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Framing Snyder's Superman - Why people think he doesn't care

Veelk

Banned
I'm gonna just out and say it: This entire post has been inspired by Lindsay Ellis' video on Megan Fox in the Transformers movies, which you should watch. But if you know this video, you probably know where I am going with this.

One of the most interesting phenomenons about the DCEU is how dissonant the viewer's perception of Superman is with the text of the films he's in. Many, many criticism of the DCEU are founded on the idea that this version of Superman is indifferent to being a hero and the suffering of others. Now, there have been a loooot of questionable arguments defending this interpretation of Superman, there is one bone we have to throw to the defenders of the DCEU: This Superman has saved people. Not only that, he's kinda dedicated his life to it. To date:


  • He saves kids against his father's wishes as a child.
  • The movie opens with him saving people from the oil rig.
  • Man of Steel opens with him saving people from the oil rig.
  • He saves individuals in multiple instances during Zod's invasion and he saves the world as a whole by defeating Zod.
  • The climax of Man of Steel is him saving a family by killing Zod.
  • In BvS, there is a montage over newsheads talking while he saves people from a rocket, pulls a boat by chain walking on ice (I would fucking LOVE to know what that particular disaster even was and how Superman tugging on the ship through the ice helps), saves some during a flood or something, and he saves some from a collapsing building on fire.
  • He helps those he can when the senate building explodes
  • Saves Lois on multiple occasions
  • Saves Lex Luthor for some reason
  • Saves the world in general again from Doomsday. Multiple times if you count him nearly dying to the nuke that he willingly took, if as something he expected to kill him.

And others, but beyond that, the entirety of both Man of Steel and BvS is largely about Superman struggling to realize his heroism on a level that satisfies him, which he does at the end of MoS, and then sort of again at the end of BvS. And yet people still walk away from the theater with the idea that Superman doesn't save, or atleast that he doesn't care.

How does this happen? I'm hardly the first person to have noticed this, but I could never think of a good way to articulate why this was. And it wasn't until I watched Lindsay's video that it was made clear: The film was unable to frame Superman as someone who gives a shit, despite the text of the film clearly showing he does.

Once I put it in those terms, a lot of the cause of the problems became clear. For example, here is superman in the midst of a attack in the smallville town.

6SnaYEQ.gif

He's telling people to get inside to safety, and you can argue that there isn't much more he can reasonably do for them other than take out the aliens who pose the danger, as he proceeds to do. But they've already been scrambling to find cover for several seconds when he says this, so yeah, thanks for the update superman, 10/10 heroing. But more importantly is how he conveys this crucial information. He doesn't yell this, he just...says it. As if he were talking to someone in front of him, with a normal tone of voice, while his body language is just casually walking toward the other Kyptonians. It's hard to believe anyone even heard him. There's no urgency in his voice, no concern or panic, no body language indicating tension.

Compare this to a similar scene in avengers where Captain America tries to get people to safety from an alien invasion


Now, I cut out some parts that also contribute to the films depiction of heroism like the cop's confusion and panic, as well as Captain America proving his credentials as a protector in front of them right after, because I want to focus solely on body language. Captain America is directly speaking to a specific individual, so you know he's being heard. You don't hear it in the gif, but he's slightly winded, his breathe a bit ragged between sentences. He's very animated pointing to a particular location along with his instructions, showing that he doesn't just wants people 'inside' but he wants them in a specific location where they'll be safest. Not only does this convey that Captain America wants to safe people in a much more visually intense way, but also shows confidence in his competence. He's standing on the car, slightly above them, giving the impression of having higher authority or power. Everything about him communicates he's the hero and knows what he's doing.

