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[RoboPlato]

There's games that use it but its impact is debatable. Apparently its Vega architecture that Cerny-san thought important enough to incorporate in the PS4 Pro, but Microsoft didn't deem important enough to include in X1X.

It's a thing and it has uses, but I'm not sure it's the secret sauce some claim it to be.

It does make a difference in some games. Mantis Burn Racing devs talked about how it was an important part of getting that game to native 4k on the Pro. However, that was a relatively simple game. It does have some good efficiency gains in some uses but it's not always applicable. Different games, different engines, and different visual goals will all change how relevant it is. I agree it's nothing that could be considered a secret sauce but it's a nice efficiency customization to include.

I think the bigger impact of it being included in the Pro's GPU will be more documentation and experience with it before next gen rolls around and it becomes a more commonly used feature.

 

[belvedere]

It does make a difference in some games. Mantis Burn Racing devs talked about how it was an important part of getting that game to native 4k on the Pro. However, that was a relatively simple game. It does have some good efficiency gains in some uses but it's not always applicable. Different games, different engines, and different visual goals will all change how relevant it is. I agree it's nothing that could be considered a secret sauce but it's a nice efficiency customization to include.

I think the bigger impact of it being included in the Pro's GPU will be more documentation and experience with it before next gen rolls around and it becomes a more commonly used feature.

Absolutely, I'm not minimizing its impact, just saying it's a bit early to tell. Like others have said Wolfenstein II (and at least one other upcoming title) will utilize it and I'm curious to see the those implementations.

 

[dr_rus]

That's from the Siege mode which is the most demanding mode in the game, even my i7 6700K/1080 dropped frames like crazy at 1400P in that mode compared to the rest of the game where it never goes below 55. It's most likely a heavy strain on the CPU due to the sheer number of enemies, captains/nemesis and allies you can have in that mode. And it's probably one of the main reason why the game's 30FPS.

I doubt the transparencies (especially one that isn't even covering a quarter of the screen) would be the issue there for a machine like One X despite the high resolution. I don't think the game is GPU heavy in any sense (game has denser alpha than that in normal open world and my PC runs that better than siege mode).

I'm about 99% sure that this slowdown is a GPU issue. If it would be a CPU issue it wouldn't be a slowdown, the game would just constantly run at 23 fps in this area. ACU is a good example of a CPU limited game on modern consoles - it runs (or did they fix it?) constantly below 30 all the time.

People are attributing way too much to CPU in console games. I'm still positively sure that Jaguars are quite enough for console gaming and what next gen needs are faster and more capable GPUs. Ryzen would be an overkill, unless they'll go with 4C which seems like a bad idea if they want to keep BC.

Consider this for a second, high textures uses ~3GB of VRAM, or so, while ultra uses ~9GB. That's a difference of around 6GB and One X is able to support that + higher resolution framebuffer despite only having 4GB of extra RAM over base console. So there is something else going on here.

The high res textures in total come up to 10GB, at any given time it's probably not showing even half of that. While the meter in the option says it's using 8.5-9GB of VRAM on PC you can run it just fine with lower VRAM because it's probably just using it to cache as much textures data as it can so that it doesn't have to stream/load them. Otherwise my GTX 1080 would have started to have issues seeing how it only has 8GB of VRAM.

How do you know how much RAM textures consume? This number is different depending on where an in-game viewport is and "4K textures" doesn't mean that all textures in such pack are 4x larger. It's impossible to know how much more RAM 4K textures consume on XBX compared to XBO, even debugging PC version would only get you some circumstantial data. Then you have to remember that XBO's RAM is ass slow which also limits the amount of data you can fetch for each frame from it which in turn may limit the possible texture resolution so XBO comparison is not the best here either.

What clear is that +4GBs allow them to use "4K" textures on XBX which in turn means that such textures won't be available on the Pro with its 8GBs. Would it be possible to "fix" some of the more blurry textures on the Pro with a higher resolution ones? Probably yes. Will they bother? Doubtful.

