyale]

Awesome! Very happy this worked out for NT. Good on them for tackling an original subject and bringing their high production skills to the table.

 

[Savantcore]

Seeing as it's barely come up in reviews, the permadeath thing mustn't be a huge issue. It adds an edge to the game but is actually more merciful than it appears.

I think it's a novel way to marry gameplay and theme in one and I'm looking forward to epxeriencing it.

 

[Megatron]

Wow, seems completely unnecessary and stupid no matter the context given. Sours me of even trying to play it considering my progress could be lost if I'm not good enough.

You wouldnt have made it in the 80's and early 90's.

 

[HueyFreeman]

Good on Jim for redacting his review and admitting his mistake. I give him some respect for for that.

I don't know - to me this illustrates the problematic nature of these big personalitied, volatile reviewers and their highly reactive, click-baitey reviews. One of the main reasons I don't go in for the Jim Sterling/Angry Joe etc. nonsense - they're more about gimmick than actual journalistic substance. Basically, [Eurogamer + reading about player experiences] for me.

Glad this is reviewing well, will grab it today.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

Should I buy or wait for physical release...or price drop.

I would not be counting on a physical release. They have no plans for one. That is part of keeping the costs low.

 

[Moze]

I mean, it is Ninja Theory game, who is honestly worried about dying? They are a developer that put platforming in a game without the ability to actually fail most of the platforming segments (Enslaved).

 

[rtcn63]

Yo! Can a mod please put this at the top of the thread (or the title lol)?

Permadeath:
* it's not one life
* the game has an easy mode
* it requires a LOT of deaths to trigger (beyond the scope of normal play, you'd honestly have to go out of your way)
* the game "resets" the mechanic based upon checkpoints (it will only allow you to have X amount of the mechanic at certain points, so if you have X+N after entering a new chapter, it will reset to X)
* if all else fails...just cheese your saves

I'm playing on Hard and have died once to a balance beam after 4 hours. And I've also NEVER gotten out of the first 30 minutes of Bloodborne. This game is EASY.

Begs the point- why have a deleted save mechanic at all when the game is incredibly easy even on the harder difficulty settings? If it's just for mental shock value, then any proper criticism is warranted.

 

[PulseONE]

Wow this reviewed better than I was expecting, I'm pleasantly surprised

 

[A.J.]

I don't know - to me this illustrates the problematic nature of these big personalitied, volatile reviewers and their highly reactive, click-baitey reviews. One of the main reasons I don't go in for the Jim Sterling/Angry Joe etc. nonsense - they're more about gimmick than actual journalistic substance. Basically, [Eurogamer + reading about player experiences] for me.

Glad this is reviewing well, will grab it today.

Well personally, I don't want to be hard on someone making a mistake like this if they are honest about it and want to help fix it. I can't help but feel empathetic because I've made mistakes that sucked in the past too.

 

[Lifeline]

Yo! Can a mod please put this at the top of the thread (or the title lol)?

Permadeath:
* it's not one life
* the game has an easy mode
* it requires a LOT of deaths to trigger (beyond the scope of normal play, you'd honestly have to go out of your way)
* the game "resets" the mechanic based upon checkpoints (it will only allow you to have X amount of the mechanic at certain points, so if you have X+N after entering a new chapter, it will reset to X)
* if all else fails...just cheese your saves

I'm playing on Hard and have died once to a balance beam after 4 hours. And I've also NEVER gotten out of the first 30 minutes of Bloodborne. This game is EASY.

If it's that easy, what's the point of adding a permadeath mode?

 

[Alienous]

Begs the point- why have a deleted save mechanic at all when the game is incredibly easy even on the harder difficulty settings? If it's just for mental shock value, then any proper criticism is warranted.

It could just be so that death doesn't feel trivial.

It does seem like something that could be balanced.

 

[SilentRob]

If it's that easy, what's the point of adding a permadeath mode?

To reinforce the game's themes. It's not mainly meant as a gameplay feature making the game more challenging but as a gameplay feature that serves to tell the story.

It's a pretty great idea. It doesn't actually have to be hard or frustrating to give you a fealing of dread and real danger. The possibility is there. It probably won't happen, but it technically could.

 

[Arcteryx]

Begs the point- why have a deleted save mechanic at all when the game is incredibly easy even on the harder difficulty settings? If it's just for mental shock value, then any proper criticism is warranted.

