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Hollywood Directors team up against the scourge of TV Motion Smoothing
- Thread starter wenis
- Start date
Pai Pai Master
Banned
Fuck yeah. Motion smoothing is the worst thing ever.
michaelius
Banned
Start filming them in high fps mode then. Hobbit 48fps was amazing experience.
old manatee
Banned
My dad's friend had this turned on and we watched all of of Goodfellas that way. It looked like a cheap soap opera. I was laughing my a o.
Johnny Cage In The Shower
Member
Hey man! It works great for video gaming on your TV. I get it that it shouldn't be set up as default. But it got me through lots of Pc gaming goodness, maling it seem like some games were a lot smoother in frame rate than they actually were.
Manny Calavera
Member
This sums it up. Always the first feature I disable.
ShadowKingpin
Member
YES. Get rid of that shit!
ClosingADoor
Member
TVs should display the images and done. No bullshit processing or smoothing or whatever. It is never better.
RandomHopeInc
Member
I hate that effect so much, who asked to be hyper aware of the camera while watching movies? NO ONE
UpperCaseN
Member
Every input on my TV is set to PC mode. I have zero PC's connected to my TV
Giolon
Member
My mom got a new 4K 65" X930D Sony TV at the beginning of the year, and with motion smoothing entirely turned off, jerkiness was distractingly bad. Fortunately, it has custom adjustments, so I enabled it with the minimum amount of smoothing, and it addresses the 90% motion jerkiness without making motion look soap opera fake and overly smooth. So, I think that there are improvements that have been made in the tech that don't have to make everything look like butt. My ~4 year old Sony W900a looks terrible with it turned on, so I keep it off.
I hate when I walk into a bar or a restaurant and they've got their TVs with motion interpolation set to maximum soap opera. I just want to take their remote and fix it.
I hate when I walk into a bar or a restaurant and they've got their TVs with motion interpolation set to maximum soap opera. I just want to take their remote and fix it.
That's caused by displays being flicker-free, not because they are LCDs. OLEDs have exactly the same problem.
It's also much worse than that. Those motion tests they use - which are a test of slow panning motion, not fast motion - run at 60Hz.
On a flicker-free display, motion resolution is linked directly to framerate. So it's not dropping to "300 lines of motion resolution" with 24 FPS film - it's dropping to 120 lines.
Nope. Film looks like that natively. The problem is that pretty much no-one has been watching film natively at 24Hz for decades.
Interpolation is closer to an accurate representation of the source material than repeating frames.
I'll take motion blur over PWM driving. Plasmas give me migraines due to the problems that they have in motion, like the image breaking up into separate colors. Black and white films in particular are unwatchable.
Warning: lots of flicker. This slow-motion video shows how they actually draw the image.
Note: the refresh rates listed there are wrong. 14 sub-fields per frame is 840Hz (not 1400Hz) and 28 sub-fields per frame is 1680Hz (not 2800Hz).
For good motion handling, refresh rate must be equal to the framerate.
NoMoreTrolls
Banned
Good. It looks like shit.
Wandering Robot
Member
You know, I've always hated the look but just learned the name thanks to this thread. Fortunately my TV doesn't have it, but next time I visit a few certain family members, I'll do them a quick favor.
The high frame rate would be nice for some things... but it is HORRIBLE for everything due to the damn artifacts. Sports probably doesnt suffer if people dont mind it... unless they are used to seeing players look like they came out of Ringu...
Kill. It. With. Fire.
At least HFR will never be a thing in cinemas again...?
Kill. It. With. Fire.
At least HFR will never be a thing in cinemas again...?
Sorry that you fall into the minority and seem to have major issues with flickering. As someone who also suffers from migraines I totally get it. I left a job because they changed to different lighting that was a major trigger and have viewed some plasmas that have had a similar affect on me. However, not all PDPs were created equal and I've owned late model Pioneers/Panasonics for years without having issues.
Blur, however, continues to be a persistent issue with every LCD/OLED. And I'm a home theater installer so you name it, and I'm eyes-on with it on a regular basis.
Feels like every holiday I'm adjusting people's TVs to turn it off.
AuthenticM
Member
Now this is something I can get behind.
killdatninja
Banned
It's gotten better over the years but any of the "high" settings just look awful in the real world (not on TV specific engineered demo's). I don't know how the QA departments look at a TV with motion smoothing set to high and think to themselves "the motion on this looks amazing".
It adds a few frames worth of input lag.
The Avatar sequels are being shot at 48fps HFR, last we heard.