 

[onQ123]

you was definitely trying to spread fud. just said it in a certain way to cover you butt. but you knew what you was doing.

No I wasn't I was telling people that if it was Vega the peak TF number would be the fp16 number.

Trust me I'm way smarter than y'all think I am

If Scorpio is Vega I'm more than likely right about what I said before that pissed everyone off so you might want to hope for Polaris or Fiji

If Scorpio is Vega it's peak throughput is the FP16 number unless all the Vega chips don't feature double rate fp16 so I would be wary of that 6TF information without context.

That's all I'm saying

Would you rather have Polaris 6TF peak performance or Vega 6TF peak performance?

 

[EtherMagic]

People can't deny it, Far Cry 5 and Wolfenstein 2 will be using it.

I think what people are saying is that the fp16 thing was brought up by someone making it sound as if that alone will close the gap between One X and Pro, which is not gonna happen. There is no magical shortcut thats gonna do anything to help the Pro match the specs of the One X. It's simply wishful thinking and a mute argument from that stand point.

 

[onQ123]

I think what people are saying is that the fp16 thing was brought up by someone making it sound as if that alone will close the gap between One X and Pro, which is not gonna happen. There is no magical shortcut thats gonna do anything to help the Pro match the specs of the One X. It's simply wishful thinking and a mute argument from that stand point.

I was the one that started talking about fp16 & it was before we knew the specs of PS4 Pro or Xbox One X. I didn't talk about it to make PS4 Pro seem more powerful than it is.

 

[Orca]

People can't deny it, Far Cry 5 and Wolfenstein 2 will be using it.

And if it doesn't, in fact, bridge the power gap...I'm sure nobody will bring it up again? lol

 

[EtherMagic]

I was the one that started talking about fp16 & it was before we knew the specs of PS4 Pro or Xbox One X. I didn't talk about it to make PS4 Pro seem more powerful than it is.

Well ok, that's kind of how i was taking this battle of words above me. lol Sorry man

If i may ask, what was your point for bringing it up then?

 

[Hilbert]

Why the fuck is this thread 11 pages?

Because gamers caring about graphics is a myth.

 

[Synth]

Well ok, that's kind of how i was taking this battle of words above me. lol Sorry man

If i may ask, what was your point for bringing it up then?

Don't apologise. He was full of shit, and has always refers to his previous posts by conveniently leaving out the post(s) that kicked it all off, where he very clearly attempted to suggest XB1X could be a 3TF console with 6TF fp16, as opposed to PS4P being 4.2TF with 8.4TF fp16.

How we know Microsoft isn't being shady & using a GPU that's capable of half-precision floating points & using the half-precision numbers?

They could be doing the same thing as Sony but using a Polaris GPU with 24 CUs clocked to 1000Mhz that would be 3tflops full-precision & 6tflops half-precision.

also using 64MB of embedded ram by having double the chips & a higher clock speed will also get the bandwidth close to 320GB/s if they are pulling the same stunt they did with the Xbox One by adding the embedded ram speed with the main memory speed.

I'm woke!


PS4 Neo is 8.4tflops half-precision nice try Microsoft you almost got me

Until I see real Xbox Scorpio specs I'm forced to believe that they did exactly what I think they did..

Remember Microsoft never mentioned Xbox One's 1.3Tflops but now they announce Xbox Scorpio as a 6tflop console.

I'm guessing the APU will also need to have embedded ram for backwards compatibility with Xbox One so what are the chances of them fitting a bigger GPU than what is in the PS4 Neo in a APU with embedded ram?

The fact that Polaris can do half-precision computation gave them the chance to use the 6tflop line & the fact that Neo wasn't announced gave them the chance to say it's the most powerful console ever made.

Honestly sick of seeing him attempt to rewrite history, as though his angle wasn't super fucking clear.

 

[Klocker]

Holy shit this thread lol


Yea 6TF's, higher bandwidth and 4GB more RAM will do that for you, no surprise

Spoiler

but yet people are surprised

 

[onQ123]

Well ok, that's kind of how i was taking this battle of words above me. lol Sorry man

If i may ask, what was your point for bringing it up then?

