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[ApharmdX]

Bernie -> Trump supporters should be whipped in the streets. But all Bernie supporters were complicit in carrying on for so long and whipping the rest of the Bernie or Busters up into a frenzy.

But now we can definitely point to Bernie as the reason Clinton lost.

This post is pure nonsense and you should feel bad.

"Bernie as the reason why Clinton lost"?

She lost most of the Rust Belt to Trump and she didn't campaign nearly enough there. Her jobs message was shit (despite solid policies to back it) and Trump, despite his 4th grader speaking style, slaughtered her on that. Clinton sabotaged herself with self-inflicted scandals that the GOP was only too eager to attack her with for months or years. And worst of all, Hillary had no personable quality or charm! Literal Donald Trump was more charismatic!

Sanders didn't make Hillary a garbage-tier candidate. She did that herself.


edit: and Bernie himself endorsed her despite a contentious primary. And he campaigned for her. So your post just falls apart.

 

[water_wendi]

On what issue is this turning them off? You're speaking in generalities here and dodging the issue. These people flipped. Why did they flip?

If the Democratic campaign knows that they are going to be losing Democratic voters but picking up 2-3 Republican voters in their place.. does it really matter what the issue is? Would it change anything if it was wages instead of TPP or healthcare instead of military intervention?

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4632402/every-blue-collar-democrat

 

[kirblar]

If the Democratic campaign knows that they are going to be losing Democratic voters but picking up 2-3 Republican voters in their place.. does it really matter what the issue is? Would it change anything if it was wages instead of TPP or healthcare instead of military intervention?

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4632402/every-blue-collar-democrat

Yes, it very much changes things if the issue is civil rights as opposed to trade policy!

To be clear, we're talking about only the defectors here.

 

[MartyStu]

Yeah, but for most, that is further indictment as to how Bernie voters cost Clinton the election. Somehow.

 

[sturgboski]

How about you start blaming the DNC for pushing a shitty candidate and conspiring against one who had the most enthusiasm I've ever seen for a politician in my lifetime?

Why would the DNC advocate for Trump? Oh...

Ok look fuck ups all around but the left is awful at understanding we live in a two party system with one party actively hating everything the left wants and working to destroy it and the other at worst not hating all of that and at best is working toward those ideals. The left fails to see the big picture. I mean fine hate Hillary all you want but she is not Trump and we wouldn't be having fatal panic attacks everyday since election day. At worst nothing would change from the Obama 8 years which is still better than where things were before Obama and at best maybe she would push harder left and adopt some of the policies that a Sanders or Warren (or even herself) advocates. Like I just don't get it.

 

[Timedog]

People like to vote for vague ideas they have based on their gut feelings.

 

[water_wendi]

Yes, it very much changes things if the issue is civil rights as opposed to trade policy!

To be clear, we're talking about only the defectors here.

i dont care about the "defectors." The fact that the Democratic campaign ran a strategy that they knew and counted on alienating their base to pursue moderate Republicans should be instant fire yet they are still in decision making positions.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4632402/every-blue-collar-democrat

 

[Snkfanatic]

Wonder how many voted 3rd party or wrote someone in like a few Bernie fans I know.

 

[Media]

I firmly believe the Russian disinformation machine targeted Bernie fans as much as republicans. So much bullshit about Clinton was shared by some of.my Bernie or bust friends, and some of them still believe that Clinton personally killed a bunch of people, while hating Trump, ugh.

I liked Bernie. I loved him in fact, and voted for him in the primary. But I always knew he wasn't going to get the nom and happily pulled the lever for Clinton when the time came cause it was like choosing between Obama lite and Hitler. There was no choice.

 

[Ziltoidia 9]

Some people will say or do anything to absolve others of their support for white supremacy, I guess.

I can't tell if you are agreeing with me, but looking back, I remember a lot of people on TV talking about how Trump "wasn't going to be that bad" or "just trying to be elected." Maybe it wasn't as prevalent as I remember?

Though ultimately I could see them switching to Trump because of the trade issue. This article is about rust belt states and Sanders and Trump went after Hillary on NAFTA.

 

[jetjevons]

That'll show Hilary, right Bernie or Busters?

 

[pigeon]

Holy shit, some people are talking as if the majority of Bernie supporters were somehow satan... 12% is a very small portion.

I assume the criticism is mostly directed towards those 12%.

I also assumed that most Bernie->Clinton supporters would agree with that criticism, since those people voted for a white supremacist!

Let's see how the thread goes.

