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Bethesda and 3 and a half under-performing games in a row

lazydom

Member
In the UK Bethesda games can be picked up at half price or less not much more than a few months after release...
 

Zukkoyaki

Member
I think Dishonored 2 managed to crawl past 2 million (nearly a million on steam spy plus consoles) so I don't think that one is as bad as the others.

But yeah it sucks because all those games are great. Combination of tough competition, niche genres (immersive sim and survival horror) and marketing directed almost exclusively toward the Twitch crowd is hurting them.
 
I can only speak for myself but having played Dishonored and Evil Within, I just didn't have much interest in playing the sequels. And the Prey demo really turned me off. I think Wolfie will sell gang busters though.
 

Gator86

Member
Bethesda are pumping out some of the best games in the industry right now. It blows my mind to see games like those under perform. It's crazy.

Yeah, but three of those games from the OP are in a dead genre with the other being from a genre on life support.

That said, it's depressing to see these bomb. Prey is a top 3 game this year. It's criminally underrated.
 

KingV

Member
can't wait to see how switch owners react to Doom and Wolfenstein.

if it turns out the Nintendo Fanbase will save their asses, that would be quite ironic.

I suspect that both games will do quite well. They almost have no direct competition.

Even though Doom multiplayer is pretty average, there is really nothing else remotely like it on switch.
 

Aters

Member
People ask for single player games that are not "open world bloat". Nobody buys them when they actually come out. People ask why developers don't make single player focus game anymore.

I suspect that both games will do quite well. They almost have no direct competition.

Even though Doom multiplayer is pretty average, there is really nothing else remotely like it on switch.

There's nothing else on Switch because there is no need for it. Do you buy a Nintendo Switch with the intention of playing Doom on it?
 

Marcel

Member
Prey could have done better in marketing had they actually told people that it has a bit of an alternate history element going on but they just focused on SPOOKY ALIENS and SPACESHIPS in what very little marketing they had. Alt-history is a popular genre right now and could have been appealing to fans of things like Man in the High Castle and so on.
 
Yeah, Bethesda aren't good at marketing anything that isn't Skyrim or Fallout. They've essentially lucked out with the Wolfenstein marketing. Hell, even with DOOM they seemed to focus on the game's multiplayer features, and had to rely on word of mouth and those pesky reviewers.

It is a shame, because they're one of the few publishers I can think of bothering with single-player stuff too.
 

Sotha_Sil

Member
It's sad because Prey and Dishonored 2 are in my Top 3 for this generation along with Hitman. Their games have a decent legs though:

-Prey is around 500k on Steam now, probably a few million with consoles.
-Dishonored 2 has a million on steam, probably more than a few million now with consoles.

They are aggressive with sales and they get their numbers eventually. It's not ideal (less money charged per copy), but I don't think the overall picture is doom and gloom. I suspect they're still making money, just not as much as they could/should have. It's hard to tell without looking at the complete financials. The budgets could be a lot smaller with the low-key marketing and that makes it easier to turn a profit. We'd have seen a big change in how they operate by now if they were bleeding money with each release.
 
Dishonored deserves so much better. Those games are nothing short of fantastic.

Prey seems like a more polarizing release. The difficulty, the combat, long load times and backtracking, performance woes pre-patch on the PS4 etc. Haven't really dug into that one myself yet, but managed to pick it up digital at a decent price drop already.

It's a brilliant game. Much better than Dishonored imo.
 

MUnited83

For you.
It's almost like their policy of only sending games to streamers and not reviewers and not doing any other marketing is not working out for them

Prey was fucking brilliant btw and this makes me sad

I don't think their review policy is actually doing any effect at all, but yeah, the lack of marketing has been ridiculous.
Today still you'll find people surprised that TEW2 has already been released without them noticing.
 

eshwaaz

Member
Deserved or not, these will likely be cited as more evidence that people just don't want single player experiences any more.
 

