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[SigmasonicX]

Well then.

At first I thought that returned to your hand, and I thought, "Eh, a bit unimpressive for an Eternal-only card, but it seems reasonable enough." Then I realized it reanimated.

If there are more tribal crossover cards like that, should we expect a monowhite vampire cat?

 

[Metroidvania]

I was going to say availability is pretty good, but apparently everything from 2016 is already wicked expensive so don't sleep on it more than the first couple months, I guess.

EDIT: Reeeeeally regretting not buying an Atraxa deck now.

Holy shit you're not kidding, I was kind of getting out of playing with Grad school, but daaaaaamn I should have bought the all-in-one pack.

This is almost, if not more than, the original sets cost increase (relative to their time of release, at least).

 

[Imperfected]

At first I thought that returned to your hand, and I thought, "Eh, a bit unimpressive for an Eternal-only card, but it seems reasonable enough." Then I realized it reanimated.

If there are more tribal crossover cards like that, should we expect a monowhite vampire cat?

They've already done a monoblack vampire cat, so may as well.

Maybe some kind of jaguar-headed blood priest to tie into Ixalan.

 

[TheBlackMarvel]

Seb McKinnon's Cuombajj Witches for MTGO, so beautiful!

I love it.

Spoiler

Chances of it being on a print card?

 

[ElyrionX]

Yes, today is wizards tribal day!

My first ever EDH deck was a janky UW wizards + angels tribal deck before I had any idea what the format was like. I mean, who doesn't love wizards and angels right?

 

[Yeef]

What's the availability of these decks usually? I know some of the previous decks have skyrocketed in price. Any reason to try and pick these up around release rather than waiting?

Up until last year, they were printed to demand. Starting with C16 they seem to be a limited print-run. Wizards Direct stopped carrying C16 just a few weeks after release; though there's a very slim chance that they just underestimated the popularity of 4-color commanders, but I doubt it.

 

[shrapnelmagnet]

Up until last year, they were printed to demand. Starting with C16 they seem to be a limited print-run. Wizards Direct stopped carrying C16 just a few weeks after release; though there's a very slim chance that they just underestimated the popularity of 4-color commanders, but I doubt it.

So annoying considering the speculation game that has really turned up in casual / EDH.

Starting to feel like every card I look at is like $5. Which really hurts if you want to play 4-of for an otherwise "bad" card just to try it.

 

[Card Boy]

Up until last year, they were printed to demand. Starting with C16 they seem to be a limited print-run. Wizards Direct stopped carrying C16 just a few weeks after release; though there's a very slim chance that they just underestimated the popularity of 4-color commanders, but I doubt it.

I got a copy of Breed Lethality sealed that plan on selling in a years time.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Funny that Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis ended up being my favourite commanders of the bunch.

They are really good when you couple them with land destruction and stax but people don't waste removal on them because they are greedy letting me get ahead.

 

[bigkrev]

Name a creature type, that type costs one less
At the beginning of upkeep, reveal top card of library. If it's the chosen type, put it in your hand (I think thats what this does? My High School spanish is rusty)

Also, Sol Ring is in

 

[Daedardus]

Name a creature type, that type costs one less
At the beginning of upkeep, reveal top card of library. If it's the chosen type, put it in your hand (I think thats what this does? My High School spanish is rusty)

Also, Sol Ring is in

I have never taken Spanish but it seems to check out with what I know from French. But maybe it's look at the card and reveal when it's the chosen type?

 

[Poodlestrike]

Name a creature type, that type costs one less
At the beginning of upkeep, reveal top card of library. If it's the chosen type, put it in your hand (I think thats what this does? My High School spanish is rusty)

Also, Sol Ring is in

That's what I've seen in various translations, more or less.

At the beginning of your Upkeep, you may reveal the top card of your library. If it's a creature card of the chosen type, you may put it into your hand.

So it won't work for Tribal spells, if those are in.

This guy is apparently nuts, tho:

Rough translation
5GG
Instant
Choose a creature type. Reveal the top cards of your library until you reveal X creatures of the chosen type, where X is the number of creatures you control of the chosen type, and place them onto the battlefield. Shuffle the other revealed cards into your library.

Named something like Summon the Tribe.

 

[bigkrev]

At the beginning of your Upkeep, you may reveal the top card of your library. If it's a creature card of the chosen type, you may put it into your hand.

Interesting- so it's only blind flips, but you choose if you want to do it? Not Delver style, where you get to look before deciding if you want to flip?

 

[jph139]

Man, this new generic tribal stuff is ace for my Allies deck. Almost too good honestly, in the way a lot of their Commander stuff is.

This guy is apparently nuts, tho:

Named something like Summon the Tribe.

Like, damn, this is pretty much an auto-win if I have more than three or four Allies on the board, and at least one of them is damaging.

 

[Santiako]

Interesting- so it's only blind flips, but you choose if you want to do it? Not Delver style, where you get to look before deciding if you want to flip?

No, it's not blind flip. It says "At the beginning of your upkeep, look at the top card of your library. If it's a creature card of the chosen type you may reveal it and put it in your hand."

This is a really nice reprint. It's not an expensive card, but a staple nonetheless.

