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Destiny 2 |OT2| Leviathan Wakes (Spoiler Tag ALL Raid Discussion)

Yeah. Creatively the zone and themes are on point. Otherwise it is kind of a disaster and way below the bar set by any of the first game's raids.
I already wasn't really that bothered to jump right in and do it week 1 and the comments in this thread are making that an even easier decision.
 
Did people have an issue with
stealth sections
in VoG? I wasn't hugely active during the launch of VoG but everyone I know loved the raid.

EDIT: Personally I really enjoy jumping puzzles.

Some did, yes. It was difficult for everyone initially but reactions to it were generally negative until everyone figured out the trick to it.
 

Kadey

Mrs. Harvey
I think the biggest problem are drops. Various teams are reporting very low drop percentages. You put all that effort into the raid only to be lucky to even get one drop. Like for the people who are doing the raid hoping to get higher light level could be disappointed.
Challenge mode and hard mode will come out eventually and Bungie could always patch things. Also is the first week of it and second week of the game so opinions could change over time.

I like a challenge. The difficulty isn't really the issue. The issue is boredom. In a franchise with cosmic beings and Michael Bay explosions you want top tier action.
 
Did people have an issue with
stealth sections
in VoG? I wasn't hugely active during the launch of VoG but everyone I know loved the raid.

EDIT: Personally I really enjoy jumping puzzles.
There's quite a large difference between these
two stealth sections.
 

lt519

Member
Yeah. Creatively the zone and themes are on point. Otherwise it is kind of a disaster and way below the bar set by any of the first game's raids.

Was talking with my buddy tonight while playing Crucible. It is really obvious that they split off development of D1 expansions and D2. Like how do you put in Private Matches in D1 and not have them in D2? There just seems to be zero carry over of the finishing touches found in D1 in D2. It's conceivable they started working this raid immediately after TTK and whatever they learned/did in WotM had no bearing on this raid.

I think the biggest problem are drops. Various teams are reporting very low drop percentages. You put all that effort into the raid only to be lucky to even get one drop. Like for the people who are doing the raid hoping to get higher light level could be disappointed.

Forever 29.

My group is excited, and we'll undoubtedly have fun, but I've had my reservations about the longevity of D2. The raid having tedious portions is not going to entice me to play it every week on multiple characters liked I did in D1.
 

ZeoVGM

Banned
Another thing that needs to be added very soon: the ability to see that your gear has a +5 mod on it without inspecting each individual piece.

This mod system, along with the fact that you can only infuse into like-weapon types, makes infusion pretty frustrating at times in Destiny 2.
 

Number45

Member
Was talking with my buddy tonight while playing Crucible. It is really obvious that they split off development of D1 expansions and D2. Like how do you put in Private Matches in D1 and not have them in D2? There just seems to be zero carry over of the finishing touches found in D1 in D2. It's conceivable they started working this raid immediately after TTK and whatever they learned/did in WotM had no bearing on this raid.
If D1 is any indication, Bungie really like to have these things in the locker so that they have something to "add" to the game down the line.

I really like having ammo in my shooter game. Bungie work work on that please.
Yeah, this has bothered me ever since the special ammo nerf in D1. I shouldn't run out of primary ammo and to be honest, given the relative "power" of the energy slot, I shouldn't be running out there either.
 
I was pretty unimpressed with the parts my group did

haven't done the final boss yet

the
pleasure gardens
in particular were a pain in the ass, no pleasure to be found

I'm enjoying it but its going to be a raid people look back on and say it was one of the poorer efforts.
tons of repeat mechanics with one boss? I liked that each area can accessed in different ways but other than that this seems like they sort of phoned it in.

This is by far the worst raid Iv played in destiny. It's like KF x100 and a side of acid.

Also fuck last stands. Let me kill a boss and be done. Having no more ammo synths is just a terrible decision by Bungie running out of ammo constantly.

This is a one and done raid for me.
Shit just seems weird. Why put out a raid like this as the first one for D2? It honestly seems like something that will only be fun the first time around vs VoG where people only get a bit annoyed at Oracles and the lead up to the Templar fight.

I know the enemy faction kinda limits the weird shit they can include but man I would have been cool with us fighting a big ass Centaur tank or using one to take down a boss, maybe even those hovercraft things they got, just someeeeeeeething else other than
some pressure plate/relic thing again
that will probably be stale by next week.