 

[kirblar]

i dont care about the "defectors." The fact that the Democratic campaign ran a strategy that they knew and counted on alienating their base to pursue moderate Republicans should be instant fire yet they are still in decision making positions.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4632402/every-blue-collar-democrat

The Dems alienated this portion of their base under LBJ by pursuing support of civil rights and have been paying the price in every subsequent election since. https://agenda-blog.com/2017/07/03/...beralism-and-the-white-working-class/#more-42

"Reagan Democrats". "Clinton->McCain" voters. "Sanders->Trump" voters. It's all the same pattern. Go back to 1994 and you'll have articles about the "Revenge of the WWC".

 

[Trojita]

12% is extremely low based on even reasonable speculation.

 

[VendettaRed07]

That is a low percent and Bernie did a good job getting his voters to swing to her especially considering how different of a campaign he ran.

But people will look for reasons to grind that axe I guess

 

[MIMIC]

That's incredibly small. I'm glad it's not any bigger (since a Bernie voter going for Trump doesn't even make sense)

 

[inner-G]

People really wanted an outsider.

I don't like Trump but I'm surprised it was only 1 in 10.

 

[Lightning_Roller]

Really?? Stop the fucking presses....

 

[minor effort]

This post is pure nonsense and you should feel bad.

"Bernie as the reason why Clinton lost"?

She lost most of the Rust Belt to Trump and she didn't campaign nearly enough there. Her jobs message was shit (despite solid policies to back it) and Trump, despite his 4th grader speaking style, slaughtered her on that. Clinton sabotaged herself with self-inflicted scandals that the GOP was only too eager to attack her with for months or years. And worst of all, Hillary had no personable quality or charm! Literal Donald Trump was more charismatic!

Sanders didn't make Hillary a garbage-tier candidate. She did that herself.


edit: and Bernie himself endorsed her despite a contentious primary. And he campaigned for her. So your post just falls apart.

By that logic, if Bernie should shoulder the blame for not corralling 10% of his primary voters from voting Republican in the general, shouldn't Clinton be made to answer for not preventing 28% of primary voters from voting Republican in 2008?

Yeah, Democrats won regardless that year so nobody really cared, but it's still ridiculous to try to blame this on Sanders. Not every voter votes on straightforward policy grounds.

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

What kind of mental gymnastics do you need to do to justify that switch?

Anti-Hillary/Anti-Establishment so when you think about it, Bernie and Trump are basically the same person.

 

[CambriaRising]

Probably already said, but 9/10 voted against him so..

 

[Sunster]

people who didn't know the issues or candidates and just liked the idea of big change.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

For those interested, the data-set is open source. You might find it amusing/depressing to know that 4% of Clinton primary voters decided to vote for Trump in the end.

 

[Nafai1123]

Fucking idiots. Curious how many didn't vote at all or voted 3rd party.

 

[pigeon]

Bernie -> Trump supporters should be whipped in the streets. But all Bernie supporters were complicit in carrying on for so long and whipping the rest of the Bernie or Busters up into a frenzy.

But now we can definitely point to Bernie as the reason Clinton lost.

No, cmon. This is not a reasonable conclusion.

 

[GrapeApes]

Surprised the number is not higher. I've seen Bernie people turn into alt right shitlords. Susceptible young white males who believe that identity politics is a scourge on the world.

 

[Foffy]

People like to vote for vague ideas they have based on their gut feelings.

To entertain how one can be a Sanders>Trump supporter, I can imagine they like the idea of anti-establishment.

Sanders called out aspects of the social order.

Trump claimed to be outside of the social order, even though by all accounts, he was a living example of the establishment and its failures.

People fell for Trumps empty ass words because of whatever degree of charisma he had. I think the following remark from Sam Harris really encapsulates the Trump problem.

"Trump strikes me as a distillation of everything that is wrong with the American character. This could be in large measure a caricature, but he has brought the caricature to life. If you take our materialism, and our ignorance about the rest of the world, and our satisfaction in our ignorance, our overconfidence, our pretension to greatness even when we're actually being merely petty, our vanity, our sexism, boorishness, narcissism. A kind of childishness that doesn't have the virtues of childhood; a kind of malignant childhood that just is all boastfulness and me, me, me, me, me, without any of the curiosity or sympathy that you meet in actual children....He is the living embodiment of a kind of American grotesque. And again, I am a little self conscious about this calumny against America or the ugly American but it's almost like he is a golem that has been conjured by the worst things that have ever been said about us as a country. It's like if he can't grope it or put gold letters on it, it doesn't exist."

Somehow people have fallen for this vile character and see it as an ideal, as a "self-made" person, a person who has seen the ills of the society he triumphed from when instead all Trump amounts to is an amalgamation of every facet, every aspect, and every feature terrible about American society and its empty ass ideals.