You might want to be tempted to frame this as exclusively an actor's problem with Cavill, but it's not that Cavill is just acting unconvincingly concerned, it's that the scenes around him are designed to focus on his misery rather than the hope and safety he is meant to be inspiring. In BvS's montage, you get several scenes. One is where he looks extremely uncomfortable while a crowd of people gets too handsy. The boat pulling scene and the flood scene have him as a distant figure, away from humanity. Same thing with the rocket saving scene, except we see his constipated face. Maybe he's just straining with the weight of it, but it's hard to tell because he's lifted similarly large things with relative ease. And then we see him after he finishes watching the newsreal where people are discussing him (not just in a negative way, but in general).


He just seems thoroughly uncomfortable to be involved. And while this is intentionally serving the theme of the story where Superman is uncomfortable with his perception of being viewed as a God, what it visually conveys is the depiction of a guy stuck doing a job he doesn't care for. If Superman were at a sports event, he would be this dude. He just looks like he's not into it, regardless of whatever is going on internally.

And while the text of the film shows that Superman does save people and want to save people, that's not to say that it doesn't also conflict with itself either. The narrative of both MoS and BvS put into serious contention of whether Superman is good for the world. Pa Kent promotes a distrustful and selfish viewpoint, to the extent that he would suggest Clark let kids die than be a hero. BvS's Knightmare scene implies that Lois' lifeline is the only thing keeping Superman from going full Murderman/Dictatorman. Batman's entire arc is him tackling Superman's danger to the world. It's confusing how the story seems to want you to consider whether Superman's effect on the world is actually a positive one, only to end with a seemingly conclusive note of "Yeah, he is, totally, symbol of hope and all that". And you can argue that that conclusion retroactively disspells those notions, there is still the fact that you, as a viewer, are forced to consider whether Superman is worth all this trouble when he's being depicted as uncomfortable as a superhero through the majority of the film's run time.

And there is more to consider that I don't even want to get into. The editing, like how Superman kills Zod and then the next scene is a jokey scene with the general of him knocking down the drone is moodwhiplash from something that apparently is deeply traumatic to Superman to him basically having gotten over it. Lois and Superman establishing their love in the ruins of Metropolis. Or how, if you compare Superman's reaction (screaming in horror) to when he kills Zod to his reaction to when the Senate explodes (mehface), he looks like he just doesn't care as much. People can bring up their own examples of the dissonance of what they see vs what the film clearly wants them to see in the rest of the thread.

Anyway, I just wanted to do one last MoS/BvS topic before we get our next superhero whipping boy next month. I probably repeated some stuff that's already been discussed before, but Lindsay's video personally offered me a new understanding of the problems that Snyder's superman has.
 

theWB27

Member
Captain America who was a war hero and battle hardened and WANTED to fight and be the best compared to an alien who doesn't know his place amid a bunch of pedestrian humans in his first real fight?

I'd say him saying it quietly is a way to show how unsure of himself he is even though he's walking into battle...because that's what thinks he's supposed to do.

Also Zod dies by his own hands...and the Senate didn't. Not to say the reaction is warranted...but he just killed a dude.
 

Ogodei

Member
Short story is Snyder is stuck in the philosophy of Watchmen and wants his Superman to be Dr. Manhattan.
 

JayCB

Member
Really good post OP, though, as with all threads like this, it's going to descend into chaos pretty soon.
 

Zabka

Member
Snyder thought he was making a conflicted Superman but he just came off looking morose.

Also he wasted a golden opportunity to show Superman saving people from the rubble of Metropolis in MoS.
 

Yazzees

Member
Short story is Snyder is stuck in the philosophy of Watchmen and wants his Superman to be Dr. Manhattan.

Yep. In other words giving him Superman was a huge mistake. MoS being as bad as it was is something I expected the moment I heard of who's directing it, practically 3 years before seeing it.
 