IDK, I think I'm just a dummy who's not into the mechanic stuff. I think one of my favorite bosses in this franchise is still that strike with the invisible knight in that pit. It's basically pure chaos but it's a lot of fun.

I wish Bungie could at least design a miniboss or encounter for a raid that let the mechanics take a back seat for a bit and have it mostly be a 6 man massive battle, with moving platforms, teleporting, vehicles, overstuff that bitch. I mean, even something against one crazy OP boss who just doesn't give a eff about standing on one spot for phases would be cool.
 

ZeoVGM

Banned
Yeah. Creatively the zone and themes are on point. Otherwise it is kind of a disaster and way below the bar set by any of the first game's raids.

Calling it a disaster seems like an extreme case of hyperbole, especially saying it's "way below" Crota's End.

Even halfway through, this is clearly better than CE.
 
these raid impressions

990.jpg
 

ZeoVGM

Banned
I really like having ammo in my shooter game. Bungie work work on that please.

I mean, they certainly fixed the issues with power ammo dropping in the beta. Are you having issues with kinetic or energy ammo?

As long as you make an effort to pick it up, it should rarely be a problem.
 

Number45

Member
As much as I like how seamless getting rep with the various vendors is currently (basically just play the game) I hope they do something a little different when they introduce the factions to the game.
 
I mean, they certainly fixed the issues with power ammo dropping in the beta. Are you having issues with kinetic or energy ammo?

As long as you make an effort to pick it up, it should rarely be a problem.
Raid it dousnt drop at all

Regular game is fine. But good luck getting having ammo when you need it in the raid.
 

Sumidor

Member
Not a fan of the raid. I understand it's supposed to be difficult and require teamwork, but damn.

I will keep trying though, cause I did have fun playing with the guys I played with.
 

Seibmoz

Member
Ah, fair enough. I didn't watch a lot on stream but I did see a lot of
hiding from dogs
.


During campaign missions, yes. Game is constantly saving progress (because you're constantly online) but I don't know how it treats adventures and the like.
Sorry I meant does the raid still save checkpoints
 
My thoughts on the Leviathan raid.

Watched the whole raid played live, then had the experience of going into it myself. My feelings on this thing are all over the place.

Honestly, the Leviathan wound up being a huge missed opportunity imo. The sheer size of this ship is so big that you can reasonably justify this being its own zone; the whole thing is bigger than the planets it devours and makes the Dreadnaught look like a small RC car by comparison.

Instead, we raid this little palace located at the top. When we first found out that the Leviathan itself was going to be a raid, I envisioned things like utilizing some vehicle sections for fights, seeing a cast of bosses that are looking to re-instill Calus as the Cabal Emperor, dismantling crucial parts of the Leviathan that help the ship run in order to render it useless. I liked the aesthetics of the place and Bungie really did a fine job of honing in on the whole 'opulence' theme of the space, but there is just so much more they could have done, either with the Leviathan itself or with the raid & encounters they ultimately constructed here.

Like, look at Bungie's half attempt at the whole winged raid that other MMOs have done - the whole thing here is an illusion. Sure, there is one central hub we return to, but we can't ever go in & explore this space without doing one of those horde-mode sections which basically take the place of trash mobs or the door-opening encounter from KF. Having to redo this encounter 4 different times, each one beyond the first leading to a chest which just gives you some glimmer, straight up sucks. It makes a long experience like raiding feel even longer, considering these little sections can take 10 minutes and thats if you don't wipe or run into any issues.

Why couldn't the whole raid be linear, with one encounter leading to the next? Players having to go back to this central hub & redo this horde-encounter with zero reward for it is just tedious work. Its not even like they add a challenge to this horde mode to keep it interesting or challenging in the subsequent encounters.

Also, there is something supremely unsatisfying about having a raid where we don't really fight any bosses except for the end boss himself. I miss the days of KF right now - at least it felt like I was taking down enemies. Not dropping soap into a bathhouse so I could break purple lanterns, or go through a glorified obstacle course on a track.

The thing I was most disappointed by though is that since their introduction in Mars in D1 in 2014, I have always wanted to see a closer look into the Cabal & their empire through the perspective of a raid. But this isn't the look I had envisioned into their inner workings or their motivations. All the other raids have given a closer look at their respective species. But this does not give me the closer look at the Cabal empire I was hoping.
 
Is there a way now to check total playtime on PS4? Destinytracker.com says I played for 11 hours but I'm pretty sure that's not correct.
 

