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[OpinionatedCyborg]

I'm pretty into fitness and I have no idea (or can't sympathize with) why people would want to put these drugs in their body knowing the risks. I just really despise the use of steroids and even most supplements for athletic uses. Why cheat your way to "fake" gains?

It doesn't feel like cheating when you are working your ass off. In fact, they let you work harder (faster recovery so you can increase the intensity, volume, and frequency of your workouts). Making gains is addictive, so I totally get the appeal of steroids.

Like you, I don't like their use in competitive events, particularly combat sports. It's a given that nearly all top athletes will use them, and many would abuse them if given the opportunity, which is why it's important to ban their use and do regular drug tests. Everybody will still cheat, but it's the difference between everyone driving 10 - 15 mph over the speed limit and a couple getting pulled over for speeding every so often vs some people going 150mph over the speed limit and dying in a ball of fire.

Because they are often used in sports as medicine. The issue is one of perception. Nobody balks when a guy takes a cortizone shot in order to not miss the big game, in fact they are often praised as tough and heroic, yet all that is is a drug that helps someone perform. A "performance enhancing drug" if you will. Yet those are probably worse for you than a lot of stuff that is demonized and banned. They are used in sports all the time, tons of medical enhancements are accepted in sports. It's a lot greyer than people like you want to believe.

The NFL is full of bullshit like this. I suppose the other major sports leagues are pretty bad for it too but the NFL is especially repugnant given how hard the sport is on the athletes' bodies and how poorly they are compensated (relative to the revenue they generate).

 

[Zee-Row]

Reminds me of that popular guy from 4chan that died. Why do people think having large arms and a body are everything? Cardio has to be a must to support a huge body like that.

 

[Raguel]

Ok, thanks for the clarification.

hah no problem. They're both steroid hormones with literally two hydrogen atoms separating their chemical formula.

Like I said, I don't mind steroid use but only if its used correctly and under supervision. They are very beneficial as medicine. There are variations of steroids but the most commonly abused and the ones we commonly refer to steroids are known as anabolic steroids (anabolic androgenic steroids, which are the synthetic versions of a naturally occurring steroid hormone). Abuse of these steroids are rampant and has been proven to be dangerous. I don't mind people using anabolics but just do it properly, smartly and safely. But I also don't encourage its usage solely for body building, strength training, and sports just because so many people are uneducated about it.

 

[Madness]

Because they are often used in sports as medicine. The issue is one of perception. Nobody balks when a guy takes a cortizone shot in order to not miss the big game, in fact they are often praised as tough and heroic, yet all that is is a drug that helps someone perform. A "performance enhancing drug" if you will. Yet those are probably worse for you than a lot of stuff that is demonized and banned. They are used in sports all the time, tons of medical enhancements are accepted in sports. It's a lot greyer than people like you want to believe.

No kidding. Apparently tylenol arthritis medicine and vicodin pills, cortizone injections, stem cell therapy to help ligaments, is okay. But don't you dare take clenbuterol to help shred fat and increase cardiovascular performance, how dare you take Testerone enanthate to recover faster, go harder, stronger, faster.

The reality is, a lot of people are using steroids and PED's. Lance Armstrong lied through his teeth denying it until he was caught. Olympians, athletes etc. There is a reason you are seeing a ton of young prospects from Cuba and the Dominican straight dominate baseball until they enter the majors. I can see the negative point where people who cannot afford PED's are at a diasadvantage or the health issues, but more people destroy their liver or die from complications using Tylenol than those taking Testosrerone.

When I hit 40+, I am definitely going to do Test injections or TRT to keep my test high. So that I can counteract aging, keep my muscle mass, generally live better and longer. Don't conflate obsessive use to the point of death with recreational or performance based reasons. I have a friend who was in a car accident pissing in a bag and hospitalized for like 8 months. He used a cycle of test and deca to gain a ton of muscle mass, recover during physio, end up in better physical shape than before his accident.

 

[Neith]

Dude, that bicep is just fucking insane lol. I just don't get why people want to go that far. RIP.

 

[Mattlikewhoa]

Didn't he turn out to be pretty racist?

From what I understand...

...YES!