Veelk

Banned
And he is shown (in the ultimate edition) bringing people to the paramedics.
Yup, and the paramedics reaction is pretty hilarious. He just kinda went "Uh...yeah, thanks. Can you...give me some space to work now? Thanks, bro" He treated superman as an unwanted party guest.
 

stupei

Member
The trouble is that Snyder wants to tell the story of the man who wants to be treated normally, wants to fit in, but at the same time Snyder wants his hero to appear cool and above average, much better than normal, and yes even god-like. It's why you get that one hilariously over the top shot of Clark hovering above those he rescues, silently looking sad and detached while framed in sunlight. Snyder wants him to look like a god to the viewer, even as Clark angsts over that perception. It doesn't work, tonally, to have the director pushing for the exact same image that the protagonist himself seems to want to reject.

A much better way to convey that information would be to have Clark try to interact with people as equals, to try to relate and connect, and have that repeatedly shut down by people not wanting to see the man so much as the symbol. But to do that would make Clark have moments where he's just an awkward guy and not a brooding handsome objectivist symbol of the superior being, and it really feels like the only use Snyder sees in Superman as a character is in what he might metaphorically represent, and not the man at all. He just seems to think the mundane tasks of forming emotional connections -- or even attempting to -- are so petty and human that to show Clark engaging in them would be to belittle what might make him heroic.

Which kind of misses the point of Superman. It's why he can do all the bullet points and still feel off. Because the image and cape are being prioritized over the man underneath. Film is a visual medium and Snyder is an incredibly visual director, so the imagery he uses to frame Clark's actions are why he comes across as inconsistent.
 

Rvaan

Banned
Synder's Superman does not give off an aura of hope and safety when he's saving people. He shows to the scene with the look of a veteran police officer on his face. He looks like he's treating saving people as something he has to do and not something that be both want to and love to do.
 
I find it weird that Synder and Bryan Singer were so obsessed with making Superman a weirdo outsider to the human race when the whole point of him being raised by humble farmers was that they raised him as a normal decent human. Angst and sadness don't suit the Man of Tomorrow.
 
Yup, and the paramedics reaction is pretty hilarious. He just kinda went "Uh...yeah, thanks. Can you...give me some space to work now? Thanks, bro" He treated superman as an unwanted party guest.
And yet people wonder why this Superman isn't all gleeful. If Superman actually existed in our world, I guarantee you he wouldn't be anything like Reeve's.
 

trikster40

Member
Short story is Snyder is stuck in the philosophy of Watchmen and wants his Superman to be Dr. Manhattan.

Wow, never thought about but I totally agree. Although, Dr Manhattan realizes what he was and that humanity was waaaay beneath him. Supes, on the other hand, has placed this huge burden on himself to save humanity, which, to me, has sort of broken him. He’s torn between being a Kryptonian and an Earthling.
 

Toxi

Banned
This is kinda a lofty comparison but... If there's anything Snyder's Superman needed, it was something akin to the crying baby scene in Children of Men. A scene of people so overcome by the emotional weight of something that for a moment, they forget their rage and selfishness. That's what Snyder's Superman needed to be. All that talk about inspiration and raising people up, and there was no scene of this really happening.
 
Nah. It's not that he doesn't save people.

He doesn't inspire people convincingly. Chris Evans's Captain America does the character justice a hundred times over. He feels like people can look up to him as a symbol.

Cavill's Superman does... the bare minimum. He's not comforting people in times of need. He's not going to save his friend in spite of the law. He's not visiting old ladies at the hospital.

He's just punching shit and saving people. Congratulations for meeting the requirement for "hero."

When he sacrifices himself, that's good, sure... But it doesn't even feel like a powerful sacrifice.
 

stupei

Member
Superman is inherently the story of an immigrant who is told over and over "you are not one of us, you do not belong" but refuses to accept that and works to defend the home he has immigrated to, even in the face of relentless rejection.

By framing him as actually being an outsider who doesn't belong amongst the people of his chosen homeland and never will -- to frame that interpretation of him as the correct one that the audience should agree with -- misses the point of his story entirely.
 
DCEU Wonder Woman is the Superman that the world needs. DCEU Superman is his own character. A re-imagining of the hero.

As much as I love Supes, it's the truth.
 