BiggNife

Member
Wolfenstein is the first Bethesda game in like over a year that feels like it has an actual (and very effective) marketing push around it

Everything surrounding marketing for TEW2 has been TERRIBLE. They didn't start actually showing a decent amount of gameplay until like a couple months before release. I visit gaming sites on a daily basis and I had no idea about the really cool semi-open-world structure of the game (which could absolutely be a selling point) until I saw Patrick Klepek stream it last week. The general reaction I saw regarding TEW2's release last week was "wait, that game is out!?!?!?" They fucked it up at every possible level.
 
Bethesda are pumping out some of the best games in the industry right now. It blows my mind to see games like those under perform. It's crazy.

This so much.

I really like their output. One of the best surprises this generation and previously for a bit too.
 

Nibel

Member
Wolfenstein marketing is literally perfect right now. Maybe they are turning it around?

I don't count Wolfenstein 2 - that thing will sell off the fact it's about killing Nazis in 2017 alone (also helps that the first one was fantastic)

Also, they seem to do a lot more with Wolf 2 than with any of the games mentioned in the OP. TEW2 had 0 buzz up until release and now it completely backfired
 
I continue to buy all their games, I thoroughly enjoyed Dishonoured 2 and am also very much into Prey at the moment. Bethesda is one of my favorite publishers, I hope they can sustain future titles in these franchises.
 
It's not just marketing, though that is indeed a problem that is making things worse.

Thing is the market is just moving away from linear single player only 10-20 hour long games. Unless everything is executed perfectly it's hard to match sales those types of games used to get.

Bethesda will have to change strategy and start developing different types of games (online multiplayer, open world, co-op, etc.)
 
Yeah, but three of those games from the OP are in a dead genre with the other being from a genre on life support.

That said, it's depressing to see these bomb. Prey is a top 3 game this year. It's criminally underrated.

But they already successfully launched Dishonored once. The success of that title in concert with Human Revolution is one of the reasons it seemed like the genre wasn't dead for a time.

Basically, they successfully launch a brand new IP from a little known developer, with a unique art style well outside of mainstream aesthetics, with an emphasis on player choice over the cinematic handholding that was all the range of that time. That's incredible. *That* should have been the hard part, not following up that success. Especially when the sequel is as good as Dishonored 2 turned out to be.
 

Marcel

Member
Here is Arkane's future in case yall forgot. From a Nirolak thread in July.

Online Game Engineer
Division: Arkane Studios Texas | Department: Programming | Location: Austin , TX, US

Arkane Studios is looking for an Online Game Engineer to join our team in developing AAA games for PC and consoles. The successful candidate will have expert knowledge of and experience in the design, implementation and continuing support of large scale client/server applications using primarily C++. Extensive experience developing online games is required. The ideal candidate will be passionate about technology, have excellent problem solving skills and a desire to work in a creative and collaborative environment.

Responsibilities
· Works with other engineers to architect and refine game systems and online features related to online games (client-server networking optimization, integration with backend services, data authority management, game persistence, etc...)
· Works with designers, artists and other personnel involved in the development of products as required
· Test and refine code and systems throughout the development cycle of the project
· Diagnose and fix live service issues

Requirements
· Bachelor's degree in Computer Science, or equivalent experience
· Excellent C++ knowledge
· 5+ years professional software development experience writing client-server game applications
· At least one AAA title shipped as a contributing online engineer
· Experience with multithreaded programming
· Expertise with network programming and optimization
· Excellent analytical and mathematical skills
· Strong interpersonal skills and problem solving ability
· Writes clear, maintainable, portable code
· Accurately estimates his/her schedules and delivers high quality work products to that schedule
· Must be a self-motivated and energetic team player with a very strong work ethic and cooperative attitude

Desired Skills
· A passion for gaming and a working knowledge of online products
· Experience developing for an online environment
· Experience with testing frameworks
· Experience optimizing code for memory and CPU utilization
· Experience in a ”Live" environment (ongoing support of a product after launch)

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=242703496&postcount=1
 

BeeDog

Member
I love all the games mentioned there. Dishonored 2 is utterly amazing and so is Prey, and Death of The Outsider and The Evil Within 2 are fucking great too. Say what you want about Bethesda's own games, but they publish brilliant games, sad to hear about the games underperforming.
 