 

[Santiako]

Today is Dragon Day (yay?)

Dragons, Dragons, and Cat Dragons.

Awesome land:

Nice enchantment:

Ur-Dragon:

Wasitora and Token:

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Don't like that land at all since it's CIPT but it's pretty sweet design.

 

[red13th]

Enters the battlefield or attacks. Whoa!

 

[Santiako]

O-Kagachi non-blurry

 

[bigkrev]

Gavin's article on the design of the set http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/dragons-dragons-and-cat-dragons-2017-08-08

The reasoning behind 4 decks instead of 5

In Magic R&D, there are a few layers of teams. You guys all know about design and Play Design and even exploratory design. But there's one team that seldom gets talked about but is extremely important: the Product Architecture team.

That team is led by Great Designer Search alumnus Mark Globus. One of Product Architecture's goals is to look at our wide range of sets and releases to give them a cohesive message and goal and, most importantly, to understand what we're doing from a 10,000-foot view.

After a lot of research, one thing that this team had decided was that this year, we would be moving down to four decks. Why four instead of five? Because we believe the best Commander play experience for a new Commander player is a four-player game, and releasing four decks mimicked how we thought it would be best for someone to start. We also wanted to make each deck more exciting by giving them more new cards.

Also, they are going to be doing themes instead of colors for the forseable future

One other thing Product Architecture had figured out is that if we moved away from five decks, we would need a new way to make our decks. In the past, we had done it by color. Five is kind of the golden standard in Magic: everything works well in fives because of monocolors, two-color pairs, three-color combinations, and even four-color combinations. But this change came at a fortuitous time because we had definitely started to exhaust most of the color pairings.

So, the other excellent conclusion they had reached is that, instead of being built around color, the decks would be built around themes.

That's right: starting with Commander 2017 and moving forward, the Commander sets will be built around themes rather than color.

One more curious thing that popped out to me...

We looked at several potential five-color decks. Elementals was one we looked at, since there are in all five colors. Slivers was a popular option, but turned out to be nightmarish if two people bought the same deck and ended up in a game against each other. Spirits was a consideration as well. (And ultimately, we made one of our five-color Dragon Commanders also a Spirit to help you build that deck if you wanted.)

The only way this makes sense is if Slivers acted they way they used to, and not the Slivers made for M14-15. Maybe they are finally going to admit that was a mistake?

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

so wizards realized what commander is about after 5 years?

 

[SigmasonicX]

Some notes from Gavin's article.
* Four Commander decks is the default now, since the most common Commander format is four player. Decks will be based on themes instead of colors.
* Tribal decks have the glaring weakness of having little room for noncreature spells.
* They considered Slivers for the five color deck, but it was nightmarish if two players used the same deck against each other.
* Eminence is different from Oloro and such, because they require you to build your deck in a certain way to really work.
* They planned on having one crossover creature in each deck, and Wasitora was brought in to backwards justify a monogreen cat dragon. In the end, all but the vampire wizard were cut, but Wasitora remained.

EDIT: Beaten by secret fifth ninja deck.

 

[Santiako]

The only way this makes sense is if Slivers acted they way they used to, and not the Slivers made for M14-15. Maybe they are finally going to admit that was a mistake?

I mean, to fill a deck with Slivers you have to put there many of the old ones.

 

[Zocano]

Wait commander is usuaully 4 player? Didn't know that.

Though I usually play "star" with my friends (I mean in general/any format we play multi together; usually cube draft).

 

[Simply Sarah]

* Tribal decks have the glaring weakness of having little room for noncreature spells.

This is part of why I think they shouldn't have done this unless they were willing to use Tribal again.

 

[SigmasonicX]

I mean, to fill a deck with Slivers you have to put there many of the old ones.

Yeah, this is the reason. They probably won't release a Slivers deck until it can be filled entirely with new ones.

 

[bigkrev]

I mean, to fill a deck with Slivers you have to put there many of the old ones.

If half the slivers in your deck worked one way and the other half worked another way, with no real way to tell at a glance, that would be an even worse nightmare. They would have to pick one style (old or new), and probably make a bunch of new Slivers as well

Why give the explicit reason of "2 people with the same deck would be a nightmare"?

 

[Zocano]

They don't wanna try tribal spells again? They even dipped back in w/ eldrazi again after shadowmoor.

 

[SigmasonicX]

If half the slivers in your deck worked one way and the other half worked another way, with no real way to tell at a glance, that would be an even worse nightmare. They would have to pick one style (old or new), and probably make a bunch of new Slivers as well

Why give the explicit reason of "2 people with the same deck would be a nightmare"?

Because they don't want to make that many new Sliver cards.

 

[Santiako]

If half the slivers in your deck worked one way and the other half worked another way, with no real way to tell at a glance, that would be an even worse nightmare. They would have to pick one style (old or new), and probably make a bunch of new Slivers as well

Why give the explicit reason of "2 people with the same deck would be a nightmare"?

Because they can't make 20 new slivers so they would have to put old ones hence the 2 people with the same deck would be a nightmare.

 

[Zocano]

Sliver mirror is hilarious, I think it's silly they veered from that in m15.