Shaanyboi

Banned
The movie is decidedly uninterested in Clark's point of view, and specifically why he wants to be a hero at all. He is Superman... just because. He has no endgame. But add to that, so many of the acts of heroism are treated like "Yeah, let's get this out of the way..." or as some kind of horrific burden until the movie can get back to focusing on the grim violent shit. You're never given a moment to just take some joy in seeing Superman on-screen, being something worth aspiring to.

Versus a Captain America who states his intentions pretty explicitly - "I don't want to kill anyone. I don't like bullies. I don't care where they're from."

Even Batman v Superman, a movie that theoretically would have two competing worldviews, is so uninterested in Clark that half of his storyline was cut for the theatrical release.
 
Snyder Superman is a very insecure person who cant help but feel he's making the world a worse place by existing but at the same time feels a strong responsibility to help others. Like you say he's very uncomfortable being a symbol of hope -- which is what he is in the comics and what people want him to be in these movies. I appreciate your analysis of the body language.
 

Veelk

Banned
Superman is inherently the story of an immigrant who is told over and over "you are not one of us, you do not belong" but refuses to accept that and works to defend the home he has immigrated to, even in the face of relentless rejection.

By framing him as actually being an outsider who doesn't belong amongst the people of his chosen homeland and never will -- to frame that interpretation of him as the correct one that the audience should agree with -- misses the point of his story entirely.

Which is even more problematic since the films act like that aspect is resolved by the end. MoS has him claiming to the general to just be a kid from Kansas, and BvS has the world accept him as a soldier (which...ugh, I am so uncomfortable with the glorification of militarism of that ending, but besides the point). So in the first movie, he asserts his place as one of them only to go back to being an outsider in the second, then the second concludes with the world accepting him.

But that you still then have the film basically saying "Yeah, he's an outsider" for 95% of it's run time other than the ending.
 
The biggest problem is Snyder trying to carve out some sort of depth or character from a superhero.
Marvel does it right by embracing the paper thin canvas and delivering a crass caricature of what people would like to be.
 
I don't feel there was enough movie time to effectively execute the character arc Snyder was trying to tell. I like the idea of having a young Superman who sort of doubts his position in life, but if you were going to go in that direction you probably needed another solo movie before BvS/JL to flesh things out and turn him into a Superman that actually would be mourned after death.
 
Yup, and the paramedics reaction is pretty hilarious. He just kinda went "Uh...yeah, thanks. Can you...give me some space to work now? Thanks, bro" He treated superman as an unwanted party guest.

Tbf the narrative at that point is meant to be "Everyone in that room died because Superman was there" so they were probably trying to show how uneasy people would be after that.

I don't feel there was enough movie time to effectively execute the character arc Snyder was trying to tell. I like the idea of having a young Superman who sort of doubts his position in life, but if you were going to go in that direction you probably needed another solo movie before BvS/JL to flesh things out and turn him into a Superman that actually would be mourned after death.

I agree. A lot of the DCCU stuff wants you to take for granted the heroes are how they are, WW aside. You never see Batman on patrol much but he has a reputation. You're told Superman is worshipped by the people but only see a montage of him saving people.

Like the examples in the OP are there yet it still feels dissonant somehow. Like those moments had so little impact even though it's Superman you feel like they never happened.
 

Shaanyboi

Banned
Tbf the narrative at that point is meant to be "Everyone in that room died because Superman was there" so they were probably trying to show how uneasy people would be after that.

Except there are plenty of people uneasy about Superman before that, so really, what has changed?
 
Superman is inherently the story of an immigrant who is told over and over "you are not one of us, you do not belong" but refuses to accept that and works to defend the home he has immigrated to, even in the face of relentless rejection.

By framing him as actually being an outsider who doesn't belong amongst the people of his chosen homeland and never will -- to frame that interpretation of him as the correct one that the audience should agree with -- misses the point of his story entirely.