Dot-N-Run

Member
I feel like Skyrim (which originally released 6 years ago) is still getting more marketing today than these other games.
 

RoboPlato

I'd be in the dick
I bought all of those day 1 because I wanted to support those genres and those games getting made. Sad that others didn’t feel the same.
 
Bethesda have been knocking it out of the park when it comes to meaty single player AAA games and it sucks to see them not selling well. Doom, Prey, Dishonored 2 / Death of the Outsider, and now Evil Within 2 are all great. If you don't support games like this then don't be surprised when you see more games with tacked on multiplayer, microtransactions and loot crates.
 

Mr. Tibbs

Member
Their games have a decent legs though:

-Prey is around 500k on Steam now, probably a few million with consoles.

I mean, you pulled that figure from your ass, but you can pretend the console versions of Prey sold 2.5 million copies without charting on the NPD after May if you want.
 

Sulik2

Member
Dishonored 2 and Prey were straight bombs and likely killed their franchises. And honestly Doom and The New Order didn't actually sell that great compared to their critical praise. EW2 bombing is a given. As good as they games are, it makes no sense for Bethesda to keep dumping money into single player game production if people aren't going to buy them.
 

Gleethor

Member
can't wait to see how switch owners react to Doom and Wolfenstein.

if it turns out the Nintendo Fanbase will save their asses, that would be quite ironic.
Skyrim should do fine, Doom I worry is being sent to die and is too technically compromised for many people to double dip, but we’ll see.
 

Brandon F

Well congratulations! You got yourself caught!
I feel like I see TEW2 advertised online all the time lately. Before any youtube video, websites filled with entire animated page banners, etc...

It may not have traditional marketing like billboards(maybe?) but I wouldn't say they did nothing. TEW2 is kind of everywhere I click at least.

Not that it matters given the sales plummet, but I haven't felt like its devoid of marketing muscle, at least compared to Dishonored and Prey.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
They're pulling advertising from most locations because they don't have faith in the products. They feel the expanded market that doesn't know what the games are or when the games are releasing wouldn't actually want the products.

How many people on here posting things like "I only know it's out because of this thread!" are actually running out and buying these games?

It's not like Bethesda isn't aware how to market a game. Fallout 4 shipped out 12 million copies on day one, and they spent the entirety of last generation launching surprise outperform hits.
 
I'm excited as hell for Wolfenstein II. I also haven't finished the first one (or DOOM) despite having them for a year and loving everything I've played of them, and I've got a backlog of single player games from up to a year ago to play with Mario Odyssey coming out.

Games like Prey and Evil Within are not going to cut it at $60 for most people when they'll be $40 within weeks and $20-30 next time you pull yourself away from your multiplayer games with constant updates.
 

Marcel

Member
Dishonored 2 and Prey were straight bombs and likely killed their franchises. And honestly Doom and The New Order didn't actually sell that great compared to their critical praise. EW2 bombing is a given. As good as they games are, it makes no sense for Bethesda to keep dumping money into single player game production if people aren't going to buy them.

It's like a forum's dislike of monetization/games as a service isn't representative of the mass market's feeling or something. Really makes you think.
 
Dishonored 2 and Prey were straight bombs and likely killed their franchises. And honestly Doom and The New Order didn't actually sell that great compared to their critical praise. EW2 bombing is a given. As good as they games are, it makes no sense for Bethesda to keep dumping money into single player game production if people aren't going to buy them.