Because I kinda knew that consoles & bigger GPUs would start to use double rate fp16 like the mobile GPUs just like I knew that PS4 Pro would use smarter rendering techniques to reach 4K.

To me it just made sense.

 

[EtherMagic]

And if it doesn't, in fact, bridge the power gap...I'm sure nobody will bring it up again? lol

lol


What i dont get, is why the heck would Sony release such a weak midgrade console??? Why even put the effort in? I mean, from what we have seen thus far, there is bigger leap from Pro to X then there is from PS4 to Pro, and that's saying alot! MS did it right, they gave us just enough power to come close to or atleast compete with a high end PC, and also enough power to hold us over until the next generation of consoles drop.

 

[onQ123]

Don't apologise. He was full of shit, and has always refers to his previous posts by conveniently leaving out the post(s) that kicked it all off, where he very clearly attempted to suggest XB1X could be a 3TF console with 6TF fp16, as opposed to PS4P being 4.2TF with 8.4TF fp16.





Honestly sick of seeing him attempt to rewrite history, as though his angle wasn't super fucking clear.

And I stick by what I said I wasn't going to just take the number without context when I knew that up coming GPUs would be using double rate fp16.


Edit: And this is my post about PS4 Pro before we got the real specs

I don't think this console is going to brute force it's way to 4K I think it's going to be by smart design & the main GPU will still be the same while there is hardware for pushing it to render at 4K.

my thought is that it will be a smaller GPU that's made for 4K rendering & maybe use half precision floating point & other things for higher performance while not being as big & power hungry as the main GPU.

Was I down playing the PS4 Pro?

 

[Mr. PlayStation]

I am surprised they couldn't make this game to run at 60fps on Xbox One X, guess the CPU still is a limiting factor?

 

[Synth]

And I stick by what I said I wasn't going to just take the number without context when I knew that up coming GPUs would be using double rate fp16.

Then in the future, don't claim you didn't say 3TF, don't claim you weren't suggesting PS4P launching a year earlier would be more powerful than XB1X a year later, and don't act like people were simply opposing the mere idea of fp16 being supported. They were opposing the idea that Sony's 4.2TF was a fp32 number, whilst MS' 6TF was a fp16 number. People said that suggestion was ridiculous, because it was.

 

[rokkerkory]

I am surprised they couldn't make this game to run at 60fps on Xbox One X, guess the CPU still is a limiting factor?

Why would you be surprised? When was it supposed to be 60fps with jaguar cpu? Lol

 

[Obliterator]

I gotta be honest that comparison is damn impressive. The One X is outshining the Pro here by a considerable and very noticeable margin.

Not that it should be shocking considering the higher price point and more powerful hardware, but that's a noticeable enough difference I think most gamers could easily pick up on it. Not just a minor boost.

That 12GB of RAM is putting in serious work. Everyone has been talking about the GPU, and while that's nice as well, that RAM is doing a world of difference on texture quality

 

[jaypah]

Then in the future, don't claim you didn't say 3TF, don't claim you weren't suggesting PS4P launching a year earlier would be more powerful than XB1X a year later, and don't act like people were simply opposing the mere idea of fp16 being supported. They were opposing the idea that Sony's 4.2TF was a fp32 number, whilst MS' 6TF was a fp16 number. People said that suggestion was ridiculous, because it was.

Those posts don't line up with, "Just being cautious bro!". He was "woke" and was "forced to believe" that MS was using fp16 numbers. They almost had him too. "PS4 Neo is 8.4tflops half-precision nice try Microsoft you almost got me". SMH.

Dude is intelligent and pretty well-versed so it sucks that he throws it all away for fanboy bullshit and shock posts.

 

[Babaganoush]

Why would you be surprised? When was it supposed to be 60fps with jaguar cpu? Lol

If the ps4 pro pushed 60fps then MAYBE we could have 60 on the xbonex.