This is a big part of popular, negative conception of the character sadly. A lot of people, both in universe and out, really do seem him as an alien first, and a person second. The monologue from Kill Bill comes to mind.

I kinda wish they had done a Clark Kent movie standalone, since I feel that's actually the stronger part in Man of Steel (though it still has issues), and at least there the conflict over who/what he is and whether or not he really belongs has a functional place. It's not as if there isn't a great deal of material to draw on in that regard either - the idea of Clark travelling the world to come to terms with himself has been there since at least the 90s; not sure of comic examples (Birthright is the most popular, from the 00s), but the Lois and Clark show regularly alluded to how well travelled he was.
 
I liked MoS and in the context of that story I didn't think badly of Superman's characterization. Remember the main story takes place over the span of a few days, during an invasion.

I was very let down by the path the character took in BvS
 
DCEU Wonder Woman is the Superman that the world needs. DCEU Superman is his own character. A re-imagining of the hero.

As much as I love Supes, it's the truth.

I agree with this actually, WW is pretty much what Supes is supposed to be. Snyder blew it, and I won't forgive him in MoS for
allowing his father to die.
WTF, he would never let that happen. Ever.
 
It doesn't work, tonally, to have the director pushing for the exact same image that the protagonist himself seems to want to reject.

lol what?

no, that's called interesting direction.

doesn't matter what supes wants, he's a fucking god among men, putting that contrast on display is called good direction.

i can appreciate many of people's criticisms of Snyder's work here, but this is one is just... no.
 
A lot of it comes down to Snyder's lack of awareness and subtlety when it comes to the optics of the situations Superman is in.

4687442-zod+kicks+tanker.gif


Like, Superman, I'm glad you're fine, but you could have just stopped that truck. Now that building is ruined. Do you not care about collateral damage??

3YSdn.jpg


Yeah Superman, that guy was a huge scummy douchebag but geez, that comes off more as anger issues than being chivilrous. I'm not sure destroying a man's livelihood is exactly fair punishment.

That scene always came off as bad for me because, well, what is he trying to say? Is he showing off? Is he angry and went too far? Either way it actually comes across more disturbed than heroic.

It's more sight gag and comeuppance than anything, I get it, but it has really unfortunate implications.

Overall, Snyder's Superman comes off as a genuinely unstable person. I wouldn't, and don't, trust him.

Not enough was done to make him truely heroic. He's more a force of nature with questionable morality.
 

foxuzamaki

Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
Im reading your post and so far all the things your describing doesnt sound like actual flaws with the movies but what the character is properly conveying.
Superman isnt comfortable 100% with what he's doing, he is saving people because he feel its right, but for every action he does people judge him either as someone who could turn on them or this great messiah that will solve all their problems.

I think the movie did a good job portraying that, and in the end of MvS he is resolute that he will die to save people, even if those people may not like him or think too much of him.
 
So in Batman v Superman they had those news scenes where they were talking about Superman and what he should do, and then that congresswoman's speech at the courthouse. They basically treat him with contempt as if he's there to do what they want and they don't seem very grateful for all he's done. Still he tries to do the right thing anyway. He's better than most people. He doesn't need to be out there with a smile on his face acting like everything is okay.
 
I'm gonna just out and say it: This entire post has been inspired by Lindsay Ellis' video on Megan Fox in the Transformers movies, which you should watch. But if you know this video, you probably know where I am going with this.

One of the most interesting phenomenons about the DCEU is how dissonant the viewer's perception of Superman is with the text of the films he's in. Many, many criticism of the DCEU are founded on the idea that this version of Superman is indifferent to being a hero and the suffering of others. Now, there have been a loooot of questionable arguments defending this interpretation of Superman, there is one bone we have to throw to the defenders of the DCEU: This Superman has saved people. Not only that, he's kinda dedicated his life to it. To date:


  • He saves kids against his father's wishes as a child.
  • The movie opens with him saving people from the oil rig.
  • Man of Steel opens with him saving people from the oil rig.
  • He saves individuals in multiple instances during Zod's invasion and he saves the world as a whole by defeating Zod.
  • The climax of Man of Steel is him saving a family by killing Zod.
  • In BvS, there is a montage over newsheads talking while he saves people from a rocket, pulls a boat by chain walking on ice (I would fucking LOVE to know what that particular disaster even was and how Superman tugging on the ship through the ice helps), saves some during a flood or something, and he saves some from a collapsing building on fire.
  • He helps those he can when the senate building explodes
  • Saves Lois on multiple occasions
  • Saves Lex Luthor for some reason
  • Saves the world in general again from Doomsday. Multiple times if you count him nearly dying to the nuke that he willingly took, if as something he expected to kill him.

And others, but beyond that, the entirety of both Man of Steel and BvS is largely about Superman struggling to realize his heroism on a level that satisfies him, which he does at the end of MoS, and then sort of again at the end of BvS. And yet people still walk away from the theater with the idea that Superman doesn't save, or atleast that he doesn't care.

How does this happen? I'm hardly the first person to have noticed this, but I could never think of a good way to articulate why this was. And it wasn't until I watched Lindsay's video that it was made clear: The film was unable to frame Superman as someone who gives a shit, despite the text of the film clearly showing he does.

Once I put it in those terms, a lot of the cause of the problems became clear. For example, here is superman in the midst of a attack in the smallville town.



He's telling people to get inside to safety, and you can argue that there isn't much more he can reasonably do for them other than take out the aliens who pose the danger, as he proceeds to do. But they've already been scrambling to find cover for several seconds when he says this, so yeah, thanks for the update superman, 10/10 heroing. But more importantly is how he conveys this crucial information. He doesn't yell this, he just...says it. As if he were talking to someone in front of him, with a normal tone of voice, while his body language is just casually walking toward the other Kyptonians. It's hard to believe anyone even heard him. There's no urgency in his voice, no concern or panic, no body language indicating tension.

Compare this to a similar scene in avengers where Captain America tries to get people to safety from an alien invasion



Now, I cut out some parts that also contribute to the films depiction of heroism like the cop's confusion and panic, as well as Captain America proving his credentials as a protector in front of them right after, because I want to focus solely on body language. Captain America is directly speaking to a specific individual, so you know he's being heard. You don't hear it in the gif, but he's slightly winded, his breathe a bit ragged between sentences. He's very animated pointing to a particular location along with his instructions, showing that he doesn't just wants people 'inside' but he wants them in a specific location where they'll be safest. Not only does this convey that Captain America wants to safe people in a much more visually intense way, but also shows confidence in his competence. He's standing on the car, slightly above them, giving the impression of having higher authority or power. Everything about him communicates he's the hero and knows what he's doing.

You might want to be tempted to frame this as exclusively an actor's problem with Cavill, but it's not that Cavill is just acting unconvincingly concerned, it's that the scenes around him are designed to focus on his misery rather than the hope and safety he is meant to be inspiring. In BvS's montage, you get several scenes. One is where he looks extremely uncomfortable while a crowd of people gets too handsy. The boat pulling scene and the flood scene have him as a distant figure, away from humanity. Same thing with the rocket saving scene, except we see his constipated face. Maybe he's just straining with the weight of it, but it's hard to tell because he's lifted similarly large things with relative ease. And then we see him after he finishes watching the newsreal where people are discussing him (not just in a negative way, but in general).



He just seems thoroughly uncomfortable to be involved. And while this is intentionally serving the theme of the story where Superman is uncomfortable with his perception of being viewed as a God, what it visually conveys is the depiction of a guy stuck doing a job he doesn't care for. If Superman were at a sports event, he would be this dude. He just looks like he's not into it, regardless of whatever is going on internally.

