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Magic: the Gathering |OT13| Ixalan - Port to Sideboard

S

SigmasonicX

Member
ZealousD said:
Side Note: So I've been learning the game through Magic Duels and opened my first mythic in a pack. Angelic Destiny. I mean, just looking at the card it looks completely busted. Is it as good as I think it is?
Click to expand...

If an opponent destroys the creature in response to you casting Angelic Destiny, then the creature dies before Angelic Destiny gets on the battlefield, and thus it will go to the graveyard and won't return to your hand. Plus, the usual Aura weakness of being useless if you don't already have a creature.
 
K

kirblar

Member
ZealousD said:
As a Hearthstone player coming into Magic, the "controversy" about Arena not having 90 degree taps is the most hilarious thing to me.

I'm still wrapping my brain around large board setups, keeping track of triggered abilities, and anticipating how my opponent can block.... and the shit that's blowing the minds of people used to all of this is tiny visual things about how a "card" looks when it's tapped.

Side Note: So I've been learning the game through Magic Duels and opened my first mythic in a pack. Angelic Destiny. I mean, just looking at the card it looks completely busted. Is it as good as I think it is?
Click to expand...
Most people who play paper hate non-90 degree taps because it makes the boardstate ambiguous. The pushback's for a legit reason.
 
C

charlequin

Banned
Today's stream decisively and conclusively proves that they made the right call with showing tapped cards, it's dramatically better than all of the (many) alternate examples they showed.
 
A

Ashodin

Member
charlequin said:
Today's stream decisively and conclusively proves that they made the right call with showing tapped cards, it's dramatically better than all of the (many) alternate examples they showed.
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The only negative I can see is that Digital -> Paper transfer players will tap their cards similarly. It's a bad habit that can be undone, but it's still a thing.
 
I

Imperfected

Member
45 degree tapping is only a problem in paper when you're playing with that one degenerate pro who keeps his entire board at a slant.

Sick sonnuvabitch.
 
Z

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
kirblar said:
Most people who play paper hate non-90 degree taps because it makes the boardstate ambiguous. The pushback's for a legit reason.
Click to expand...

I can understand in paper, but MTG Arena is not paper. You aren't playing with cards, you're playing with something that's like a card. What they are using has a square shape, so a 90 degree tap doesn't look unambigously different from no tap, especially on a board state with a large number of creatures. You also can't darken or throw a giant tap symbol on a paper card. Watching the gameplay demonstrations they've shown, it's not ambiguous when a card is tapped. It just strikes me as people just being stubbornly resistant to change. Just like with the logo change.
 
G

GregLombardi

Member
Justin said:
Someone asked and the response was "we really don't want to do that if we don't have to but maybe..."

After seeing all their shots and videos I am of the mind that not having the picture tap and just having it grey out with the tap symbol is the cleanest solution. When you start mixing in non tapped cards with cards tapped 45 degrees it looks like a mess.
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I don't get their thought process. It's strictly better to allow players to view the field in an ideal manner. It's not that much coding to add a check box that allows cards to be displayed differently should a player choose. I guess for streaming it gets a little weird...but other than that there is really no downside to allowing for the optionality.

ZealousD said:
As a Hearthstone player coming into Magic, the "controversy" about Arena not having 90 degree taps is the most hilarious thing to me.

I'm still wrapping my brain around large board setups, keeping track of triggered abilities, and anticipating how my opponent can block.... and the shit that's blowing the minds of people used to all of this is tiny visual things about how a "card" looks when it's tapped.

Side Note: So I've been learning the game through Magic Duels and opened my first mythic in a pack. Angelic Destiny. I mean, just looking at the card it looks completely busted. Is it as good as I think it is?
Click to expand...
This is a helpful perspective. Those of us with tired eyes having played magic for 20+ years would do well to understand that there's a lot more going on for other people to enter the game than how the permanents look. That said, you young whipper snappers should know that we have your best interest in mind, and 5 years down the road you may agree with us. ;)
 
A

A Serious Man

Member
Greying the card out and tapping it slightly works fine. The two most important factors are communicating the current state of the card and being able to tell which card it is at a glance, the current version accomplishes both. I thought a 45 degree tap might work but the example they showed proved that to be a horrible idea.

GregLombardi said:
I don't get their thought process. It's strictly better to allow players to view the field in an ideal manner. It's not that much coding to add a check box that allows cards to be displayed differently should a player choose. I guess for streaming it gets a little weird...but other than that there is really no downside to allowing for the optionality.
Click to expand...

They seem to be really focused on just getting a baseline version of the game up and running. Extra options and flourishes are probably coming later on.
 
C

charlequin

Banned
GregLombardi said:
It's not that much coding to add a check box that allows cards to be displayed differently should a player choose.
Click to expand...

Making a game that implements the full rules engine of Magic is complex enough that I don't need any entirely unnecessary visual options adding even more bugs to it. :p
 
Z

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
Streaming is an important factor. It's clear they are positioning Arena to be something that can capture eyeballs on Twitch. Having the game look different between streams is not something I think they want.

And yeah, the Rules Engine has gotta be a major lift for them. They even mentioned that they had a bunch of cards from the Kaladesh and Amonkhet blocks in the game that they had working at some point, but new builds later broke the cards.
 