 

[Synth]

Those posts don't line up with, "Just being cautious bro!". He was "woke" and was "forced to believe" that MS was using fp16 numbers. They almost had him too. "PS4 Neo is 8.4tflops half-precision nice try Microsoft you almost got me". SMH.

Dude is intelligent and pretty well-versed so it sucks that he throws it all away for fanboy bullshit and shock posts.

Agree with the bolded. I mean, credit where it's due, he did call fp16 ahead of time But take your wins and your losses. Don't try to retroactively try to count them all as wins... especially when you were arguing for something you should really know better than to be suggesting as a reality.

 

[anothertech]

That's a big ass difference.

I don’t see it.

Spoiler

/s

 

[LukasTaves]

Whats wow about that? Seems logical to me.

That it is better yeah, but how much better should be surprising when the consensus around here was that the difference would be in resolution only, like xbone to ps4, but actually smaller due to diminishing returns.

And as turns out the difference is bigger than it was on xbone to ps4 in resolution alone, but it's sporting higher settings on top of that. And this is not the only game where the difference is bigger than expected.

 

[onQ123]

Then in the future, don't claim you didn't say 3TF, don't claim you weren't suggesting PS4P launching a year earlier would be more powerful than XB1X a year later, and don't act like people were simply opposing the mere idea of fp16 being supported. They were opposing the idea that Sony's 4.2TF was a fp32 number, whilst MS' 6TF was a fp16 number. People said that suggestion was ridiculous, because it was.

I didn't say Scorpio was going to be 3TF the quote is right there in your face I said how we know that they didn't use a GPU capable of fp16 & gave us the fp16 number. the point was that we only had a number at the time without context.

 

[tuna_love]

which one of you jerks got thelastword banned?

 

[onQ123]

Those posts don't line up with, "Just being cautious bro!". He was "woke" and was "forced to believe" that MS was using fp16 numbers. They almost had him too. "PS4 Neo is 8.4tflops half-precision nice try Microsoft you almost got me". SMH.

Dude is intelligent and pretty well-versed so it sucks that he throws it all away for fanboy bullshit and shock posts.

The woke suff was a joke but my point was that we couldn't just take the numbers without context.

 

[Jaguar Victory]

which one of you jerks got thelastword banned?

I thought it was eerily quiet.

 

[Obliterator]

That it is better yeah, but how much better should be surprising when the consensus around here was that the difference would be in resolution only, like xbone to ps4, but actually smaller due to diminishing returns.

And as turns out the difference is bigger than it was on xbone to ps4 in resolution alone, but it's sporting higher settings on top of that. And this is not the only game where the difference is bigger than expected.

The RAM is going to play a major factor that people didn't weight enough. The GPU is doing the brunt of the work on that resolution difference but the RAM is gonna do a ton in terms of texture quality differences. 4 additional GB is not joke whatsoever

 

[EtherMagic]

Why would you be surprised? When was it supposed to be 60fps with jaguar cpu? Lol

lol You took the words right out my mouth.


I'd forget about better frame rate this gen, maybe with some games that give the option to switch from 4K to 1080p. But definatly not gonna happen at 60fps when adding in all the assets that One X is out to achieve.

 

[c0de]

I didn't say Scorpio was going to be 3TF the quote is right there in your face I said how we know that they didn't use a GPU capable of fp16 & gave us the fp16 number. the point was that we only had a number at the time without context.

And it was completely unrealistic to even think that a console releases one year later will be inferior to the pro. Now you answer with the ps3, please, and we have the same discussion again.

 

[Babaganoush]

I didn't say Scorpio was going to be 3TF the quote is right there in your face I said how we know that they didn't use a GPU capable of fp16 & gave us the fp16 number. the point was that we only had a number at the time without context.

why does does this game look shittier on the ps4 pro?

 

[KageMaru]

No I wasn't I was telling people that if it was Vega the peak TF number would be the fp16 number.

Trust me I'm way smarter than y'all think I am

The fact that you even threw out the possibility that Scorpio could possibly be 6TF with FP16 proves you're not smarter than we think you are. It was a stupid comment then and it's especially stupid now. That was never a possibility for a number of reasons.