There's been discussion of games implementing this internally to achieve that effect with minimal input lag, but nobody's actually done it yet. It has some things in common with temporal reconstruction techniques used for AA, just with the added element of interpolating new frames instead of just smoothing out temporal artifacts in existing ones.
The Albatross
Member
I lost this argument for years at friends houses and just gave up.
"It looks more real"
Input lag is the main reason which is really the opposite of what you want when trying to achieve 60fps responsiveness. Ends up working against your goal.
"It looks more real"
Input lag is the main reason which is really the opposite of what you want when trying to achieve 60fps responsiveness. Ends up working against your goal.
Yeah, it sucks. I have issues with a lot of LED lighting too - especially cheap LED lighting, which tends to use PWM dimming.
It's not an issue with any specific model of plasma though - it's how they fundamentally draw an image that is the problem.
Even if the phosphors all had identical response times, which would solve the color breakup problem, they're still drawing the image using sub-frames instead of refreshing once per frame.
Several LCDs and even some OLEDs now have backlight scanning or BFI options which greatly reduces motion blur if it's refreshing at the same rate as the framerate.
The main problem arises when the refresh rate is higher than the source framerate, since you get clear double-images in place of the motion blur.
With film only being 24 FPS, and manufacturers refusing to strobe at a rate lower than 60Hz, the only solution is interpolation, or some combination of interpolation plus strobing.
3:2 pulldown means that they extract the original 24 FPS frames from a 60Hz source.
Five 1080i60 fields gives you two 1080p24 frames with 3:2 pulldown - or even 480i60 to 480p24 with DVDs in certain players.
This eliminates the judder caused by an uneven 3:2 cadence from fitting 24 frames into 60 refreshes, but does nothing for the jerky appearance of low framerate motion on a flicker-free display.
Filmmakers really need to drop the idea that there is something magical about the number 24.
If it was shot at 60 FPS, it could display in HFR on virtually every television ever produced. (at least in NTSC regions)
Almost nothing supports 48Hz inputs.
If they are going to pick a framerate that nothing currently supports, they should have gone with something like 120 FPS.
Push for something even higher than that and keep theaters one step ahead of consumer displays, even.
They're not wrong.
24 FPS looks very unnatural the way that 99% of displays out there show it.
It's just that cinephiles somehow like that awful stuttering motion and the screen becoming a blur if anything moves.
It would look like garbage and it can fuck off. HFR does not do anything but make film look like low budget crap. 60fps is for videogames, not movies.
You HFR people will never win this fight, thankfully. Nobody can afford to triple their CG budgets.
Robot Pants
Member
Normally Id be on board.
But my Sony 850c has smoothing settings and standard is pretty fantastic on my tv.
But my Sony 850c has smoothing settings and standard is pretty fantastic on my tv.
googleplex
Member
I saw The Hobbit in 3D at 48FPS. Shit was amazing.
Johnny Cage In The Shower
Member
If your're dumb enough to leave this "feature" on when you newly purchase TV home and leave it on while watching movies: Maybe you don't deserve to buy a new TV etc.
What I'm getting at is, it's a feature that should not go away. It should be there as an option. Because like I said, I think it works great for (most) gaming.
What I'm getting at is, it's a feature that should not go away. It should be there as an option. Because like I said, I think it works great for (most) gaming.
Englebert3rd
Unconfirmed Member
I always hated that Soap Opera effect. It was the first thing I turned off in my latest TV.
Death Metalist
Member
about fucking time
katsubento
Member
First thing I turn off when I get a new TV.
Jesus Carbomb
From Water into Guinness
Should only be left on by the manufacturer for their "Sports Mode" preset. For every other preset it should be turned off.
To Far Away Times
Member
Yup. I can't stand it.
Because it "looks cool" to the less discerning crowd.
Septimus Prime
Member
Listen, if you want chromatic aberration, buy a CRT and shake it. Then you will have this feature always on.
More like real life instead of being a slide show. Unfortunately, we've been brainwashed to think that stuttery, stilted framerates are a mark of high quality photography.
To be fair, motion smoothing is artificially trying to achieve higher frame rates after the fact by frame doubling and adding interpolated frames (akin to anti-aliasing in the temporal direction).
Bobo Dakes
Member
I'll notice this on other people's TVs when I'm at their house and ask them if they want me to turn it off and they'll ask me what I'm talking about.
Might be too late.
See it on all the 4K TVs whenever I go to Best Buy.
Shame.
Might be too late.
See it on all the 4K TVs whenever I go to Best Buy.
Shame.
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