ZeoVGM

Banned
He said it "doesn't drop at all." Even ignoring that as a literal statement, the drop rate is not so low where that's even remotely close to being true. It's simply not.

Yes, you need to be careful. I ran out of kinetic twice I believe. So I had to run and go pick some up. The raid is the most difficult content in the game so yes, you might risk running out of ammo if you're not careful from time to time. That's how it should be.

But it certainly does drop.
 
Shit just seems weird. Why put out a raid like this as the first one for D2? It honestly seems like something that will only be fun the first time around vs VoG where people only get a bit annoyed at Oracles and the lead up to the Templar fight.

I know the enemy faction kinda limits the weird shit they can include but man I would have been cool with us fighting a big ass Centaur tank or using one to take down a boss, maybe even those hovercraft things they got, just someeeeeeeething else other than
some pressure plate/relic thing again
that will probably be stale by next week.

IDK, I think I'm just a dummy who's not into the mechanic stuff. I think one of my favorite bosses in this franchise is still that strike with the invisible knight in that pit. It's basically pure chaos but it's a lot of fun.

I wish Bungie could at least design a miniboss or encounter for a raid that let the mechanics take a back seat for a bit and have it mostly be a 6 man massive battle, with moving platforms, teleporting, vehicles, overstuff that bitch. I mean, even something against one crazy OP boss who just doesn't give a eff about standing on one spot for phases would be cool.

This post is spot on and I couldn't agree more.
 
He said it "doesn't drop at all." Even ignoring that as a literal statement, the drop rate is not so low where that's even remotely close to being true. It's simply not.

Yes, you need to be careful. I ran out of kinetic twice I believe. So I had to run and go pick some up. The raid is the most difficult content in the game so yes, you might risk running out of ammo if you're not careful from time to time. That's how it should be.

But it certainly does drop.
There were time wheres I ran out of all my ammo. All. The last boss I was always out of something. Yellow bars didn't always drop heavy.

If we're gonna be like this yes ammo dropped, but not enough.
 

Wallach

Member
Calling it a disaster seems like an extreme case of hyperbole, especially saying it's "way below" Crota's End.

Even halfway through, this is clearly better than CE.

It actually has really similar problems to Crota's End in some ways, with a string of coordination based sequences that don't have any collapsing focus where the optimal strats are going to calcify extremely quickly and become rote. The entire raid is basically the kind of connective tissue you'd expect spread throughout a raid without any of the bone it was supposed to be attached to.

I don't know how far I want to deconstruct this without getting heavy into spoilers but even Crota's End has a couple really important cadence changes that every other raid in Destiny (and almost every other raid I've ever experienced in an MMO has) that this raid totally lacks, which is what is contributing to so many people feeling "exhausted" or tired of progressing forward. It isn't the challenge or repeated failures, it's the single frequency at which the design operates all the way up until the final encounter. You pair that with what has shown to be a very poor reward structure for each of these points of progression and you have a raid that basically is set up to fail at its primary goal.

The fact that they chose this to be the first raid experience a lot of players are going to have is really the part that they fucked up, though. It's a terrible introduction to the concept. This is the part that I honestly find kind of inexcusable. If any of you were talking up raiding as a selling point on Destiny to your PC friends, you should probably just stop.
 

ZeoVGM

Banned
There were time wheres I ran out of all my ammo. All. The last boss I was always out of something. Yellow bars didn't always drop heavy.

If we're gonna be like this yes ammo dropped, but not enough.

Well, I haven't done the final boss yet but everything else? Rarely an issue. I feel like if you ran out of ALL your ammo multiple times in the raid, you should try to adjust how your'e playing.

I don't believe running out of all of your ammo on all three guns multiple times is a common issue.
 

GutZ31

Member
He said it "doesn't drop at all." Even ignoring that as a literal statement, the drop rate is not so low where that's even remotely close to being true. It's simply not.

Yes, you need to be careful. I ran out of kinetic twice I believe. So I had to run and go pick some up. The raid is the most difficult content in the game so yes, you might risk running out of ammo if you're not careful from time to time. That's how it should be.

But it certainly does drop.

I don't even know how you can defend this when ammo synths aren't even in the game.

And to reiterate; In some of my own sessions of strikes for example, I have had 0(zero)
ammo drops, until my death, or a new session is loaded.


This happens in patrol if I am in one area for long enough without loading a new area.
Ammo not dropping at all does happen.
 