 

[Slackbladder]

I always wonder how bad body dysmorphia is with body builders. There's a connection with obsessive-compulsive behaviour in both so there's a genuine crossover. When I look at the insane lengths some got to with vast amount of drug use and strange, unhealthy diets it makes me wonder about someone's mental health. I'm sure it isn't that common. But I would be very surprised if it was unheard of.
For some it's obviously a serious problem.

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

Dude, that bicep is just fucking insane lol. I just don't get why people want to go that far. RIP.

Alot of that isnt even muscle, its site enhancement oil. That's how bad bodybuilding has gotten, they dont even care if its muscle, or oil, or implants, they just want to look big.

 

[OpinionatedCyborg]

I always wonder how bad body dysmorphia is with body builders. There's a connection with obsessive-compulsive behaviour in both so there's a genuine crossover. When I look at the insane lengths some got to with vast amount of drug use and strange, unhealthy diets it makes me wonder about someone's mental health. I'm sure it isn't that common. But I would be very surprised if it was unheard of.
For some it's obviously a serious problem.

But speaking to the February issue of Cigar Aficionado magazine, he admits he has insecurities, he said: “When I look in the mirror, I throw up.”

He revealed he wasn’t happy with how he looked even at the height of his fame for being seven-time winner of bodybuilding title Mr. Olympia, he said: “I was already so critical of myself, even when I was in top physical shape.

“I’d look in the mirror after I won one Mr. Olympia after another and think, ‘How did this pile of s*** win?’ I never saw perfection. There was always something lack¬ing.”

Although the Predator actor isn't happy with his looks, he has admitted he doesn't feel like he will soon be turning 70 because he has maintained the same lifestyle he enjoyed two decades ago.

He explained: "I don't feel my age. I do everything exactly the same as I did 20 years ago."

https://www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowb...-he-opens-up-about-being-insecure-over-looks/

 

[blackflag]

Modern bb is the problem, not the roids.

Arnold and his generation took steroids too, and while a few of them may have had issues, many of them lived long lives (or are still alive) and died of common things that people NOT on PEDs die of.

The difference is the size of the stack that modern BBs take, and insulin. Today, people (like the late Rich Piana) take a fucking SHITTON of 'roids. Combined with crazy high dosages of HGH and Insulin, and small wonder that guys today develop issues early on.

Additionally, the steroids you can get today, due to the wonders of the Internet, are both easily accessible and, a lot of times, not of pharmacutical grade quality. It's some shit that they're mixing in a basement somewhere and selling for cheap online. God knows what you're pumping into your system. Arnold's generation was getting the real deal, and didn't take nearly as much of it. That's why they looked different. They were very very muscled, yes. But also athletic looking. Almost sleek. Nowadays? Muscle guts and bloated, synthol injected bodies are the norm.

Arnold himself has commented on how downhill bodybuilding as a whole has gone.

Pretty much agree with everything said here. Plus just so it's clear. Piana was a lot smaller when he was actually competing in bodybuilding. Competitors don't even do what he did. He's a total idiot that basically wanted to see how far he could push it.

 

[HazySaiyan]

Just one look at him and you could see this coming a mile off.

 

[Hjod]

hah no problem. They're both steroid hormones with literally two hydrogen atoms separating their chemical formula.

Like I said, I don't mind steroid use but only if its used correctly and under supervision. They are very beneficial as medicine. There are variations of steroids but the most commonly abused and the ones we commonly refer to steroids are known as anabolic steroids (anabolic androgenic steroids, which are the synthetic versions of a naturally occurring steroid hormone). Abuse of these steroids are rampant and has been proven to be dangerous. I don't mind people using anabolics but just do it properly, smartly and safely. But I also don't encourage its usage solely for body building, strength training, and sports just because so many people are uneducated about it.

Yeah, the naming of the stuff is really close in Swedish and they mean the opposite in English haha.

I've used steroids myself, nothing insane, 250mg every other week and I felt awesome, never felt better in my life. But you have to cycle of or things go to shit.

I won't go deeper into this cause I'm drunk. But I'll be back tomorrow.