 

[SigmasonicX]

They don't wanna try tribal spells again? They even dipped back in w/ eldrazi again after shadowmoor.

They consider that a mistake. After all, it raises questions about what should and shouldn't be tribal (why isn't Goblin Grenade tribal?) and it almost never mattered when they tried it out in Innistrad, which is the most tribal recentish set.

 

[Zocano]

Yah that's fair and a good point with how that's an awkward design space.

 

[Yeef]

If half the slivers in your deck worked one way and the other half worked another way, with no real way to tell at a glance, that would be an even worse nightmare. They would have to pick one style (old or new), and probably make a bunch of new Slivers as well

Why give the explicit reason of "2 people with the same deck would be a nightmare"?

Because it literally only matters if someone else is playing slivers. If you're the only one playing slivers, there's no functional difference between the old and new slivers.

 

[Santiako]

Couple of dragons. The white one is decent, the red one seems pretty bad.

 

[alternade]

]

Couple of dragons. The white one is decent, the red one seems pretty bad.

I REALLY like Karmic Dragon.

Im still pulling out hope that Wizards will be the OP deck though

 

[FreedomFrisbee]

If you think of Territorial Hellkite like a form of Ball Lightning it's actually pretty good, but that's strictly in a 1v1 format.

 

[Violet_0]

Territorial Hellkite is a wonderful "I dealt some damage to each player. Now everyone is out to kill me while completely ignoring the actual board state"-card

 

[OnPoint]

Territorial Hellkite is a wonderful "I dealt some damage to each player. Now everyone is out to kill me while completely ignoring the actual board state"-card

Yup. Trash card

 

[Simply Sarah]

Territorial Hellkite is a wonderful "I dealt some damage to each player. Now everyone is out to kill me while completely ignoring the actual board state"-card

I mean, it's going to depend on your meta. It's basically a flying hasty Ruhan that is less useful 1v1. If that's enough to make everyone panic and target you then yeah, it's not ideal.

 

[Giant Panda]

Territorial Hellkite is a wonderful "I dealt some damage to each player. Now everyone is out to kill me while completely ignoring the actual board state"-card

I find that blaming the random effect gets players off the hook. It's when you willingly target people that they get mad.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Neat that they're turning Thunderbreak Regent into a cycle... besides the Regent cycle it's already a part of.

 

[charlequin]

The only way this makes sense is if Slivers acted they way they used to, and not the Slivers made for M14-15. Maybe they are finally going to admit that was a mistake?

You have that totally backwards. You can't build a whole sliver deck without including a bunch of the already existing old-style slivers, and those make the experience of two people playing with the same deck miserable for the exact reason he mentions. This is just another piece of evidence about why the old design was a problem.

Believe me, I'm right there with people on how bad the M14 creative treatment on the slivers was -- it totally misunderstood their appeal and tried to jam them into a box where they didn't belong. But people really angrily wanting their slivers to be objectively shittier purely over a fairly minor point of design/flavor interaction is so weird to me.

 

[FreedomFrisbee]

At this point slivers in EDH are only confusing because of the inconsistency in their templating. People considered the old templating to be their mechanical identity, so when you take that out they're effectively not slivers. For precon purposes, you have to mix the old and new slivers and that just makes for hilariously obtuse and hard to keep track of board states, but only because there is no longer one rule encompassing all slivers. If it was all hivemind slivers, or all predator slivers, then there wouldn't be any confusion. Having to go through each sliver on a case by case basis is what kills it, and that's a problem that should never have come about.

 

[red13th]

The only thing I hate about the new templating is that it makes the old classic slivers no longer reprintable. Outside of that I don't mind slivers only afecting your own dudes.
Of course there's the horrible art direction but I hope by now they realised what a gigantic failure that was.

 

[Justin]

For people who are new to the game and have never played with Slivers, is the change you guys are talking about the old slivers abilities applying to "all slivers" while the new design only applies to the ones you control? That's atleast what I can tell from looking on scryfall. I can see how the old design could get out of hand and hard to manage in a mirror.

 

[Yeef]

For people who are new to the game and have never played with Slivers, is the change you guys are talking about the old slivers abilities applying to "all slivers" while the new design only applies to the ones you control?

Yeah. It's not just a sliver thing though; for a long time all 'lord' (creatures that buff other creatures of a type) were symmetrical. Then they realized it just made for worse gameplay, so they started making them affect only your own stuff.

There was such a long gap between the M14 slivers and the last time they'd been printed (Future Sight) that people were surprised to find that the newer slivers didn't affect all creatures.

 

[Santiako]

Reprints:

Ramos:

I wonder how the manabase will support all these double and triple coloured costs.

EDIT: These will help:

 

[charlequin]

Of course there's the horrible art direction but I hope by now they realised what a gigantic failure that was.

Rosewater was pretty explicit that they got nothing but negative feedback about this. They already started walking it back just in M15.

 

[Santiako]

Rosewater was pretty explicit that they got nothing but negative feedback about this. They already started walking it back just in M15.

Yeah, I don't know what they were thinking by changing the silhouette of the most iconic original race they have.