This is one of those times you should step back instead of doubling down on a silly past comment.

And if it doesn't, in fact, bridge the power gap...I'm sure nobody will bring it up again? lol

Developers have already said it won't close the gap but it was never meant to. This is one of those things where the truth is likely in the middle. It's certainly not a useless feature but it's not significant enough to bridge any gap.

Those posts don't line up with, "Just being cautious bro!". He was "woke" and was "forced to believe" that MS was using fp16 numbers. They almost had him too. "PS4 Neo is 8.4tflops half-precision nice try Microsoft you almost got me". SMH.

Dude is intelligent and pretty well-versed so it sucks that he throws it all away for fanboy bullshit and shock posts.

He's knowledgeable enough to know things but sometimes throws shit out there to either provoke others or make himself appear smarter than others. Neither is really necessary or constructive towards a conversation.

 

[Jaguar Victory]

Why on earth are folks still arguing with onQ about FP16? This should have it's own thread and be on like OT 6 by now.

On topic - I'm excited about high res textures. I will prob play most of these games in "enhanced mode".

 

[rashbeep]

which one of you jerks got thelastword banned?

lol it actually happened

 

[RoboPlato]

Rewatched this vid and looked at some other videos and screens of the game. Do we have any insight into why the XBO/PS4/Pro textures are so bad? Some surfaces look like a streaming issue where the proper texture didn't load but it never pops in. I get why the Xbox One X and PC can improve on the textures but it seems like the other platforms could be somewhere in between where they are now and the highest res assets.

 

[KageMaru]

which one of you jerks got thelastword banned?

What?! Why did it happen?! He was innocent entertainment. Oddly he was more tame than usual in this thread.

 

[The Dear Leader]

The lower resolution textures on the PlayStation™ 4 Pro version are a brilliant design choice that echoes the troubled and muddy environment of the game, I wouldn't want those start, sterile textures on the xbox version, they just don't have the soul and feel of the game that Monolith is trying to showcase, the framerate being more spotty also is a incredible nod to Talion's mental state through out the game, blurry and out of focus, absolute stellar meta commentary!

 

[tuna_love]

What?! Why did it happen?! He was innocent entertainment. Oddly he was more tame than usual in this thread.

flew too close to the sun

 

[immortald3ath]

which one of you jerks got thelastword banned?

Lol he got banned? I'm honestly surprised it took this long. But I feel bad for him at the same time...da fuck is he gonna do with his life now?

 

[EtherMagic]

Rewatched this vid and looked at some other videos and screens of the game. Do we have any insight into why the XBO/PS4/Pro textures are so bad? Some surfaces look like a streaming issue where the proper texture didn't load but it never pops in. I get why the Xbox One X and PC can improve on the textures but it seems like the other platforms could be somewhere in between where they are now and the highest res assets.

It's the memory man. Them 4 extra GB of GDDR5 in the One X are showing what they are made of, that's it. This is where Sony messed up. By Sony just upping the TF's and adding a tiny bit higher clock speed (but keeping the same 8gb GDDR5 memory as reg PS4), all this does is give slightly better textures and bump the res. With more memory you have more to room to store things, like more detailed, better textures. And with the One X extra 2 TF's, they can then take these new and improved textures and show us what they got by bumping up the resolution to 4K, or close to it atleast.

 

[RoboPlato]

It's the memory man. Them 4 extra GB of GDDR5 in the One X are showing what they are made of, that's it. This is where Sony messed up. By Sony just upping the TF's and adding a tiny bit higher clock speed, all this does is give slightly better textures and bump the res. With more memory you have more to room to store things, like more detailed, better textures. And with the One X extra 2 TF's, they can then take these new and improved textures and show us what they are made of by bumping up the resolution to 4K, or close to it atleast.

I get why there's a big improvement, I just am curious as to why a number of places have textures that look like this. We've seen all those other platforms do better in regards to textures in games that are more demanding on the GPU.