 

[crazepharmacist]

Of course he didn't look sleek in the off-season. But when he was contest ready, he managed to make his massive, mountain of muscle body look aesthetic - sleek if you will. That was precisely why that age of bodybuilding is still known as the Golden Age of bodybuilding. Because people didn't try to be the biggest there is, they had to combine that with aesthetic proportions, leading you to a result like this:

Diuretics. They had diuretics back then. Today modern bodybuilders do the same thing but they're also on massive growth and insulin which cause that bloated abdomen look due to organ growth.

 

[Raguel]

Yeah, the naming of the stuff is really close in Swedish and they mean the opposite in English haha.

I've used steroids myself, nothing insane, 250mg every other week and I felt awesome, never felt better in my life. But you have to cycle of or things go to shit.

I won't go deeper into this cause I'm drunk. But I'll be back tomorrow.

Yep. I've had friends who use it and they turned out well. But I also know a guy who can't produce anymore test naturally cause of roid dependency. While our testosterone decreases naturally as we get older, this guy straight up can't produce anymore. He's in his mid thirties. He most definitely wasn't using it properly.

while I do think it's a pity roids get a bad rep, I strongly encourage smart usage of it as it can fuck you up real quick. Just like any other drug. So I don't condone anyone going crazy with it.

 

[nitronite]

Diuretics. They had diuretics back then. Today modern bodybuilders do the same thing but they're also on massive growth and insulin which cause that bloated abdomen look due to organ growth.

Dorian Yates attributes his larger gut in the late 90s to insulin usage, claiming that he was on HGH since the early 90s, unlike insulin. During his interview with Joe Rogan, he also mentioned that he had some tests done on his abdomen after he retired, and they found that his organs were the same size as expected. I hope for all of the current 'pregnant' bodybuilders that that's true.

 

[Polygonal_Sprite]

Just got into his videos in the past year with the "bigger by the day" video series.

He seemed like such a nice guy with an extremely positive outlook on life. I feel gutted.

RIP Rich. I just had a full ice cream in your honour.

 

[Painguy]

RIP. This guy lived like right next to me. Met him one time at Ralphs with his girlfriend. He was friendly and polite. (He had a lot of meat and icecream lol) Its a shame he went too far. Lots of dudes using cocaine as preworkout these days.

Rep in peace homie.

 

[crazepharmacist]

There's a video on his youtube channel from I think his girlfriend explaining her last moments with Rich. There's a video of him from a while back snorting pre-workout and that's what she says was the white powdery substance on his table. I believe that. Some pre-workout supplements are potent as fuck. Loaded with caffeine and other grey area analog stimulants. Probably pushed his heart over the edge.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1kd0IZjEFw

really emotional video. Was watching some of his videos before he passed. Seems like a really nice guy, honest guy.

 

[LookAtMeGo]

Snorting pre workout? Damn thats hardcore.

 

[OpinionatedCyborg]

I haven't watched the video, but if he's snorting something prior to a lift it's probably smelling salts.

 

[Summer Haze]

There's a video on his youtube channel from I think his girlfriend explaining her last moments with Rich. There's a video of him from a while back snorting pre-workout and that's what she says was the white powdery substance on his table. I believe that. Some pre-workout supplements are potent as fuck. Loaded with caffeine and other grey area analog stimulants. Probably pushed his heart over the edge.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1kd0IZjEFw

really emotional video. Was watching some of his videos before he passed. Seems like a really nice guy, honest guy.

Yep. Bought some a while back and the skin on my legs, hands and face was tingling and my heart was racing so fast. I underestimated it. That was from the recommended dose too.

 

[Frustrated_me]

I hate to sound ignorant here, and RIP to the dude, but how can anyone think this looks good? Why even go there? The steroids are popping out of his body, it's awful.

 

[CornBurrito]

I hate to sound ignorant here, and RIP to the dude, but how can anyone think this looks good? Why even go there? The steroids are popping out of his body, it's awful.

Body dismoprhia.

 

[Septimius]

Fixed.

Seriously?

 

[Syder]

There's a video of him from a while back snorting pre-workout and that's what she says was the white powdery substance on his table.

 

[Yohane]

Insanity

 

[.....]

.

 

[Transistor]

Holy shit, there are people advocating steroid use in here? Dafuq?