And while the text of the film shows that Superman does save people and want to save people, that's not to say that it doesn't also conflict with itself either. The narrative of both MoS and BvS put into serious contention of whether Superman is good for the world. Pa Kent promotes a distrustful and selfish viewpoint, to the extent that he would suggest Clark let kids die than be a hero. BvS's Knightmare scene implies that Lois' lifeline is the only thing keeping Superman from going full Murderman/Dictatorman. Batman's entire arc is him tackling Superman's danger to the world. It's confusing how the story seems to want you to consider whether Superman's effect on the world is actually a positive one, only to end with a seemingly conclusive note of "Yeah, he is, totally, symbol of hope and all that". And you can argue that that conclusion retroactively disspells those notions, there is still the fact that you, as a viewer, are forced to consider whether Superman is worth all this trouble when he's being depicted as uncomfortable as a superhero through the majority of the film's run time.

And there is more to consider that I don't even want to get into. The editing, like how Superman kills Zod and then the next scene is a jokey scene with the general of him knocking down the drone is moodwhiplash from something that apparently is deeply traumatic to Superman to him basically having gotten over it. Lois and Superman establishing their love in the ruins of Metropolis. Or how, if you compare Superman's reaction (screaming in horror) to when he kills Zod to his reaction to when the Senate explodes (mehface), he looks like he just doesn't care as much. People can bring up their own examples of the dissonance of what they see vs what the film clearly wants them to see in the rest of the thread.

Anyway, I just wanted to do one last MoS/BvS topic before we get our next superhero whipping boy next month. I probably repeated some stuff that's already been discussed before, but Lindsay's video personally offered me a new understanding of the problems that Snyder's superman has.

In the words of Ma Kent "People hate what they don't understand". I find it disappointing to still see harsh/negative opinion surrounding so many aspects of Snyder's first two DC movies. Snyder is the reason why I became a fan of Supes!
 
Superman is inherently the story of an immigrant who is told over and over "you are not one of us, you do not belong" but refuses to accept that and works to defend the home he has immigrated to, even in the face of relentless rejection.

By framing him as actually being an outsider who doesn't belong amongst the people of his chosen homeland and never will -- to frame that interpretation of him as the correct one that the audience should agree with -- misses the point of his story entirely.

/every thread about "BUT WHAT SNYDER IS SAYING IS-"
 

zeemumu

Member
I get the whole "you're not obligated to save anyone" thing as a way of stopping him from feeling responsible for every bad thing that he doesn't prevent, but that doesn't seem like something you should tell THIS Superman, at least not that bluntly.
 
I appreciate what Snyder was trying to do, but he just failed at it. I keep seeing the Captain America comparison and I don't quite buy it.

Captain America is literally draped in the flag and is a WWII vet who who also literally punched Nazis. He's American and pretty mortal.

Superman is this illegal alien whom as far as the world knows, is literally unkillable through conventional means.


Think about how this country has been reacting to NFL players kneeling during the anthem, travel bans, Puerto Rico's troubles, framing of an entire friendly country as rapists and murderers, etc. Not to mention Fox News getting pissy about the concept of Santa Claus being non-Anglo and literally HATING ON THE FACT THAT SUPERMAN IN THE COMICS SAVES A BROWN IMMIGRANT FROM BEING MURDERED BY BEING SHOT IN THE FACE.

There is absolutely a story to tell about Superman existing in our world. Especially debuting in that world. I promise you, if Superman was portrayed as the Reeves in 2017 in Trump's America, it would look off as well. Snyder just wasn't the person to execute this story.
 

foxuzamaki

Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
The movie already opens with the deaths of a shitton of people. It's literally Batman's whole motivation against Superman.
That was alot more subjective as superman wasent the main cause of it, those were two alien godlike figures fighting and so destruction was inevitable and overall was superman trying to save them which he also just saved a ton of people prior with that gravity machine,and its only afterwards that people started to look at it in a different light while someone like batman instantly went to that place.

This one is when all that stuff was starting to kinda come to a head and so superman was there to prove he is for the people, only for the place to explode, killling so many and yet he is fine, and everybody else died.
 
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