Well, I haven't done the final boss yet but everything else? Rarely an issue. I feel like if you ran out of ALL your ammo multiple times in the raid, you should try to adjust how your'e playing.

I don't believe running out of all of your ammo on all three guns multiple times is a common issue.
So you haven't played the last boss and your trying to criticize my play style. Ok then. I'm not even bothering with this anymore. When my entire team and many others have had this issue. I know it's not just me.
 

Namikaze1

Member
So raid spoilers, but here's a vid of a hilarious bug we encounter at the end of
Gameshow encounter

This is unquestionably false.
So I guess I dreamt up being completely out of ammo on all but my primary which had just roughly 20 bullets left towards the end of one of the raid's encounters.

We were seriously running out of ammo many times. Most of the times, the yellow bars would not drop power ammo.
 
Lé Blade Runner;248934068 said:
Man, reading discussions about Crucible on Reddit is heart-wrenching... Seemingly 80% of people hate it. I, on the other hand, really enjoy it, and have had zero lag-issues. Am I just crazy, though?
I dislike it also. Feels like you have to be very cautious and thoughtful which doesn't jam well with the pace and energy of the game. And going in without a fireteam puts you at such a huge disadvantage. In Destiny 1 i could play crucible all evening, but i don't feel compelled to do this version of it beyond the weekly milestone.
 

ZeoVGM

Banned
I don't even know how you can defend this when ammo synths aren't even in the game.

And to reiterate; In some of my own sessions of strikes for example, I have had 0(zero)
ammo drops, until my death, or a new session is loaded.


This happens in patrol if I am in one area for long enough without loading a new area.
Ammo not dropping at all does happen.

That honestly like a bug. It hasn't happened to me a single time in the hours and hours I've played so far.
 
It seemed like the raid is based around the same network limitations of old games i.e. Alot of the same defend a spot type of stuff, but over all I was impressed. In D1 only 50% of players completed a raid. Leviathan looks simpler than other raids and while not as creative as some it appears to be more accessible. I might add the end of it suggests that prestige difficulty might be where the action is at. Also nice to see the story twist at the end. Lets just hope that dismantle the Levithan is somewhere in the future of D2.
 

GraveRobberX

Platinum Trophy: Learned to Shit While Upright Again.
If they can Hotfix Kekistan, they can Hotfix
Woofistan, that is the Pleasure Gardens, nothing pleasurable about that place.

I know how Spores and the prism light work, know how to hit x36 or x48, know all sore locations by heart now, where are all 6 doggy's locations.

That should be it, there should be no, hey our pathing code fucked up, the dog saw ya, lol

Seriously it saw us through cover, all 4 of us hidden, then a few times tag the dudes up top out of fucking nowhere, which should never ever happen unless they fall

This we had to go through with VoG and the goddamn portal with "Working as Intended", but changed which 3 get ported cause the community got tired of getting fucked over

I get others with their statics within a few tries got it, but when 6 randoms, who's names you don't know and do your very best where everyone is performing well and the game Mechanics bork and fuck you over, even the hardcore will get agitated

I'm in no rush to beat or be a Worlds First by any standard, but if I put in time, don't add things you know might fuck up.
Gorgons at least pathing was set and the area small enough to get through
Now you have to do cycles and burn them down, which if you get 2 good cycles a 3rd erratic dog might trigger and destroy all that progress w/o you doing anything ad none of it being your fault


Guided Games for Raid are going to be astronomically hilarious. Godspeed to those souls.
 
Well, I haven't done the final boss yet but everything else? Rarely an issue. I feel like if you ran out of ALL your ammo multiple times in the raid, you should try to adjust how your'e playing.

I don't believe running out of all of your ammo on all three guns multiple times is a common issue.

They were running nearly flawlessly many times. Ammo drops need to be examined full stop.
 

ZeoVGM

Banned
So you haven't played the last boss and your trying to criticize my play style. Ok then. I'm not even bothering with this anymore. When my entire team and many others have had this issue. I know it's not just me.

You were talking about the raid as a whole, not just the final boss. So yes, I can certainly give my opinion. I played the raid for four hours tonight and did not have this major ammo issue you had.

Sounds like others have had issues too, I guess. For the life of me, I can't understand why. It hasn't been an issue for me personally, my clan has not mentioned it a single time and the randoms I played the raid with tonight had no issues either.

So I'm not quite sure where the disconnect is here, to be honest.
 
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