Well apparently The New Order did sell enough that it made sense to dump money into a new singleplayer sequel to it?
 

ryan299

Member
I don't think Wolfenstein 2 is going to be as big as some think. Way too many big games around it that people are going to go for over it. Hopefully it's good and has legs.
 

Shredderi

Member
Dishonored 2 and Prey were straight bombs and likely killed their franchises. And honestly Doom and The New Order didn't actually sell that great compared to their critical praise. EW2 bombing is a given. As good as they games are, it makes no sense for Bethesda to keep dumping money into single player game production if people aren't going to buy them.

People buy those single player games. They just buy the ones from pubs that properly market the games. It's not like all single player games have suffered the same fate, no. Bethesda is the one who is having a chronic problem with this.
 

Zushin

Member
Yeah, Bethesda aren't good at marketing anything that isn't Skyrim or Fallout. They've essentially lucked out with the Wolfenstein marketing. Hell, even with DOOM they seemed to focus on the game's multiplayer features, and had to rely on word of mouth and those pesky reviewers.

It is a shame, because they're one of the few publishers I can think of bothering with single-player stuff too.

To the bold, naaaah. Wolfenstein TNO had fantastic marketing also. So they are capable when they try.
 

Blobbers

Member
they probably realized all those games are relics of an old era and let them go out with a whimper. It's all about gaas and online focus from now on. I can't wait to see what Bethesda GS's new IP ends up looking like, design wise
 

BiggNife

Member
They're pulling advertising from most locations because they don't have faith in the products. They feel the expanded market that doesn't know what the game are or when the games are releasing wouldn't actually want the products.

It's not like Bethesda isn't aware how to market a game. Fallout 4 shipped out 12 million copies on day one, and they spent the entirety of last generation launching surprise outperform hits.

Feels like a bit of self-fufilling prophecy. You're not going to know if a game ends up being a surprise hit or not if you don't give it a chance.

TEW2 is getting positive reviews and is a horror game being released in October. Sending it to die seems like a weird move.
 

JoeBoy101

Member
Should have implemented lootboxes in all of them.

Not too late for Wolf!

tumblr_nx9x84ZYJ41shob51o1_400.gif


OT: Honestly, I think The Elder Scrolls series and Fallout has done something weird, they play the long game. They don't blow their metaphorical wad early and position more for games to have legs. I do think some of these games would have seriously benefited from a reduced price tag, but I don't think Bethesda is in any kind of trouble that this suggests.
 

EhoaVash

Member
Well didn't they win like almost a billion dollar from their lawsuit with Facebook over Oculus this year? Probably more money from that than the combined revenue of all the games they released lol.

It's weird usually they release like 1 game a year, but this year they have like 5 titles if you include the switch.

I'm sure next year either they release next elder scrolls or release nothing at all.
 
I don't think Wolfenstein 2 is going to be as big as some think. Way too many big games around it that people are going to go for over it. Hopefully it's good and has legs.

I actually feel somewhat the same.

I think it's going to do well don't get me wrong and probably the best out of Bethesda recent output.

Still that said I'm notnexpectinf some sort of giant performance. It's still at the end of the day a linear single player game with no online and those don't blow up the charts anymore.

It will be successful I think but not massively so
 

Shredderi

Member
Feels like a bit of self-fufilling prophecy. You're not going to know if a game ends up being a surprise hit or not if you don't give it a chance.

TEW2 is getting positive reviews and is a horror game being released in October. Sending it to die seems like a weird move.

This.
 

Surfside

Banned
It's a shame really. And in Prey's case, i doubt better marketing would have helped a lot.
Immersive Sims don't seem to be very popular.
 

Marcel

Member
they probably realized all those games are relics of an old era and let them go out with a whimper. It's all about gaas and online focus from now on. I can't wait to see what Bethesda GS's new IP ends up looking like, design wise

I'm gonna guess it will look something like this

hthPuLd.jpg
 
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