 

[vkbest]

I don’t think Xbox One x have pretty good textures, it’s the PS4 Pro have horrible textures even for 1080p. The first game had better textures.

Anyway, curious DF cried when Skyrim on Pro drops 2 FPS and last of us 4 frames, but they are not concerned about horrible framerate this game have on X when plenty characters on screen

 

[jaypah]

which one of you jerks got thelastword banned?

Damn, I thought he had reached invincible status. He'll be back, sturdier than ever.

The woke suff was a joke but my point was that we couldn't just take the numbers without context.

In isolation I could believe that. But the rest of your posts frame a clear narrative. Honestly, it's offensive that you throw bricks and then act like the victim so often as if the rest of use are stupid or have zero memory. Nothing against you by the way. I actually enjoy some of your posts. Then you jump out the window with some dumb shit and I question if 2 people are running the account.

I don't think Xbox One x have pretty good textures, it's the PS4 Pro have horrible textures even for 1080p. The first game had better textures.

Anyway, curious DF cried when Skyrim on Pro drops 2 FPS and last of us 4 frames, but they are not concerned about horrible framerate this game have on X when plenty characters on screen

They brought up the frame drops, not sure what you want. Were the Skyrim and LoU pieces done with final code or unfinished works in progress?

 

[statham]

The woke suff was a joke but my point was that we couldn't just take the numbers without context.

Why not? Its what every peep was using, you made it complicated.

 

[KageMaru]

I don’t think Xbox One x have pretty good textures, it’s the PS4 Pro have horrible textures even for 1080p. The first game had better textures.

Anyway, curious DF cried when Skyrim on Pro drops 2 FPS and last of us 4 frames, but they are not concerned about horrible framerate this game have on X when plenty characters on screen

Those games were done when those concerns were raised. I'm sure they will react the same to final code that performs worse.

 

[Synth]

I didn't say Scorpio was going to be 3TF the quote is right there in your face I said how we know that they didn't use a GPU capable of fp16 & gave us the fp16 number. the point was that we only had a number at the time without context.

Yes the quote is right there, with your suggestion of 3TF clearly underlined for emphasis. No, you didn't say it would be 3TF... you said it could be, and followed that up by saying without the full specs, you're forced to believe it will be.

You didn't merely state that you couldn't be sure or take the numbers at face value either way. You clearly leaned on 3TF fp32/6TF fp16 being the likely scenario... and the quotes I put up detail that without any of the ambiguity that you always refer back to the discussion as having.

It was a dumb prediction, which was wrong as hell... and everyone called it being wrong for obvious reasons. Not because they were just too simple to understand your Scorpio releasing a year later massively underpowered wisdom.

 

[EtherMagic]

I get why there's a big improvement, I just am curious as to why a number of places have textures that look like this. We've seen all those other platforms do better in regards to textures in games that are more demanding on the GPU.

Yea, that wall looks like N64 textures, where they would use like 10 polys per every square foot, and just smear em over to blend them all in with over-used anti aliasing! lol. I said almost this same thing a few weeks back and got laughed at, but it's TRUE!


With a game like this there is so much going on that puts a lot of stress on the GPU and CPU that there is just not enough room to make everything look as pretty as you may like, atleast on current consoles.

Like i said, it's the extra memory in the One X allowing for overall more detail.

 

[vkbest]

Those games were done when those concerns were raised. I'm sure they will react the same to final code that performs worse.

What about ace combat 4? They did too from a beta 1 year before of release date

Sorry but DF is biased. I have to remember DF said that 720p games on Xbox One was better than 1080p games because magical scaler on the beginning this generation ?

 

[Synth]

What about ace combat 4? They did too from a beta 1 year before of release date

Sorry but DF is biased. I have to remember DF said that 720p games on Xbox One was better than 1080p games because magical scaler on the beginning this generation ?

I don't remember this at all. Care to link the article?

 

[onQ123]

why does does this game look shittier on the ps4 pro?

Because Xbox One X is a more powerful console with more RAM coming out a year later & $100 higher price.