I still can't get my head around people who made a switch from "the elite have fucked you" to the elite fucker himself.

 

[Meier]

Meh, the most important point is buried further down the page:

I think the main issue is that Donald Trump was unlike any other candidate before. Just a truly and utterly despicable human in every regard. One could understand why a more right-leaning Dem could turn to McCain but Trump's policies and actions were in so many ways diametrically opposed to a Democrat voter that it seems unfathomable.

 

[ZealousD]

But now we can definitely point to Bernie as the reason Clinton lost.

No we can't. Screw off.

Bernie was extremely cordial to Clinton during the primary. Nothing he could have done would have changed the outcome.

 

[Zackat]

I am shocked.

Shocked.

 

[MartyStu]

I think the main issue is that Donald Trump was unlucky any other candidate before. Just a truly and utterly despicable human in every regard. One could understand why a more right-leaning Dem could turn to McCain but Trump's policies and actions were in so many ways diametrically opposed to a Democrat voter that it seems unfathomable.

It is quite easy to understand:

Most people--all over the political spectrum--are not that well informed and when they are, they only care about certain things and are willing to look away at other things that do not affect them.

Keeping that in mind, it is so easy to see why people would go Sanders ->Trump.

Plus. Republican media have been demonizing Hillary for 30 years.

 

[Lunar15]

It's like cutting your entire head off to save face.

 

[Tinfoilhatsron]

Why not also add this

You know why. Can't push an agenda and drama that way.

That cant be right. Going by GAF that should be around 80-90%. Probably more.

Well according to this:

Bernie -> Trump supporters should be whipped in the streets. But all Bernie supporters were complicit in carrying on for so long and whipping the rest of the Bernie or Busters up into a frenzy.

But now we can definitely point to Bernie as the reason Clinton lost.

Turns out 100% of us are at fault.

Whoops looks like I got Trump elected.

Should've just stayed home.

 

[KingV]

I firmly believe the Russian disinformation machine targeted Bernie fans as much as republicans. So much bullshit about Clinton was shared by some of.my Bernie or bust friends, and some of them still believe that Clinton personally killed a bunch of people, while hating Trump, ugh.

I liked Bernie. I loved him in fact, and voted for him in the primary. But I always knew he wasn't going to get the nom and happily pulled the lever for Clinton when the time came cause it was like choosing between Obama lite and Hitler. There was no choice.

I think the Russian disinformation machine actually targeted everyone.

"Bernie Bros" and the animosity between Hillary and Bernie Supporters were ubiquitous online but I never actually met any in person, or saw the animosity in person. It was more of a good-natured rivalry.

I suspect that some of the loudest voices using the most loaded language to call Bernie and his supporters racist, as well as many of those claiming to be Bernie supporters and saying very racially charged things with animosity (realizing that there are also many people that say things out of ignorance, and they can't always be separated) were also really Russian trolls.

In retrospect there was a lot of weird shit last election cycle that seems partially manufactured, or at least artificially encourages with 20/20 hindsight. If Putins goal was to delegitimize Hillary, what better way to do it than to turn her supporters and supporters of her primary opponent against each other?

 

[NoName999]

I can't tell if you are agreeing with me, but looking back, I remember a lot of people on TV talking about how Trump "wasn't going to be that bad" or "just trying to be elected." Maybe it wasn't as prevalent as I remember?

Though ultimately I could see them switching to Trump because of the trade issue. This article is about rust belt states and Sanders and Trump went after Hillary on NAFTA.

Voters: Hillary is an opportunistic politician who'll say anything just to get votes

Also voters: Trump isn't going to do those crazy things. He's just saying that to get votes. So I'll vote for him

God, this is frustrating.

 

[zelas]

Sanders fell on his face completely when it came to race. I'm not surprised he appealed to so many who didn't care enough about, or outright denied, the issues minorities are facing.

 

[BoogieWoogie]

Thanks Bernie Bros! Is this the change you wanted?

 

[Trojita]

Bernie -> Trump supporters should be whipped in the streets. But all Bernie supporters were complicit in carrying on for so long and whipping the rest of the Bernie or Busters up into a frenzy.

But now we can definitely point to Bernie as the reason Clinton lost.

Is this a joke post?

 

[Guevara]

12% directly voted for Trump

but how many supported Trump by note voting or voting 3rd party or writing in Bernie

 

[Eusis]

28% of Clinton voters went McCain in 2008

In a saner world this would have led to a Trump slaughter. Fuuuck. Instead a mere 12% of Bernie voters went the other way.