S

Santiako

Member
ZealousD said:
I can understand in paper, but MTG Arena is not paper. You aren't playing with cards, you're playing with something that's like a card. What they are using has a square shape, so a 90 degree tap doesn't look unambigously different from no tap, especially on a board state with a large number of creatures. You also can't darken or throw a giant tap symbol on a paper card. Watching the gameplay demonstrations they've shown, it's not ambiguous when a card is tapped. It just strikes me as people just being stubbornly resistant to change. Just like with the logo change.
Click to expand...

Oh, it's functionally fine. It just looks ugly and weird to us because we're so used to actually tapping the cards.
 
Y

y2dvd

Member
Wow this format can be fast. In the last round, each match ended by turn 5. 2 drop into enchantment that gives +2/+2 and flying is such a quick beating.
 
O

OnPoint

Member
If Arena is successful at growing the game, people who come into the game with this product will likely tap at 45 degree angles in paper.

We'll adjust.

It's going to be fine.
 
S

SmokeMaxX

Member
y2dvd said:
Wow this format can be fast. In the last round, each match ended by turn 5. 2 drop into enchantment that gives +2/+2 and flying is such a quick beating.
Click to expand...

It just shifts the "conventional" wisdom. If One With the Wind/Mark of the Vampire becomes something you see in 90% of draft decks, you may see people main-decking Demystify which will make them nearly worthless. When Ixalan just came out, my friend main-decked Crushing Canopy which I thought was sideboard material at best, but he said pretty much every archetype minus RG Dinos has plenty of relevant targets which is definitely true.
 
D

divisionbyzorro

Member
You should be allowed to choose for yourself. It (should be) mindnumbingly simple to add a toggle to do it either way.

Personally, I really liked the original "askew" version from the first preview the best. 90 degrees is awful, and 45 just looks stupid.
 
T

Tunoku

Member
I think they probably want to keep it unified across all players for now so it's more recognizable when watching a stream. Personally, I'd love for the cards to tap to the left, but I know I won't find a lot of support for that. I'm left handed, so I'm used to it.
 
Z

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
OnPoint said:
If Arena is successful at growing the game, people who come into the game with this product will likely tap at 45 degree angles in paper.

We'll adjust.

It's going to be fine.
Click to expand...

People are expressing this as a concern and I don't even think it's necessarily true. They'll see everybody else tapping at 90 and adjust for the most part.
 
T

Tunoku

Member
ZealousD said:
People are expressing this as a concern and I don't even think it's necessarily true. They'll see everybody else tapping at 90 and adjust for the most part.
Click to expand...

At worst, Wizards is gonna enforce 90° tapping at more competitive tournaments which is not a big deal.
 
O

OnPoint

Member
bigkrev said:
I will GLADLY trade 45 degree tapping if it means I can go back to putting my Lands above my spells :(
Click to expand...

You're a monster.

ZealousD said:
People are expressing this as a concern and I don't even think it's necessarily true. They'll see everybody else tapping at 90 and adjust for the most part.
Click to expand...

People are creatures of habit. I'm not saying there's no chance you're right, but I'm not so sure they'll ever even think about it.
 
J

Justin

Member
Was listening to the Stump LSV segment on today's Limited Resources and they did a quiz that had cards that had oracle updates and this one came up that I had never seen the Oracle text for and it is so dumb.

Printed on the card
Camouflage {G}
Card Text:
You may rearrange your attacking creatures and place them face down, revealing which is which only after defense is chosen. If this results in impossible blocks, such as non-flying creatures blocking flying creatures, illegal blockers cannot block this turn.
Click to expand...

Oracle text
Camouflage {G}
Instant
Cast Camouflage only during your declare attackers step.
This turn, instead of declaring blockers, each defending player chooses any number of creatures he or she controls and divides them into a number of piles equal to the number of attacking creatures for whom that player is the defending player. Creatures he or she controls that can block additional creatures may likewise be put into additional piles. Assign each pile to a different one of those attacking creatures at random. Each creature in a pile that can block the creature that pile is assigned to does so. (Piles can be empty.)
Click to expand...
 
T

TheBlackMarvel

Member
Avacyn, Angel of Hope
Liliana, the Last Hope
Selenia, Dark Angel
Hazoret, the Fervent
Anguished Unmaking

Changed because I'll exile anything, given the choice.
 
W

Wichu

Member
Starfield of Nyx
Dovescape
Kheru Spellsnatcher
Wasitora, Nekoru Queen
Nicol Bolas

Familienoberhauptvogel said:
Dack Fayden
Torrential Gearhulk
Nicol Bolas
Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
Nicol Bolas, God-Pharao
Click to expand...

You're cool.

Joe Molotov said:
Goblin Game
Warp World
Planar Chaos
Scrambleverse
Thieves' Auction
Click to expand...

You, not so much :p

EDIT:

Ashodin said:
Sword of Kaldra
Shield of Kaldra
Helm of Kaldra
Lightning Helix
Fiendslayer Paladin
Click to expand...

I'd watch this movie.
 
P

PsionBolt

Member
Goldenglow Moth
Flame Slash
Lightning Axe
Abjure
Human Frailty

These are actually really interesting to read. It doesn't take many cards to tell what kind of Magic player you are.
 
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