 

[Alligatorjandro]

What pre-workout can do that to you? Couldn't have been anything you can get from gnc etc.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Holy shit, there are people advocating steroid use in here? Dafuq?

Because steroids are useful. I don't see anyone here advocating for abuse, which is dangerous, as it is with nearly any drug, especially the ones that haven't been painted like a dirty word by ignorant sports fans.

 

[entremet]

Holy shit, there are people advocating steroid use in here? Dafuq?

It's incredibly common. Go to any gym. Morally, I have no problem with them. I wish there were more education and better sourcing, not this underground lab nonsense of today. Arnold and Co. took pharma grade stuff. They weren't even illegal back then!

I don't take any because I rather increase test level naturally. Plus they're pricey. If you want to do them legally, get on TRT. But you need a good doctor and low test. Most regular doctors can be very against TRT.

 

[DUFFMCWALIN]

Holy shit, there are people advocating steroid use in here? Dafuq?

This is incredibly more complex than your one sentence post. Ninja posted a good reply but I will say steriods given to people for medical issues can be very beneficial to the point of having saved lives.

 

[Transistor]

This is incredibly more complex than your one sentence post. Ninja posted a good reply but I will say steriods given to people for medical issues can be very beneficial to the point of having saved lives.

Medical issues are a far cry from recreational use. I have no problem of their use as prescribed by a medical professional

 

[DUFFMCWALIN]

Medical issues are a far cry from recreational use

All you said is steriod use in your post. Also I'm not a big fan of telling people what they should and shouldn't put in their body as long as they aren't affecting others (dui, etc).

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Medical issues are a far cry from recreational use. I have no problem of their use as prescribed by a medical professional

Who is using them recreationally? The medical advantages is the only reason people use steroids. You think people are huffing them to get high? If someone wants to use them under proper medical supervision and monitoring in order to improve their personal quality of life, or help them feel better during/after workouts, what's is wrong with it?

 

[.....]

.

 

[g11]

Holy shit, there are people advocating steroid use in here? Dafuq?

Yeah, it's almost like they have a positive health benefit if you don't abuse the shit out of them.

 

[Syder]

Yeah, it's almost like they have a positive health benefit if you don't abuse the shit out of them.

This is pretty disingenuous.

Also, it's far from impossible to achieve a desirable physique without steroids.

 

[CornBurrito]

Because steroids are useful. I don't see anyone here advocating for abuse, which is dangerous, as it is with nearly any drug, especially the ones that haven't been painted like a dirty word by ignorant sports fans.

At this point stop pretending your lifting is for your health. lol.

You don't need steroids to be healthy.

 

[TheVampire]

So how strong is that ?

Could be push over a car?

 

[Ninja Scooter]

At this point stop pretending your lifting is for your health. lol.

You don't need steroids to be healthy.

You don't. But you can use them to be healthy. Again, I don't see people advocating for abuse. I don't think people should be doing what Rich Piana did.

 

[CornBurrito]

Most regular doctors can be very against TRT.

Damn those pesky doctors! Next they'll be trying to inject us with autism causing vaccines.

 

[Septimius]

This is incredibly more complex than your one sentence post. Ninja posted a good reply but I will say steriods given to people for medical issues can be very beneficial to the point of having saved lives.

"Steroids" in this contexts means anabolic steroids. "Steroids" generally are a structure, and many are naturally occurring hormones in our body. Those steroids can have medical uses to reduce inflammation, or to fight disease. They can help balance bodies that have a dysfunction in some way. It is in no way comparable to discuss cortisol and anabolic steroids as the same thing.

You don't. But you can use them to be healthy. Again, I don't see people advocating for abuse. I don't think people should be doing what Rich Piana did.

I would rate any use of anabolic steroids when your testosterone levels are normal as abuse, since it is not something that's required, but usage gives a mere boost. The same could be said of ephedrine, Adderall, etc etc. It is the intake of something that's superfluous and centrally stimulating in the body. In this case you're injecting basically testosterone. It is not a part of a metabolic process (which means protein powder and creatine don't fall under this) and is something that's synthetically distilled to cheat natural processes and have boosted gains. Any use of AAS outside of medical use to correct testosterone is abuse.