IMO it's simply there as yet another mechanic to put you in the mindset of Senua. It adds tension (artificially) and shows that you aren't really immortal/immune.

Spoiler

the game even says that Senua has died before, so the mechanic shouldn't freak you out

The game really goes out of its way to "yes/no" a lot of things (voices, routes, puzzles, etc.), all the which to add to the mental confusion.

Is it the best mechanic? no. Should it keep people away from the game? no.

To reinforce the game's themes. It's not mainly meant as a gameplay feature making the game more challenging but as a gameplay feature that serves to tell the story.

It's a pretty great idea. It doesn't actually have to be hard or frustrating to give you a fealing of dread and real danger. The possibility is there. It probably won't happen, but it technically could.

Nicely put.

 

[scitek]

So wait, this game has a mechanic that deletes your save file if you die too much?

Who in the fuck thought that was a good idea?

The same people who thought Nu Dante was a good idea.

EDIT: I played this last night and fell asleep in the first 15 minutes. I assume things pick up, but the intro is terribad.

 

[Glass Shark]

I’m usually not into games like this, but I feel like I have to play it just to see what all the controversy is about.

 

[midasmulligan]

It has binaural audio??

 

[TGMIII]

If it's that easy, what's the point of adding a permadeath mode?

I'd assume to further enforce the games narrative and tone. Not that it matters now since everything has been spilled about the implementation.

I don't often have good things to say about Ninja Theory, I don't even think that the implementation of it in this specific scenario is really all that interesting, but I think it's commendable that they've tried something like this. It's just a shame people would rather know every little piece of information rather than experiencing it for themselves.

 

[HueyFreeman]

The notion of permadeath - as long as I know about it in advance, honestly seems pretty awesome to me in a mainstream action game like this. Bravo, NT.

Well personally, I don't want to be hard on someone making a mistake like this if they are honest about it and want to help fix it. I can't help but feel empathetic because I've made mistakes that sucked in the past too.

Totally - has nothing to do with a mistake, which humans will make. I'm just saying the inherent pressure to attract attention, get the review out immediately and cater to the personality-based review crowd is going to result in errors like this. He's only too happy to publish a highly controversial review. Also, if this is journalism - which is questionable - part of the mission there is good editorial work to prevent this, and particularly when it is damaging for a developer to have a review like that in the wild at the time of release, for however long.

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

Has this game been released yet?

 

[Hektor]

Has this game been released yet?

yes

 

[MoogleMan]

I don't know - to me this illustrates the problematic nature of these big personalitied, volatile reviewers and their highly reactive, click-baitey reviews. One of the main reasons I don't go in for the Jim Sterling/Angry Joe etc. nonsense - they're more about gimmick than actual journalistic substance. Basically, [Eurogamer + reading about player experiences] for me.

Glad this is reviewing well, will grab it today.

Exactly this. They're less about actual reviews, and more about reaction.

 

[More_Badass]

Begs the point- why have a deleted save mechanic at all when the game is incredibly easy even on the harder difficulty settings? If it's just for mental shock value, then any proper criticism is warranted.

It's using the concept of permadeath as a means of storytelling and to express the game's themes, not in the traditional roguelike idea of permadeath

 

[TGO]

I doubt we'll ever see a physical release. Part of the reason that it's priced so well is due to the fact that it's digital only.

Price so well?
Its a independent release and the game is likely to be shorter if not the same length as Uncharted Lost Legacy which I have physical for 20 quid
£25-30 for a physical release is "well priced" for an independent but £25 for Digital only is a bit off putting when there are other games cheaper and physical, if it was £15-18 then it would be well Priced.
Hence why I ask, buy now or wait till price drop? Is it worth it?

 

[rtcn63]

It's using the concept of permadeath as a means of storytelling and to express the game's themes, not in the traditional roguelike idea of permadeath

Is the combat in the game a focus or is it just something tacked on to give players something to interact with? Because if you are making a game that deals with the challenges of mental health, and combat is a focus, then wouldn't it make sense that the combat be... challenging? In context.

 

[Glass Shark]

Now this article is claiming that the game doesn’t actually have permadeath anyway? https://www.pcgamesn.com/hellblade-senuas-sacrifice/hellblade-permadeath-bluff