 

[jmizzal]

Hey now, don't interupt this scheduled shit-on-sanders-supporters thread.

McCain was a legit president candidate unlike Trump

 

[SolidSnakex]

Sanders fell on his face completely when it came to race. I'm not surprised he appealed to so many who didn't care enough about, or outright denied, the issues minorities are facing.

Yet despite his "falling on his face"

 

[dynamitejim]

Protip: Running an establishment candidate in a change season was dumb. Gonna be a long time until 2020 *sigh*

I wonder how many sanders supporters ran 3rd party...

How is it a "change" season if the Establishment candidate got got more Popular votes in both the Primary and General?

 

[Sendero]

My take? Back at the time, every poll, analyst and major political figure in USA were thoroughly sure that Clinton would win.. effortlessly. GAF "experts" were full on that train.


So, for people that were not fan of Hillary as politician, or where not fan on how the Primaries were handled by the Democrat Committee, or simply didn't want to start another "dynasty" (Clinton), it likely felt *safe* to vote for the opposite candidate as a sort of protest/rejection to the candidate herself (rather than the ideals).

Unfortunately, just like most of GAF and USA analysts, they didn't see the power behind Trump stardomship and the potential of "for the lulz", in an era where people crave for endless entertainment.

The closeness of the election was correctly called in other countries, and by a few us (by almost a year) though. Anyway, I assume that played a major part.

 

[Bebpo]

Haven't gone through the whole thread or the original article (tsk tsk, yeah I know) but why didn't the survey also measure the number of Bernie primary voters that didn't vote at all in the general?

Because I'd imagine that + those who voted Trump, 3rd party, a write in candidate were probably a big enough chunk to swing the election.

At the end of the day I don't blame Bernie, dude was a good candidate. But this shit was so visible throughout the entire primary when there was this giant online split between Bernie and Clinton supporters basically making war with each other and no matter who won the primary, there'd be such a rift in the democratic party it could swing the election if it ended up being close. There were plenty of people calling out for unison within the democratic party, but there were also a lot of vocal purity test fights and spite contests that "I'll never vote for your candidate because they are no better than the other side!!" going on during the primary.

People say competition is good to get a better candidate for the general, but it's really not because once you are so mentally entranced against the other primary runner(s), there is a huge mental block you have to overcome to go out and vote for them in the general and a lot of people won't do it.

If Democrats didn't fight among themselves, they'd easily win all these elections. But democrats represent like a half-dozen or dozen different sub-groups who all want different things and if they don't get them they're not going to "fall in line" and vote like republicans do. Not sure how this will ever change. But it'd be nice if the 2020 primary isn't a fucking bloodbath on the democrat side. We really need a single strong candidate that everyone can get behind and not 2 or more who split the party.

 

[ApharmdX]

Then you should probably supply more stats than just the two to establish that as fact.

Sure. I mean, they are right in the article, but OP omitted them:

For example, Schaffner tells NPR that around 12 percent of Republican primary voters (including 34 percent of Ohio Gov. John Kasich voters and 11 percent of Florida Sen. Marco Rubio voters) ended up voting for Clinton. And according to one 2008 study, around 25 percent of Clinton primary voters in that election ended up voting for Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., in the general. (In addition, the data showed 13 percent of McCain primary voters ended up voting for Obama, and 9 percent of Obama voters ended up voting for McCain — perhaps signaling something that swayed voters between primaries and the general election, or some amount of error in the data, or both.)

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

Some weird reactions. One in ten isn't much. Do we know many Obama voters went with Trump?

 

[Slime]

Hope you're satisfied with your fascist billionaire oligarch, hypocrites.

 

[Nafai1123]

People looking for any SINGLE reason why Hillary lost need to wake the fuck up. This isn't a video game where a character dying can be traced back to missing a QTE prompt. Numerous factors impacted her loss, including:

Her campaign
Her likeability
Comey letter
Podesta emails
Russian interference
Bernie-or-busters
Jill Steiners
Gary Aleppos
Racism
Sexism

We just have to accept this reality. She lost, it's over...move the fuck on. This idea that one group, or one person, or one group of people, should hold all the blame is just stupid tribalism and is not doing us any favors.

 

[pigeon]

I still can't get my head around people who made a switch from "the elite have fucked you" to the elite fucker himself.

It's not that complicated. These people believe the elite fucked them by giving their deserved wealth to people of color. They want an elite who will fuck over people of color and give the proceeds to poor white people.

Here is a thread worth reading to understand the thought process:

http://www.elleuk.com/life-and-cult...lack-people-get-to-go-go-to-college-for-free/