Just because you can do it "without damage if done right" does not mean it should be done, and I'm upset at the amount of people that seem to think anything not harmful should be legal, and are unable to discern that slippery slope from the otherwise grey moral area. It is unethical at any rate.

 

[SapientWolf]

Arnold and company ate roids like candy. The big difference now is GH and insulin abuse. Body building's downfall was when mass became more important than aesthetics.

 

[CornBurrito]

You don't. But you can use them to be healthy. Again, I don't see people advocating for abuse. I don't think people should be doing what Rich Piana did.

Well we have different ideas as to what is wrong.

I consider adderall use at college to be wrong, for students that do not actually suffer from ADD/ADHD (or similar disorders).

I guess that the bodybuilding community practically requires you to use steroids them to feel included? SapientWolf's post seems to confirm.

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

So how strong is that ?

Could be push over a car?

Hes injected his muscles with oil so they look bigger, power lifters like eddie hall are stronger.

 

[Septimius]

abuse, which is dangerous, as it is with nearly any drug, especially the ones that haven't been painted like a dirty word by ignorant sports fans.

This is a logical fallacy. Any misconception related to steroids is not why steroids aren't allowed.

It's incredibly common. Go to any gym.

Common occurrence does not equate something morally or ethically defensible.

If someone wants to use them under proper medical supervision and monitoring in order to improve their personal quality of life, or help them feel better during/after workouts, what's is wrong with it?

The thing about hormones is that the hormonal systems are delicately balanced in our bodies. Some hormones counteract other hormones. You may know that testosterone suppresses estrogen. Did you know that lower estrogen increases the risk of prostate cancer? Increasing one hormone changes many others. The interactions are complex, and it is hard to say what happens when you unnaturally increase your testosterone above natural levels. If your idea of "there's nothing wrong with it" is something helping someone else feel better, then you're advocating for an unhealthy diet. People eat sugar because it makes you feel better. Feeling better during or after a workout isn't a reason to mess with hormones.

Steriod use is becoming more and more common.

Again, something being common doesn't mean it's OK.

Using them correctly (correct pharma grade dosages , cycling on and off ) can help improve athletic performance with minimal side effects. I have no problem with people who dont abuse them. But a lot of people are ignorant on the subject

[citation needed]
Any use above restoring testosterone to normal levels is abuse. "Correct use" is a misnomer, and an ingenious one at that. "Misusing while minimizing the adverse short term effects" might be better, because the long term effects are way harder to map out. The argument that it increases athletic ability is nothing redeeming, either. The biggest issue is the slippery slope that is created by it. If it was allowed in competitive sports, the science would be about how far you could push the abuse without straight up dying. Athletes wishing to be the best would stop at nothing, so it would be guaranteed to cause preventable deaths, just like the one in the article.

People who think of them as 'cheats' and state that all they lead to are 'fake gains' are a major example. You still have to work your ass off in the gym and eat right to see results. Does it make the process easier? Sure. Does it boost your natutal lean mass limit? Definitely. But it doesnt mean you can slack off and eat like shit and get amazing results. You keep most of the strength and mass you gain after you cycle off your stack if done right. People know the risks of abusing gear, Pianas/McCarvers recent passing will likely help spread awareness.

You can't say that some people think of it as "no work gains" has anything to do with why it's not ethically accepted to use anabolic steroids to boost your gains. While that misconception exists, it is irrelevant in the discussion of why hormones aren't OK to use.

Yeah, it's almost like they have a positive health benefit if you don't abuse the shit out of them.

[citation needed]
There aren't any health benefits to having bigger gains than normal. The increased mass they allow for aren't a source of health. They're a source of bigger muscles. That doesn't mean better health. There is no need for people who work out to inject themselves with more testosterone than they need to become healthier.

You don't. But you can use them to be healthy.

That use is not to increase gains.

 

[crimzonflame]

If I had the money, I would totally take HGH.

 

[Estellex]

RIP man.

If he did die I wonder if he went out painlessly. Drug overdose tend to be a quick death from what I have read.

 

[ZOONAMI]

Does taking bodybuilding to this extreme qualify as a body image issue similar to anorexia? Any science on this?

I don't understand why anyone would even want to be that huge.